Control Surface Integration (CSI) Technical Feature Discussion

[Funkybot]

I'm trying to map out (in advance) what I might want to do with the MIDI Fighter Twister in CSI. Consider this a proposed layout and very open for discussion/suggestions. My idea is that there would be 4 pages: a channel/transport page, a page with some global options (screen sets, undo, browser, etc.), one page dedicated to mixer/pans, and the last page reserved for sends. The first two would make heavy use of button states, the last two use a combination of buttons and encoders. Keep in mind, each MFT encoder can be a button, a single CC encoder, and/or a dual-CC encoder and there's 4 banks of encoders per unit.

I'd reserve the middle side-buttons for banking the mixer channels so you could further expand the 8 channels on those pages. Remember though: there's no LEDs (other than colors) to label things, so I want a design that a person could commit to muscle memory. I didn't include a Shift button, for instance, because I feel like this is already a lot of control but if someone could make a compelling case for other things being needed, I'm open to change.

Would this mapping make sense to people? Any ideas about things to add, or remove? Got a compelling argument to make about what should change? What about the page order?

See the attached jpgs for details on the proposed mapping.

[lubvic]

Hi guys, sorry for the stupid question... after all this time i'm used to CSI, everything works like charm, all fx .zon's written... except Waves plugins, i'm not able to control them, what i am missing? maybe VST name?


example of . zon:


Zone "VST: L1 limiter Mono (Waves)" L1 limiter Mono

SelectedTrackNavigator

Rotary1 FXParam 2 "Threshold"
DisplayUpper1 FXParamNameDisplay 2 "Threshold"
DisplayLower1 FXParamValueDisplay 2
Select1 NoAction
Toggle+Mute1 NoAction
Solo1 NoAction
Fader1 NoAction
Shift+Select1 FXParam "Bypass"
...
...

Can someone point in the right direction?
Thanks!

[Freex]

Has the output ZoneRawFXFiles been dumped?

Doesn't seem to work anymore!!!!

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by Freex

Has the output ZoneRawFXFiles been dumped?

Doesn't seem to work anymore!!!!

Hi, I think it might be broken, for now you can work around it -- open Learn Mode Window -- check monitoring for FX --- insert FX -- copy from ReaConsole.

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by lubvic

Hi guys, sorry for the stupid question... after all this time i'm used to CSI, everything works like charm, all fx .zon's written... except Waves plugins, i'm not able to control them, what i am missing? maybe VST name?


example of . zon:


Zone "VST: L1 limiter Mono (Waves)" L1 limiter Mono

SelectedTrackNavigator

Rotary1 FXParam 2 "Threshold"
DisplayUpper1 FXParamNameDisplay 2 "Threshold"
DisplayLower1 FXParamValueDisplay 2
Select1 NoAction
Toggle+Mute1 NoAction
Solo1 NoAction
Fader1 NoAction
Shift+Select1 FXParam "Bypass"
...
...

Can someone point in the right direction?
Thanks!

What happens when you open Learn Mode Window and check monitor FX, then insert one -- do you see the parameter names you expect ?

[lubvic]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

What happens when you open Learn Mode Window and check monitor FX, then insert one -- do you see the parameter names you expect ?

Hi Geoff,
When i open learn mode (monitor FX checked) and insert a waves plugin, nothing shows up, can anyone of you control these plugins? If yes, how?

[Funkybot]

Originally Posted by lubvic

Hi Geoff,
When i open learn mode (monitor FX checked) and insert a waves plugin, nothing shows up, can anyone of you control these plugins? If yes, how?

Maybe it has to do with "Waves Shell" (AKA Waves Hell). I'm wondering if some communication between Reaper and CSI isn't locating plugins parameters because the plugins don't have their own .dll's but rather all appear under Waves Shell. Anyway, just a thought.

I feel like a prior build of CSI had FXParameters actually appear in the action list of the CSI log screen. If I didn't just make that up, then I can't get that to happen anymore (on Windows). If I check the box to show the FX Parameter list on insert, they'll appear in the log window (including my Waves plugins), but I can't get the FX parameters to show up in the main window. I'm just treating things like this as work in progress/alpha type issues for now. Maybe that's what Geoff was referencing about RawFXDumps being potentially broken.

