Reaper and Dolby ATMOS?

[Woops]

Originally Posted by BartR

Im' very interested to know if ever Reaper will be working with Dolby ATMOS panner, not only in bridged mode, as they said me in Dolby Lab).

I know that Dolby at the moment in time, didn't plan any Panner for Windows platforms nor Linux. Just Apple.
But aside this, in case Dolby changes their mind and delivers these pans to all the environment, is there any chance Reaper will be employed for such case?

Thank you

It's just odd they would say that all the media servers are Linux based and are branded Doremi And you guessed it DOlBY is the parent company of Doremi. These Doremi boxes use high-speed network to upload the movies to the media servers located at the base of each projector in a cinema, and yes the movie distribution houses still use hard drives for distribution, they send a movie to the cinema on Hard-Drive and pick up the old ones, the doremi server sends the video signal to the projector and the dolby Atmos file to the Dolby cinema processor and then to the drive rack, check link for dolby cinema processor used at the cinema i work at.
https://professional.dolby.com/produ...rs/cp850/#gref


I work on these systems all the time linux and windows a main part of the infrastructure kind of shooting them self in the foot going Mac only as MAC does not support enterprise architecture, hence why linux and windows are use it just don't get it.

Doremi labs wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doremi_Labs
Doremi labs dcp 2k2 user manual https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/vi...al-doremi-labs

and there are a couple of other things in the middle path to water mark screens to stop ip theft great implementation.

but all linux and windows based systems run the back end

The mac only thing is just stupidity if its something to do with the prorez license its now windows based so what they are feeding you sounds like they have no idea what they are talking about, id try further up the chain for the technical standards director at DOLBY
I hope a little history on the back helps to figure a solution

Woops

[BartR]

Originally Posted by Woops

The mac only thing is just stupidity if its something to do with the prorez license its now windows based so what they are feeding you sounds like they have no idea what they are talking about, id try further up the chain for the technical standards director at DOLBY
I hope a little history on the back helps to figure a solution

Woops

Only the Panner is not for Windows ... so: the key component to generate the required Objects for the Renderer. And they told clearly that Windows version it's not in their spotlight. Probably they got some ass-to-ass agreement only with Apple ... Avid of course (since they only one way to upload ATMOS Music on Digital Markets, is via Avid system...

[Woops]

hello and nice to meet you this is my third post

From what I have been reading the mac version is not very stable at all

external sync issues with the time clock and the list go on.

Avid licence only now that i would not put past them, but Nuendo Steinberg supports Atmos music panner not sure of the Dolby panner on pc will have to ask mates who use Nuendo they are PC based so this answer baffles me has to be a Pro res / Avid thing.

but the plugin is free so i don't get why they dont have dual platform support kind of shooting them selfs in the foot for companies that offer dual platform support with plugins for all DAWS.

Just makes me think why they don't support enterprise architecture, VTD caused kernal panics VTX also they never patched it to fixed and just dropped out of servers altogether I have not seen a mac server in a server farm for at least 12 years now.

just reminds me of 2004 2005 or was it 2006, I had just spent money on my first version of logic Audio platinum 6 and then logic announced they are going mac only that was it for logic for me. then literally after that mac announced all the software going mac only then literally 2 weeks later an anouncement from Nvidia and intel announcing the release of the PCIe card for graphics mac shot itself in the foot and spent the last ten years catching up and still have not caught up with trends

It's just sad they cant play fair in the marketplace

Ill ask some questions with my tech director at Hoytz and see what i can turn up, i guess they don't understand the MVC framework lmao.
hence they pulled out of the enterprise architecture race they will struggle to get over the line these days lmao

Chat soon

[drichard]

The EAR development program seems to offer that. I'm not very knowledgeable about ADM or surround, but they seem to be on the right track with a system that (based on my novice understanding) would be a nice standard. I don't understand the nuances, but it is similar to Atmos in that it offers support for a bed and objects in the surround space.

Biggest hurdle is widespread acceptance. But it would be wonderful to have an open source standard.

Originally Posted by sguyader

What I really hope, is that Dolby agrees with other parties to come to an open, shared standard of ADM BWF files.

[BartR]

Originally Posted by drichard

The EAR development program seems to offer that. I'm not very knowledgeable about ADM or surround, but they seem to be on the right track with a system that (based on my novice understanding) would be a nice standard. I don't understand the nuances, but it is similar to Atmos in that it offers support for a bed and objects in the surround space.

Biggest hurdle is widespread acceptance. But it would be wonderful to have an open source standard.

EAR is that foundation of Atmos but Atmos is something else. You can't deliver in EAR if you need Atmos decoding systems not even to address them in any way.

If we need Atmos, we need to export Atmos.

