Old 08-11-2020, 07:12 AM   #121
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Here is an illustration of why auto-crossfades are not supported with area selection. This is a regular media item edit, followed by an area selection edit that, unlike in the public builds, does an auto-crossfade when the edit is complete.


Last edited by schwa; 08-11-2020 at 07:19 AM.
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Old 08-11-2020, 07:17 AM   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bolgwrad View Post
Maybe the command should just be, 'Create selection'. Then you can add to it, include/exclude tracks/items/groups/fades/automations/envelopes as desired, and then say, "Ok, this is an all-track loop", or "Ok, this is a track-specific (savable?) block".

Is it currently possible, I wonder, to copy/cut everything (envelopes, fades, FX) EXCEPT the base item to another item? (Edit) Obv, you can do that and delete the duplicate, but a specific command set would be awesome.
sorry I didn't understand what you said....

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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
Here is an illustration of why auto-crossfades are not supported with area selection. This is a regular media item edit, followed by an area selection edit that, unlike in the public builds, does an auto-crossfade when the edit is complete.

Hi schwa thx for the reply(just seen it now), so it is because after it is moved the other item will be in the area selection also? it makes sense.

so in "lanes view" if area selection could be vertically independent inside a track then you could make changes not trimming and with autocrosfade, i think. Not a FR just a thought hahaha.

Last edited by daniellumertz; 08-11-2020 at 07:36 AM.
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Old 08-11-2020, 07:27 AM   #123
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For us users who are prefering to use left drag for AS, i think that at some point it's going to be so difficult to have all the modifiers available for all contexts.
Users who prefer using right drag, already have an empty space for AS modifiers since they can split mouse behaviors to both left-right drag, but for users who are going to use left drag only with AS, it's going to be hard to combine all AS functions for all contexts together with the rest behaviors from other contexts.
AS left drag modifiers for envelope contexts are still missing, to add to selection etc, but even though this or more modifiers will be added, it's going to be so difficult to maintain all thebehaviors for all contexts.

Having tools wpuld be so great and i'm fully supporting this because for the ease of use they're going to offer.
I'm hoping very much that at some point left drag users can make their tools, so left drag users can have all of the power that Reaper offers.

PLEASE Devs, just let users make their own tools by exporting mouse modifier presets as actions, or somehow to load mousemap presets in actions..
It will change a lot the workflow for many users who are prefering working this way imo and it won't break other workflows.
Then users could combine one or the other, or both methods as they wish.
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Old 08-11-2020, 08:03 AM   #124
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Originally Posted by schwa View Post
Here is an illustration of why auto-crossfades are not supported with area selection. This is a regular media item edit, followed by an area selection edit that, unlike in the public builds, does an auto-crossfade when the edit is complete.

Thanks, I included fades for completeness, sorry if the meaning was lost. Fading an item with the mouse L/drag is perfectly intuitive anyway, and the X-fade (Alt+X) toggle command is on the default toolbar. I wouldn't expect AS support of auto X-fades to be a requirement.
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Old 08-11-2020, 09:11 AM   #125
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I'm hoping very much that at some point left drag users can make their tools, so left drag users can have all of the power that Reaper offers.
I agree and I think especially with AS now would be a good time to address this. Because doing anything else is just piecemeal and incomplete.

If you want to have default settings for mouse modifiers, that's fine. But instead of just allowing certain mouse modifiers, you should be completing them so the user can customize according to their workflow.

Some modifiers have left click/left drag. Some don't. Some modifiers allow you to run an action, some don't. Some modifiers only allow a limited set of functions.

Now is the time to overhaul this. Not only does it allow the user to truly customize their workflow, it means that the devs don't have to continually address this and make piecemeal changes which is a pain in the ass for everyone.

And like I've continually said, left-drag options aren't just about user preference. It's an ergonomic issue. Right-drag is very awkward on some devices and not really possible at all on others. So, to reinforce this workflow means people are literally going to hurt themselves and that is no joke. As a pianist who has had hand/wrist/arm problems it's serious. And the worst thing you can do is take a repetitive motion that is awkward or straining and do it OVER and OVER.

