Old 06-18-2013, 06:55 PM   #161
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Lol. Get a couple of these and your life will be easier, especially for tracing of jungles of wiring but also for checking polarity.
Hehe... On a stage with a guitar pedal, its all tongue baby. I have nice meters in the studio but I'm not sure a meter will confirm that the speaker moves forward when I apply what appears to be proper polarity via DC voltage to the speaker inputs? The point of the battery is that causes the speaker to excurse forward or backwards where forward is proper polarity.

Or these days with software tone generators a low level 1 hz tone to both while touching them (to confirm they move forward and together) assuming it isn't filtered by the crossover which these days also likely will be.

Last edited by karbomusic; 06-18-2013 at 07:02 PM.
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Old 06-18-2013, 07:02 PM   #162
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...its all tongue baby.
That sounds like the punch line of a really dirty joke.
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Old 08-04-2013, 03:00 PM   #163
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'argh! it's polarity not phase!'

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!

Once upon a time some way IGNORANT idiot with too much influence used the word PHASE instead of the CORRECT word, POLARITY.

Now, even way expensive audio hardware uses PHASE when ACTUALLY swapping the positive and negative wires. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Polarity: referenced to the source's positive and negative "physical" connections.

Phase: the position of an audio WAVE's start point in relationship to a reference WAVE.

The use of PHASE for ALL DAWS is incorrect.


Words are all we have to communicate. When the wrong word is used clarity is debilitated.

Wars start because of stupid language.


Would be great if Reaper would reflect real science, instead what everybody thinks is OK.
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Old 08-04-2013, 03:42 PM   #164
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Undoubtably, when you press 'that button' it inverts the polarity, but when we do it we almost certainly do it because we want to change the phase relationship of that channel in relation to other channels. I always thought that was the reason it was called 'phase'. I couldn't care less what it's called really, I know why it does and why I would want to use it
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Old 08-04-2013, 04:11 PM   #165
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Undoubtably, when you press 'that button' it inverts the polarity, but when we do it we almost certainly do it because we want to change the phase relationship of that channel in relation to other channels.
No we don't. If we want to change the phase relationship, we slide one of the items back and forth.
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Old 08-04-2013, 04:14 PM   #166
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No we don't. If we want to change the phase relationship, we slide one of the items back and forth.
So, say I have some multi-mic drum recordings and I press the offending button on the kick channel, are you saying I have not changed the phase relationship? What would you say that I have done, other than invert the polarity of that one channel, how would you describe how I have changed its relationship with the other tracks?

Last edited by Stu; 08-04-2013 at 04:21 PM. Reason: Correcting rubbish auto-correct
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Old 08-04-2013, 04:35 PM   #167
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Not to sound flippant, but all you have done is invert the polarity of one track. You haven't changed any phase relationships, because you haven't changed the start time of anything.
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Old 08-04-2013, 04:39 PM   #168
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Not to sound flippant, but all you have done is invert the polarity of one track. You haven't changed any phase relationships, because you haven't changed the start time of anything.
Ok I'll phrase it differently;

I pull up some multi-mic drum recordings and discover that the kick sounds hollow and lacking, a bit distant. I press the button commonly known as 'phase', and my kick drum now sounds full and present.

How would you describe the change I have made to the relationship between the multi miced drum tracks?
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Old 08-04-2013, 04:47 PM   #169
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Reversing the polarity of the kick has caused the peaks and troughs to become more congruent? I don't know how to work the semantics.

I do know this: if you could actually adjust the phase with something like Little Labs' IBP: http://www.littlelabs.com/ibp.html you'd achieve a better result. Of course with an analog phase tool you can only retard a track, not move it forward in time.
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Old 08-04-2013, 05:07 PM   #170
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Reversing the polarity of the kick has caused the peaks and troughs to become more congruent? I don't know how to work the semantics.

I do know this: if you could actually adjust the phase with something like Little Labs' IBP: http://www.littlelabs.com/ibp.html you'd achieve a better result. Of course with an analog phase tool you can only retard a track, not move it forward in time.
Well that's as good a description as any, and it can also be applied to actually changing the phase relationship by regarding or advancing one of the tracks - you would be making the peaks and troughs more congruent.

Another way to look at it perhaps would be that when I press the button I am compensating for a sub-optimal phase relationship, which implies that with one or several tracks inverted, the phase relationship is improved, more congruent.

At any rate, whilst it is technically wrong to call it a phase button I can see why people did, do and will call it that.
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Old 08-04-2013, 05:23 PM   #171
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If you take a signal and invert it by 180 degrees, you have both inverted it's polarity as well as it's phase. Both are true, I don't know why people think that one description must be wrong.

Reverse Polarity or Reverse Phase, take your pick I can't see this confusing anyone even if you use both in the same sentence.
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Old 08-06-2013, 12:55 AM   #172
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Not to sound flippant, but all you have done is invert the polarity of one track. You haven't changed any phase relationships, because you haven't changed the start time of anything.
Phase shift is not time shift, wait that has already be mentioned in this thread: http://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php...8&postcount=52

Seriously just because you can not grasp the concept of phase doesn't mean the whole technical world must dump down its terminology. Otherwise we soon end up with calling a snare drum a "bum bum" a bass drum a "boom boom" a guitar a "clang clang".
Technically phase inversion is correct, as is polarity inversion for that matter, though no console of the last 100 years uses the terminology of polarity inversion.

You wanna go a wrath against hamburger (no ham in there nor originated from Hamburg), eggplant (no egg in there), French fries (not invented in France), guinea pig (neither from Guinea nor a pig), also people drive on a parkway and park on a driveway, ...
You are acting like a child "Me Wants! Me Wants!"
Please leave the phase button alone!

EDIT: Anyone who has "phase" and "start time" and/or "reference wave" in the same sentence does not know what they are talking about. A phase shift is not a time shift. Mathematical proof for that has been given in this thread before. So again just because you don't understand the current terminology does not mean it needs to be dumped down!
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