[BartR]

Dolby Atmos Renderer is controllable by the use of OSC

please here the topic on FB https://www.facebook.com/groups/5927...=recently_seen

in the group Spatial Audio in VR/AR/MR

I hope such thing can be implemented into the Native Panner of Reaper, becoming able to drive Dolby.
And the issue (?) will be solved

[tohubohu]

hello,
where are we in this feature request?

[Gass n Klang]

Originally Posted by tohubohu

hello,
where are we in this feature request?

same question. I switched to mac and bought the dolby atmos production suite as I probably have to do some atmos production. I'd love to do them in reaper. I'm very new to this. Can anybody give a quick status report what's possible and what we need Pro Tools for?

[benmiller]

Originally Posted by Gass n Klang

same question. I switched to mac and bought the dolby atmos production suite as I probably have to do some atmos production. I'd love to do them in reaper. I'm very new to this. Can anybody give a quick status report what's possible and what we need Pro Tools for?

last i checked you could work in reaper. load the atoms panning plugin in reaper tracks, it "connects" to the atmos renderer which you have running on the same computer (this is just sending control data). the renderer appears as a sound interface in reaper, so that's how you route the audio from reaper to the renderer. in the renderer you set up how many and what types of beds you want yo use, and how many objects etc. so you can have a 12ch track in reaper feeding a 7.4.1 bed for example. the panning to that 12ch track inside reaper can be done using rea suround pan. For the objects you route the reaper track for it to arrive on the appropriate channel as spcified in the renderer, the dolby panner on that reaper track also needs to point to the right object. It takes a bit of setup time but it works, there are many ways you can set up your reaper session depending on how you like to work.

[Gass n Klang]

Thanks! I'll have to do some investigation and checking but it sounds good.

[BartR]

Originally Posted by benmiller

last i checked you could work in reaper. load the atoms panning plugin in reaper tracks, it "connects" to the atmos renderer which you have running on the same computer (this is just sending control data). the renderer appears as a sound interface in reaper, so that's how you route the audio from reaper to the renderer. in the renderer you set up how many and what types of beds you want yo use, and how many objects etc. so you can have a 12ch track in reaper feeding a 7.4.1 bed for example. the panning to that 12ch track inside reaper can be done using rea suround pan. For the objects you route the reaper track for it to arrive on the appropriate channel as spcified in the renderer, the dolby panner on that reaper track also needs to point to the right object. It takes a bit of setup time but it works, there are many ways you can set up your reaper session depending on how you like to work.

under MAC not under WIndows since Dolby doesn't make he panner for WIndows. This is well known and officially declared by DOLBY.

So please upfront any suggestion, be sure the addressed person IS under MAC .
Or he/she will just waste time.

[benmiller]

Originally Posted by BartR

under MAC not under WIndows since Dolby doesn't make he panner for WIndows. This is well known and officially declared by DOLBY.

So please upfront any suggestion, be sure the addressed person IS under MAC .
Or he/she will just waste time.

well his first sentence was "I switched to mac and ... "
But thanks for pointing this out for any windows user wondering about the same thing!

[Gass n Klang]

My .4 height speaker will arrive tomorrow. Quite exciting. The 7.1 is already running and it's a hell lot of fun to listen through apple music 3d playlists.

[BartR]

Ok so, it seems that officially with Apple Music from Feb 1st 2023, you will not any longer be in any playlist unless you submit the music in Atmos ...

Spotify is building up Atmos Studio ...

If Cockos is not interested in it, and abandon us about Atmos, should we switch to Nuendo?

Or we can hope in some effective and more appreciated solution within Reaper?

[Gass n Klang]

Yes, I need to create a workflow for Atmos soon. I think, Spotify and YouTube will follow with Dolby Atmos and in just a few years it will be the standard format for the professional market. So, in a professional working situation it has to be as flawless as possible. BartR did you try Atmos in Nuendo?

[BartR]

Originally Posted by Gass n Klang

Yes, I need to create a workflow for Atmos soon. I think, Spotify and YouTube will follow with Dolby Atmos and in just a few years it will be the standard format for the professional market. So, in a professional working situation it has to be as flawless as possible. BartR did you try Atmos in Nuendo?

Being Dolby Licensee, I did use Nuendo for years.
When I really discovered Reaper, it's potentialities, workflow etc, and it is able to work in Dolby as well (Minnetonka plugins are working fine and the panner is great), I switched to Reaper. Way more rapid in everything and way more stable.

Hence I stopped to update Nuendo, and I didn't yet) get Atmos of course (because it was occurring several years ago).

But if I'm constrained to go produce in Atmos, then sadly I have to retake it. Which it will be very disappointing, knowing Reaper and knowing Nuendo.

