What was your biggest struggle when you started learning to mix/produce?

[Rangler]

I'm still a beginner struggling to make space for everything in the mix. EQ is really difficult for me to grasp. I listen to Nigel Godrich's records trying to figure out how everything is so clear. I just purchased MMultiAnalyser, so maybe that'll help.

I also suck at recording singers. I have a terrible space that resonates when you sing loud. The room actually buzzes and distorts when you belt out a chorus.

[OPI]

Treat your room. There are some diy plans all over the net with decent results.

Don't second guess yourself.

As long as you have decent monitors or headphones, what sounds good really is good. If your thinking you can't make enough space in the mix, force it. If forcing the mix into place makes everything sound thin, strip away some parts (assuming your the artist).

Over thinking things can really hault the learning process. You have to really trust your own judgment at this point. Unless of course you have crap monitors or speakers... Then your screwed. I recently got some akg mk2 open back phone's and their proving to be useful.. Quite cheap as well.

Also, plugins literally do not give you better mixes (which is what I always thought). I've heard incredible mixes with stock plugins supplied in reaper so just cut to the chase and just keep mixing with what you got.

[4140]

Getting the lower end right. It seems like every time I would put the CD in the car stereo or something the low end was either way too loud or Way Too Thin. Then I discovered spectral analyzer and reference tracks. Other than that I had a habit of overdoing everything putting compression EQ Reverb on every single thing and squashing the crap out of it I've learned that less is more

[karbomusic]

I listen to Nigel Godrich's records trying to figure out how everything is so clear.

Because he captured it clearly and didn't think this magic was all going to happen later in the mix phase using EQ. I mean that, if you really want to do this well, practice as hard as you can on getting it right at the source regardless of what the source or right is. Then you can work your remaining magic in the mixing phase.

Also a very important point... It isn't just the gear, or the mic placement what have you. It literally is the players, not just their playing ability but there ability to compose parts and choose tones that fit like a glove - contrast that to players who can't do this, everything is just one big repair job.

[Rangler]

Originally Posted by karbomusic

Because he captured it clearly and didn't think this magic was all going to happen later in the mix phase using EQ. I mean that, if you really want to do this well, practice as hard as you can on getting it right at the source regardless of what the source or right is. Then you can work your remaining magic in the mixing phase.

Also a very important point... It isn't just the gear, or the mic placement what have you. It literally is the players, not just their playing ability but there ability to compose parts and choose tones that fit like a glove - contrast that to players who can't do this, everything is just one big repair job.

I'm skeptical of this approach. I've looked at some of his stems and there are some extreme cuts and passes going on.

[karbomusic]

Originally Posted by Rangler

I'm skeptical of this approach. I've looked at some of his stems and there are some extreme cuts and passes going on.

That has nothing to do with capturing something clearly really, but it's fine if you are skeptical. Everybody has to figure this out one way or the other but capturing it as good as it can be will always sound more real than trying to simulate that later and will be far less work to get it sounding as it should.

[jerome_oneil]

Originally Posted by karbomusic

...if you really want to do this well, practice as hard as you can on getting it right at the source regardless of what the source or right is.

That right there was the hardest thing for me. I think at heart we are all gear-heads to one degree or another. You have to abandon that and come to understand that what you are doing when you are mixing is to a large degree making up for failures in the original recording.

[karbomusic]

Originally Posted by jerome_oneil

That right there was the hardest thing for me. I think at heart we are all gear-heads to one degree or another. You have to abandon that and come to understand that what you are doing when you are mixing is to a large degree making up for failures in the original recording.

It is but there are far too many distractions and temptations out there to get this across well. It's the hardest thing to get good at and every single one of us will do everything we can to avoid that salient truth. It's like pulling teeth these days to get anyone to listen to this but to be fair, I didn't listen either as I used to lay awake in bed longing for the days I had EQs on every channel, only to have them and realize, they weren't the magic I thought they were. They were a godsend at improving a problem but they were never as good as not having the problem to begin with - we'll never get it perfect so there will always be eq'ing going on, but that isn't the point.

