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Old 03-02-2021, 11:08 AM   #201
JamesPeters
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...as soon as some people find out I used an SM58 to record the vocals on a project that will be released they will say the vocals suck and the recording would have been so much "better" had I used an LDC for the vocal. I have to accept that.
Or you can try a different tactic: tell them you used a Neumann. After they gush over how great it sounds, tell them it's actually an SM58 and that they need to get over their mentality.

It may not accomplish much, but it'll at least provide you some entertainment.
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Old 03-02-2021, 12:15 PM   #202
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Or you can try a different tactic: tell them you used a Neumann. After they gush over how great it sounds, tell them it's actually an SM58 and that they need to get over their mentality.

It may not accomplish much, but it'll at least provide you some entertainment.
Noooo.

Don't do that. Don't tell them it's not a Neumann. Don't wreck people's dreams.

I once told someone who liked a particular acoustic recording the mic used was a "Silbermann". These don't exist, AFAIK. He's still looking. That was over a decade ago. I'm waiting for the day someone sells him a Silbermann.
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Old 03-02-2021, 12:24 PM   #203
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I'm waiting for the day someone sells him a Silbermann.
Very clever. You didn't think of selling him a "Silbermann" yourself?
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Old 03-02-2021, 12:46 PM   #204
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Noooo.
Don't do that. Don't tell them it's not a Neumann. Don't wreck people's dreams.
As long as you follow up with the reveal, it's fine. Some people may even learn. Maybe.

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Very clever. You didn't think of selling him a "Silbermann" yourself?
I was going to.
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Old 03-02-2021, 01:01 PM   #205
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I'm afraid most don't learn. It's very hard to educate a believer.

And, no, I wouldn't dream of selling him a fake Silbermann. And making a real one is far too much work

He's a clever guy, so I'd hoped he would have gotten the hint. Unfortunately, he didn't and I don't like to burst his bubble. That's what happens if someone pours enough Burgundy red into me...
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Old 03-02-2021, 01:54 PM   #206
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We believe what we hear, but we also hear what we believe.
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Old 03-02-2021, 02:12 PM   #207
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Yeah, but in fairness, if you're eq-ing your vocals like this:


https://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php?p=2406546

folks are going to hear something.
That EQ has permanently been scrapped.

That was not the result of my SM58 mic, which compared to a new one in both EQ curve and sound is almost identical. The two mics only look a bit different in appearance.

My mistake goes to show you the importance of knowing how much low end cut is enough for a vocal within a mix to not sound muddy but still have warmth and body. That EQ was replaced with this one:




The EQ you posted produced the thinner sounding vocal you hear here:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/165e...ew?usp=sharing

And the EQ above helped produced a vocal that does not have the same odd quality of getting too thin and sibilant at times:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Lz2...ew?usp=sharing

That mistake in EQ was made in part because I was concerned I had a defective SM58. Plus, much like you need to do with an electric guitar, I thought in order to sit well and be clear in the mix you need to remove much of the lower frequencies. I went too far into the upper low frequencies (200 - 300 Hz) for a vocal.

However, I also made this mistake in EQ because of the talk I read about the SM58 mic being "too muddy" for a vocal compared to a LDC mic, and I began to believe this. I was hearing what I believed.
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Old 03-02-2021, 02:25 PM   #208
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Actually, I think with all the info out there trying to say that if you record (and apparently use live) with an SM58, particularly for vocals, it will instantly suck, there's a need to keep repeating that it isn't necessarily the case.

And the reality of my circumstance is that no matter what I do, no matter what it sounds like, as soon as some people find out I used an SM58 to record the vocals on a project that will be released they will say the vocals suck and the recording would have been so much "better" had I used an LDC for the vocal. I have to accept that.

We believe what we hear, but we also hear what we believe.
At this point, it just feels like you are hanging on to some sort of a "Tech..." confrontation that you alone are interested in having.

To even seriously entertain that "Some People..." scenario there? I would have to buy into that -

- A Bunch Of People Were Going To Hear What I Was Doing To Start With.

- Some Of Them Will Apparently Track Down Exactly What Vocal Microphone I Have Used?

- Once They Have Done So, They Are Going To Take Time Out Of Their Lives(That They Will Never Get Back...) To Give Me A Lesson On How I Should Actually Have Done It.

Seriously, take a step back for a second and think all of that over.

Does any of it seem seriously plausible to you?

I'm not saying don't think about it at all. Everyone has a place that they are coming from. Just maybe reconsider the degree of focus that you are giving it.
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Old 03-02-2021, 02:29 PM   #209
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We believe what we hear, but we also hear what we believe.
On "We Believe What We Hear..."?

I'm just going to pass one along that I heard a while ago, and took to heart.

A guy on talk radio mentioned something that his father had told him growing up.

"Don't Believe Any Of What They Tell You, And Only Believe Two Thirds Of What They Actually Show You..."
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Old 03-02-2021, 03:35 PM   #210
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That mistake in EQ was made in part because I was concerned I had a defective SM58. Plus, much like you need to do with an electric guitar, I thought in order to sit well and be clear in the mix you need to remove much of the lower frequencies. I went too far into the upper low frequencies (200 - 300 Hz) for a vocal.

