Old 09-22-2009, 11:27 AM   #1
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Default Track Icons to the LEFT

Track Icons RIGHT



Track Icons LEFT



A quick mockup showing track icons on Left.

I've removed the record arm function this would become visable when tracks hights are enlarged.

Somthing like this....




This layout would allow for the most versatile track sizes
It would be compatable with all current themes
And eliminate the cluttered look when using folders and track icons.
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Old 09-22-2009, 12:37 PM   #2
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icons meant to be in the right side to help you recognize the track as fast as possible...

I prefer this:
[img]http://img186.**************/img186/1934/52842709.png[/img]
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Old 09-22-2009, 12:54 PM   #3
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"Think out side the box"
" You only Like them Like that because thats what your used to"

Sound familiar

The tcp works better this way with no modification to anyones themes .

Yore Mockup is no good . It only shows one size your size which is now bigger than when it started.

What is WRONG with track icons on the left , try and be percifik.....
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Old 09-22-2009, 01:00 PM   #4
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Why not have it as an option in Theme tab of Properties? "Track icons to the left/right"...
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Old 09-22-2009, 01:17 PM   #5
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[IMG]http://img8.**************/img8/1839/reaper4iconsleft1.png[/IMG]
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Old 09-22-2009, 01:30 PM   #6
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Sorry, Reflected, I have to agree with OP here... I'd rather have left-aligned icons, but resulting in evenly aligned Mute/Solo buttons and io/env/fx.


Especially his second mockup interests me. I like the volume/pan behind channel name idea.
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Old 09-22-2009, 01:52 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Sorry, Reflected, I have to agree with OP here...
nothing to be sry about...this is what brainstorming is all about...


anyway, here the first mockup with a folder track.

[img]http://img252.**************/img252/6332/folder2.png[/img]
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Old 09-22-2009, 01:57 PM   #8
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Thank you . Evil Dragon .

The only problem I see is for people wanting to arm 20 tracks at once but I assume this is a very small minority .

Reflected this is only a quick mock up I would hope the devs would align everything properly now the icons are out the way.

Options are of course great in my book thats what make reapper what it is, the ability to work the way you want. (self confessed macro addict, moder)
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Old 09-24-2009, 12:00 PM   #9
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jedstar2000, I like that lefty approach more as well.

As far as arming a bunch of tracks, I'd just select them and hit a clever action trigger. Xenakios made an action for it, not the Cockos devs. Hmm.

Anyway, the alignment problems are minor, though I'd rather seem them fixed as well.
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Old 09-24-2009, 01:46 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jedstar2000 View Post
Track Icons RIGHT



Track Icons LEFT



A quick mockup showing track icons on Left.

I've removed the record arm function this would become visable when tracks hights are enlarged.

Somthing like this....




This layout would allow for the most versatile track sizes
It would be compatable with all current themes
And eliminate the cluttered look when using folders and track icons.
+10000000

The aligned buttons and faders makes it look INCREDIBLY tidy and nice. Much better than the default behavior which ends up like a mess very quickly.

I don't like your track icons right option at all though as it breaks this nice symmetry of buttons. Actually, that picture of track icons right is the exact problem of reaper as it is now, when comparing it side by side with the track icons left picture. Just look at how "busy" the track icons right picture looks compared to the tidy track icons left one.

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Old 09-24-2009, 03:03 PM   #11
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The track icons right isn't an option. Its an actual screenshot of how reaper display track icons .

Shocking I know I see what all the fuss was about now and why I never use them all though they're so useful.

Anyway this has its own FR now http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=43197

And hears one for the other bits http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=43205

And breaking News MIDI CONTROLLABLE SENDS (working )
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=35480&page=2
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Old 09-24-2009, 07:20 PM   #12
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I don't get it... are you saying Reaper should insert empty space on all tracks that don't have a track icon, whenever there is one or more tracks that do have a track icon? Because, if that is the case, surely it doesn't matter whether it does it on the left or the right?
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Old 09-24-2009, 07:35 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by White Tie View Post
I don't get it... are you saying Reaper should insert empty space on all tracks that don't have a track icon, whenever there is one or more tracks that do have a track icon?
what is there to get, it works like this for the mixer...(for the obvious reasons)
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Old 09-24-2009, 11:28 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by White Tie View Post
I don't get it... are you saying Reaper should insert empty space on all tracks that don't have a track icon, whenever there is one or more tracks that do have a track icon? Because, if that is the case, surely it doesn't matter whether it does it on the left or the right?
The picture below shows how much extra space is needed look at the alignment of the icons above I have added but a few pixels to tidy it up.

