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Old 01-27-2017, 03:45 PM   #1
Robert Johnson III
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Default iMac 5K Late 2015 and Sierra=> choppy, unresponsive GUI

Sierra and Reaper are (for me) almost unusable. Resizing Reaper goes choppy and slow, showing the mixer window takes seconds (no where near instant anyway) Selections with the Marque tool are choppy and slow etc…Using a scaled resolution and/or reduce transparency and/or a smaller Reaper window improves matters al little. The silly thing is that when I run reaper in a virtual desktop (VMware) with massive VMware CPU overhead, it runs fluid, contrary to native 5K on iMac (with all resources available). Any info from iMac 5K Late 2015 Sierra users on this?

Found this info…https://forum.qt.io/topic/59578/rend...with-retina-5k

Edit: (This post is about Reaper running on Sierra iMac 5K late 2015 27 inch Retina)
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Old 01-28-2017, 02:25 AM   #2
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Yes I have the same problems.., its very frustrating that reaper is so choppy and laggy.. its like its running at 5 fps.. hopefully Justin can explain what the issue is please!..?, is it the new metal graphics that macOS uses?.., Logic Pro x runs smooth.

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Old 01-28-2017, 03:49 AM   #3
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Thanks for the feedback! I hate the "Reaper runs fine on my system remarks" Logic Pro X is almost as bad on my iMac... (latest version) It runs smooth only in low resolution mode (invented for this reason). Marque tool works better and soms other minor differences in GUI performance.
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Old 01-28-2017, 09:00 AM   #4
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so does windows run reaper better smoother on our iMacs???.., if so I may have to go windows then sadly, I don't enjoy windows, but this gui lag in macOS is not getting better with every update apple do?.., hopefully Justin will read this and can maybe explain to us what the problem is with macOS.

.

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Old 01-28-2017, 11:58 AM   #5
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Windows has no lag at all... I also have a win10 PC (i7 6700K/Nvidia GeForce GTX 1070). If a program on iMac/Sierra runs better in virtual WinXp VMware than native OSX Sierra, something weird is going on.... or the priorities are somewhere else.
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Old 01-28-2017, 01:11 PM   #6
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Robert, you may well hate the "Reaper runs fine on my system" remarks.... but if someone is running what appears to be the same system without the problems you describe, then it may help to narrow down where the problem is.

For instance, as I posted in the other thread you've started on the same topic, I have a very similar vintage of iMac, also 5k screen, and also recently updated to Sierra. I don't see the laggy response you do, and find Reaper perfectly workable on it.

I don't say this to annoy you. I say it to try and help you pin down what is DIFFERENT on your setup and causing the problem, since it appears not to be universal to iMacs, or 5k retina displays, or OS Sierra. If you would like me to give more details of the exact config of my system, please say and I'll try to oblige.
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Old 01-28-2017, 02:28 PM   #7
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My iMac 5k had some odd video behavior until I went ahead and did a fresh/clean install of Sierra.
Works wonderful now. I even updated to 10.12.3 and I am very happy.
The funny thing is, Reaper runs smoother than Logic X on this thing. Logic gets very clunky at times.
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Old 01-28-2017, 02:31 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andyp24 View Post
Robert, you may well hate the "Reaper runs fine on my system" remarks.... but if someone is running what appears to be the same system without the problems you describe, then it may help to narrow down where the problem is.

For instance, as I posted in the other thread you've started on the same topic, I have a very similar vintage of iMac, also 5k screen, and also recently updated to Sierra. I don't see the laggy response you do, and find Reaper perfectly workable on it.

I don't say this to annoy you. I say it to try and help you pin down what is DIFFERENT on your setup and causing the problem, since it appears not to be universal to iMacs, or 5k retina displays, or OS Sierra. If you would like me to give more details of the exact config of my system, please say and I'll try to oblige.
Hi Andy, If you drag the Marquee tool on the bottom half of a wave file that is zoomed-in to make a selection, you don’t have any problems with a choppy GUI? Or if you resize the Reaper window, scroll a wave file…? Not an arrangement with one wave file but a reasonable real world scenario.

