Old 03-28-2012, 09:47 AM   #1
dea-man
Human being with feelings
 
dea-man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 6,131
Default Computer tweaks for Win 7 Home Premium???

Dear Computer Guru -

What are the essential computer tweaks for a 64-bit machine running Win 7 Home Premium for audio/Reaper?

Thank you

(I thought I posted this question yesterday, and then realized today I got no response. I went searching for the original post but, could not find it. If this is a double post, sorry.)
__________________
Please check out my REAPER produced music here: http://soundcloud.com/dea-man
dea-man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2012, 10:39 AM   #2
CanadaJimmy
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 37
Default

I think there have been topics on this sort of thing before. Here's some tweaks I applied to improve performance and stability:
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.p...816#post878816
CanadaJimmy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2012, 10:40 AM   #3
bluzkat
Human being with feelings
 
bluzkat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 6,919
Default

Dea-man,

Not sure about the 'guru' part...

IMO, Win 7 isn't in need of many tweaks it will run well out of the box.

What I tweaked:

Turned off UAC (Control Panel> User Accounts) most annoying Windows feature... ever!

Processor scheduling set to "Background" (Control Panel> System> Advanced System settings> Advanced tab> Performance settings)

Then I turned off (or disabled) some of the running 'services' that weren't necessary using the list from the 'Black Viper' site (http://www.blackviper.com/Windows_7/customREG.htm)

That's about it, if I remember anything else I'll add it later.

__________________
Peace...
bluzkat
bluzkat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2012, 10:46 AM   #4
Boray
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,347
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluzkat View Post
Turned off UAC (Control Panel> User Accounts) most annoying Windows feature... ever!
Which means viruses and other sneaky programs now can change things on your computer without your knowledge.

...

You can use my program to run the cpu at 100% frequency while using it (to get a low and stable latency) but still saving power when not using the computer:
http://user.tninet.se/~jad615g/boraypower/
__________________
www.boray.se
Boray is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2012, 10:59 AM   #5
bluzkat
Human being with feelings
 
bluzkat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 6,919
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boray View Post
Which means viruses and other sneaky programs now can change things on your computer without your knowledge.
I use eSet to prevent this and I don't travel to the nether regions of the internet, I'll be fine and so will anyone else with a little commonsense.

I really don't need Windows asking me "Are you sure you want to change this?" every time I change something. YMMV

I'm going to check out your program (missed the original post)... it looks pretty cool.

__________________
Peace...
bluzkat
bluzkat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2012, 01:30 PM   #6
ivansc
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Near Cambridge UK and Near Questembert, France
Posts: 19,052
Default

(grin) I just bought the fastest cpu I could afford and stuffed the mobo with all the ram I could afford.

Since moving to the new machine I rally havent had any performance issues.

BUT it is worth mentioning that you do need to check that all cores of your cpu are running and with a fairly equal load.

There were issues early on with Win7's propensity for "PARKING" supposedly "UNUSED" cores of your cpu, which saved a tiny bit on your electricity bill but screwed up DAW performance beautifully. Worth double checking.

And of course turning off any applications that don't NEED to be running during DAW use.

And of course dump aero and all the other spurious eye candy that Win7 offers you.

I run a plain background on my desktop and reduce all the frills down to the bare minimum to still make looking at Windows a relatively pleasant experience, but doubt it makes a huge difference.

One of these days I will buy a passive cooled graphics card to replace the internal GFX chip currently running things. In theory that should give me back a heady 128mb of ram! Wheee!
ivansc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2012, 03:47 PM   #7
richie43
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 8,555
Default

I used to do the big tweaks for XP, but I am of the thinking that Windows 7 runs audio best with very few tweaks. Disable onboard audio, disable UAC (that's a preference thing, not really a performance tweak), don't install ANY AV that monitors real-time, disable any core-stepping (CPU efficiency settings in bios type), don't have any or many start-up programs, and defrag your audio files often. Other than that and MAYBE a few others, doing any more will, in my pinion, probably hurt more than help. I will even go as far as saying Windows 7, for me, has made ANY of the Black Vipers tweaks obsolete. Micro$oft actually made a good audio OS for us, finally.
__________________
http://soundyaudio.com/ The Sounds of the Hear and Now
richie43 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2012, 05:04 PM   #8
Cosmic
Human being with feelings
 