By moving the arm button you only need steal half a buttons worth look hear.


Track 1 original track (untouched)
Track 2 is Track 1 with icons on the left the difference in size is clearly visible while keeping same fader size. The actual size needed to show track icons on the left is about half a standard button width . I would actually like to see the track color highlighted in this area as well to make it stand out a bit more.

Hope this makes sense

In fact the two pictures at the start of this page are identical tracks .You can see from the alignment with the control panel buttons above how much I've had to add.

It is also evident in the folder indent as I haven't altered that from the original

All I've really done is connect the space displaying the track number with the track icon, move the arm and then tided it up. You could infact fit the icons in the space created but it looks a bit tite
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Old 09-25-2009, 04:45 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reflected View Post
what is there to get, it works like this for the mixer...(for the obvious reasons)
So is that a yes then? And if the answer is yes, maybe you could just say 'yes'? My empty project has a blank track icon on every track, which is replaced when I pull a track icon in. If the answer is yes, done. FRing for something you can already solve yourself does you no favours sir.

jedstar2000 - I'm not really following you on the track icon thing, but I like what you've got to say about the TCP. I think it definitely needs attention at some point, and is a discussion well worth having, at length, since it would be a big step, so I would say its a case of 'do it all, do it once, do it perfect.' I am a bit hesitant about the idea of the volume control being a different thing depending on track size, such that it would appear in both forms at the same time across a project, that could cause confusion. My guess is that's a solvable issue though. IMO you should always show the arm button, not least because pressing that tells Reaper to reveal the buttons you need, so that would be a good step forwards.
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Old 09-25-2009, 05:49 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by White Tie View Post
So is that a yes then? And if the answer is yes, maybe you could just say 'yes'? My empty project has a blank track icon on every track, which is replaced when I pull a track icon in. If the answer is yes, done. FRing for something you can already solve yourself does you no favours sir.
sry I think that I don't understand you correctly...
I was trying to search for Icon in the preferences, there was nothing regarding this issue.

anyway
see the pic below, notice the separation line and the transparent numbers.
[img]http://img186.**************/img186/1934/52842709.png[/img]


now see how it works in the mixer...
[img]http://img15.**************/img15/9030/56014143.png[/img]

[img]http://img441.**************/img441/3276/78630272.png[/img]
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Old 09-25-2009, 07:04 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reflected View Post
sry I think that I don't understand you correctly...
Yes, I've noticed.

blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah good idea blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah

...requires effort to drill through to the good idea. Effort you should perhaps not necessarily expect people to bother to expend. jedstar2000 is firing a discussion here that has a lot of value. Your bit of it seems to be 90% solved by:
  • Open any track icon in a bitmap editor
  • Erase everything, or put something subtle to show its a nothing
  • save it
  • put it on every track of your default project and track templates

That leaves 10% unfulfilled. Please, I beg of you go away and do some serious thinking about what can currently be achieved and what cannot. If you think something cannot, make a serious effort first to see if it actually can. Get it clear in your head. Then think carefully about how you can communicate it in a clear and succinct way so we can all understand what you mean with minimum effort. Then, and only then, post it.

