METRIC - Theme for Retina | HiDPI display monitor

[jrengmusic]

Originally Posted by sightlessness

Downloaded last version of Reaper, and even tried the first version you released (WIP) and it all behaves the same.

The thing is, your problem is something that i can’t reproduce. I don’t have a Windows machine with native 4K resolution. How could i create a solution to a problem that i don’t encounter?

The smallest monitor which works best with this theme is my 2015 15.4” Retina MacBookPro with 2880 x 1800 px native resolution. Technically smaller than native 4K screen, and there isn’t any a single problem.

Perhaps try this
windows-scaling-issues-for-high-dpi-devices

I don’t want to sound like a douche, but furthermore I don’t know how to help you.

[jrengmusic]

Originally Posted by talustalus

Thank you. Can I download this script?
(I am new and have not got any scripts yet, just browsed like 100 themes until I saw yours and was like "yeah!")

Download and install the latest SWS Extension. You might find appropriate actions to do such things.

[talustalus]

Originally Posted by jrengmusic

Download and install the latest SWS Extension. You might find appropriate actions to do such things.

I do have SWS extension already. But I'm not sure how to find your specific script that you mentioned. No idea in fact. But once I do know, I will be good to go.

[jrengmusic]

Originally Posted by talustalus

I do have SWS extension already. But I'm not sure how to find your specific script that you mentioned. No idea in fact. But once I do know, I will be good to go.

Find this on Action list

SWS: Make folder from selected tracks

[sightlessness]

TL;DR Maybe I just need a line of code to FORCE those areas I mention
below the VU meters? I know you got inspiriation from the Imperial theme
and that one works as intended (3 zones I mention below VU meters which
are forced below the VU meters).

I totally understand, believe me I used to code stuff in Flash,
do design in Photoshop, and I know what happens behind the curtains.

If you found the time, I think I'd just need suggestions
for the rtconfig and include/change a line of code where the zones:
Track FX inserts, Track sends, Track FX parameters are FORCED below
the VU meters, because that's the way the Imperial theme behaves,
it has the VU at the top by default (I think forced because when you
resize the MPC those VU meters are dead set at the top), whereas the 3
zones I mention are below always no matter what, and if you go beyond
a certain point resizing down the MPC (mixer) these 3 areas invade certain
areas below to a degree. And the Imperial that way works perfect (but no 4k
version, yet).

[White Tie]

I believe I could be of assistance here, if the OP has any questions I would be more than happy to provide whatever answers I have.

[jrengmusic]

Originally Posted by White Tie

I believe I could be of assistance here, if the OP has any questions I would be more than happy to provide whatever answers I have.

My main problem is, I don't have a Windows machine to test. So i couldn't debug the problem in macOS.

What might cause the layouts behave differently on Windows display vs macOS? In this case the track label, and the extmixer layout. Maybe the logic i wrote in WALTER doesn't work on Windows display monitor?

Would you mind have a look at METRIC rtconfig? Perhaps there are line of codes that i could optimize to work on both OS.

Thanks WT.

[sightlessness]

Please, I totally understand your position, and don't make this issue
yours. I just hope you could find the time trying to help me fix this issue.
I know it's not an issue to you, you have a life, you gave this to us as a gift AS IS. I couldn't ever take you for a douche when you gave this away to us.

If you don't find time to give me the hour of the day, it's just fine.
Honest.

Is not your problem.

Anyway, I am changing bits of code to see what it does (not choosing randomly) trying to find what could be the cause.

And reading your last reply I am/will check those parameters too.

EDIT: Couldn't find the key element that's messing this up :P

EDIT2: At 100% Windows overall Display settings same behaviour.

EDIT3: If I change the rtconfig global scaling to 1.5 or 1.0 (windows at 100% or 150% or 200% scenarios) my issue fixes itself but still some images display in the wrong areas still.

EDIT4: The Triangles image (master, aux, receive) always stays in the same place, instead of always being below the vu meters. Bybass images should be below (kinda) this Triangles image.

EDIT5: If there is a macro for TCP and works great (remember in the MCP track names won't display in most layouts, whereas in the TCP they display just fine?) and TCP works perfectly,
this leads me to believe there is something at least "missing" or "misleading" in the MCP that makes it not work as it should.