Cosmic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Online
Posts: 4,643
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by richie43 View Post
I used to do the big tweaks for XP, but I am of the thinking that Windows 7 runs audio best with very few tweaks. Disable onboard audio, disable UAC (that's a preference thing, not really a performance tweak), don't install ANY AV that monitors real-time, disable any core-stepping (CPU efficiency settings in bios type), don't have any or many start-up programs, and defrag your audio files often. Other than that and MAYBE a few others, doing any more will, in my pinion, probably hurt more than help. I will even go as far as saying Windows 7, for me, has made ANY of the Black Vipers tweaks obsolete. Micro$oft actually made a good audio OS for us, finally.

Oh balls.I got a new machine last week(I MAY have mentioned it once or twice elsewhere!)i7 2700k 16 gigs ram...running 7 Ultimate 64 bit..and I like an over zealous fool went straight in and turned off via Black Vipers list everything that wasnt nailed down...have I wasted my time an in fact caused potential problems?

We'll see!!Aww balls.

I think my bios has some speed setting yoke on it too..I'm gonna chack and turn it off now.

Edit..Lads,how do I make sure the on board audio is disabled?Is that a bios thing too?
__________________
it aint worth a bop,if it dont got that pop

Last edited by Cosmic; 03-28-2012 at 05:15 PM.
Cosmic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2012, 05:15 PM   #9
richie43
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 8,555
Default

I am not saying that you will definitely cause problems with those tweaks, but I hope you at least followed the instructions on the Black Viper site and took notes on what you changed, just in case you need to revert one or more of the tweaks to the original setting. My experience with Windows 7 has been awesome, and any tweaks that I tried, beyond what I said above, ended up getting untweaked. It works great. And I also found that some innocuous "tweak" can affect things related further down the chain. This is a complex OS, I think. Looking at your specs, why bother worrying? Just start making music. If you find some limitation down the road, that's the time to ask questions and try to address the issue. We are all so used to under-powered machines and OS's that are dubious at best. Just relax and don't waste time geeking out (unless you would rather tinker with your computer than work with audio...).
__________________
http://soundyaudio.com/ The Sounds of the Hear and Now
richie43 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2012, 05:19 PM   #10
karbomusic
Human being with feelings
 
karbomusic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 24,895
Default

Really should need zero tweaks typically.
__________________
If it requires a null test to find it, it is by definition minuscule.
karbomusic is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2012, 05:21 PM   #11
Cosmic
Human being with feelings
 
Cosmic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Online
Posts: 4,643
Default

Well..there you have it.You may have hit the nail on the head!

its the first time I've ever had a machine that'll do what I require without severe coaxing.

I'll worry about tricking it out when it stops doing what I need.

Thanks man!

Edit..FWIW..its running like a dream...already made a song thats going on a compilation cd for International Record Store Day..its getting mastered tomorrow..I shoukld stop fiddling around and finish the fucking thing!
__________________
it aint worth a bop,if it dont got that pop
Cosmic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2012, 05:24 PM   #12
karbomusic
Human being with feelings
 
karbomusic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 24,895
Default

Quote:
Oh balls. I like an over zealous fool went straight in and turned off via Black Vipers list everything that wasnt nailed down...have I wasted my time an in fact caused potential problems?
So you went through all of that and you weren't even having a problem yet? By doing so these days you'll have much higher chance of chasing down that "unexplained" anomaly that won't creep in until you have completely forgotten about the tweaks. The need to do all of that tweaking pretty much died when machines surpassed the bare minimum to run a DAW. Back in the day, it was hands down necessary, now, rarely so. If you cannot demonstrate and/or measure what you have gained and why, you haven't gained anything. That's not really a disagreement at all just something to remember if you have problems later.
__________________
If it requires a null test to find it, it is by definition minuscule.
karbomusic is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2012, 05:29 PM   #13
ivansc
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Near Cambridge UK and Near Questembert, France
Posts: 19,052
Default

And you dont need to actually disable the internal sound card, just turn off anything that points at it.

