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Old 01-13-2022, 01:52 PM   #1
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Default Getting some sort of dropouts I'd like to solve

I have a new laptop with reaper on it, and it's got good specs. Everything seems to work great most of the time. But, I get some moments where the timeline/bar readout will flash red a couple times, everything pauses, and then resumes again.

I really need to solve this, as if I'm recording, it will mess everything up.

I can't seem to figure out what exactly is causing it though. It could maybe be a shortage of ram, but I'm not sure. Is there a way I can identify what was the cause?
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Old 01-13-2022, 03:04 PM   #2
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I have not had to use it, but I think a lot of people use LatencyMon to help with diagnosing what may be the cause of audio latency with your PC.. give it a try:

LatencyMon
https://www.resplendence.com/latencymon
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Old 01-13-2022, 04:08 PM   #3
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Thanks, but it's not latency. It's like the computer stops for a second, as though it's working something out and then it starts again.

The transport readout flashes red, and then it starts up again.

The latency monitoring is just fine at 4ms. This is happening at just normal playback of one single track with no processing on it. However, I do have a second tab open, which is a very large powerful project, pushing like 10gigs of ram usage.
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Old 01-13-2022, 04:31 PM   #4
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Wifi? Anti-virus? Power saving?

If you have less than 10gigs ram (as used by project in tab), you may be seeing disk swapping. Does it happen if you close the tab project?

dB
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Old 01-13-2022, 04:31 PM   #5
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Have you run all the changes suggested in the e-booklet "Glitch Free"? It covers all aspects of getting your computer optimised for Audi & MIDI recording, including *glitches* like yours, in case you had forgotten.
Have fun wrestling with it - very common with new toys.
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Old 01-13-2022, 05:14 PM   #6
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Default interface

What is the interface ?

You should use one that comes with an ASIO driver like RME interfaces.
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Old 01-13-2022, 05:45 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Bob View Post
Wifi? Anti-virus? Power saving?

If you have less than 10gigs ram (as used by project in tab), you may be seeing disk swapping. Does it happen if you close the tab project?

dB
Just tested it, and yes. Just playing one track with audio on it, and no FX anywhere in the project, causes this to happen. About a gig of ram, and like 0.2% of the processor is being used. But still, at certain intervals, I get teh flashing red screen with silence, and it's not like 20ms drop out, it's like a good full second and change.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ivansc View Post
Have you run all the changes suggested in the e-booklet "Glitch Free"? It covers all aspects of getting your computer optimised for Audi & MIDI recording, including *glitches* like yours, in case you had forgotten.
Have fun wrestling with it - very common with new toys.
I have not. I actually didn't realize there was such a thing. But, I'm suspicious that there is a setting somewhere like that which could be responsible. Oh yes.. "fun" -.-

Thanks, though, I 'll look for it

EDIT: In the power options, I didn't have ANY of the settings they had in the booklet, aside from slideshow, when the computer sleeps, and battery stuff. Couldn't even choose "high performance" setting. There was only balanced, and nothing extra in advanced options. I also noticed that if I'm away from reaper when I come back it can take a little before it plays after hitting space. It's like reaper goes to sleep a little bit. Is there a way to prioritize reaper somehow? I went through that booklet, and there weren't many things I was able to change, and there was nothing really dramatic. It also looks like it's from on older version of windows. I'm on 10 rn, but I might upgrade to 11 at some point.

I've noticed that when I look at cpu and memory information after I see this happening a number of times it has read roughly 30 seconds after a save. could be just a coincidence, or could it be autosaves doing it? Could there be reaper configurations I should alter with my new PC? I'm using the ones from my older one. But reaper saves should be faster on SSD.

This is so infuriating. I wish there was a way to see what just happened with my computer. There must be a spike of something somewhere right at that moment.

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What is the interface ?

You should use one that comes with an ASIO driver like RME interfaces.
UMC404HD. It has asio drivers. I don't think it's anything to do with buffering, honestly. Antivirus was a good guess, but I don't have one of those. Could be something background that kicks in every once in a while though, something like that.