Thanks for trying to help.

I understand you are not saying "it works on my system" to annoy me but presumed there are not that much variables between similar iMac systems (hard and software). It could be perception by comparison or using Reaper in a different way?

Here are some system specs….


Model Identifier: iMac17,1
Processor Name: Intel Core i5
Processor Speed: 3,2 GHz
Memory: 24 GB
Boot ROM Version: IM171.0105.B15
Chipset Model: AMD Radeon R9 M390
VRAM (Total): 2048 MB
EFI Driver Version: 01.00.799
Metal: Supported
Display Type: Retina LCD
Resolution: 5120 x 2880 Retina
Retina: Yes
Pixel Depth: 30-Bit Color (ARGB2101010)
Attached Images
File Type: png Screen Shot 2017-01-28 at 23.35.14.png (40.0 KB, 177 views)
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Old 01-28-2017, 03:05 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lgetty View Post
My iMac 5k had some odd video behavior until I went ahead and did a fresh/clean install of Sierra.
Works wonderful now. I even updated to 10.12.3 and I am very happy.
The funny thing is, Reaper runs smoother than Logic X on this thing. Logic gets very clunky at times.
I also did a fresh Sierra install... Logic gets clunky in different places, but it has at least a low resolution mode. I suspect low(er) resolution is somewhat Reaper's default? (Just a visual observation, not that crisp on 5k compared to other DAW's)
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Old 01-28-2017, 11:34 PM   #10
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Seems the installer for Sierra is missing a couple things.
See here: http://dosdude1.com/sierrapatch.html
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Old 01-29-2017, 01:19 AM   #11
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Damn that is somewhat scary - I am a very recent convert to Macs and have a mid 2011 Mini server running Lavericks and Logic Pro9.
I was going to upgrade to Sierra and ProX once I finish the project I am helping out on right now, but not if it opens THIS can of worms.

Is it usual for Apple to just dump user sof what it regards as "obsolete" hardware and leave users to find a helpful third party to keep them running?
I thought that was why we got Macs rather than put up with Windows usual compatibility issues.
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Old 01-29-2017, 02:11 AM   #12
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I find this all so fascinating and so strange that some of us have horrible lag and fps yet others don't have any issues at all?.., I did a fresh install of Sierra just before Christmas but it did not improve anything on my system, I have also read that if you register on the apple developers site you can download their graphics tools software and then use the quartz debug app..?, do you think that would help guys?.

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Old 01-29-2017, 03:26 AM   #13
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Posted this example in another thread… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBNZPJHYfVg (no snapping enabled) It is possible to start Reaper in low resolution mode, looks a bit wacky with fonts, but runs reasonably fluid.
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Old 01-29-2017, 03:57 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ivansc View Post
Damn that is somewhat scary - I am a very recent convert to Macs and have a mid 2011 Mini server running Lavericks and Logic Pro9.
I was going to upgrade to Sierra and ProX once I finish the project I am helping out on right now, but not if it opens THIS can of worms.

Is it usual for Apple to just dump user sof what it regards as "obsolete" hardware and leave users to find a helpful third party to keep them running?
I thought that was why we got Macs rather than put up with Windows usual compatibility issues.
I don't think it's even an "old machine" problem. It only seems to be retina displays that have lag problems. I know the Logic forums were ablaze with complaints about GUI lag with Logic X and retina displays when they first came out.
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Old 01-29-2017, 03:58 AM   #15
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Low resolution mode still does not fix the poor frame rate of the play head.., resizing everything is still laggy and annoying, also when adding more plugins the fps gets worse and worse.

.

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Old 01-29-2017, 04:03 AM   #16
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Low resolution mode still does not fix the poor frame rate of the play head.., resizing everything is still laggy and annoying, also when adding more plugins the fps gets worse and worse.