I sincerely appreciate the devs have considered this and allowed for some left-drag options with AS. But let's do this right and fix this across the board because it is something that is going to keep coming up over and over, just like the repetitive strain of an awkward motion...
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Old 08-11-2020, 10:12 AM   #126
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Originally Posted by Klangfarben View Post
I agree and I think especially with AS now would be a good time to address this. Because doing anything else is just piecemeal and incomplete.

...

Now is the time to overhaul this. Not only does it allow the user to truly customize their workflow, it means that the devs don't have to continually address this and make piecemeal changes which is a pain in the ass for everyone.
Completely agreed! It’s the perfect time to take care of it now. Otherwise it will bounce back many times, over and over again...
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Old 08-12-2020, 04:46 AM   #127
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Originally Posted by Vagelis View Post
PLEASE Devs, just let users make their own tools by exporting mouse modifier presets as actions, or somehow to load mousemap presets in actions..

1. Save modifiers for all contexts so you can restore if something goes wrong.

2. Run this script. Script saves modifiers for selected contexts and adds preset to action list.


Code:
--[[
	Author: Embass
	v0.1 (beta)
		
	shortcuts:
	'Esc' unselects all contexts
	'a' selects all contexts
--]]

ui_contexts = {
	-- you can change order.. 

	{"MM_CTX_TRACK","Track: Left drag"},	
	{"MM_CTX_TRACK_CLK","Track: Left click"},
	{"MM_CTX_TRACK_DBLCLK","Track: Left double click"},

	{"MM_CTX_ITEM","Media item top: Left drag"},
	{"MM_CTX_ITEM_CLK","Media item top: Left click"},
	{"MM_CTX_ITEM_DBLCLK","Media item top: Left double click"},

	{"MM_CTX_ITEMLOWER", "Media item bottom: Left drag"},
	{"MM_CTX_ITEMLOWER_CLK", "Media item bottom: Left click"},
	{"MM_CTX_ITEMLOWER_DBLCLK", "Media item bottom: Left double click"},

	{"MM_CTX_ITEMEDGE", "Media item edge: Left drag"},
	{"MM_CTX_ITEMEDGE_DBLCLK", "Media item edge: Left double click"},

	{"MM_CTX_AREASEL","Area selection: Left drag"},	
	{"MM_CTX_AREASEL_CLK","Area selection: Left click"},	

	{"MM_CTX_AREASEL_EDGE","Area selection edge: Left drag"},	

	{"MM_CTX_ARRANGE_RMOUSE","Arrrange: Right drag"},
	{"MM_CTX_ARRANGE_MMOUSE_CLK","Arrrange: Middle click"},
	{"MM_CTX_ARRANGE_MMOUSE","Arrrange: Middle drag"},

	-- you can add other contexts here.. 
	-- context name from reaper-mouse.ini file
}