[...]

However, I also made this mistake in EQ because of the talk I read about the SM58 mic being "too muddy" for a vocal compared to a LDC mic, and I began to believe this. I was hearing what I believed.
It's sounding much nicer.

I'm sure you've figured this out by now, but generally (unless you're after a special effect, or thinning a sound to make room for something else) you're aiming to cut lows out that aren't making a contribution to the (wanted) sound of the instrument (voice / whatever). Ideally, without the wanted sound suffering.

If you want a heuristic - with the track solo-ed - slide the band up until you can hear the sound change - then back it off a bit. When the instrument (or voice) is exposed, you may want to keep under the lowest fundamental. i.e if you're singing / playing A2 you don't want your filter above 100Hz. Unless you have to. Or want to. See below

In a dense mix of course, you'll get away with (and perhaps benefit from) more aggressive low-cuts. The Ear / Brain is really good at recovering / reconstructing missing fundamentals. Amazing really. You can make other eq tweaks once the mix is coming together - is it helping? A/B it.

I'm not sure where the idea that 58s are "muddy" has come from - unless people are eating them (as you might on stage). If you get right in, there'll be proximity effect, but that's easily avoided by staying a few inches away. You'll need room for your pop filter anyway. If you've still got too much bottom, then slide up your low-cut filter, or add a low cut shelf.

The 58 does have it's own character of course - I guess much of that is to do with its quite hefty presence bump. At it's lower extreme, that can make a voice a bit more "pro" sounding (see "singers formant"), but higher up can be inappropriately "crispy". Of course, if your mix has got space up there, and not so much anywhere else, that added emphasis can be just what you're after.
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Old 03-02-2021, 03:59 PM   #211
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I love your avatar. Reminds of that line in the Beatles song "Michelle ma belle. Sunday monkey won't play piano song...play piano song". Some people claim it's actually in French, but I don't believe it.
Zees ees becawse you are zee feelthy cloth ear Anglais!

"Sont les mots qui vont tres bien ensemble, tres bien ensemble" actually means "Song by Les Motts in a key that goes very well in a bean collection, a bean collection."

You seenk you know fuck all, but you know fuck notheeng!!
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Old 03-02-2021, 04:04 PM   #212
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"Sont les mots qui vont tres bien ensemble, tres bien ensemble" actually means "Song by Les Motts in a key that goes very well in a bean collection, a bean collection."
LOL! You're drole en estie, mon tabar**c......
You can't fool me, mon ami. I'm a native, fully bilingual Montrealer.
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Old 03-03-2021, 02:40 AM   #213
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LOL! You're drole en estie, mon tabar**c......
You can't fool me, mon ami. I'm a native, fully bilingual Montrealer.
Having spent some time in Canada, I assume you know that Canadian French is about as far from French French as Creole French is!
I had a hilarious time years ago in New Orleans trying to have a conversation with a lady in a shop who spoke creole french.
Mind you, there is as much regional variation in France as there is in English, so who knows?

What is the ** in tabar**c, btw? New colloquialism on me. FWIW, I lived in Corsica for several years & have spent half my life in the Morbihan since 2003. Sadly, since Covid I have not been able to visit my home over there.
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Old 03-03-2021, 05:50 AM   #214
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Having spent some time in Canada, I assume you know that Canadian French is about as far from French French as Creole French is!
Yes, I partially agree. The french they speak on TV and formal settings is actually pretty close to real french, with a "Quebecois" accent. The "french" these people speak on the street is barely even a language.

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What is the ** in tabar**c, btw?
"Tabarnac" is probably the most used swear word in Quebec french. Most Quebec swear words have something to do with the church.

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Sadly, since Covid I have not been able to visit my home over there.
Sorry to hear that, brother. I hope things change for the better soon.
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Old 03-04-2021, 09:31 AM   #215
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Funny - we had a french Canadian band visit in Rochefort en Terre some years back & the rest of the band were mocking one member, who was NOT by birth a francophone, for his terrible French.

Little did they know!

I did love that they were wearing clogs to make the rhythm parts!
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Old 03-07-2021, 03:27 PM   #216
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This has been an interesting read. i've not tried using microphone to record anything until now as I only used a POD XTLive for guitar or bass when I first attempted using Reaper back in 2009 before work got in the way. I had a low impedance SM58 from back in the 90's and I tried it today with an accoustic guitar...

I have to say albeit to my inexpert ears it was pretty good about 12 inches away and slightly forward of the sound hole on a Blueridge BR183 guitar. The best bit was going back after and the playing with the Reaper EQ plugin that is discussed in this thread. Using it to knock out the bottom end boom a bit.

I can't say I mastered everything, there are so many more things to get to grips with but all in I was pleased with the simple tests I did and realised the SM58 can do a lot more than I expected. How it will compare with a Rode NT2-a only time will tell.

The point being, thanks for the debate you folks had in particular as regards the eq side of things, the reverb plugin.... Well that'll be another whole lesson being used to Alesis Quads or Fender spring reverbs in the amp.

Thank you again.
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