[Funkybot]

Geoff, I'm seeing an issue with TwoState widgets where I might need to press the button an extra time for it to turn off. Here's my widget:

Widget Play
Press B1 0F 7F
FB_TwoState B1 0F 7F B1 0F 00
WidgetEnd

When I map that Play, then press the button:

1. First button press, Play occurs, playback button light turns on as expected
2. While still playing, second button press does nothing, light on device stays on, playback continues
3. Press button a third time, playback stops, playback light goes off

Any idea why a third play button press might be required? Here's the MIDI data:

Button press 1:
Received Message: b1 0f 7f

Button press 2:
Received Message: b1 0f 00

So this time, the device output looks exactly as I'd expect, which makes me think something in the press or feedback functionality in CSI is requiring a third press.

And happy holidays everyone!

[MixMonkey]

Originally Posted by lubvic

Zone "VST: L1 limiter Mono (Waves)" L1 limiter Mono

SelectedTrackNavigator

Rotary1 FXParam 2 "Threshold"
DisplayUpper1 FXParamNameDisplay 2 "Threshold"
DisplayLower1 FXParamValueDisplay 2
Select1 NoAction
Toggle+Mute1 NoAction
Solo1 NoAction
Fader1 NoAction
Shift+Select1 FXParam "Bypass"
...
...

Can someone point in the right direction?
Thanks!

Get rid of the spaces in the highlighted above or use "".

Waves plugins are a little flakey wrt to control via automation parameters. Some of the controls work, some don't.

They all suffer from "The Curse of Three" where controls that have three possible values will only allow the first and last to be selected.

I experimented with VST3 for a while and whilst it does perform better with the controls, it suffers from the VST3 bug that causes the plugin to suddenly stop accepting any input from the surface (this isn't solely a Waves problem), although the feedback path (on screen control to surface) still works.

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by Funkybot

Geoff, I'm seeing an issue with TwoState widgets where I might need to press the button an extra time for it to turn off. Here's my widget:

Widget Play
Press B1 0F 7F
FB_TwoState B1 0F 7F B1 0F 00
WidgetEnd

When I map that Play, then press the button:

1. First button press, Play occurs, playback button light turns on as expected
2. While still playing, second button press does nothing, light on device stays on, playback continues
3. Press button a third time, playback stops, playback light goes off

Any idea why a third play button press might be required? Here's the MIDI data:

Button press 1:
Received Message: b1 0f 7f

Button press 2:
Received Message: b1 0f 00

So this time, the device output looks exactly as I'd expect, which makes me think something in the press or feedback functionality in CSI is requiring a third press.

And happy holidays everyone!

Well.. device output doesn't look like I'd expect

A dumb switch would send b1 0f 7f on a press and b1 0f 00 on release -- NOT on the next press.

If you think about it, that means the button remembered that it was pressed a while back -- UGGGHHH.

That means it has state, it's not dumb -- that's a bad thing.

Console 1 and a few others do this, so, fortunately there is a remedy

Instead of Press just use AnyPress.

[Funkybot]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

Well.. device output doesn't look like I'd expect

A dumb switch would send b1 0f 7f on a press and b1 0f 00 on release -- NOT on the next press.

If you think about it, that means the button remembered that it was pressed a while back -- UGGGHHH.

THE MFTwister can be configured either way but I run into a different issue with the FB state when it's configured to send b1 0f 7f and b1 0f 00 on button press/release: the light on the device that I'm using to indicate playback stays on when configured this way. The other way, the light stays in sync.

I'll try AnyPress instead.

EDIT: I'll change the MFTwister mode to work as described and just stick to press. It works as expected.

[airon]

I use the MFT to trigger Send Mute toggles, using Note Hold iirc. Set this up in the Midi Editor of DJ Techtools stuff. Have yet to use it in CSI. The last time I tried the encoders in endless mode wouldn't work. It does work now, correct ?

[poetnprophet]

Originally Posted by lubvic

Hi Geoff,
When i open learn mode (monitor FX checked) and insert a waves plugin, nothing shows up, can anyone of you control these plugins? If yes, how?

Hi, I haven't had any issues with Waves: CLA 76, SSL ch, SSL Comp, just to name a few. You have to enter the name (in quotes) exactly as it shows on the FX window.

As someone mentioned, sometimes it looks like there's a space, but there isn't...or vice versa. I'm not able to look at my files right now, but that part used to get me in the beginning.

[KuulArt]

Hi, I am still battling with this iphone lemur template.