script_dir = debug.getinfo(1,'S').source:match([[^@?(.*[\/])[^\/]-$]])
function print(value) reaper.ShowConsoleMsg(tostring(value)..'\n') end
-- https://gist.github.com/justnom/9816256
function table_to_string(tbl)
    local result = "{"
    for k, v in pairs(tbl) do
        if type(k) == "string" then result = result.."[\""..k.."\"]".."=" end
        if type(v) == "table" then result = result..table_to_string(v)
        elseif type(v) == "boolean" then result = result..tostring(v)
        else result = result.."\""..v.."\""
        end
        result = result..","
    end
    if result ~= "" then result = result:sub(1, result:len()-1) end
    return result.."}"
end
function set_color(r,g,b,alpha) gfx.set(r/256, g/256, b/256,alpha,0) end
function rgb_to_numb(red, green, blue) return red + green * 256 + blue * 256 * 256 end
gfx.setfont(1, "Arial", 16)
context_y, context_h, save_button_h = 0, 20, 25
function draw_ui()
	local context_y = context_y
	for i, context_info in ipairs(ui_contexts) do
		local sel = context_info[3]
		if sel then set_color(50,200,200,1) else set_color(200,200,200,1) end
		gfx.rect(0,context_y,gfx.w, context_h)
		set_color(50,50,50,1)
		gfx.line(0,context_y+context_h-1,gfx.w,context_y+context_h-1,1)
		local context_name = context_info[2]
		set_color(50,50,50,1)
		gfx.x, gfx.y = 10,context_y+1
		gfx.drawstr(context_name)
		context_y = context_y + context_h
	end
	set_color(50,50,50,1)
	gfx.rect(0,gfx.h-save_button_h,gfx.w, save_button_h)
	set_color(200,200,200,1)
	gfx.x, gfx.y = 0, gfx.h - save_button_h
	gfx.drawstr("Save mouse modifiers for selected contexts",5,gfx.w,gfx.h)
end
function save_mouse_modifiers_for_selected_contexts()
	local mouse_modifiers, count = {}, 0
	for i, context_info in ipairs(ui_contexts) do
		if context_info[3] then mouse_modifiers[context_info[1]] = {}; count = count + 1 end
	end
	if count == 0 then return end -- exit
	for context, mouse_modifiers in pairs(mouse_modifiers) do
		for i = 1, 16 do
			table.insert(mouse_modifiers, reaper.GetMouseModifier(context, i-1, ""))
		end
	end
	local str_mouse_modifiers = table_to_string(mouse_modifiers)
	local lua_code = "local str_mouse_modifiers = [["..str_mouse_modifiers.."]]"..[[

local mouse_modifiers = load("return"..str_mouse_modifiers)()
for context, mouse_modifiers in pairs(mouse_modifiers) do
	for i = 1, 16 do reaper.SetMouseModifier(context, i-1, mouse_modifiers[i]) end
end]]
	local ret_val, preset_name = reaper.GetUserInputs("Add preset to action list", 1, "Preset name", "")
	if ret_val == false or preset_name == "" then return end -- exit
	local file_path = script_dir..preset_name..".lua"
	if not reaper.file_exists(file_path) then
		local file = io.open(file_path, "w")
		file:write(lua_code); file:close()
		local ret_val = reaper.AddRemoveReaScript(true, 0, file_path, true)
		if ret_val == 0 then print("Failed to add..") end
	else
		print("File with name '"..preset_name.."' already exist."); print("Dir: "..script_dir)
	end
end
function on_left_down(mouse_x, mouse_y)
	if mouse_y > gfx.h - save_button_h then save_mouse_modifiers_for_selected_contexts(); return end -- exit
	local index = math.floor(mouse_y/context_h) + 1; if ui_contexts[index] == nil then return end -- exit
	if ui_contexts[index][3] then ui_contexts[index][3] = false else ui_contexts[index][3] = true end -- toggle sel
end
function main()
	local char = gfx.getchar()
	if gfx.mouse_cap & 1 == 1 then
		if not _left_flag then _left_flag = true; on_left_down(gfx.mouse_x, gfx.mouse_y) end
	else 
		_left_flag = false 
	end
	-- shortcuts
	if char ~= 0 then
		if char == 27 then -- 'Esc' unselect all contexts
			for i, context_info in ipairs(ui_contexts) do
				context_info[3] = false
			end
		elseif char == 97 then -- 'a' select all contexts
			for i, context_info in ipairs(ui_contexts) do
				context_info[3] = true
			end
		elseif char == -1 then
			return -- terminate script
		end
	end
	draw_ui(); gfx.update()
	reaper.defer(main)
end
local main_w, main_h = 280, 400
gfx.init("Save mouse modifiers v0.1", main_w, main_h,0,300,200) -- open gui
gfx.clear = rgb_to_numb(200,200,200) -- bg color
main()
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Old 08-12-2020, 09:34 AM   #128
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Wow Embass this is amazing and just what i had in mind,thank you very much for creating this script!
As i dont have any experience with reascript, can you provide me a list where i can see the modifiers and behaviours so i could add them in the script?