At the end, what Reaper needs is that the Native Panner for 7.1.2 and 7.1.4 (for instance) can be locked with the Renderer. because as I said, Dolby Lab is not intentioned to create a Panner for Windows (they are only Mac ... "culo-a-culo" as in italian is said ... it means "ass-to-ass"), it's possible to overcome with a Native Panner into the DAW.

Then, for the Windows User: we would need to spend 995USD to purchase the Renderer ... and it's ok (almost OK since I spotted that the price for Mac is way lower ... "culo-a-culo".

[Gass n Klang]

Ok, I'm on Mac for two month now. So, no problems regarding the windows problem. Dolby Atmos Renderer 5 is out and runs on windows and Mac, but yeah it's still a pain.
Other then this, do you think nuendo has superior workflows regarding Atmos?

[BartR]

Originally Posted by Gass n Klang

Ok, I'm on Mac for two month now. So, no problems regarding the windows problem. Dolby Atmos Renderer 5 is out and runs on windows and Mac, but yeah it's still a pain.
Other then this, do you think nuendo has superior workflows regarding Atmos?

Better than Reaper for sure, since Reaper has not any like it.
Moreover Nuendo has an integrated Panner for Dolby ... as Reaper can have ... and this means you don't have to worry about the panner. nor in Mac nor in Win

[Gass n Klang]

ok thanks, I'll check that out. Did you compare Pro Tools and Nuendo?

[BartR]

Originally Posted by Gass n Klang

ok thanks, I'll check that out. Did you compare Pro Tools and Nuendo?

I'm not interested any longer in Pro-Tools.

[Gass n Klang]

what I don't really get: Objects are panned by dolby atmos panner. Do we need to pan bed tracks with reasurround?

[BartR]

Originally Posted by Gass n Klang

what I don't really get: Objects are panned by dolby atmos panner. Do we need to pan bed tracks with reasurround?

ReaSurround doesn't produce any sidecar data (metadata) for the Renderer.
So, it's not managing objects at all. then it's useless for Atmos.

Atmos is -not- like Dolby Pro Logic or Digital at all. You need Objects. These are generated by the panner.
ReaSurround has not any implementation for that. So .. no way for raper under Windows.

Instead of, Reaper under Mac CAN BE interfaced with Dolby Panner in Bridge Mode.

There is a studio in France that successfully uses this configuration.

But we are B-Category users for Dolby ... (windows users) ... and Cockos doesn't seem to be "sensitive" to Atmos at all

[Gass n Klang]

yes, I understand the concept of atmos. I just wonder if BED channels (the first 10 channels that define the 7.1.2 bed) can be panned via dolby atmos panner (mac user here...) or if the atmos panner is only for objects?

I hope that cockos will realize the relevance of atmos. I think there are many things that can be improved regarding atmos. The concept of a "master track" is quite related to stereo mixing. In atmos, every object has its own output to the dolby atmos bridge. It would be quite nice if sends and outputs got a better visual separation in the mixer to have a better overview over the output routing for example.

[BartR]

Originally Posted by Gass n Klang

yes, I understand the concept of atmos. I just wonder if BED channels (the first 10 channels that define the 7.1.2 bed) can be panned via dolby atmos panner (mac user here...) or if the atmos panner is only for objects?

I hope that cockos will realize the relevance of atmos. I think there are many things that can be improved regarding atmos. The concept of a "master track" is quite related to stereo mixing. In atmos, every object has its own output to the dolby atmos bridge. It would be quite nice if sends and outputs got a better visual separation in the mixer to have a better overview over the output routing for example.

If one uses Bed in Atmos, then he's not really doing Atmos.
Indeed the Bed is there mor for compatibility with old systems like Digital etc ...
Atmos is Objects based and Objects should be used.

[Gass n Klang]

ok, in my understanding most people mix bed and objects. but tbh I didn't really understand why not just go with object (and bed channel #4 for the LFE aux trick stuff).

[BartR]

Originally Posted by Gass n Klang

ok, in my understanding most people mix bed and objects. but tbh I didn't really understand why not just go with object (and bed channel #4 for the LFE aux trick stuff).

Objects are NOT Possible in Reaper. Reason? ReaSurround doesn't produce them.
So: and of the game.

Without objects you are NOT using Atmos at all.
You just keep compatibility with old systems. Not any scalability.

[BartR]

Originally Posted by X-Raym

@BartR
What about EAR Production suite ? As it is ADM, it brings objets based workflow right ?


Also Spat Revolution with ReaVolution claims object models for REAPER.

as it was clearly explained in this thread in previous pages: those have nothing to do with Atmos. Please check the messages before this, where it is explained.
Just in short: Atmos took principle from ADM but it's totally customized and not compatible.
Spat has nothing to do with Atmos. Despite the fact that's a great system di per se.

There is not any choice: or the ReaSurround produces the required objects Atmos needs, or you have not any other way than have:
A MAC (no windows)
The Dolby Panner in Bridge with Reaper.