EDIT6: I totally get it: If it works just fine for you in a Mac, why it shouldn't in Windows if themes are OS-nostic. Computers...

[talustalus]

Originally Posted by jrengmusic

Find this on Action list

SWS: Make folder from selected tracks

Thank you
And I can see why this is far more useful then the 'make track a folder' button.

This theme is all-round something special.

[sightlessness]

Ok, so I took Imperial 24 theme, and changed the rtconfig: added the lines
"version 5
global_scale 2.0"
at the top, and guess what? It does the same thing,
places the VU meters below 3 main Track zones (mcp) :P

Also as with JRENG, from the mid to the top area of the track images (icons)
are misplaced.

I do have Display settings in Windows 10 "Change the size of tet, apps, and other itmes" to 200%, always had.

Thanks.

EDIT: Also made an experiment placing the JRENGS theme's images into Imperial's folder (overwriting what it could find) and adding the lines
"version 5
global_scale 2.0"
doing the same thing.
If I remove those lines, and then set in the Advanced UI/system settings "Scale UI elements...." by: 1.90, VU meters still appear at the top and
3 Track zones I mention all the time below as they should. And even buttons/icons appear where they should, I think, but deformed, yet they all work great.
TCP always looks great no matter what (or 9% there sometimeS)

[jrengmusic]

METRIC MCP may look similar to Imperial, and there are macros which taken from Imperial v5 WIP (with a slight modification IIRC), but everything else was coded from scratch. Because it is a different design, by element also by behavior. So the logic was different, thus replacing images with different WALTER might not end up as you expected.

[sightlessness]

After silly things I did, I found a MOTHERFKCING SOLUTION!
I was desperate, that much I liked this... lol.
So, I just changed the value of the line "global_scale 2.0" from 2.0 to 1.9 (which worked) then 1.99,
which also worked. Oh lord.
Made this Reaper project just to show all the track layouts TCP and MCP. I knew it was JUST A DETAIL that had to be messed around with.
What I don't get is why this is happening, lol.

EDIT: I posted my solution ASAP just in case you were at least thinking about a solution, so we could all rest in peace. Computers... lol

yes by Charlie Brown, on Flickr

[sightlessness]

Yeah, I was just desperate trying to find a solution.
THANKS SO MUCH for sharing this theme from the first time
I saw it I knew it was "my" theme to go.
When I started using it, I knew design wise to the eyes was very good,
some could say it was cluttered or needed some contrast, whatever, worked
great for me.

AWESOME :P

Originally Posted by jrengmusic

METRIC MCP may look similar to Imperial, and there are macros which taken from Imperial v5 WIP (with a slight modification IIRC), but everything else was coded from scratch. Because it is a different design, by element also by behavior. So the logic was different, thus replacing images with different WALTER might not end up as you expected.

[jrengmusic]

Great!

Maybe it’s REAPER rounding issue with Windows?

Anyway, i’m glad you find solution which might help other user whom having the same problem.

Is the blank MCP label still occurring after the 1.99 scaling?

Edit: Oh you may want to install the METRIC font for the transport.

[sightlessness]

Yes, still blank MCP label on all layouts but Auxiliary.

Yes, I was comparing how it looks on mine and yours (at your site)
lol, I was like ok, I know I installed the Exo 2 font, and that one
at the transport isn't it, went down to the FAQ, yeah, I forgot about that.

Just stumbled your music site, and I went to Youtube, watched the last 2
videos, loved them. Love images with loads of contrast so that's why I loved them, and your editing was spot on. Ofc songs are very nice :P I like how bass is not hidden as in loads of songs on Youtube. Subbed!

So, so far, I have tested a little bit the theme, and can't find anything
unusual except yeah, the blank MCP issue.

Thanks so much again, you don't know how happy I am, I wish you could see me
smiling, lol. Cheers!

[xpander]

Originally Posted by sightlessness

So, I just changed the value of the line "global_scale 2.0" from 2.0 to 1.9 (which worked) then 1.99,
which also worked.

Thanks for posting this, global_scale 2.0 was a good search keyword and found many similar posts about the scale issue. According to many posters it seems 1.9x is a good scale for Windows while 2.0 if fine for Macs?

There was also a mention about scaling to 200% making pink lines 2 pixels wide, which would mess up images relying on pink lines. But I think that was meant when themers are editing already existing images to make the bigger themes. At any rate, a good point top keep in mind.