BTW great that it has a gui where we can save the presets, is it possible to change the behaviors and modifiers straight from the script GUI as well, instead of adding the commands in the script? It would be so cool

Still i hope to see this native at some point, because people like me who don't have experience with scripting or new users who wanna find easier a way to change their tools, would help them a lot.

Thanks again!
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Old 08-12-2020, 10:26 AM   #129
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AS is cooking on gas: With 6.13dev0812 We now have "Set AS to selected items" (except crash when nothing selected, devs aware), which means you can now, with the SWS action 'set time selection to item' (but add 'clear TS first') select items, set them as TS or AS or both, or clear either. This is powerful - and the only mouse action is r/drag selection.
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Old 08-13-2020, 01:38 AM   #130
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Move One area Edge is to be used horizontally only ?
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Old 08-13-2020, 05:45 AM   #131
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LOL 😂
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Old 08-14-2020, 12:14 AM   #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bolgwrad View Post
AS is cooking on gas: With 6.13dev0812 We now have "Set AS to selected items" (except crash when nothing selected, devs aware), which means you can now, with the SWS action 'set time selection to item' (but add 'clear TS first') select items, set them as TS or AS or both, or clear either. This is powerful - and the only mouse action is r/drag selection.
Yes!! But now we need the opposite too.. set selected items to area selection. And perhaps an option to link area selection with marquee selection.
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Old 08-14-2020, 09:18 AM   #133
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Originally Posted by sonictim View Post
Yes!! But now we need the opposite too.. set selected items to area selection. And perhaps an option to link area selection with marquee selection.
I've got that going with Ctrl+E, except of course the AS is one big rectangle and not the individual items. Early days.
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Old 08-14-2020, 12:57 PM   #134
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In real life, practical uses, what is the case for supporting area selections at multiple time positions simultaneously?
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Old 08-14-2020, 02:02 PM   #135
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Quote:
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In real life, practical uses, what is the case for supporting area selections at multiple time positions simultaneously?
Im not sure to be honest. It seems cool in theory, but I can't think of real world situation where I would want to use multiple non-contigous selections at once, and it seems like it could make for a lot of corner cases and annoying conditional behaviors.
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Old 08-14-2020, 02:31 PM   #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
In real life, practical uses, what is the case for supporting area selections at multiple time positions simultaneously?
We hoped you'll implement non-contiguous playback using area selection.
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Old 08-14-2020, 02:49 PM   #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
In real life, practical uses, what is the case for supporting area selections at multiple time positions simultaneously?


(Yes I sometimes do that editing step in real life for dirty recorded vocals e.g. )
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Old 08-14-2020, 02:50 PM   #138
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Originally Posted by nofish View Post
(Yes I sometimes do that editing step in real life for dirty recorded vocals e.g. )
And it's a big disadvantage to have to select, delete, select, delete, rather than select, select, delete ?
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Old 08-14-2020, 02:59 PM   #139
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well. I like it supporting multiple times, I have done something similar to nofish this week, very usefull i think....
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Old 08-14-2020, 03:01 PM   #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
In real life, practical uses, what is the case for supporting area selections at multiple time positions simultaneously?
This could be useful in the future, for the simultaneous adjustment of envelopes in different areas. Or if we have access to the AS API, then scripts processing short areas of audio or midi at the same time without cutting items.Just thoughts..
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Old 08-14-2020, 03:04 PM   #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vitalker View Post
We hoped you'll implement non-contiguous playback using area selection.
Not something I think would use much personally, but this is a pretty neat idea.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nofish View Post