Personally, I did away with all system sounds for when I am recording and just saved that setting & left it at that.
Go wander around in the ControL Panel pages and you'll find the appropriate settings easily enough. They havent really hanged in the last three versions of windoze.
ivansc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2012, 05:34 PM   #14
Cosmic
Human being with feelings
 
Cosmic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Online
Posts: 4,643
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post
So you went through all of that and you weren't even having a problem yet? By doing so these days you'll have much higher chance of chasing down that "unexplained" anomaly that won't creep in until you have completely forgotten about the tweaks. The need to do all of that tweaking pretty much died when machines surpassed the bare minimum to run a DAW. Back in the day, it was hands down necessary, now, rarely so. If you cannot demonstrate and/or measure what you have gained and why, you haven't gained anything. That's not really a disagreement at all just something to remember if you have problems later.
Live and learn!

I foresee a complete reinstall in my future.Hopefully not for a long time though.DOH!

Edit..ALTHOUGH...I only turned off all the networking gubbins and fax and shit like that.Firewall etc..I didnt go into the stuff I dont understand.I'll be grand!

My DAWS nevr get within an asses roar of the smelly old dirty internet.
__________________
it aint worth a bop,if it dont got that pop
Cosmic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2012, 06:40 PM   #15
richie43
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 8,555
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dj Gaz Le Rock View Post
Live and learn!

I foresee a complete reinstall in my future.Hopefully not for a long time though.DOH!

Edit..ALTHOUGH...I only turned off all the networking gubbins and fax and shit like that.Firewall etc..I didnt go into the stuff I dont understand.I'll be grand!

My DAWS nevr get within an asses roar of the smelly old dirty internet.
Funny. My DAW goes on the internet quite a bit, and never a problem. Best AV is smart internet use. Granted, I don't randomly surf the net on my DAW, but I do updates, research, forum, etc (like right now!). Never had a problem, ever.
__________________
http://soundyaudio.com/ The Sounds of the Hear and Now
richie43 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2012, 07:04 PM   #16
Cosmic
Human being with feelings
 
Cosmic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Online
Posts: 4,643
Default

Ahh..its a habit I have since never wanting anti virus garbage on my machine to slow it down..not that I do be surfing dodgy porno sites or anything!

..I don't like having the internet right there all the time anyway.Its too distracting.And I'll only update windows if I run into a prob.Which is'nt gonna happen because I have this bad boy running like a ninja..I'll be ghosting this setup in a day or two for back up and that my friend..Will be that.

Solid Reaper City!
__________________
it aint worth a bop,if it dont got that pop
Cosmic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2012, 07:25 AM   #17
The Ricker
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 22
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DevonPete View Post
I know that everyone mentions this as sort of mission critical...but didn't seem to make any difference W7 x64, in fact computer general performance was so terrible, went back to original setting which is where it remains now. (Never had any problems with low latency or glitching audio)

Disabling Hard Disc Indexing comes to mind... loads and loads of well documented tweaks all over the web.

The reason for this post... Here's a helpful free tool (DPC Latency Checker) to check your system to see how efficient it is for music production... loads of help/instructions on their site.

http://www.thesycon.de/eng/latency_check.shtml
Downloaded this and it has been a great help. I also just got a new machine, i7, 12GB RAM, Win7 HP. I did a bit of digging on speeding things up and this site helped:

http://www.delete-computer-history.c...windows-7.html

When I did the "Increase CPU cores", I found out only 1 processor was being used. Since the i7 is quadcore, I increased it 4. I have been checking things with the DPC latency checker and now I am not getting anything in the red.