I do not understand how I can set the fader touch state in CSI correctly.
Here is my zone file

Zone Home
    OnTrackSelection MapSelectedTrackSendsToWidgets
	IncludedZones
		Fader
	IncludedZonesEnd
ZoneEnd

Zone Fader
    SelectedTrackNavigator
    OnTrackSelection MapSelectedTrackSendsToWidgets
    Fader TrackVolume
	TrackTouch+Fader TrackVolume
    FaderTouch TrackTouch
	Write TrackAutoMode 3
	Trim TrackAutoMode 0
	Touch TrackAutoMode 2
	Latch TrackAutoMode 4
ZoneEnd

and here is my surface config

Widget ShowFXWindows
	Control /ShowFXWindows
	FB_Processor /ShowFXWindows
WidgetEnd

Widget Fader
	Control /fader/fader
	FB_Processor /fader/fader
WidgetEnd

Widget FaderTouch
	Control /fader/touch
WidgetEnd

Widget Trim
	Control /Trim
	FB_Processor /Trim
WidgetEnd

Widget Touch
	Control /Touch
	FB_Processor /Touch
WidgetEnd

Widget Latch
	Control /Latch
	FB_Processor /Latch
WidgetEnd

Widget LatchPreview
	Control /LatchPreview
	FB_Processor /LatchPreview
WidgetEnd

Widget Write
	Control /Write
	FB_Processor /Write
WidgetEnd

The FaderTouch widget receives 1 when the fader is touched in Lemur controller and 0 when I release it. I checked that FP16 is using a combination of TrackTouch+Fader TrackVolume which seems to be related to this. But it is MIDI based and I am not sure how the FaderTouch widget works there.

If this works out I can share this simple lemur controller that can be used to write volume automations.

[Funkybot]

Originally Posted by airon

I use the MFT...The last time I tried the encoders in endless mode wouldn't work. It does work now, correct ?

I'm having issues with the Ecnoders in Endless Rotary mode. Maybe Geoff can chime in.

Problem
If I map an Endless Encoder from the MFTwister to the Gain in a ReaEQ band: 1) the response is backwards (twisting the knob clockwise decreases the gain, turning the knob counter-clockwise increases the gain) and 2) small counter-clockwise turns result in BIG, BIG jumps in the value. So it'll decrease gain in .1db steps, but if I reverse direction that first b0 01 3f value will result in a huge jump in gain.

Maybe it's a setup or syntax issue, or some incompatibility with the "Encoder 3FH/41H" mode of the MFTwister. Using the most up-to-date firmware. Or maybe a new Encoder3FH/41H widget in CSI would be needed to fix this without breaking other encoder types.

Here are the relevant sections...

From MFT Log

Increase steps...
Received Message: b0 00 41

Decrease steps... 
Received Message: b0 01 3f

From .mst

Widget Rotary2
	Encoder b0 01 7f
	FB_Encoder b0 01 00
WidgetEnd

Note: I've tried b0 01 7f for both values. I've tried combinations of b0 01 41 and b0 01 3f for those values. No luck getting this to work yet via trial an error. Also, the CMC-QC which transmits bX XX 01 (for clockwise) and bX xx 41 (for counter-clockwise) works just fine.

From ReaEQ.zon

Zone "VST: ReaEQ"
FocusedFXNavigator

Rotary1 FXParam "4"
Rotary2 FXParam "7"

ZoneEnd

[airon]

We‘ll simply need to wait for Geoff to chime in.

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by KuulArt

Hi, I am still battling with this iphone lemur template.

I do not understand how I can set the fader touch state in CSI correctly.
Here is my zone file

Zone Home
    OnTrackSelection MapSelectedTrackSendsToWidgets
	IncludedZones
		Fader
	IncludedZonesEnd
ZoneEnd

Zone Fader
    SelectedTrackNavigator
    OnTrackSelection MapSelectedTrackSendsToWidgets
    Fader TrackVolume
	TrackTouch+Fader TrackVolume
    FaderTouch TrackTouch
	Write TrackAutoMode 3
	Trim TrackAutoMode 0
	Touch TrackAutoMode 2
	Latch TrackAutoMode 4
ZoneEnd

and here is my surface config

Widget ShowFXWindows
	Control /ShowFXWindows
	FB_Processor /ShowFXWindows
WidgetEnd

Widget Fader
	Control /fader/fader
	FB_Processor /fader/fader
WidgetEnd

Widget FaderTouch
	Control /fader/touch
WidgetEnd

Widget Trim
	Control /Trim
	FB_Processor /Trim
WidgetEnd

Widget Touch
	Control /Touch
	FB_Processor /Touch
WidgetEnd

Widget Latch
	Control /Latch
	FB_Processor /Latch
WidgetEnd

Widget LatchPreview
	Control /LatchPreview
	FB_Processor /LatchPreview
WidgetEnd

Widget Write
	Control /Write
	FB_Processor /Write
WidgetEnd

The FaderTouch widget receives 1 when the fader is touched in Lemur controller and 0 when I release it. I checked that FP16 is using a combination of TrackTouch+Fader TrackVolume which seems to be related to this. But it is MIDI based and I am not sure how the FaderTouch widget works there.