(Yes I sometimes do that editing step in real life for dirty recorded vocals e.g. )
Yeah, deleting multiple areas at once was the closest example I could come up with in my head, but as Schwa said, if I were to actually do this I would probably just delete each section one at a time before drawing the next one. It feels more natural to me that way, and with one hand on the mouse and the other hovering over the delete key it's really not any slower. Also not to veer off topic too much, but in the specifc example show in this gif it would be much faster to use the auto-trim/remove silence action.
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Old 08-14-2020, 03:07 PM   #142
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And it's a big disadvantage to have to select, delete, select, delete, rather than select, select, delete ?
That's exactly the point I wanted to bring across, it's only one delete instead of after each select.
Of course I could get along with it in pre AS era also, so rather 'would be a nice workflow enhancement' than 'big disadvantage'.
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Old 08-14-2020, 03:11 PM   #143
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Originally Posted by RobinGShore View Post
Not something I think would use much personally, but this is a pretty neat idea.
It's already used in some DAWs. Instead of soloing/muting tracks/items, you just select what you need and play it. Useful? As hell.
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Old 08-14-2020, 03:13 PM   #144
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Originally Posted by vitalker View Post
It's already used in some DAWs. Instead of soloing/muting tracks/items, you just select what you need and play it. Useful? As hell.
Yeah, that does sound cool. Are there are other DAWs that have non-contiguous area selection? I don't think I've ever seen it anywhere else.
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Old 08-14-2020, 03:13 PM   #145
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but what are the pros to make it non multiple times?

other things may be for scripts in the future, when comes an api for it i think

Quote:
Originally Posted by vitalker View Post
It's already used in some DAWs. Instead of soloing/muting tracks/items, you just select what you need and play it. Useful? As hell.
this seems cool!!!! +1
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Old 08-14-2020, 03:31 PM   #146
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Originally Posted by RobinGShore View Post
Yeah, that does sound cool. Are there are other DAWs that have non-contiguous area selection? I don't think I've ever seen it anywhere else.
Studio one. I'm not sure the video is relevant, but it's how it can look like. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5u4xZ-MO2A
If someone uses it, please show a better example.
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Old 08-14-2020, 03:33 PM   #147
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this seems cool!!!! +1
Yeah, like time selection, but non-contiguous on both axes.
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Old 08-14-2020, 03:40 PM   #148
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And it's a big disadvantage to have to select, delete, select, delete, rather than select, select, delete ?
Yes, because when all parts are selected, you are still able to adjust them, before deleting.
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Old 08-14-2020, 03:47 PM   #149
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And it's a big disadvantage to have to select, delete, select, delete, rather than select, select, delete ?
Yes, it most definitely is.

Furthermore, not being able to do that takes away the ability to copy only certain parts of an arrangement.

Say I want to copy the into and outro brass and woodwinds and copy it into a new section where strings are playing. I don't want to copy the strings because the strings are playing a new part. I don't want to copy the main section of brass and woods because it doesn't match what the strings are playing.

So you area select the brass and woods intro, you area select the brass and woods outro and copy it to the new strings section. This is a basic functionality of AS and it would severely hurt user workflow to have to do AS "one at a time".
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Old 08-14-2020, 03:51 PM   #150
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but what are the pros to make it non multiple times?
Hopefully Schwa will chime in with more details about whatever problem he's running into, but it's not hard to imagine situations where having multiple selections could cause problems. A quick example off the top of my head: Recently theres been some discussion about adding the ability to extend the current selection via mouse click. How would this work if you clicked between two selections? How does Reaper know which selection to extend in this case? Would it make the earlier selection end later, or would it make the later selection start sooner?
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Old 08-14-2020, 04:02 PM   #151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klangfarben View Post
Furthermore, not being able to do that takes away the ability to copy only certain parts of an arrangement.
Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
In real life, practical uses, what is the case for supporting area selections at multiple time positions simultaneously?
Multiple ASs at the same time position i.e. this

would still be possible iiuschwac so your scenario would still be possible I think, just not in one go (copying intro + outro simultaniously).

Last edited by nofish; 08-14-2020 at 04:08 PM.
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Old 08-14-2020, 04:06 PM   #152
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In real life, practical uses, what is the case for supporting area selections at multiple time positions simultaneously?
Say you have Multiple Area Selections... and you need to move/copy them all in tandem to a 16th note grid. How tedious would it be to do that separately for each area keeping their exact offset??

Same for MIDI.


This would be hugely important for me.

Also being able to (for example) then apply Trim Silence to all ASs... etc...