Hope that helps!
The Ricker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2012, 09:33 AM   #18
Boray
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,347
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Ricker View Post
"Prefetcher is a function that allows Windows 7 to preload data used to run in start application. With this option enabled, you will see a significant boost in performance of application.Here is how to use it"

Isn't superfetch enabled by default in Windows 7 like in Vista?
__________________
www.boray.se
Boray is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2012, 09:49 AM   #19
karbomusic
Human being with feelings
 
karbomusic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 24,895
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluzkat View Post
Dea-man,


Processor scheduling set to "Background" (Control Panel> System> Advanced System settings> Advanced tab> Performance settings)


Why? Reaper isn't a background service, its a foreground user-mode service so that setting is effectively telling the OS to give things like content-indexing or any other backround service priority over reaper. That's why foreground services are enabled by default in desktop OSs and background in servers which depend mostly on background services to service user requests etc.
__________________
If it requires a null test to find it, it is by definition minuscule.
karbomusic is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2012, 09:52 AM   #20
karbomusic
Human being with feelings
 
karbomusic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 24,895
Default

Quote:
I know that everyone mentions this as sort of mission critical...but didn't seem to make any difference W7 x64, in fact computer general performance was so terrible, went back to original setting which is where it remains now. (Never had any problems with low latency or glitching audio)
I don't see why it would make a positive difference. You experience mirrors what I would expect to happen.

As I eluded to earlier, we shouldn't start tweaking until we have an actual performance issue to fix. I can't stress the value of this enough. Very few of these tweaks are going to suddenly make reaper do things it wasn't doing before if it wasn't suffering to begin with. If the tweaks benefits cannot be accurately demonstrated with data (performance monitor, dbclat etc) then it isn't doing a thing for you other than creating a very non-standard config that makes it unique enough to make solving issues (the tweaks may create) nearly impossible to track down due to that uniqueness
__________________
If it requires a null test to find it, it is by definition minuscule.

Last edited by karbomusic; 03-29-2012 at 10:03 AM.
karbomusic is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2012, 10:00 AM   #21
Geo524
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: UpState, NY
Posts: 115
Default

I'm running Windows 7 Professional (x)64. My audio PC is not connected to the internet. The only tweaks I've done was disable "core parking" and turned off UAC. Both Reaper and Sonar are running great!
__________________
Registered Reaper User: Win 7 Pro x64; Sonar X3e Pro; Reaper 4.62; AMD FX4100 3.8GHz; DDR3 1600 24GB Ram; Focusrite Scarlett 18i20; 3 x 1TB and 1 x 640 GB HDD;Mackie HR 624; KRK RP5 G2 Rokit Monitors
Geo524 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2012, 10:00 AM   #22
richie43
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 8,555
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post
I don't see why it would make a positive difference. You experience mirrors what I would expect to happen.
I have never understood this, but many many digital audio tweakers have recommended this for years. From an old Sonar site (XP days)

"Set Processor Scheduling for Background Services

Normally, Windows XP is set to give higher priority to the program that you are currently working in (the one which is focused). This would seem to make sense for DAW use, but for maximum performance set this to Background services. This allows effects, synthesizers, and everything else besides the main SONAR thread to have an equal chance at grabbing the CPU and will provide more even DAW performance.

You can give background processes priority by going to Settings | Control Panel | System, and then choosing the Advanced tab and clicking on the "Settings" button in Performance. Then click on Settings, select the Advanced tab, and select Processor Scheduling to "Background services". You will probably need to reboot to make this change take effect.

However, some say that this setting may make audio performance worse."

I think Windows 7 works great out of the box, mostly. I would imagine code writers are writing on a nearly stock computer, so go figure.... I would love to know if the Cockos devs are writing on a tweaked computer or not.
__________________
http://soundyaudio.com/ The Sounds of the Hear and Now
richie43 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2012, 10:06 AM   #23
karbomusic
Human being with feelings
 
karbomusic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 24,895
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by richie43 View Post
I have never understood this, but many many digital audio tweakers have recommended this for years. From an old Sonar site (XP days)

"Set Processor Scheduling for Background Services
Just point me to the background service we are deciding to prefer as I don't see a loaded VST as being considered a background service by Windows. Go to services.msc to see background services. Otherwise, I have never seen a real benefit based on what that setting actually does. Reaper isn't a service, its a desktop application. The closet thing to a service would be the underlying kernel driver for the audio card but I'm on the fence as to whether the a kernel driver being invoked by a user-mode app is considerd a background service (mabye kinda?). But that still would not matter until your in some situation where there is the contention to deal with and the need to make that choice IMHO. Also remember that that advice was more applicable when we were all stuck with single cores.