I've read a lot of your posts, and too often I come away with the feeling my time is being wasted because you've not thought about what you're saying and how you are saying it. Here I am as one person stating that I am very close to just skipping past anything you say in the future, I suspect I'm not the only one. So if you were to come up with a good idea, you would have done a disservice to both yourself and the community. Stop. Think. Think again. Then post. Please.
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Old 09-25-2009, 07:29 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by White Tie View Post
Yes, I've noticed.

blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah good idea blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah

...requires effort to drill through to the good idea. Effort you should perhaps not necessarily expect people to bother to expend. jedstar2000 is firing a discussion here that has a lot of value. Your bit of it seems to be 90% solved by:
  • Open any track icon in a bitmap editor
  • Erase everything, or put something subtle to show its a nothing
  • save it
  • put it on every track of your default project and track templates

That leaves 10% unfulfilled. Please, I beg of you go away and do some serious thinking about what can currently be achieved and what cannot. If you think something cannot, make a serious effort first to see if it actually can. Get it clear in your head. Then think carefully about how you can communicate it in a clear and succinct way so we can all understand what you mean with minimum effort. Then, and only then, post it.

I've read a lot of your posts, and too often I come away with the feeling my time is being wasted because you've not thought about what you're saying and how you are saying it. Here I am as one person stating that I am very close to just skipping past anything you say in the future, I suspect I'm not the only one. So if you were to come up with a good idea, you would have done a disservice to both yourself and the community. Stop. Think. Think again. Then post. Please.

If I hurt you in the past please let me know, maybe I've said something about your theme...

because it is too obvious that you are trying to come down on me ridiculously.

your solution only makes reaper more clumsy and we are trying to archive the opposite...
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Old 09-25-2009, 07:38 AM   #19
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one more thing about your sticky solution...I don't see "show/hide icons" option for tcp currently.

(answer to you next blahh blahh blahh post: 'remove' is not 'hide')
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Old 09-25-2009, 08:14 AM   #20
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Standing on jedstar2000's shoulders:

[img]http://img178.**************/img178/3756/r311dstrackicons04.png[/img]

-- keep the track icons (and the folder icons) aligned vertically where possible
-- there is more room for the track name and vol fader too
-- the folder indents will need some work
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Old 09-25-2009, 08:47 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by White Tie View Post

...requires effort to drill through to the good idea. Effort you should perhaps not necessarily expect people to bother to expend. jedstar2000 is firing a discussion here that has a lot of value. Your bit of it seems to be 90% solved by:
  • Open any track icon in a bitmap editor
  • Erase everything, or put something subtle to show its a nothing
  • save it
  • put it on every track of your default project and track templates

Stop. Think. Think again. Then post. Please.
here is your awesome solution: (still thinking...)
[img]http://img196.**************/img196/5968/wtsolution.png[/img]

however it works pretty nice for the mixer...
[img]http://img15.**************/img15/9543/notbad.png[/img]
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Old 09-25-2009, 09:01 AM   #22
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Default Try this...very similiar to the MCP's method

How about this idea? Also, when a track icon is not placed on a track (where others have icons), that track should shift right with the others to keep the alignment, just as it does in the MCP.

[img]http://img294.**************/img294/1209/trackiconsonleft.png[/img]
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Old 09-25-2009, 09:17 AM   #23
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Optional please

Icons at right side of tracks look weird imo but I fully understand the main point: buttons are not aligned when there are icons involed. I think this is the main objective in this discussion, right?

@WhiteTie: a blank/subtle icon won't solve the problem because 1) it requires the newbie to get that icon in the first place and set it as default in his templates which won't work if he tries to insert a new track with doubleclick or by Track menu and 2) if that newbie inserts those tracks in a folder things won't be aligned as Reflected just showed.

Sadly this problem needs to be solved by implementation and not using "workarounds".

EDIT: Sorry, that's not the main objective in this discussion; the OP simply wants to display icons on the left-most part the TCP. My bad. Off-topic.
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Old 09-25-2009, 09:57 AM   #24
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In reality this can work with the icons on the left or the right. Alignments must remain, regardless of whether ICONS are large, small, or not present (of course with icons on other tracks).
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Old 09-25-2009, 09:59 AM   #25
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Quote:
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In reality this can work with the icons on the left or the right. Alignments must remain, regardless of whether ICONS are large, small, or not present (of course with icons on other tracks).
That's it! thanks labyrinth
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Old 09-25-2009, 10:36 AM   #26
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the more I follow this thread, the more I realize that I am 100% ok with what reaper does now.

I have never been bothered by size dependent realignment of icons on the TCP. That said, I wouldn't spit in your eye if you were able to make it mo' better. That said... I think I prefer the icons on the right, followed only by the vertical VU

that is my 2 pennies love it or lump it.