If this works out I can share this simple lemur controller that can be used to write volume automations.

Yeah, Touch only works with TrackNavigator right now.

Looking at the code, I see Touch and Pin were specifically disabled on SelectedTrackNavigator and FocusedFXNavigator, anyone remember why we did this ?

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by Funkybot

I'm having issues with the Ecnoders in Endless Rotary mode. Maybe Geoff can chime in.

Problem
If I map an Endless Encoder from the MFTwister to the Gain in a ReaEQ band: 1) the response is backwards (twisting the knob clockwise decreases the gain, turning the knob counter-clockwise increases the gain) and 2) small counter-clockwise turns result in BIG, BIG jumps in the value. So it'll decrease gain in .1db steps, but if I reverse direction that first b0 01 3f value will result in a huge jump in gain.

Maybe it's a setup or syntax issue, or some incompatibility with the "Encoder 3FH/41H" mode of the MFTwister. Using the most up-to-date firmware. Or maybe a new Encoder3FH/41H widget in CSI would be needed to fix this without breaking other encoder types.

Here are the relevant sections...

From MFT Log

Increase steps...
Received Message: b0 00 41

Decrease steps... 
Received Message: b0 01 3f

From .mst

Widget Rotary2
	Encoder b0 01 7f
	FB_Encoder b0 01 00
WidgetEnd

Note: I've tried b0 01 7f for both values. I've tried combinations of b0 01 41 and b0 01 3f for those values. No luck getting this to work yet via trial an error. Also, the CMC-QC which transmits bX XX 01 (for clockwise) and bX xx 41 (for counter-clockwise) works just fine.

From ReaEQ.zon

Zone "VST: ReaEQ"
FocusedFXNavigator

Rotary1 FXParam "4"
Rotary2 FXParam "7"

ZoneEnd

Yup, you've hit the "built in acceleration" design issue.

As you see with the CMC-QC most surfaces use the 01H/41H variant.

If you could get MFTwister to do that, you would be fine.

That raises the question, why doesn't CSI just look for the 4 bit set (as in 41) and ignore the rest so that 3FH and 01H are indistinguishable and everything just works ?

The answer is -- built in surface acceleration.

Some surfaces send out 01H, 03H, 05H, etc. depending on how fast the knob is turned.

That allows for fine adjustment with slow turns and larger movements with faster turns.

What we really need, as you say, and this has been discussed, is a Widget the treats 01H and 03H the same -- a non accelerated version.

There are also plans for software acceleration for devices that just put out one value.

Looks like I need to get to work on the non accelerated version pronto for MFT users among others

[Geoff Waddington]

New build is up.

Touch and Pin now supported for SelectedTrackNavigator and FocusedFXNavigator.

New Midi Widget — EncoderPlain — no acceleration.

Input monitor improved — now shows name if mapped, raw message if not mapped.

Don’t forget this is still alpha, use at own risk

[Funkybot]

Hi Geoff, I'll check out the new EncoderPlain mode and report back. EDIT: can't seem to get EncoderPlain to work at all. The encoders become completely non-functional if I use this. Not sure if it's my syntax a bug, or if I'm just jumping the gun on an unfinished feature.

Just some background: the MFTwister has a standard CC option for the encoders which make them behave like a standard rotary/fader, and an encoder mode called "Encoder 3FH/41H." It can also transmit notes and fake mouse movements on Mac but those aren't really relevant. Note: the firmware is publicly available if you ever feel like taking a look (https://github.com/DJ-TechTools/Midi...er_Open_Source).

The MFTwister Utility has an additional "Sensitivity" control with 3 options: 1) High Resolution, 2) Responsive, and 3) Velocity Sensitive. The first two options work as described/shown in my last post, but the "Velocity Sensitive" mode sends out different data. I think that's because the "Velocity Sensitive" mode actually has some encoder acceleration built in like you described, but this mode wasn't working well with the standard encoder widget either.