[White Tie]

Originally Posted by jrengmusic

My main problem is, I don't have a Windows machine to test. So i couldn't debug the problem in macOS.

What might cause the layouts behave differently on Windows display vs macOS? In this case the track label, and the extmixer layout. Maybe the logic i wrote in WALTER doesn't work on Windows display monitor?

Would you mind have a look at METRIC rtconfig? Perhaps there are line of codes that i could optimize to work on both OS.

Thanks WT.

First things first : ignore the OS thing. The only real OS difference is a slight text baseline difference, but that's a detail thing and I can talk you through fixing it once the text is actually visible I can't guarantee there isn't something weird going on with Windows because it allows all kinds of different scaling factors while OSX is just a simple 1x/2x, and then of course there's the simple matter that Reaper's HiDPI functionality is extremely experimental and could well be a little bit horribly broken ...we're exploring in new territory here. But at first glance it doesn't smell like that.

Here's what I can say for sure: because your mixer design isn't fully responsive, if it opens in a mixer window with the extended mixer set really big (which it does in a vanilla reaper install!) then the design is all scrunched up, and difficult to un-scrunch because the extmixer handle is hidden behind the routing section.

Obviously its not ideal to expect users to understand the fine details of all of this, but we now have the 'toosmall' indicator to solve this. Set it to the minimum height that your design makes sense, and if the user doesn't give it enough space then it'll just scoot off the bottom of the screen. They won't be able to actually use it, but they'll at least understand why and that they need to do some resizing If you want to be a bit more fancypants, add a few more hide commands as the mixer gets really small so it degrades in an attractive (though perhaps not necessarily that useful) way.
Edit : nope, you had it right. There's a Reaper bug, useful data for the experimental mode, thanks!

I don't know what's going on with the mixer label, I can't see it here, and if my guess of the cause is correct then I don't have a clue why it wouldn't be broken for you as well. Very weird. Anyway, my guess is this: you've done something odd with the marginshift macro...

set base_element        count{0}>0 . + [element element element element element] * * 2{2} [0 0 mcp.size{0}] - totalframes 1

...that multiply by 2 thing ...I don't know why you've done that. mcp.size is your mcp.size, as you set it, irrespective of the screen resolution. The imageshift moves panels by the width of the mcp to mask to different frames, and the marginshift then pushes the text back into view. The way you've used it on the mixer label is correct, your image is set up correctly, so all it needs to do is shove things left or right by a multiple of of the panel width, which is (confusing walter moment alert!) the first value of mcp.size, not the third. I think there's one or more cockups in there that you'll have very little difficulty in fixing If not, then ...er... yeah, maybe you've found a HiDPI bug, and if so then congratulations, that's a very useful thing.





--------------------------------------------------

Originally Posted by jrengmusic

METRIC MCP may look similar to Imperial, and there are macros which taken from Imperial v5 WIP (with a slight modification IIRC), but everything else was coded from scratch.

I am far from a credit whore ...but c'mon man. What you have made here is a miraculous achievement and I'd go so far as to say its the finest first-time theme we've ever seen. You've been upfront about your sources; you've taken an existing design and an existing theme and melded them into something new and magnificent, and you've been a stand-up guy by being clear about that. Don't start walking it back now, it gains you nothing.

Looking through your walter, I'm seriously impressed and have 100% confidence that you could do all of this from scratch. And I hope you stick with Reaper theming and do exactly that, you're already easily better at walter than the majority of themers. But it isn't without problems. There's loads of remnants of ImperialV5WIP code in there, mostly (at first glance) looking like its not even doing anything. I always say that modding a theme is harder than making one from scratch, for you I'd say that is doubly true because you're clearly capable of doing this yourself, and doing it well.

[White Tie]

Originally Posted by xpander

According to many posters it seems 1.9x is a good scale for Windows while 2.0 if fine for Macs?

My windows 10 HiDPI test platform is a Surface Pro 4, 2736x1824 at 200% scaling. Works fine.

[sightlessness]

All I know is in my system it was giving me this messy "error" (my
screenshots are "proof") and well, at the end of the day little did I know
all I had to do was unzip theme, change value to 1.99, rezip and voilá,
best theme ever in use now (close 2nd Imperial? wink wink :P )

This would help anyone if they (big IF maybe) had my issue now they know.