Last edited by Sound asleep; 01-13-2022 at 07:04 PM.
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Old 01-13-2022, 09:17 PM   #8
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UMC404HD. It has asio drivers. I don't think it's anything to do with buffering, honestly. Antivirus was a good guess, but I don't have one of those. Could be something background that kicks in every once in a while though, something like that.
On that note, have you checked Windows' Task Manager to see if anything pops up and uses a lot of CPU/Memory/Disk when the lag happens? Sort the columns.. or check the performance tab for spikes.

With what you're describing in your second post, it probably wouldn't show anything, but could check the Performance meter in reaper too for any abnormality.

Task manager would probably be a quick and dirty way to tell see if there's a big spike happening on your CPU/memory/disk/network/etc. In particularl, 100% CPU/Disk/Memory or even network usage. Just keep task manager up as you're doing your thing, and when things freeze up, check if one of those is hitting 100% (or even close).. then it might be a simple matter of sorting that column under processes and see if some process (other than Reaper) is pinning that resource. As rudimentary as it is, the task manager can probably at least narrow down the problem.. within Reaper or something outside of Reaper (what you seem to be suspecting, with a "background process").


And while you ruled out buffering, I'll just say it anyways, of course make sure that while you have ASIO drivers installed on your PC, you're actually using them in Reaper's Audio prefs. Also, in regards to not having a high performance power plan, you might be able to add it yourself (see here). That might be a good idea to do, in case something is going to sleep on you.
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Last edited by nait; 01-13-2022 at 09:28 PM.
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Old 01-13-2022, 10:41 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ivansc View Post
Have you run all the changes suggested in the e-booklet "Glitch Free"? It covers all aspects of getting your computer optimised for Audi & MIDI recording, including *glitches* like yours, in case you had forgotten.
Have fun wrestling with it - very common with new toys.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallaby View Post
What is the interface ?

You should use one that comes with an ASIO driver like RME interfaces.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nait View Post
On that note, have you checked Windows' Task Manager to see if anything pops up and uses a lot of CPU/Memory/Disk when the lag happens? Sort the columns.. or check the performance tab for spikes.
It's kind of hard to catch it sometimes. I wish I could just set it to record a log, and draw me a graph with all that information so I could look for spikes.


Quote:
With what you're describing in your second post, it probably wouldn't show anything, but could check the Performance meter in reaper too for any abnormality.
didn't know there was such a thing. I just got the dropouts and didn't notice anything unusual.


Quote:
Task manager would probably be a quick and dirty way to tell see if there's a big spike happening on your CPU/memory/disk/network/etc. In particularl, 100% CPU/Disk/Memory or even network usage. Just keep task manager up as you're doing your thing, and when things freeze up, check if one of those is hitting 100% (or even close).. then it might be a simple matter of sorting that column under processes and see if some process (other than Reaper) is pinning that resource. As rudimentary as it is, the task manager can probably at least narrow down the problem.. within Reaper or something outside of Reaper (what you seem to be suspecting, with a "background process").
So, I've made some progress. I discovered that the red flashing of the transport readout is due to not being able to read the disk. I've also noticed that there is in fact a spike on the disk when the dropouts occur. But I don't get it. The disk should be fast enough. It connects via USB C. It looks pretty completely quiet, and then all of a sudden it crazy spikes, and I get the dropout. I think it must be shoving everything into ram, and then just playing that, and then it gets to the end of the ram it stored, and goes to retrieve everything all at once, and it's too little too late. It looks like the hard drive sort of goes to sleep in a sense or something. But, how do I make it not do that? It looks like this is something that would normally be able to be addressed in the power options menu, but it looks like my power options menu is really sort of dumbed down. This sort of thing really infuriates me.



Quote:
And while you ruled out buffering, I'll just say it anyways, of course make sure that while you have ASIO drivers installed on your PC, you're actually using them in Reaper's Audio prefs. Also, in regards to not having a high performance power plan, you might be able to add it yourself (see here). That might be a good idea to do, in case something is going to sleep on you.
There are no options for choosing a high performance plan for the power options for me. Just everything is missing. I'm gonna have to contact the manufacturer I guess.

Thanks for all your help everyone.