I'm not sure if this will help you at all, but here's what the output of the various modes looks like:

Encoder 3FH/41H + "High Resolution" or "Responsive" Sensitivity (same for both):

Increase: b0 00 41
Decrease: b0 00 3f

Encoder 3FH/41H + Velocity Sensitive:

Fine Increase: b0 00 41
Fine Decrease: b0 00 3f

Quick Increase [about a half turn]:

1: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 41
2: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 47
3: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 46
4: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 4D
5: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 45
6: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 4D
7: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 4A
8: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 4D
9: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 4A
10: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 4D
11: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 51
12: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 4D
13: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 4D
14: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 51
15: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 51
16: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 4D
17: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 51
18: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 4D
19: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 51
20: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 4D
21: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 51
22: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 4D
23: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 51
24: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 4D
25: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 51
26: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 51
27: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 51
28: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 51
29: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 51
30: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 51
31: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 51
32: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 51
33: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 51
34: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 51
35: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 51
36: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 51
37: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 51
38: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 51
39: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 51
40: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 51
41: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 51
42: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 51
43: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 51
44: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 48
45: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 51
46: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 4A
47: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 51
48: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 48
49: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 4D
50: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 48
51: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 51
52: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 47
53: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 4D
54: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 4A
55: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 51
56: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 4D
57: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 4D
58: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 51
59: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 51
60: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 4A
61: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 4D
62: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 48
63: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 4D

Quick Decrease[about a half turn]:

1: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 3F
2: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 3F
3: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 3D
4: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 33
5: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 39
6: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 39
7: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 36
8: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 33
9: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 33
10: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 38
11: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 33
12: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 2F
13: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 36
14: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 36
15: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 33
16: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 2F
17: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 33
18: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 36
19: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 2F
20: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 2F
21: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 2F
22: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 33
23: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 2F
24: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 2F
25: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 2F
26: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 2F
27: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 2F
28: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 2F
29: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 2F
30: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 2F
31: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 2F
32: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 2F
33: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 2F
34: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 2F
35: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 2F
36: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 2F
37: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 2F
38: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 2F
39: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 2F
40: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 2F
41: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 33
42: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 36
43: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 3A
44: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 38
45: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 3D
46: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 3F
47: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 39
48: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 36
49: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 36
50: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 36
51: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 2F
52: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 2F
53: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 33
54: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 38
55: MIDI IN [Midi Fighter Twister]: B0 00 3E

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by Funkybot

Hi Geoff, I'll check out the new EncoderPlain mode and report back. EDIT: can't seem to get EncoderPlain to work at all. The encoders become completely non-functional if I use this. Not sure if it's my syntax a bug, or if I'm just jumping the gun on an unfinished feature.

[Edit] Oops, fixing...

[Geoff Waddington]

New build is up.

I think this one actually has EncoderPlain

[Funkybot]

Geoff, if I have "Sync Zones Across Surfaces" off, and two surfaces with controls for Channels|1-8, I'd expect that channels 1-8 appear on both surfaces. However, my RemoteZeroSL and MFTwister were still working in tandem even with that off. So the RemoteZeroSL was taking channels 1-8 and the MFTwister was starting on channel 9 no matter what I did. Banking on the MFTwiser wasn't working at the time either. Now that might be good if Sync Zones Across Surfaces was on, but if it's off, I'd expect it to mirror the channels.

Removing everything but the MFTwister from CSI fixed it and now I can access channels 1-8 and banking works as expected.

Is that another potential bug or am I just misunderstanding how mulitple surfaces tie together in CSI? Here's the CSI.ini in question:

Page "Home" FollowMCP NoSynchPages UseScrollLink NoTrackColoring 39 255 45
MidiSurface "CMC-QC2" 10 11 "Stienberg_CMC-QC-2.mst" "Stienberg_CMC-QC-2" NoZoneLink AutoMapSends NoAutoMapFX NoAutoMapFXMenu AutoMapFocusedFX 
MidiSurface "RemoteZeroSL" 0 1 "RemoteZeroSL.mst" "RemoteZeroSL" NoZoneLink AutoMapSends NoAutoMapFX NoAutoMapFXMenu AutoMapFocusedFX 
MidiSurface "MFTwister" 7 8 "MIDIFighterTwister.mst" "MIDIFighterTwister" NoZoneLink AutoMapSends NoAutoMapFX NoAutoMapFXMenu AutoMapFocusedFX

[Funkybot]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

New build is up.

