so there is no more stuck notes for take duplication, but I had stuck notes few times today while drawing notes in the midi editor while the song is playing (after hitting the spacebar).
It happend with IL-Harmor and U-he Zebra
I donno what the exact pattern to reproduce it, but it happens more when the play cursor moves on the midi note that I was drawing at the same time.
I hope you can somehow manage to fix this before I will catch a video of that.
Stuck notes are still here "REAPER BUG: stuck notes when switching between takes"
happens with Harmor, zebra, hive and few more synths every time. easily reproduce.
1.insert Harmor
2.create a midi pattern
3.duplicate the take
4.hit the spacebar to play in loop
5.switch between the takes as the play cursor moves above the notes
Boom!
This is not just a simple bug to squash... no sir... They will be fixing 15 bugs before they actually adress the real issue.
I have the impression that they are trying to satisfy stuck notes in the most patchy way possible. The real issue behind the scenes is the total lack of an actual MIDI management, MIDI notes queuing, etc.
To palliate this, they are just sending boatloads of note offs and the interface jams pretty much everywhere for at least a full second.
Again, this is why I mentioned that Even Cubase one from 1988 is superior, because at least it actually had a queuing system that made sure all notes were handled. I mean ANY midi software should have this. But apparently Reaper is lacking a robust underlying MIDI structure.
In no means this is meant to pun anyone or to throw tomatoes at anything, or what. I have been waiting 6 years to get proper MIDI handling in Reaper, and so far the only thing I can see now is an emergency note off fix that hurts overall performance.
Also it's pretty easy to have note offs forgotten; just let it play in a piano roll and click your way around to change the play cursor as it is going, and poof instant hung notes. If someone thinks it is supposed to happen, I got news for you...
What do you mean by "MIDI event queueing"? Of course things are queued inside Reaper - one event plays after another, it's what MIDI is, sequential series of events. There is also event timestamping in Reaper, so really not sure what you're talking about.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmorel33
Also it's pretty easy to have note offs forgotten; just let it play in a piano roll and click your way around to change the play cursor as it is going, and poof instant hung notes. If someone thinks it is supposed to happen, I got news for you...
Also it's pretty easy to have note offs forgotten; just let it play in a piano roll and click your way around to change the play cursor as it is going, and poof instant hung notes. If someone thinks it is supposed to happen, I got news for you...
This is what happen(ed) to me a lot too. I was using AUi for most of my instruments. As other people hadn't encountered these issues with the same instruments in VSTi format, I have tried VSTi versions of the offending instruments and suddenly they didn't hang anymore on seeking.
Now I have only yesterday replaced all of my AUs with VSTs and still need to see whether this fixed it entirely, but just in the case that you are experiencing this with AUs as well you might want to try VSTs.
I notice that videos really helps to get the dev's attention in order to fix things.
probably because they actually see the way it happens in less time
maybe you should try too if possible.
Sorry, not a synth, but I mentioned this about MIDI Sequencer Megababy when it was worked on some time ago:
Changing between different patterns while running playback works fine, when you are working within one saved preset bank. But if you change from one preset bank to another during live playback, the last note from the previous preset/pattern hangs, unless the following preset/pattern also has the same note.
What seems to happen is that when presets are changed live, the last note from the previous preset doesn't get a note off message. So when the new pattern doesn't have the same note, there will never be note off for that given note.
Steps to reproduce:
Make a pattern with one note repeated for all the steps. Save this as a preset.
Make another pattern with a different repeated note. Save this as a new preset.
Start playback with one of these patterns and switch live onto the other preset/pattern.
This is what happen(ed) to me a lot too. I was using AUi for most of my instruments. As other people hadn't encountered these issues with the same instruments in VSTi format, I have tried VSTi versions of the offending instruments and suddenly they didn't hang anymore on seeking.
Now I have only yesterday replaced all of my AUs with VSTs and still need to see whether this fixed it entirely, but just in the case that you are experiencing this with AUs as well you might want to try VSTs.
I can confirm this. AUi has been the root of all MIDIvil on my end. Stopped using them and no problems ever since.
Some people think they found the source of the issue in a simple AUi, but they don't have the answer. I only use hardware. Some only VSTi's. We all have the same issues.
Some people think they found the source of the issue in a simple AUi, but they don't have the answer. I only use hardware. Some only VSTi's. We all have the same issues.
There is no single "answer". There seem to be many causes coming not only from Reaper but also from plugins, user error, external devices etc. Different people experiences problems in different situations and within different workflows.
The only way to improve the experience for all of us is to report every possible/suspected cause so that it can be examined and maybe fixed or at least a user error pointed out.
If we keep doing this diligently cause by cause, maybe we will eventually be able to address (almost) all of the causes and make Reaper a smooth environment for MIDI work.
In one point I agree with jmorel. Wherever possible things shouln’t be fixed by sending extra note-offs, but by not sending unnecessary note-ons. The duplicating take fix is such a case.
When duplicating a midi take, the exact same data is continuing to play, logically, it’s a copy after all and nothing really changed, including the timing.
So there should be no need to stop and restart a note that happens to run at the point we duplicate. Reaper could just let that note run without a new note-on and rely on the fact that the note-off is coming anyway, because it’s a duplicate of the take that was previously active.
It would a) sound better, because there is no new trigger at an unrelated point in time and b) spare a whopping two messages from the midi stream.