EDIT: I discovered that there was a checkbox for the hard drive in device manager that was on that said it would let the computer put my hard drive to sleep. Hopefully that was the problem. I'd still really like to get access to all the power options I'm supposed to have.

Don't buy HP laptops if you do anything professional I guess. That said, this does appear to have solved my immediate problem, so I don't actually really miss those other settings.... yet lol.

Last edited by Sound asleep; 01-13-2022 at 11:24 PM.
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Old 01-14-2022, 12:21 AM   #10
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What a pain! I cant believe HP would deliberately limit your power settings! Exactly which model do you have? I am thinking there might be some bitching about it in the HP user forums, where there may also be a solution without you having to deal with HP "help".
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Old 01-14-2022, 12:41 AM   #11
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Found this one so far.

This one looks like a more complete solution. It looks like this is a relatively common things with newer computers.

I hate that about computers, because they're always trying to dumb things down for people, and it's just making it harder for the people that actually care about the options, and sort of know what they're doing. Then on windows you have the legacy control panel stuff, and the new "mobile" settings, and it's ridiculous, because you never know where anything is.

I can understand having "basic" level controls, and then "advanced" level, or even basic level settings panel and then completely separate advanced level. But they're all over the place. More and more it seems to me like when companies get large, they just get worse at doing things. Idk windows 11, but hopefully they improved things in that regard.

I mean, when all your power users have to go in and make registry changes, and powershell modifications and this sort of thing, that's not right.

People who don't care shouldn't be cluttered with options. I get it. But these settings should be accessible to power users without having to go through all those steps, just to make them visible.
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Old 01-14-2022, 05:23 AM   #12
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Definitely run the hack to fix the missing power plan thing and select high performance or switch between them for audio non audio.

Also make sure you have usb selective suspend disabled and in device manager open properties on anything called a usb hub and in it's power management tab untick the box that says "Allow the computer to turn off this device to save power"
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Old 01-14-2022, 07:46 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sound asleep View Post
So, I've made some progress. I discovered that the red flashing of the transport readout is due to not being able to read the disk. I've also noticed that there is in fact a spike on the disk when the dropouts occur. But I don't get it. The disk should be fast enough. It connects via USB C. It looks pretty completely quiet, and then all of a sudden it crazy spikes, and I get the dropout. I think it must be shoving everything into ram, and then just playing that, and then it gets to the end of the ram it stored, and goes to retrieve everything all at once, and it's too little too late. It looks like the hard drive sort of goes to sleep in a sense or something. But, how do I make it not do that? It looks like this is something that would normally be able to be addressed in the power options menu, but it looks like my power options menu is really sort of dumbed down. This sort of thing really infuriates me.





There are no options for choosing a high performance plan for the power options for me. Just everything is missing. I'm gonna have to contact the manufacturer I guess.

Thanks for all your help everyone.

EDIT: I discovered that there was a checkbox for the hard drive in device manager that was on that said it would let the computer put my hard drive to sleep. Hopefully that was the problem. I'd still really like to get access to all the power options I'm supposed to have.

Don't buy HP laptops if you do anything professional I guess. That said, this does appear to have solved my immediate problem, so I don't actually really miss those other settings.... yet lol.
ah-ha!

Sorry... I was actually going to ask specifically if your SSD was USB when I mentioned that something might be going to sleep, but I thought that because you didn't mention a second drive it was probably internal. That would not be uncommon for a USB device to be suspended. The symptoms kind of made it sound like it was due to drive access though. A long pause tends to be due to disk access and is likely due to the drive coming back to life. Not that he needs my agreement, but Stella's post about ensuring USB isn't being put to sleep is very important too.


Re laptop brands...
HP was on my black list a long time ago, TBH, as is Dell. I actually typically stay away from laptops for anything other than simple use just because most actually need a bunch of configuration to get them to perform better, whether that be uninstalling bloatware, just using cheap hardware, or other reasons... but I know a lot of people love their laptops. They just often take a bit of work to get them up to speed.

Asus tends to be my brand for most hardware. Their lower end laptops can also be pretty spotty.. that is a thing for any brand. But they do make some great mid range/high end laptops, from my experience.