That is not directed at the OP, it's just a long-standing matter of fact.

[bladerunner]

Originally Posted by jerome_oneil

That right there was the hardest thing for me. I think at heart we are all gear-heads to one degree or another.

Yes.. try to lose the gearhead thing as soon as possible - really, that extends to an ego/crutch thing.. Most tools we have are corrective - fetishizing corrective tools is kind of a bizarre thing when you really think about it.

Probably the most useful tool to really try to master when you're first starting out is high and low pass filters. You can really get the mix together with just volume, panning and high/low pass filtering. This also helps to figure out the frequency ranges - in terms of the mix - of your instruments. You can then use this info to get things right at the source more.

[Lunar Ladder]

Originally Posted by 4140

Getting the lower end right.

This was it for me as well. Also for some reason letting too much honky 500 Hz-ish tone through, I don't know why it was such a struggle to learn to hear that during the process. I mean, I would be sanity checking a mix some time later and it was always "what, again?!" and immediately had to dial down something in the 500 Hz department. Learned to listen for it, eventually, and I think missing it had something to do with ear fatigue

[Judders]

Originally Posted by Rangler

I'm still a beginner struggling to make space for everything in the mix. EQ is really difficult for me to grasp. I listen to Nigel Godrich's records trying to figure out how everything is so clear. I just purchased MMultiAnalyser, so maybe that'll help.

No, time and experience is what's needed. It's putting in your 10,000 hours like any other skill set.

People think it's the gear that separates professionals from hobbyists. It's not, it's the sheer weight of hours put in that separate them to a large extent. That, and having mentors who can protect you from the oodles of (often well intentioned) misinformation out there.

Originally Posted by Rangler

I also suck at recording singers. I have a terrible space that resonates when you sing loud. The room actually buzzes and distorts when you belt out a chorus.

I'd say that you won't know if you suck at recording singers until you try it in a nice sounding space

[Jeffsounds]

My biggest struggle was someone asking a question that I was interested in on a forum and reading through 400 responses of people arguing that their answer was the only one that was right and never really getting an answer to the question originally asked.

[Judders]

Originally Posted by Jeffsounds

My biggest struggle was someone asking a question that I was interested in on a forum and reading through 400 responses of people arguing that their answer was the only one that was right and never really getting an answer to the question originally asked.

^^ Don't listen to this guy, my answer is the only one that is right

[karbomusic]

Originally Posted by Jeffsounds

My biggest struggle was someone asking a question that I was interested in on a forum and reading through 400 responses of people arguing that their answer was the only one that was right and never really getting an answer to the question originally asked.

^though I do think it's better to just allow each person to add their suggestions and we can just omit the argument stuff... since the chest bumping is often silly even when guilty as charged, there is something else to be aware of...

It shouldn't be that hard to tell which info makes the most sense. That's something that has existed since the beginning of time... the need to separate wheat from chaff... which cannot be escaped - it really is up to the person learning to figure out what holds water - if they can't do that, that's the first sign that they may not be cut out for whatever it is they are interested in. That's totally why I'm not over hanging out on the Brain Surgery forum.

[Bri1]

Your whole life people will tell you what you can & can't do. Getting past them is the first step to actually getting things done.

With a slight edit^ = once I got passed that^-the rest just followed.
Self mastery is an art I try to persist in developing,not just musically,but holistically.
Also having a knowing that I am all that is,that ever was,and ever will be-infinite awareness/consciousness --in the physical form.
We are all *<this>*.,and there is no "separation", is quite comforting. =) !

Look at the word 'struggle'- that's just another man made construct and self limiting belief/idea/thought pattern.
Words are just labels.
GLHF!