Man, I mean, there's enough people that posted issues with stuck notes to know, by today, that there are stuck notes issues.
I have used Reaper so far for over 5 years, and the latest changes done have done barely anything to alleviate the issue. In fact, every time I press play, or do other changes in the play environment, we have initial lag time as apparently there is some sort of emergency "send note offs to everything in I have" type of process, like a blind person with a rail gun.
I mean, there is a lot of intelligence in Reaper, the way it evolved, and the way it works, a lot of it is intelligent. But for some reason, midi messages, and handling midi instruments is not it's forte. Doing guesswork on how to handle note offs is absurd. This is subject for a study on it's own.
Take for example handling a railroad with 128 trains. Obviously, you don't want to just imagine "there are trains on the tracks" and just scream out "EMERGENCY STOP EVERYONE" just for the heck of it whenever your eye balls rotate one degree. Stuff like this has to be done intelligently.
Gofer mentions; well we should not do note offs because we won't do a note on, and hey let's save two midi messages, is just the type of shortsightedness the reaper devs require to mess it up an extra notch.
At some point, I will spend the extra dollar and move out of this mess as I had enough of this way too many times, years... The last few changes I seen in Reaper had to do with MP3 tags, and that brought me back to WinAmp days.
Yeah, is Reaper just a huge *ass version of Winamp or an actual DAW ? That's my inside view, like or hate it.
Not to belittle problems people are having with this, but I'd just like to interject a different user experience. Stuck notes were largely fixed for me somewhere in the V5 dev cycle. They are a rare problem nowadays on my setup.
In fact, every time I press play, or do other changes in the play environment, we have initial lag time as apparently there is some sort of emergency "send note offs to everything in I have" type of process, like a blind person with a rail gun.
What makes you think there’s a correlation between the lag you experience and note-offs? If that is the case, it should be easy to show with a MIDI logger. I am sure if you did that and reported, ideally with a screen capture of the logger listing note-offs while you wait for the playback to start, the devs would be quick to look for a solution.
Note-hangs happen, no doubt, but they obviously happen under specific circumstances and specific instruments on the receiving side. Lots of, if not most, people never or seldom experience them. The people saying they can’t reproduce an issue are not doubting what you say, just telling you what they see. Be more specific and people (more importantly devs) are more likely to be able to see the issue.
In fact, every time I press play, or do other changes in the play environment, we have initial lag time as apparently there is some sort of emergency "send note offs to everything in I have" type of process, like a blind person with a rail gun.
Boy, I wonder if this setting might have something to do with it?
You'll want that one disabled if you have it enabled.
When sending Midi from 2 different tracks to 1 receive, midi notes remain on sometimes (specially when seeking). Here in a video it is self-explanatory:
Probably happens when some note ons start overlapping.
As you have probably much broader knowledge about Midi than me, do you think Cockos could find a workaround or fix for this, or is this to be considered user error and would happen in all DAWs that allow routing multiple Midi tracks to one receiving track?
I mean sure it could probably be fixed, but in general you probably don't want to send the same note at roughly the same time over the same MIDI channel from two different tracks into one instrument...
My take on it is that plugin and hardware MIDI instrument developers should be much more responsible with how they deal with note-offs instead of forcing hosts and sequencers to be abundantly sending note-off messages. It’s clear that a single note off should be enough to stop all notes of that number and channel. I understand if devices from the baby years of MIDi didn’t anticipate issues, but nowadays it should be basic behavior to handle this right.
We were talking about keyboards with triple sensors, won’t those inevitably cause hanging notes with those faulty instruments frequently?
IMO those devs who put faulty note counters into their instruments should be flamed with bug reports.
Things have improved a lot with 6.11 I must say (yay!) but I do still get an occasional stuck note, and the note off action doesn't do anything. Happens with Voltage Modular (VST3). I have never ever had a stuck MIDI note happen in FL Studio (and I use it daily, also using the same VSTs I use in Reaper). In my experience, this happens mostly when I am doing overdub recordings in loop mode, have input quantization activated, and click somewhere within the loop selection in the arrange panel.
I stopped using Reaper due to stuck notes. Try using hardware synths and stuck notes happen all the time. Try a DX7 and you'll get a cacophony of stuck notes. It seems worse with older synths. Using other DAWs such as Logic or Bitwig results in no stuck notes even with the DX7 and I have tested on both OSX and Linux with different hardware interfaces.
How should Reaper know hardware is attached at the other end of the Midi cable ?
-Michael (Not using hardware synths, no stuick notes at all with VSTIs)
Reaper can’t know but there could theoretically be something wrong with how it sends out midi information. I’m no expert at all on midi so I don’t know what could go wrong but if people say they have this problem only with Reaper I wouldn’t exclude it as possible culprit.
I mean sure it could probably be fixed, but in general you probably don't want to send the same note at roughly the same time over the same MIDI channel from two different tracks into one instrument...
Actually, I do this all the time, layering.
And yes, stuck notes happen quite a bit. Mainly with the play engine from EW. However, stuck notes never happen with shorts, always legato notes for some reason. I guess the 'luck percentage' is way higher to stop a track from playing during a longer note
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A sequence Note-On - Note-On - Note-Off - Note-Off (or similar) with the same note can be introduced if sending from two tracks. This might be miss-interpreted by certain devices.
To find the culprit you would need to use some equipment recording the midi stream at different points.
There is also event timestamping in Reaper, so really not sure what you're talking about.
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