It would be a big letdown (personally) if Area Selection was not capable of multiple selections. My 2 cents <3
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Old 08-14-2020, 04:07 PM   #153
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Hopefully Schwa will chime in with more details about whatever problem he's running into, but it's not hard to imagine situations where having multiple selections could cause problems. A quick example off the top of my head: Recently theres been some discussion about adding the ability to extend the current selection via mouse click. How would this work if you clicked between two selections? How does Reaper know which selection to extend in this case? Would it make the earlier selection end later, or would it make the later selection start sooner?
Maybe extend area could be supported only when one area is being created. Else makes no sense when there are multiple areas and you want to extend a specific area.
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Old 08-14-2020, 04:10 PM   #154
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Originally Posted by Thonex View Post
Say you have Multiple Area Selections... and you need to move/copy them all in tandem to a 16th note grid. How tedious would it be to do that separately for each area keeping their exact offset??

Same for MIDI.


This would be hugely important for me.

Also being able to (for example) then apply Trim Silence to all ASs... etc...

It would be a big letdown (personally) if Area Selection was not capable of multiple selections. My 2 cents <3
These are both excellent use case examples of why it is really necessary.
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Old 08-14-2020, 04:18 PM   #155
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...makes no sense when there are multiple areas and you want to extend a specific area.
Which is exactly my point. Once you start getting into situations where it should behave one way with a single area selection, but another way with multiple selections, things get confusing and messy. I'm not necessarily saying that multiple area selections shouldn't be supported, there's been several good use cases presented here, but I do think there are some trade offs that people might be overlooking. A lot of people have been saying they want to use area selection for things that are currently done with time selection (myself included), but a lot of the current time selection behavior would break when multiple selections are involved.
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Old 08-14-2020, 04:25 PM   #156
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With multiple areas, i find very useful to split multiple parts on the arrange, then copy, delete or move them. Maybe trim in some situations.

If the problem is with multiple areas and adding to selection or extend areas, just remove those when multiple areas exist. It would be great if at least multiple areas could support split, delete, copy, trim.
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Old 08-14-2020, 04:34 PM   #157
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Which is exactly my point. Once you start getting into situations where it should behave one way with a single area selection, but another way with multiple selections, things get confusing and messy. I'm not necessarily saying that multiple area selections shouldn't be supported, there's been several good use cases presented here, but I do think there are some trade offs that people might be overlooking. A lot of people have been saying they want to use area selection for things that are currently done with time selection (myself included), but a lot of the current time selection behavior would break when multiple selections are involved.
Honestly, I think this is a matter of addressing the core functionality here and however long it takes is however long it takes. I honestly thought Schwa was joking when he posted asking for use cases because it's just such an inherent part of AS.

If there are issues with multiple selections, or performing actions on selected areas or conflicts with previous behavior and/or time selection, my thoughts would be it's time to get deep under the hood and figure this out, even if it means some of the current work would have to be re-implemented and that we have to wait.

Same with the left-drag mouse modifiers aspect of this. These kinds of issues are only going to get worse going forward, so if it takes a mouse modifier overhaul to play nice, then now is the time to do it. Yes, it's not sexy. Yes, we would have to wait, but the alternative is we get a half-finished AS implementation that only works for basic functions. For those of us who have been lobbying for AS for years, this is not what we are looking for.

So, like I said earlier, if it takes time to go under the hood and rebuild the engine, that's fine. We'll wait.
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Old 08-14-2020, 04:36 PM   #158
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For envelopes, multiple areas would be useful if it was possible to edit(move up or down) multiple values at the same time, e.g volume envelope. Of course also to delete,copy.

Last edited by Vagelis; 08-14-2020 at 04:46 PM.
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Old 08-14-2020, 05:23 PM   #159
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In real life, practical uses, what is the case for supporting area selections at multiple time positions simultaneously?
I feel like a lot of people are misreading this.
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Old 08-14-2020, 05:25 PM   #160
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I feel like a lot of people are misreading this.
Did you read my comments perhaps?
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