Against my better judgement, I went with a Dell for my last laptop.. wanted to give them another chance because they make really nice looking lightweight laptops (XPS 13, in this case) and more importantly have an easy payment plan. God do I ever regret that. Such bad money spent. It took a bit of messing around, but I got rid of all the bloat off of it, minus their update utility (by choice). It runs better now, but I paid a premium for an i7 laptop that was not as good as my older, much cheaper, i3 Samsung laptop. I haven't tried HP in a long time, but will never go back to them. I think both brands are more suited to the average consumer.
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Last edited by nait; 01-14-2022 at 07:52 AM.
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Old 01-14-2022, 08:25 AM   #14
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Might want to try bringing up the (old) Control Panel
Choose Power Options
This should allow you to set for Performance?
Could be totally off base but on my Win10pro machine I can still access this way.
Although this is a HP tower so maybe HP did something different to their laptops?
Running Win10pro v21H1

I hate the way setting are setup in Win10 and still use mostly the "control panel" to change settings. Why oh why do they have to hide all the old settings managers.
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Old 01-14-2022, 11:56 AM   #15
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ah-ha!

Sorry... I was actually going to ask specifically if your SSD was USB when I mentioned that something might be going to sleep, but I thought that because you didn't mention a second drive it was probably internal. That would not be uncommon for a USB device to be suspended. The symptoms kind of made it sound like it was due to drive access though. A long pause tends to be due to disk access and is likely due to the drive coming back to life. Not that he needs my agreement, but Stella's post about ensuring USB isn't being put to sleep is very important too.
SSD is actually internal. External drive is HDD, I may have messed that up somewhere.



Quote:
Re laptop brands...
HP was on my black list a long time ago, TBH, as is Dell. I actually typically stay away from laptops for anything other than simple use just because most actually need a bunch of configuration to get them to perform better, whether that be uninstalling bloatware, just using cheap hardware, or other reasons... but I know a lot of people love their laptops. They just often take a bit of work to get them up to speed.

Asus tends to be my brand for most hardware. Their lower end laptops can also be pretty spotty.. that is a thing for any brand. But they do make some great mid range/high end laptops, from my experience.

Against my better judgement, I went with a Dell for my last laptop.. wanted to give them another chance because they make really nice looking lightweight laptops (XPS 13, in this case) and more importantly have an easy payment plan. God do I ever regret that. Such bad money spent. It took a bit of messing around, but I got rid of all the bloat off of it, minus their update utility (by choice). It runs better now, but I paid a premium for an i7 laptop that was not as good as my older, much cheaper, i3 Samsung laptop. I haven't tried HP in a long time, but will never go back to them. I think both brands are more suited to the average consumer.
Ya, definitely more suited to average consumer, but still. It doesn't make sense for it to be this way. I definitely prefer desktops overall, but the portability of laptops is really great.
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Old 01-14-2022, 11:58 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by fsynth View Post
Might want to try bringing up the (old) Control Panel
Choose Power Options
This should allow you to set for Performance?
Could be totally off base but on my Win10pro machine I can still access this way.
Although this is a HP tower so maybe HP did something different to their laptops?
Running Win10pro v21H1

I hate the way setting are setup in Win10 and still use mostly the "control panel" to change settings. Why oh why do they have to hide all the old settings managers.
They nuked the control panel settings. Some people on the internet said it weas because a lot of laptops have energy saver sliders that manage all of that, but I didn't see any of those, either.
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Old 01-14-2022, 01:08 PM   #17
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SSD is actually internal. External drive is HDD, I may have messed that up somewhere.
Ahh, OK.. is that HDD being accessed at some point whenever your getting the dropouts? Have you tried doing things without the drive plugged in, even, to see if the dropouts stop? Ideally, you eliminate that drive from being needed for Reaper, if you possibly can. If it is already, maybe something else happens to be accessing it while you are running Reaper.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sound asleep View Post
Ya, definitely more suited to average consumer, but still. It doesn't make sense for it to be this way. I definitely prefer desktops overall, but the portability of laptops is really great.
Yeah, I think it's more brands like HP and Dell (and some others) that really dumb down the settings on laptops moreso than others. There are definitely ways around that such as completely redoing the OS and getting rid of any trace of HP software on there, but there are probably easier ways to do that.