I'm not against being wrong on this one, but I also know there is a boat load of "Tweak your machine this way" that has been around for years that actually is either out of context, or completely misguided and other times just plain false.
__________________
If it requires a null test to find it, it is by definition minuscule.

Last edited by karbomusic; 03-29-2012 at 10:14 AM.
karbomusic is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2012, 10:14 AM   #24
bluzkat
Human being with feelings
 
bluzkat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 6,919
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post
Why? Reaper isn't a background service, its a foreground user-mode service so that setting is effectively telling the OS to give things like content-indexing or any other backround service priority over reaper. That's why foreground services are enabled by default in desktop OSs and background in servers which depend mostly on background services to service user requests etc.
Its a Windows configuration, not a Reaper configuration and after going to the Microsoft site and doing a little research of my own... I changed the setting back.

It seems this was reworked for Windows 7 and should not be necessary anymore (but is if you're still running XP). Just more stuff to like about Windows 7.


__________________
Peace...
bluzkat
bluzkat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2012, 10:34 AM   #25
karbomusic
Human being with feelings
 
karbomusic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 24,895
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluzkat View Post
Its a Windows configuration, not a Reaper configuration


Yep a Windows setting. Typically, a true background service is a service/application that starts/runs on its own without any user actually interactively logged into the machine etc.

Reading the article, the way quantums get divided between forground/background based (on each setting) is a bit complex but likely still comes into play more in server environments. I can't completely dis the Sonar suggestion, I'd just like to see real world data as the actual benefit in that scenario and the dividing line between what is foreground and what is background which is where my main disconnect comes from. I don't suspect there would be much difference between XP/Win7 but that's just a guess since all it really is is a registry setting on how to divvy up quantum slices. Could be though.
__________________
If it requires a null test to find it, it is by definition minuscule.

Last edited by karbomusic; 03-29-2012 at 11:04 AM.
karbomusic is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2012, 11:23 AM   #26
bluzkat
Human being with feelings
 
bluzkat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 6,919
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post
I don't suspect there would be much difference between XP/Win7...
Check this: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/gg465121.

__________________
Peace...
bluzkat
bluzkat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2012, 11:29 AM   #27
karbomusic
Human being with feelings
 
karbomusic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 24,895
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluzkat View Post
Do you mean the sub article? Otherwise I only saw references to when/how services start etc instead of how quantum divisions handled differently based on the performance setting between bg and fg. Please forgive me if I missed, I'd doing like 40 things that moment and will catch up later.
__________________
If it requires a null test to find it, it is by definition minuscule.
karbomusic is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2012, 11:57 AM   #28
bluzkat
Human being with feelings
 
bluzkat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 6,919
Default

Just a starting point, if you're interested.


__________________
Peace...
bluzkat
bluzkat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2012, 04:19 PM   #29
karbomusic
Human being with feelings
 
karbomusic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 24,895
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluzkat View Post
Just a starting point, if you're interested.


I'll try to give it a look later tonight. I work with it fairly deeply in this fashion all day every day so I might as well see if it is any different as far as quantum slices go between fg/bg. If its about just managing a larger number of services that are considered "in the background" from a user perspective, and how they start/stop I might already be familiar with it. Thanks for the link.
__________________
If it requires a null test to find it, it is by definition minuscule.
karbomusic is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2012, 05:21 PM   #30
karbomusic
Human being with feelings
 
karbomusic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 24,895
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluzkat View Post
Just a starting point, if you're interested.


Watched the video, wasn't too bad, thanks again. Mostly to do with smart scheduling of the starting and stopping of the services themselves. I'd code the example but my plate is a little full at the moment. I'll bookmark it for the next time I'm fiddling around with services code. Thanks!
__________________
If it requires a null test to find it, it is by definition minuscule.
karbomusic is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:47 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.