[White Tie]

Yeah, you're onto something. There's a Reaper bug here whereby a type[1] extmixer is being forced into being a type[0] at 2x scaling.

Reported. Thanks for the find!

[jrengmusic]

I have couple of minutes before recording next instruments. So, here we go...

White Tie,

Thank you for chiming in and help us sorting up these problems. I really appreciate your thorough inspection on my brutal WALTER coding. Indeed–as you can see on those remnant of codes–Imperial has tremendously influence this theme in a great manner. In fact, without Imperial and your ingenious WALTER coding there wouldn't be METRIC in the first place. So, hats off to you Sir!

----------------------------------------------------------

It's been more than a year past since the last time i touch those codes. I don't remember exactly what were i doing with it back then.

But IIRC, marginshift macro straight from your Imperial v5 WIP does not work as it expected on @2x scaling–at least on my macOS.

The following are comparison between the two on my 2015 15" Retina MacBookPro.

Imperial v5 WIP

macro marginshift element variable frame totalframes
def count        element##_cnt
def base_element element##_base
set base_element count{0}>0 . + [element element element element element] * [0 0 mcp.size{0}] - totalframes 1
set frameshift   * mcp.size{0} - frame 1
set element      ?variable{0} + base_element * [1 0 -1] frameshift count{0}>0 . base_element
set count        + count [1]
endmacro

Thus, i kinda hack a workaround with those 2 times multiplier, which proven to be working for Retina screen, but it seems cause problem on Windows.

M E T R I C

macro marginshift element variable frame totalframes
	def count               element##_cnt
	def base_element 	 element##_base
	set base_element        count{0}>0 . + [element element element element element] * * 2{2} [0 0 mcp.size{0}] - totalframes 1
	set frameshift          * * 2 mcp.size{0} - frame 1
	set element             ?variable{0} + base_element * [1 0 -1] frameshift count{0}>0 . base_element
	set count               + count [1]
endmacro

Perhaps, have we found another bug on REAPER's experimental HiDPI/Retina functionality?

OK, GTG. Now i have to back to record some music...

[White Tie]

Originally Posted by jrengmusic

Perhaps, have we found another bug on REAPER's experimental HiDPI/Retina functionality?

Indeed! On windows if I remove your doubling multipliers from base_element and frameshift, the track name appears. So my guess is that your adjustments were needed because its misreporting mcp.size on OSX, though I can't confirm that because my mac isn't retina. I'll report as much as we know and hopefully that'll be enough.

[sightlessness]

Awesome you fixed the names now, still I got to use 1.99 for "exact" replica
in your website screenshots.

But if I change the value back to 2.0 the theme works great either way, elements
work all great and no surprises, but VU meters are now not on top, which is something some would prefer, and get more real estate for FX inserts and stuff.

But since I found out with the mouse wheel you can browse that real estate, I
am using 1.99 anyway (not because i like or dont like VU meters at the top)
but because overall for me is more aesthetic that way.

[SBK]

Dude..

This is crazy, does it goes for normal resolution too?

[sightlessness]

Nay /5char

[White Tie]

Update:

bug 1 (mode1 extmixer shifting to mode0 at global scale >2) has been fixed in the latest pre-release version, so please stand by for that to be in the next full release.

bug 2 : If I make the following changes to revert changes to the marginshift macro, it fixes all problems on Windows and doesn't cause problems on non-retina OSX.

set base_element    count{0}>0 . + [element element element element element] * * 2{2} [0 0 mcp.size{0}] - totalframes 1
set frameshift      * * 2 mcp.size{0} - frame 1

to

set base_element    count{0}>0 . + [element element element element element] * [0 0 mcp.size{0}] - totalframes 1
set frameshift      * mcp.size{0} - frame 1

so the next test would be for someone with a retina mac to make those changes and see if they break the mixer name field.

[jrengmusic]

Originally Posted by White Tie

Update:

bug 2 : If I make the following changes to revert changes to the marginshift macro, it fixes all problems on Windows and doesn't cause problems on non-retina OSX.

set base_element    count{0}>0 . + [element element element element element] * [0 0 mcp.size{0}] - totalframes 1
set frameshift      * mcp.size{0} - frame 1

so the next test would be for someone with a retina mac to make those changes and see if they break the mixer name field.