.

.
Are you talking about REAPER or Logic?
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Old 01-29-2017, 04:17 AM   #17
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I am talking about the newest version of Reaper.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Judders View Post
Are you talking about REAPER or Logic?
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Old 01-29-2017, 04:23 AM   #18
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I am talking about the newest version of Reaper.
Was the previous version the same?
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Old 01-29-2017, 04:35 AM   #19
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Was the previous version the same?
yes I have been using Reaper since October 2015 on both my old 2008 MacBook Pro and my new December 2015 iMac.., Reaper has always had a laggy playhead and glitchy gui poor fps for me.

.

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Old 01-29-2017, 04:45 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Futur8me View Post
yes I have been using Reaper since October 2015 on both my old 2008 MacBook Pro and my new December 2015 iMac.., Reaper has always had a laggy playhead and glitchy gui poor fps for me.

.

.
That is strange.

I read in some forums that menu bar items that constantly refresh can cause conflicts. Some people were recommending the Bartender app, other people found that disabling transparency in the OS preferences, or enabling high contrast mode helped (all in the accessibility prefs).

I guess it must be a software conflict, seeing as people with the same hardware don't have the same problems.
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Old 01-29-2017, 04:50 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Johnson III View Post
Hi Andy, If you drag the Marquee tool on the bottom half of a wave file that is zoomed-in to make a selection, you don’t have any problems with a choppy GUI? Or if you resize the Reaper window, scroll a wave file…? Not an arrangement with one wave file but a reasonable real world scenario.

Thanks for trying to help.

I understand you are not saying "it works on my system" to annoy me but presumed there are not that much variables between similar iMac systems (hard and software). It could be perception by comparison or using Reaper in a different way?

Here are some system specs….


Model Identifier: iMac17,1
Processor Name: Intel Core i5
Processor Speed: 3,2 GHz
Memory: 24 GB
Boot ROM Version: IM171.0105.B15
Chipset Model: AMD Radeon R9 M390
VRAM (Total): 2048 MB
EFI Driver Version: 01.00.799
Metal: Supported
Display Type: Retina LCD
Resolution: 5120 x 2880 Retina
Retina: Yes
Pixel Depth: 30-Bit Color (ARGB2101010)
Leave it with me and I'll try to replicate what you describe. I'm away from home at the moment, but should hopefully be able to look in the next couple of days.
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Old 01-29-2017, 05:11 AM   #22
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That is strange.

I read in some forums that menu bar items that constantly refresh can cause conflicts. Some people were recommending the Bartender app, other people found that disabling transparency in the OS preferences, or enabling high contrast mode helped (all in the accessibility prefs).

I guess it must be a software conflict, seeing as people with the same hardware don't have the same problems.

yes it is strange, because I have been reading that running windows on the same Mac hardware Reaper runs works better smoother.

.
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Old 01-29-2017, 09:58 AM   #23
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Damn that is somewhat scary - I am a very recent convert to Macs and have a mid 2011 Mini server running Lavericks and Logic Pro9.
I was going to upgrade to Sierra and ProX once I finish the project I am helping out on right now, but not if it opens THIS can of worms.

Is it usual for Apple to just dump user sof what it regards as "obsolete" hardware and leave users to find a helpful third party to keep them running?
I thought that was why we got Macs rather than put up with Windows usual compatibility issues.
No, this is disturbing opposite-land behavior that seems to have come about after Steve Jobs left us. I don't think they've devolved to Windows level silliness yet but this sloppiness is disturbing.

I think in this case the missing installer packages only affect some of the 2009 models. Some of these are fully modern spec 8 core i7 machines and similar so the faux pas is pretty glaring.

Pretty slick 3rd party patch someone made though.