[Jeffsounds]

Originally Posted by karbomusic

^though I do think it's better to just allow each person to add their suggestions and we can just omit the argument stuff... since the chest bumping is often silly even when guilty as charged, there is something else to be aware of...

It shouldn't be that hard to tell which info makes the most sense. That's something that has existed since the beginning of time... the need to separate wheat from chaff... which cannot be escaped - it really is up to the person learning to figure out what holds water - if they can't do that, that's the first sign that they may not be cut out for whatever it is they are interested in. That's totally why I'm not over hanging out on the Brain Surgery forum.

Well, now this is just so much BS and you should be ashamed of yourself for even posting something so absurd!

You are right, of course. It took me a while to figure out that I just needed to "separate the wheat from the chaff" instead of banging my head trying to figure out which person's argument was most likely to be right.

[bolgwrad]

Doing it over and over and over again, then listening back to stuff done the week/month/year before and smacking my head at the rubbish I'd turned out. Then working out WHY. Gradually, the smacking gets less and the stuff gets more listenable - and generally a lot better than most of the demos you hear.

Or there's the purist 'Hi-Fi' (in the original sense) approach, which is that the engineer's job is to faithfully reproduce whatever happened in the room. In which case overlapping frequencies are going to happen.

I don't know about the 'trying to make your kitchen sound like Abbey Road Studio 2' approach.

[jpanderson80]

Good question. Here are mine:

1. Trusting that room acoustics and monitoring chain made THAT big of a difference. They do.

2. Taking the time to move the mic at tracking and getting the sound right.

[karbomusic]

Originally Posted by jpanderson80

2. Taking the time to move the mic at tracking and getting the sound right.

Yea, that's a total PIA especially when a one man show and you can't really use context as your friend. You almost have to screw it up a good number of times until you know what works.

[jpanderson80]

Yeah, that's true. And when you learn that 1 inch of mic movement is worth so much, it's really a game changer. Learning that the extra few minutes is worth it... that's especially hard when someone has paid for a whole day of session and it looks like you're fiddling with a mic too long. Sometimes those differences are not exactly discernible for others. I find it helpful to have those conversations in pre-production.


Here's another for the list:
3. Taking breaks really is important.

[Cubehog]

Originally Posted by jpanderson80

Yeah, that's true. And when you learn that 1 inch of mic movement is worth so much, it's really a game changer. Learning that the extra few minutes is worth it... that's especially hard when someone has paid for a whole day of session and it looks like you're fiddling with a mic too long. Sometimes those differences are not exactly discernible for others. I find it helpful to have those conversations in pre-production.


Here's another for the list:
3. Taking breaks really is important.

1) In my early attempts of mixing I overdid some stuff, i.e. compression, just to hear the effect. That´s where your relationship between you and your monitoring comes into play.
In mixing you are permanently evaluating components that are interweaved with each other. So one track is always in relation to all the others.

2) I try to feel what function an element has in arrangement. Sometimes all the hard work at the sounddesign phase is superfluous if it just clutters the frequency spectrum for more important stuff. Get rid of it and don´t have regrets. Millions of other ways are at your disposal in case you need some sounds to fill up the arrangement.

3) In my early days I did binge-mixing just to tell someone that I sat 12 hours straight on a mix just to show my work ethic. It wasn´t with an arrogant attitude but to "make sure" that my business partners (aka bands and singers) saw that I put quite some effort into their songs. Technically I didn´t lie, but it didn´t help the end result either. If it can keep up with other songs in that genre then noone will ask how long you sat there to make it sound right in one session.
Nowadays I mix for an hour and take a break. I try to establish a sound for one instrument group. If I´ve lost the "overall vision" of a track I take a break. This can happen after 10 minutes. I don´t force it and in most of the cases it pays off big time.