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Old 09-25-2009, 11:47 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkStar View Post
Standing on jedstar2000's shoulders:

[img]http://img178.**************/img178/3756/r311dstrackicons04.png[/img]

-- keep the track icons (and the folder icons) aligned vertically where possible
-- there is more room for the track name and vol fader too
-- the folder indents will need some work
I really quite Like this approch after all there's no real reason the icons cant sit behind the folder indent....

Quote:
Originally Posted by White Tie View Post

IMO you should always show the arm button, not least because pressing that tells Reaper to reveal the buttons you need, so that would be a good step forwards.
The key to gaining the space hear is removing the arm button . Without that you may as well use the extra space required to display icons on the right using a blank like you've surgested .



Hears my opinion for what its worth ...

...Most people don't need to be able to arm every track .
...A track can be set to enable when selected so its easy to record on any track instantly without the use of a the arm button.
...The arm button becomes visible when tracks become bigger than the fader
and name badge....(i.e. third set of controls visible)
...Most people like to see what they are recording so do so at at lest this larger size.
....Folder tracks have arm button visible at all times for instant multitrack recording
....Folder to the left to be an option so those that don't like it or don't
want the to lose the arm function don't have to.

P.s. don't worry about the Vol/name bg thing I was just brainstorming on ways to achieve more usability on the smallest of tracks in the most optimum way but I understand this could take years or never happen so I'm not going to worry about it .

But Items left would be a simple addition for the devs i.e move arm button down move track item left add option box in prefs ...done

A full Rethink of the tcp and gui will require a new license fee i.e reaper 4
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Old 09-25-2009, 02:02 PM   #28
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Quote:
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...Most people don't need to be able to arm every track .
...A track can be set to enable when selected so its easy to record on any track instantly without the use of a the arm button.
?? how do you figure?

-- auto arm is very annoying (or it can be)
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Old 09-25-2009, 02:24 PM   #29
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jedstar, the vol on the track name is interesting, but it can be tricky vs double click to change name.
if you have a good solution for this I will also try to combine it in my mockup. (good solution for newbies...)



so far...

size proof: (minimized/medium/big]
[img]http://img185.**************/img185/4443/currently.png[/img]

[img]http://img5.**************/img5/1451/sizeproof.png[/img]

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Old 09-26-2009, 01:13 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallisman View Post
?? how do you figure?

-- auto arm is very annoying (or it can be)
Most pepole dont record on every track...

Some exsamples

Producing a record is broken down into..

....Recording
Many tracks may need to be armed but I suggest for multitrack you have a folder with all the inputs in and transfer the items recorded into the arrange page ...(only arms used in record folder)
Home producer recording one input at a time who wants to do this anyware on the arrange page can enlarge the track size so arm becomes visible and they can see the input being recorded to check for spikes signal intensity clipping.

....Arrangement additional composition

Fewer recordings are made Many tracks divide into section requiring better visual feedback.
For electronic music production or remixing you may never use an arm record function

....Mixing

Parts broken into sub groups even more concise visual feedback required to navigate mix.
No record arm track buttons required unless using outboard EFX

....Mastering

No recoding done


......................Plus arm track can be equipped to an action..........
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Old 09-26-2009, 01:37 PM   #31
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Hears 2 more pics showing the advantage of putting track icons left
and hopefully demonstrating how easy to see they can be , notice how easy it is to reference track names with track icons.

As they are now



Moved to the left



note the step on the right above track 13 . That is the space needed to be added to keep everything looking tidy.
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Old 05-05-2019, 02:29 AM   #32
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I also want the track icons to the left! Is it hard to fix this?
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Old 05-13-2019, 04:09 AM   #33
winbe
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Join Date: May 2006
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I am a bit lost here, as to show how more "tidy" things are when icons are on the left, you show us a configuration where nothing is aligned, because there is no "blank" icon.

I don't know when and where I configured this, but my tracks are always perfectly aligned, all the mute and solo buttons are aligned, thanks to a "blank" icon that shows if I did not explicitly choose one.

I had the feeling this is what @WhiteTie was explaining at some point...
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