Solution 3: Cockos implements the compatibility ...

[Gass n Klang]

Originally Posted by BartR

Objects are NOT Possible in Reaper. Reason? ReaSurround doesn't produce them.
So: and of the game.

Without objects you are NOT using Atmos at all.
You just keep compatibility with old systems. Not any scalability.

yeah right, but I'm on mac. So bed routing can be done in reasurround while object panning is done in dolby atmos panner.

[benmiller]

Originally Posted by Gass n Klang

what I don't really get: Objects are panned by dolby atmos panner. Do we need to pan bed tracks with reasurround?

yes. If you are sending a bed to the renderer, the panning for that bed is allready "backed in" in to the audio channels.

so you do the panning for the bed with reasurrond or any over panner which can handle the appropriate layout for your bed.

I would suggest to create "master bed track" in reaper for every bed which you send to the renderer. And any track which needs to go to that bed is routed to that master bed track, and has an appropriate panner setup.

You could also route certain tracks directly to certain channels of the bed. So if you have some stereo sounds going to the bed, which should just be played on speakers L and R then you just route that track to channel 1+2 of the "master bed track" and you don't need any special panner.

Having a native atmos capable panner which could speak to the render would allow a more consistent panning experience, you would be always using the same panner put it would either be set up to feed a bed, or just giving panning data to the renderer for object panning.

[Gass n Klang]

OK cool. I saw that workflow with master bed tracks somewhere else, too. But I wonder if it's not easier to use the master track with 10 channels as bed track and just send every bed track there using reasurround pan. I'm just getting into the whole thing and searching for different workflows to see what could work best for me.

It definitly seem to be standard to use an LFE aux to be able to send objects to the life. But that could also be done via the master track by simply sending the object to ch4 of the master track.

[BartR]

Originally Posted by Gass n Klang

yeah right, but I'm on mac. So bed routing can be done in reasurround while object panning is done in dolby atmos panner.

being on MAC you can drop ReaSurround and use the Dolby Panner.
You have not problems.

[BartR]

Originally Posted by Gass n Klang

OK cool. I saw that workflow with master bed tracks somewhere else, too. But I wonder if it's not easier to use the master track with 10 channels as bed track and just send every bed track there using reasurround pan. I'm just getting into the whole thing and searching for different workflows to see what could work best for me.

It definitly seem to be standard to use an LFE aux to be able to send objects to the life. But that could also be done via the master track by simply sending the object to ch4 of the master track.

But working just on the bed, ist not Atmos .. yes you can do it with ReaSurround (I said already many times) but this is NOT Atmos.

To work iN properly in Amtos you must have objects. Those are scalable and those are the ones that make you perceive the location in the 3D space properly in all the configurations (less speakers less precision).

[Gass n Klang]

yes I know it's all about object to be compatible to different speaker formats. It's not about ONLY using bed. I just try to figure out if using the bed as ADDITION to object gives any advantages at all as the film industry is using bed and objects, too.

But it seems like you can drop the bed channels completely and do everything in objects.

[BartR]

Originally Posted by Gass n Klang

But it seems like you can drop the bed channels completely and do everything in objects.

Exactly.

I think you can use the bed for undetermined point-sources ... wind, rain etc.
But to pint directional sounds: from-to or locate them: object is the way to go for.

[benmiller]

Originally Posted by Gass n Klang

OK cool. I saw that workflow with master bed tracks somewhere else, too. But I wonder if it's not easier to use the master track with 10 channels as bed track and just send every bed track there using reasurround pan. I'm just getting into the whole thing and searching for different workflows to see what could work best for me.

It definitly seem to be standard to use an LFE aux to be able to send objects to the life. But that could also be done via the master track by simply sending the object to ch4 of the master track.

As the Master track can be 64ch, you could also have all your beds and objects going through the master track, just all routed to different channels, this way your master track can still be used as a master volume (controlling the level of beds and objects). Reaper beeing so flexible there are a lot of options how to set things up.


You can have multiple beds if you want/need. For example a stereo bed, and 7.1.4 bed.

[Gass n Klang]

Ideally we had 128ch tracks, to route all the beds/objects to the master.

[jm duchenne]

And today :

v6.78+dev0402 - April 2 2023
* Includes feature branch: 128 channels per track
+ Audio: support up to 128 channels per track, 128 channels of I/O per plug-in

[benmiller]

haha, you didn't even have time to post the feature request

[Gass n Klang]

damn I love that DAW

[BartR]

Originally Posted by jm duchenne

And today :

v6.78+dev0402 - April 2 2023
* Includes feature branch: 128 channels per track
+ Audio: support up to 128 channels per track, 128 channels of I/O per plug-in

NICE!!!! It's the way t go for ...