I only recently dragged myself kicking and screaming from 10.6.8. I think I'm going to camp on 10.10 for a spell. Rule of thumb in audio is stay at least 2 OS's behind anyway.
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Old 01-29-2017, 10:07 AM   #24
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I only recently dragged myself kicking and screaming from 10.6.8. I think I'm going to camp on 10.10 for a spell. Rule of thumb in audio is stay at least 2 OS's behind anyway.
Yeah Yosemite seems to be a sweet spot right about now.
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Old 01-29-2017, 12:02 PM   #25
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Leave it with me and I'll try to replicate what you describe. I'm away from home at the moment, but should hopefully be able to look in the next couple of days.
Thanks Andy! Here is a Youtube clip on how things are now https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBNZPJHYfVg
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Old 01-29-2017, 12:08 PM   #26
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I only recently dragged myself kicking and screaming from 10.6.8. I think I'm going to camp on 10.10 for a spell. Rule of thumb in audio is stay at least 2 OS's behind anyway.
Beware that upgrading also changes something in the iMac firmware. Had to return my Focusrite Clarett because of this. Clicks and pops galore....Reinstalling and downgrading did not resolve the problem. Known problem on the Focusrite website.
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Old 01-29-2017, 12:32 PM   #27
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Damn that is somewhat scary - I am a very recent convert to Macs and have a mid 2011 Mini server running Lavericks and Logic Pro9.
I was going to upgrade to Sierra and ProX once I finish the project I am helping out on right now, but not if it opens THIS can of worms.

Is it usual for Apple to just dump user sof what it regards as "obsolete" hardware and leave users to find a helpful third party to keep them running?
I thought that was why we got Macs rather than put up with Windows usual compatibility issues.
About two and a half years ago, after almost 25 years of building Windows machines, I bought a Mac. People told me, "It's a Mac. It just works." For the most part, this has been my experience, until recently.

I was using 10.10.6, and about three weeks ago decided to skip 10.11.5, and did a fresh install of 10.12.2. Now my MBP locks up several times a day. I was beginning to think I died and went to Windows.

This MBP is dedicated to music use, and I was starting to suspect REAPER might be the culprit until yesterday when the Mac locked up in Safari, and later in WordPad, and then with iTunes.

I just updated to 10.12.3, so here's hoping.

:- Don
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Old 01-29-2017, 12:58 PM   #28
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About two and a half years ago, after almost 25 years of building Windows machines, I bought a Mac. People told me, "It's a Mac. It just works." For the most part, this has been my experience, until recently.

I was using 10.10.6, and about three weeks ago decided to skip 10.11.5, and did a fresh install of 10.12.2. Now my MBP locks up several times a day. I was beginning to think I died and went to Windows.

This MBP is dedicated to music use, and I was starting to suspect REAPER might be the culprit until yesterday when the Mac locked up in Safari, and later in WordPad, and then with iTunes.

I just updated to 10.12.3, so here's hoping.

:- Don
Yeah, 10.10 was a lot more stable for me than 10.11. More often than not Safari is the culprit.
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Old 01-29-2017, 01:37 PM   #29
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What color profile are you using for the display (in displays/color tab)?
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Old 01-29-2017, 02:22 PM   #30
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For what it's worth, i did a clean install of 10.12 some time ago.
Now, currently running 10.12.3
I must say Reaper (64bit version) runs just awesomely great on it.

Comparision to how Reaper did run under for me under OSX 10.10 ?
I don't have really.
But i have a feeling, OSX 10.12 feels more snappy than OSX 10.10, and so does Reaper under 10.12.
Ofcourse, i am very aware of the fact that this is just a personal, subjective statement.

Macbook 2015 Retina.
Reaper - 64bit, latest.
OSX 10.12.3

As said a thousand times : NEVER do a an osx UPGRADE.
ALWAYS do a CLEAN install of a new osx version.

That way, least chance on odd / weird / buggy behaviours, and performance decrease.
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Old 01-30-2017, 02:06 AM   #31
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Hi guys.., I have been doing lots of searches on internet and it seems that these newest models of the 5k iMac have this horrible lagging and glitchy gui.