I think this one actually has EncoderPlain

Hi Geoff, it's almost there but everything is backwards. Up is down, down is up, left is right, and right is left.

Example:

1. I have Encoder1 mapped to Gain in ReaEQ. Increasing the knob decreases the gain. Decreasing the knob increases the gain.

2. I have Encoder5 mapped to Freq in ReaEQ. Increasing the knob decreases the frequency. Decreasing the knob increases the frequency.

I saw the same reversed behavior when previously playing with encoders on the MFTwister.

I suppose I could put the unit upside down on my desk.

Thanks!

EDIT: here's the Widget (in case I'm doing something wrong):

Widget Rotary1
	EncoderPlain b0 00 7f
	FB_EncoderPlain b0 00 00
WidgetEnd

[Funkybot]

Issue #2 with EncoderPlain: it seems to have zero effect on Pan. Works on TrackVolume (albeit with lots of twisting due to the resolution) but doesn't seem to do anything at all on TrackPan no matter how much twisting you do.

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by Funkybot

Geoff, if I have "Sync Zones Across Surfaces" off, and two surfaces with controls for Channels|1-8, I'd expect that channels 1-8 appear on both surfaces. However, my RemoteZeroSL and MFTwister were still working in tandem even with that off. So the RemoteZeroSL was taking channels 1-8 and the MFTwister was starting on channel 9 no matter what I did. Banking on the MFTwiser wasn't working at the time either. Now that might be good if Sync Zones Across Surfaces was on, but if it's off, I'd expect it to mirror the channels.

Removing everything but the MFTwister from CSI fixed it and now I can access channels 1-8 and banking works as expected.

Is that another potential bug or am I just misunderstanding how mulitple surfaces tie together in CSI? Here's the CSI.ini in question:

Page "Home" FollowMCP NoSynchPages UseScrollLink NoTrackColoring 39 255 45
MidiSurface "CMC-QC2" 10 11 "Stienberg_CMC-QC-2.mst" "Stienberg_CMC-QC-2" NoZoneLink AutoMapSends NoAutoMapFX NoAutoMapFXMenu AutoMapFocusedFX 
MidiSurface "RemoteZeroSL" 0 1 "RemoteZeroSL.mst" "RemoteZeroSL" NoZoneLink AutoMapSends NoAutoMapFX NoAutoMapFXMenu AutoMapFocusedFX 
MidiSurface "MFTwister" 7 8 "MIDIFighterTwister.mst" "MIDIFighterTwister" NoZoneLink AutoMapSends NoAutoMapFX NoAutoMapFXMenu AutoMapFocusedFX

"Sync Zones Across Surfaces" has nothing to do with banking.

It's meant for a large FX that has so many params that it needs to map across multiple surfaces.

The only affect CSI.ini has on banking is the order in which the surfaces appear.

The rest is all done in the Zones.

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by Funkybot

Hi Geoff, it's almost there but everything is backwards. Up is down, down is up, left is right, and right is left.

Example:

1. I have Encoder1 mapped to Gain in ReaEQ. Increasing the knob decreases the gain. Decreasing the knob increases the gain.

2. I have Encoder5 mapped to Freq in ReaEQ. Increasing the knob decreases the frequency. Decreasing the knob increases the frequency.

I saw the same reversed behavior when previously playing with encoders on the MFTwister.

I suppose I could put the unit upside down on my desk.

Thanks!

EDIT: here's the Widget (in case I'm doing something wrong):

Widget Rotary1
	EncoderPlain b0 00 7f
	FB_EncoderPlain b0 00 00
WidgetEnd

Ok, so we need a EncoderPlainBackwards too ?

Seriously, try this in your .zon file:

    Invert+SomeRotary SomeAction

FB_EncoderPlain does not exist, you just need FB_Encoder.

[Funkybot]

Thanks Geoff. Got the encoders working as expected now except for TrackPan. There are two issues:

1. TrackPan isn't working at all using the below setup
2. The Encoder Feedback for pan isn't working either (change Pan in reaper, encoder pan doesn't update)

Pan works great with Rotary mode. But something is up with Pan+Encoder.