4) In my early days I started with the drums and the kick drum at the very first.
Nowadays I start with the vocals, because people can recognize changes there the most. If the vocals sound nice in the beginning everything else will follow them. Most of the time they have the most complex harmonic structure and modulation in one track. If you have backings then there´s even more to consider. Compared to this drums are easy because usually there´s one clear purpose for one instrument. A hihat can´t be a substitute for a kick or snare.
I picked the vocals for this example if you have an instrument soloist than you can start with this.

Usually I do the basses at the last stage. But I do d´n´b type stuff so there´s a lot of modulation going on. In a rock context I focus a lot on the kick - bass guitar relationship. Maybe establish this at first before I proceed with the snare.

I don´t have rules and nowadays I only start mixing when I have a clear vision of the sound in my head. See 3)

[Pinknoise]

Originally Posted by Rangler

I'm still a beginner struggling to make space for everything in the mix. EQ is really difficult for me to grasp. I listen to Nigel Godrich's records trying to figure out how everything is so clear. I just purchased MMultiAnalyser, so maybe that'll help.

I also suck at recording singers. I have a terrible space that resonates when you sing loud. The room actually buzzes and distorts when you belt out a chorus.

One of the tough things I found when starting, is figuring out what needs to be EQed. Boxiness, rumble, fizz, etc. Does'nt make much sense when starting. Eventually you just know where it is and throw an EQ right on the spot without thinking. The ears eventually does the job instead of the learned 'principles'.

[g4greg]

For me, it was:

the darn mic position!

as a one man show, mic placement was a PITA I avoided at all costs till someone on the reaper forum mentioned using a super long delay while muting the direct monitoring to actually hear what the mic is recording.

so you can move the mic without having to mess with the damn DAW.

That little paragraph on the reaper forum changed my life, and i will never thank you enough.

within a few months I went from "dude, everything sounds like you recorded them in a cardboard box" to "Whoa dude, that acoustic guitar sounds sweet!"

And yes, mic placement is more important than any EQ. One of my good friends once said:" in an ideal world, EQ is only there to enhance the good, and cut unnecessary frequencies". It shouldn't be used as a magic fixing tool.

[Rangler]

Originally Posted by g4greg

… using a super long delay while muting the direct monitoring to actually hear what the mic is recording.

so you can move the mic without having to mess with the damn DAW.

Can you elaborate on this concept? I don't quite understand.

[g4greg]

Originally Posted by Rangler

Can you elaborate on this concept? I don't quite understand.

Let's say you're recording acoustic guitar. on the track you're recording on, put one instance of readalay. Then, dial in a super long delay time (like 5-7 seconds.) with only one tap.. you only want it to repeat once.

Then, you set the "dry" signal at zero, leaving only the "wet" signal on.

the result of this is that what you play will go out of the monitors (or in my case, headphones) 5-7seconds later. So you play a couple licks, stop playing and actually listen to how it sounds. Then you move the mic accordingly. Then you play again.

All that without having to touch your damn computer. So you can focus on how your mic sounds. This technique is also really cool to find the sweet spot in a room for vocalists and such.


For recording drums, this technique is actually priceless, since you don't have to cope with the very loud drums.

[planetnine]

It might have been me.

I use delays when dealing with drum and guitar mic positions for problematic sources when I'm setting up for live sound checks, especially if we've got time because they want it recording. It's hard to get enough separation in this situation on-stage otherwise.

I once used four mics in a kick drum to get a point across about why I "fiddle" with mic positions (it "can't make a difference" because the source sound is "loud enough not to") -somebody learned something here, as I made them live with their recording for several days with "their" mic position before substituting in my choice.

What I really want is a motorised mic stand for kick drums I can operate from FOH.



>

[karbomusic]

Originally Posted by planetnine

What I really want is a motorised mic stand for kick drums I can operate from FOH.



>

They make one but not sure about kick drums.

[Rangler]

Thanks, g4greg. That's a neat trick.

[bucca]

Originally Posted by Rangler

What was your biggest struggle when you started learning to mix/produce.

not to cut anything at all prior pre-production