Can you do anything in device manager? Right click start button, pick Device Manager. Find your usb hub(s) there and if there's a power management tab (hooray!), uncheck "allow the computer to turn off this device to save power", if you can. I suspect you won't have that.

Another way would be to open up a command prompt as Administrator and run these commands:

powercfg /SETDCVALUEINDEX SCHEME_CURRENT 2a737441-1930-4402-8d77-b2bebba308a3 48e6b7a6-50f5-4782-a5d4-53bb8f07e226 0

powercfg /SETACVALUEINDEX SCHEME_CURRENT 2a737441-1930-4402-8d77-b2bebba308a3 48e6b7a6-50f5-4782-a5d4-53bb8f07e226 0


The first one will turn off USB suspend feature when you're on battery. The second will turn it off when you're plugged in.

If you want to undo these, instead of a 0 at the end, put a 1.

You can Google up those two commands if you're a little hesitant to use them. There are also ways to do it via the registry (google that up).

If that still doesn't work, I wonder if HP has some sort of Policy(s) on the machine to prevent/reset those power settings.
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Old 01-14-2022, 01:14 PM   #18
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Ahh, OK.. is that HDD being accessed at some point whenever your getting the dropouts? Have you tried doing things without the drive plugged in, even, to see if the dropouts stop? Ideally, you eliminate that drive from being needed for Reaper, if you possibly can. If it is already, maybe something else happens to be accessing it while you are running Reaper.
Ya, the dropouts were definitely the hard drive that went to sleep, and the was woken up. But I disallowed it to sleep now.



Quote:
Yeah, I think it's more brands like HP and Dell (and some others) that really dumb down the settings on laptops moreso than others. There are definitely ways around that such as completely redoing the OS and getting rid of any trace of HP software on there, but there are probably easier ways to do that.

Can you do anything in device manager? Right click start button, pick Device Manager. Find your usb hub(s) there and if there's a power management tab (hooray!), uncheck "allow the computer to turn off this device to save power", if you can. I suspect you won't have that.

Another way would be to open up a command prompt as Administrator and run these commands:

powercfg /SETDCVALUEINDEX SCHEME_CURRENT 2a737441-1930-4402-8d77-b2bebba308a3 48e6b7a6-50f5-4782-a5d4-53bb8f07e226 0

powercfg /SETACVALUEINDEX SCHEME_CURRENT 2a737441-1930-4402-8d77-b2bebba308a3 48e6b7a6-50f5-4782-a5d4-53bb8f07e226 0


The first one will turn off USB suspend feature when you're on battery. The second will turn it off when you're plugged in.

If you want to undo these, instead of a 0 at the end, put a 1.

You can Google up those two commands if you're a little hesitant to use them. There are also ways to do it via the registry (google that up).

If that still doesn't work, I wonder if HP has some sort of Policy(s) on the machine to prevent/reset those power settings.
It was in device manager that I did it.
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Old 01-14-2022, 01:15 PM   #19
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Oh OK, so everything is all good for you now then?

I thought you had, my bad, but then saw some more discussion on it and thought maybe you just knew it was that HDD causing the issue, but hadn't figured out how to turn off USB suspend for it.
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Old 01-14-2022, 02:00 PM   #20
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Oh OK, so everything is all good for you now then?

I thought you had, my bad, but then saw some more discussion on it and thought maybe you just knew it was that HDD causing the issue, but hadn't figured out how to turn off USB suspend for it.
No worries! But ya, so far so good lol. That particular thing I did manage to figure out. But who knows what else might come up?

My interface is pretty new as well, and I've had to figure that out also.

But everything seems to be working well rn, fingers crossed.
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Old 01-14-2022, 02:06 PM   #21
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Ah yes, I've been bit by sleepy drives as well. So many tricksy considerations for the home-recordist...it's a wonder we ever make any music.
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Old 01-14-2022, 02:13 PM   #22
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The only good thing about crappy Windows (and mac) messups is that they generally force you to improve your education as far as fixing OS-generated problems!
Glad you are gettin gthere.
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