Here's the .mst:

Widget Pan1
	EncoderPlain b0 20 7f
	FB_Encoder b0 20 00
WidgetEnd

Here's the relevant .zon section

Zone Channel|1-8
	TrackNavigator
	Invert+Pan| TrackPan 0
	Solo|  TrackSolo
	Mute| TrackMute
	Invert+Fader|  TrackVolume
ZoneEnd

If I remove the "0" after TrackPan in the .zon file, the pan knobs become responsive again, but as soon as I touch an encoder it will pan things hard to right to start and the FB is incorrect. Is there a chance Invert+Pan and the 0 is throwing CSI off?

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by Funkybot

If I remove the "0" after TrackPan in the .zon file, the pan knobs become responsive again, but as soon as I touch an encoder it will pan things hard to right to start and the FB is incorrect.

Thanks for testing !

The invert section needs a redesign to take relative actions (encoders) into account, it was originally designed for simple switches (1 and 0).

[Funkybot]

If anyone's interested, here is detailed documentation on how I'm setting up my MIDI Fighter Twister using CSI. I'm just about done and will share once ready. Absent any major issues or better ideas, the only thing that may change in the future is the pans going from fader widgets to encoders.

Was creating detailed instructions necessary? No. Overkill? Most definitely. But I figured I'd play around in Affinity Publisher and learn by doing.

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by Funkybot

If anyone's interested, here is detailed documentation on how I'm setting up my MIDI Fighter Twister using CSI. I'm just about done and will share once ready. Absent any major issues or better ideas, the only thing that may change in the future is the pans going from fader widgets to encoders.

Was creating detailed instructions necessary? No. Overkill? Most definitely. But I figured I'd play around in Affinity Publisher and learn by doing.

Cool.

Judging from the setup instructions, when you say Pages you mean some kind of MFT thing, not CSI Pages, right ?

Might be an idea to make a clear distinction in the doc...

[Geoff Waddington]

New builds are up.

Yup, time for an early EuCon "Shakedown cruise"

For EuCon, you need dlls/dylibs from both links in the sig below.

Then, just fire up CSI config, and set up your EuCon -- accept defaults at first if you are not sure.

Channels, Pan and Transport should work fine.

Sends/Auxes are totally broken, but you can push Auxes and see something on the displays.

Any brave souls out there ?

[KuulArt]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

New build is up.

Touch and Pin now supported for SelectedTrackNavigator and FocusedFXNavigator.

New Midi Widget — EncoderPlain — no acceleration.

Input monitor improved — now shows name if mapped, raw message if not mapped.

Don’t forget this is still alpha, use at own risk

After this update REAPER does not receive OSC input from my controller. I can see that controller is being updated on track selection with correct touch state and fader value but my changes from Lemur app are not registered in REAPER. I am double checking if port is being used, but it seems that all is fine on my end.

I will continue investigation thou.

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by KuulArt

After this update REAPER does not receive OSC input from my controller. I can see that controller is being updated on track selection with correct touch state and fader value but my changes from Lemur app are not registered in REAPER. I am double checking if port is being used, but it seems that all is fine on my end.

I will continue investigation thou.

Working fine here.

When this happens to me I usually check IP addresses and ports, maybe something changed ?

[KuulArt]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

Working fine here.

When this happens to me I usually check IP addresses and ports, maybe something changed ?

Ohh snap, it was IP. I checked only ports. Thank you for reply.

But the touch mode still does not work. How is it supposed to work? I have /fader/touch sending 1 when I touch it and sends 0 when release.

Also I seem to not be able to switch tracks with this code:

Widget NextTrack
	Control /NextTrack
	FB_Processor /NextTrack
WidgetEnd

Widget PreviousTrack
	Control /PreviousTrack
	FB_Processor /PreviousTrack
WidgetEnd

    PreviousTrack TrackBank "-1"
    NextTrack TrackBank "1"

I somewhere saw ControlWithRelease - what is this?

[Funkybot]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

Cool.

Judging from the setup instructions, when you say Pages you mean some kind of MFT thing, not CSI Pages, right ?

Might be an idea to make a clear distinction in the doc...

Yes, the pages in the manual are an MFT thing. I go back and forth whether to call them banks or pages. Or maybe just further clarify the distinction between how I use the term page in the manual and CSI. Thanks for the feedback. I'll be checking out the Eucon shortly for use with my Artist mix.

If anyone has any other feedback or some suggestions on the mapping, I'm very open to ideas.

[Funkybot]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

New builds are up.

Yup, time for an early EuCon "Shakedown cruise"

For EuCon, you need dlls/dylibs from both links in the sig below.