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Old 01-30-2017, 06:27 AM   #32
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Hi guys.., I have been doing lots of searches on internet and it seems that these newest models of the 5k iMac have this horrible lagging and glitchy gui.

.

.
It's been an intermittent and inconsistent problem for as long as there have been Retina displays. It was the biggest complaint on the Logic forums in 2013 when version X was released; playhead running at single digit fps, EQ analyser getting progressively choppier the longer it's open etc. etc...
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Old 01-30-2017, 07:59 AM   #33
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It's been an intermittent and inconsistent problem for as long as there have been Retina displays. It was the biggest complaint on the Logic forums in 2013 when version X was released; playhead running at single digit fps, EQ analyser getting progressively choppier the longer it's open etc. etc...
I use logic x as well and its gui is not as laggy and glitchy as Reapers.., what fascinates me is that windows 10 runs reaper on the 5k iMac better from what i have been reading, but i need to see that to believe it first.

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Old 01-30-2017, 08:15 AM   #34
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Yeah, 10.10 was a lot more stable for me than 10.11
For me 10.11.6 is as stable as 10.10.5 was ... no issues on my MBP.
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Old 01-30-2017, 08:26 AM   #35
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For me 10.11.6 is as stable as 10.10.5 was ... no issues on my MBP.
we need to know what your mac hardware is please.

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Old 01-30-2017, 09:05 AM   #36
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I use logic x as well and its gui is not as laggy and glitchy as Reapers.., what fascinates me is that windows 10 runs reaper on the 5k iMac better from what i have been reading, but i need to see that to believe it first.

.
Here you go... In VMware... Virtual desktop Not even a Windows reboot https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUiyNtvRtG4

This is native iMac with no VMware overhead https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBNZPJHYfVg
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Old 01-30-2017, 09:08 AM   #37
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Justin.... Please take a look at this massive difference?

In VMware... Virtual desktop. Not even a Windows reboot. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUiyNtvRtG4

This is native iMac with no VMware overhead https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBNZPJHYfVg

iMac 5k late 2015 Sierra
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Old 01-30-2017, 09:40 AM   #38
charles.monteiro
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Default Reaper stuck on loading Izotope Ozone 7 Equalizer

On Windows 10, what debug diagnostics can I submit ? thanks
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Old 01-30-2017, 09:57 AM   #39
Aymara
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Futur8me View Post
we need to know what your mac hardware is please.
It's a 15" Macbook Pro Retina mid 2014 with i7, 16 GB RAM and 512 GB SSD, which shipped with Yosemite 10.10.2, which I upgraded directly to 10.10.3 and later to 10.10.5 ... because I had to wait for Tascam drivers for El Capitan and because of generall issue reports about El Cap I directly upgraded to 10.11.6, which I tested before with a thunderbolt SSD.

To make sure, 10.11.6 won't cause issues, I installed 10.10.5 to the external SSD, then restored from Time Machine and finally upgraded to 10.11.6
After checking, that I have no issues, I upgraded the internal SSD installation to 10.11.6 too.

These test installations to an external HDD / SSD can avoid a lot of issues, because you have an instant fallback without hassle ... the test though needs more time, but is absolutely safe. But cloning software would speed this up.
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Last edited by Aymara; 01-30-2017 at 10:03 AM.
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Old 01-30-2017, 01:05 PM   #40
Justin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Johnson III View Post
Justin.... Please take a look at this massive difference?

In VMware... Virtual desktop. Not even a Windows reboot. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUiyNtvRtG4

This is native iMac with no VMware overhead https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBNZPJHYfVg

iMac 5k late 2015 Sierra
Not sure what I can do here -- I could go get a 5k imac, but from what I gather other people have them without this issue. I'll go in to an apple store in the next few days and see if I can duplicate.
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