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05-13-2018, 09:47 AM
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#1
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 225
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[5.80] Take FX automation doesn't report starting value, causes pops (FIXED)
1. Add an audio item to a track
2. Add ReaEQ with a single lowpass filter with high resonance
3. Add a take FX automation, sweeping the filter cutoff from minimum to maximum
4. Play until near the end of the item
5. Play again from item start
Result: There's a loud pop at the beginning as ReaEQ moves from the automation value that it stopped at, to the new automation start value on the item.
Expected: ReaEQ set the automation value to the starting point before processing audio, so you get a smooth filter sweep instead of a pop at the beginning.
Last edited by paat; 05-13-2018 at 09:58 AM.
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05-13-2018, 10:43 AM
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#2
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Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 15,721
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Yeah this is a bug in the filter transition smoothing, it should not smooth after a reset.
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05-13-2018, 10:46 AM
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#3
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 225
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I'm not quite sure what "filter transition smoothing" but the parameter jumping applies to any automated parameter for any plugin, it's not just the ReaEQ cutoff.
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05-13-2018, 10:51 AM
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#4
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Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 15,721
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paat
I'm not quite sure what "filter transition smoothing" but the parameter jumping applies to any automated parameter for any plugin, it's not just the ReaEQ cutoff.
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Hmm do you have other examples? This is what happens when seeking on take FX: - Plug-in reset
- Set new parameters
- Process first block
ReaEQ, on each parameter change, smooths the parameter changes over the block (which is normally desired). After the first block following a reset it is not desired and is a bug...
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05-13-2018, 11:07 AM
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#5
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 225
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* Cytomic The Drop
* CamelPhat bandpass
* DMGAudio EQuick
One thing I notice is that with track effect envelopes, when you move the cursor, you can see the VST parameter update in the plugin GUI. But moving the cursor doesn't update the plugin GUI for take effects. The GUI doesn't change until I hit play, and the sudden visual movement from the old value to the new value corresponds with the sound that does the same thing.
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05-13-2018, 11:10 AM
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#6
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Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 15,721
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paat
* Cytomic The Drop
* CamelPhat bandpass
* DMGAudio EQuick
One thing I notice is that with track effect envelopes, when you move the cursor, you can see the VST parameter update in the plugin GUI. But moving the cursor doesn't update the plugin GUI for take effects. The GUI doesn't change until I hit play, and the sudden visual movement from the old value to the new value corresponds with the sound that does the same thing.
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I think this is likely a similar bug in those plug-ins. The UI update issue is related but not the cause.
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05-13-2018, 11:16 AM
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#7
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 225
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05-13-2018, 11:18 AM
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#8
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 225
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin
I think this is likely a similar bug in those plug-ins. The UI update issue is related but not the cause.
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Okay. Is that a bug in how REAPER interacts with those plugins? Or with the plugins themselves? Basically I'm wondering if an update to REAPER will fix all these plugins, or if I'd have to contact each developer individually and report it to them. Hopefully it's a REAPER-only thing, or REAPER can do a helpful trick.
Track FX automation works great, because the initial parameter value can be set before any audio starts processing. But with item FX, the audio and the initial parameter value both start at the same time.
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05-13-2018, 11:20 AM
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#9
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,790
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I think you'll need to contact each developer separately. The fix needs to be done in ReaEQ from what I gather. Not host-side.
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05-13-2018, 11:32 AM
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#10
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 225
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Seems like REAPER could read ahead the starting automation value and tell the plugins about it if it had to? Or potentially let you drag the item FX automation handle outside of the item itself (not sure how that would work).
Track effects don't have this problem precisely because the parameter gets set before any audio starts... there might be a way to make something similar happen with item FX.
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To clarify, I don't see this problem with track FX envelopes at all, with those same plugins. Moving the cursor causes the GUI to update, and the parameters to be set to the value of the automation point at the cursor. So, REAPER is doing something right with track FX envelopes that it's not doing with item FX envelopes.
Last edited by paat; 05-13-2018 at 11:38 AM.
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05-13-2018, 12:00 PM
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#11
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Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 15,721
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paat
Seems like REAPER could read ahead the starting automation value and tell the plugins about it if it had to? Or potentially let you drag the item FX automation handle outside of the item itself (not sure how that would work).
Track effects don't have this problem precisely because the parameter gets set before any audio starts... there might be a way to make something similar happen with item FX.
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To clarify, I don't see this problem with track FX envelopes at all, with those same plugins. Moving the cursor causes the GUI to update, and the parameters to be set to the value of the automation point at the cursor. So, REAPER is doing something right with track FX envelopes that it's not doing with item FX envelopes.
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This is almost certainly a bug in various plug-ins, we've just fixed it in ReaEQ for 5.81rc2. We could possibly work around those bugs by processing an extra block in take FX, but I can't say if or when that will happen.
If you want to test a theory for me -- put those FX on a track with automation, go to prefs/playback, disable the option "Run FX when stopped", and set "Run FX for X ms" to 0 ms. Then make sure the tracks in question are not record armed. Once you do that, you should be able to duplicate similar behavior (because the track FX will not be processed between stopping and starting playback).
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05-13-2018, 12:11 PM
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#12
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 225
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin
If you want to test a theory for me -- put those FX on a track with automation, go to prefs/playback, disable the option "Run FX when stopped", and set "Run FX for X ms" to 0 ms. Then make sure the tracks in question are not record armed. Once you do that, you should be able to duplicate similar behavior (because the track FX will not be processed between stopping and starting playback).
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Yep exact same behavior.
Last edited by paat; 05-13-2018 at 12:29 PM.
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06-09-2018, 10:03 AM
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#13
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 225
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I'm glad to see this is fixed for ReaEQ!
Is there a workaround for other plugins? Every plugin I've tried exhibits the same popping behavior. As mentioned previously, it seems to me like automation values are handled differently for item FX than track FX. Moving the edit cursor notifies the track FX of the updated automation value, but it doesn't appear to notify item FX of the automation value.
Is there a way to configure REAPER to report updated automation values to item FX plugins when moving the edit cursor, the same way it reports updated automation values to track FX?
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