Then, just fire up CSI config, and set up your EuCon -- accept defaults at first if you are not sure.

Channels, Pan and Transport should work fine.

Sends/Auxes are totally broken, but you can push Auxes and see something on the displays.

Any brave souls out there ?

Geoff, I'm getting nothing from Artist Mix here. Here's what I did:

1. Installed the file reaper_csurf_eucon64.dll to my Reaper (x64)\Plugins directory*
2. Installed the new reaper_csurf_integrator64.dll file to the same directory
3. Installed the CSI folders to the Roaming directory

4. Launched Reaper
5. Removed the old/existing Eucon entry from Control Surfaces in preferences (i.e. your original Eucon adapter)
6. Double clicked on CSI to begin that process
7. Selected Add Eucon -> Eucon
8. Clicked ok
9. Restarted Reaper, loaded a project...

Result: no response from Reaper to the surface. I double checked and launched Cubase, and Eucon immediately kicked off as expected. Nothing happening in the "CSI Learn" window either - there's no input from the surface. Was I not supposed to delete the old Eucon controller?

*The old Eucon file called _csurf_eucon_64.dll is still there along with the new _csurf_eucon64.dll.

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by Funkybot

Geoff, I'm getting nothing from Artist Mix here. Here's what I did:

1. Installed the file reaper_csurf_eucon64.dll to my Reaper (x64)\Plugins directory*
2. Installed the new reaper_csurf_integrator64.dll file to the same directory
3. Installed the CSI folders to the Roaming directory

4. Launched Reaper
5. Removed the old/existing Eucon entry from Control Surfaces in preferences (i.e. your original Eucon adapter)
6. Double clicked on CSI to begin that process
7. Selected Add Eucon -> Eucon
8. Clicked ok
9. Restarted Reaper, loaded a project...

Result: no response from Reaper to the surface. I double checked and launched Cubase, and Eucon immediately kicked off as expected. Nothing happening in the "CSI Learn" window either - there's no input from the surface. Was I not supposed to delete the old Eucon controller?

*The old Eucon file called _csurf_eucon_64.dll is still there along with the new _csurf_eucon64.dll.

Oops, yes, should remove the old dll.

You also need to install EuCon just like before, but with the new EuCon dll -- in addition to installing EuCon in CSI.

[Funkybot]

Ok, so here's where I'm at...

1. Only have the new Eucon.dll installed in Reaper's plugin folder
2. Removed every other surface and restarted Reaper (wanted to start fresh)
3. Added the Eucon surface in Preferences
4. Added CSI+Eucon surface
5. Restarted Reaper
6. Loaded a project

Result: Eucon crash. A box popped up behind Reaper offering to send the crash log to Avid or save it. I saved it and attached it. At some point in all of this ReaConsole appeared with a warning about Send8 zone already existing. Not sure if that's relevant.

Geoff, I'm not sure if you can do anything with it, but I've attached the crash log.

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by Funkybot

Ok, so here's where I'm at...

1. Only have the new Eucon.dll installed in Reaper's plugin folder
2. Removed every other surface and restarted Reaper (wanted to start fresh)
3. Added the Eucon surface in Preferences
4. Added CSI+Eucon surface
5. Restarted Reaper
6. Loaded a project

Result: Eucon crash. A box popped up behind Reaper offering to send the crash log to Avid or save it. I saved it and attached it. At some point in all of this ReaConsole appeared with a warning about Send8 zone already existing. Not sure if that's relevant.

Geoff, I'm not sure if you can do anything with it, but I've attached the crash log.

Don't know if we already discussed this, but you also need the new CSI folder -- don't forget to back up anything you want to keep, before clobbering it

OK, looks like you are running the same version of EuControl 19.12.1.build 23.

The difference is that you are on Windows...

Can't test Windows here, but...

Let's try this order:

PreReq -- new EuCon dll and new CSI dll in appropriate place.

Install CSI, but not EuCon yet.

Now install the EuCon dll.

Now back to CSI to add EuCon.

Doubt it will matter, but that's the way it was installed here and it works fine (albeit on Mac).

The Zone already existing message is indicative of a duplicate .zon file -- did you change the EuCon Zone folder at all ?

[Edit] Forgot to mention, I've had EuControl 19.12.1 crash just sitting there -- no Reaper, just crashes right from the desktop.

I've also had it crash a couple of times on Reaper load, solution was to relaunch EuControl, and reload Reaper.