Thanks for the heads up.

Tested on latest pre v5.965+dev1231 / reaper5965+dev1231-icc18_x86_64. Without doubling multipliers, the mixer label still broken on retina screen.

[woogish]

This theme is way too glaring for me, but MAN! A LOT of real good ideas here! Such as:
more detail in slider markings (mcp_volbg) on select..... my favorite theme would be one that shows most tcp/mcp controls/knobs only on hover or select, excepting volume, pan, mute and solo. "Show on demand" would include i/o routing, fx stuff, etc.
I PREFER LESS CLUTTER!!! This theme has that feature.
Good thinking on much of this theme.

2 HOURS LATER-
The more I look at this, the more I like it... especially the "lit up" look of the rec, solo, and mute buttons.......

[sightlessness]

What line of code do I need to change to nudge the faders on the mcp
a little up. Even at 2 global scale (rememeber we have it at 1.99 on Windows)
at zero (unity gain, whatever you wanna call it) faders don't line up with the
lines drawn there.

Thanks! (reading Walter guide now I guess)

[jrengmusic]

The faders line up at unity for volume fader range +18dB Default shape.

[sightlessness]

The highest my faders go is 12+ db :P

So I can't move faders? For future themes I'd like to know. Thanks.

[lucas_LCS]

Originally Posted by sightlessness

The highest my faders go is 12+ db :P

So I can't move faders? For future themes I'd like to know. Thanks.

Do you have the volume fader range set to +18 in the preferences?
This section is at the bottom of the Track Control Panels page.
It's labeled as: /Volume/Pan Faders

[sightlessness]

Awesome Lucas, thank you very much. I was looking for that
but there's so much to read within Reaper, lol.

Now my faders line up perfectly.

Do we need faders going that high? Is it useful because
maybe our recorded audio is very quiet so we just use the fader
instead of normalizing stuff?

Just wondering as I don't know what is the standard way to work with DAWS.

Thanks again so much

[jrengmusic]

Originally Posted by sightlessness

Do we need faders going that high? Is it useful because
maybe our recorded audio is very quiet so we just use the fader
instead of normalizing stuff?

Normalizing item means you change the gain pre-insert-FX on track, whereas fader is post-FX. Depending on what FX you put on the track fx insert slot, the result are two different stories.

[sightlessness]

You're so right thanks for reminding me of that.
Some plugins do react depending of the input volume
they get.

Cheers.

[Justin]

Originally Posted by jrengmusic

Thanks for the heads up.

Tested on latest pre v5.965+dev1231 / reaper5965+dev1231-icc18_x86_64. Without doubling multipliers, the mixer label still broken on retina screen.

Hmm can you make me a minimal test/demo? Thanks

[sightlessness]

Unless I remove the 2* multipliers, I get no track names on the MCP.

And I still have to use 1.99 which really makes the theme look a cent off
item position wise. I can tell because when I click arm record, the fader moves
a little to the left or the right, when using the global value of 2,
as original, everything works fine.

Again, when using the 2 value, I don't get the Volume Meters at the top, I get a missing icon unless I move mcp fx list and sends up down, in other words, a little messy.

I wonder if the 1.99 or any other value has to do with the theme's determined
area for items?

TL;DR
No 2* multipliers on Win 10, 4k Oled TV, no matter global value: Track names on MCP
1.99 global value fixes volume METERS at the top, but 1 cent off some items at least
2 global value: Volume faders NOT at the top and theme starts to look messy.

[jrengmusic]

Originally Posted by Justin

Hmm can you make me a minimal test/demo? Thanks

Here you go
JRENG!_METRIC_debug.ReaperThemeZip

[Justin]

Figured out the difference - the margins applied are half what they should be when rendering to macOS HiDPI. Fixing this, though it will break your macOS appearances, it will make it consistent across OSes.

Edit: ah, if you change the use of marginshift_mac to be marginshift_win, it fixes with the new build (that Windows layout won't work right unless it also resets the marginshift count, I think)

[jrengmusic]

Originally Posted by Justin

Fixing this, though it will break your macOS appearances, it will make it consistent across OSes.

If it’s consistent across OSes i’m happy to update METRIC WALTER.

Thanks Justin.