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08-03-2019, 02:42 PM
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#201
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Black Forest
Posts: 5,054
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I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong, but I get some horrible noise (loud pops and crackle), when I use AB LM with 2 Nebula 4 instances. When I turn off auto gain RMS, then everything seems okay. As sound source I'm using a Kontakt instruments (Pizzicato Double Basses).
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08-03-2019, 06:56 PM
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#202
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 2,161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Stevie_
I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong, but I get some horrible noise (loud pops and crackle), when I use AB LM with 2 Nebula 4 instances. When I turn off auto gain RMS, then everything seems okay. As sound source I'm using a Kontakt instruments (Pizzicato Double Basses).
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hmm ... check to be sure you don't have another pair of ABLM using the same Channel #
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08-03-2019, 07:50 PM
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#203
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Black Forest
Posts: 5,054
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I only had one pair in the whole project
I might have found one of the few cases where the plugin gets irritated.
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08-03-2019, 09:45 PM
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#204
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Germany
Posts: 643
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Stevie_
I only had one pair in the whole project
I might have found one of the few cases where the plugin gets irritated.
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Hmm, I do not think so:-) Crackling is a sign of miss configuration.
So, just start with a very simple setup: empty project, add AB_LM pair and then Reaeq in between. Activate one peak filter and change filter gain...
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08-04-2019, 06:33 AM
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#205
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Black Forest
Posts: 5,054
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TBProAudio
Hmm, I do not think so:-) Crackling is a sign of miss configuration.
So, just start with a very simple setup: empty project, add AB_LM pair and then Reaeq in between. Activate one peak filter and change filter gain...
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It definitely works with other plugins. This problem is only with Nebula 4.
It’s crackling in terms of output overload.
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08-04-2019, 08:43 AM
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#206
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 2,161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Stevie_
It definitely works with other plugins. This problem is only with Nebula 4.
It’s crackling in terms of output overload.
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again ... hmmm, Did you set the SYNC [PDC] to get the plugin latency measured/set ?
I use AB-LM with dozens of N4 & Acqua.
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08-04-2019, 10:04 PM
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#208
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 2,161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Stevie_
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Hi Stevie ...
The main thing I noticed is that the PDC value is 0 [zero]. That is not correct for MFC.
In order to set the correct PDC, you have to click on the SYNC PDC [located to the left of RESET], in order to get the plugins LATENCY offset.
This is critical to getting the proper measurement of Level Differences.
It also involves the AB-LM BYPASS function. When the PDC is set correctly, when you AB bypass the plugin, there should not be a glitch.
hope this helps.
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08-05-2019, 04:26 AM
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#209
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Black Forest
Posts: 5,054
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Hey RJ!
Ahh, okay, I thought that PDC being engaged would already taken care of that.
Didn’t even see that it says 0 PDC. Thanks, will try that!
EDIT: that worked, thanks!
Last edited by _Stevie_; 08-05-2019 at 07:44 AM.
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11-23-2019, 04:46 AM
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#210
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TBProAudio
So, just start with a very simple setup: empty project, add AB_LM pair and then Reaeq in between. Activate one peak filter and change filter gain...
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I just downloaded and installed this plugin in version 3.1. Src is placed first, followed by ReaEQ, followed by cntrl.
No sound is played with default settings. Clicking on "Sync PDC" calculates PDC but still no sound. Autogain is "On" and Post Gain ist always on -110-120. If I manually set it to higher values than I hear something, but then it's immediately calculated to -110 values.
Toggling Pre/Post FX doesn't do anything. Activating Delta Monitor leads to ReaEQ output, the sam as if the AB plugin is disabled.
What am I doing wrong?
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11-23-2019, 08:36 AM
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#211
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Germany
Posts: 643
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stirner
What am I doing wrong?
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LinkID? Should be equal!
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11-24-2019, 12:45 PM
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#212
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 42
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Link ID was the same, but it didn't work in this project.
I tried it with a completely new project and there it works fine. Hmm..
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11-30-2019, 08:52 PM
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#213
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Quebec, Canada
Posts: 550
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hey TB Pro,
I just downloaded your ISOL8 plugin and its a awesome gift! Thanks!
It made me look at most of your work on the website and I really like your GUI's, your generosity and the transparency of what the plugins do when you write their descrptions.
I am very impressed by your st1 plugin. I never saw such a thing that is so complete for panning!
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11-30-2019, 10:57 PM
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#214
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Germany
Posts: 643
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D Rocks
hey TB Pro,
I just downloaded your ISOL8 plugin and its a awesome gift!
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Your welcome
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02-27-2020, 08:51 AM
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#215
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 308
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Hello to everyone who is still monitoring this topic years later. I hope someone could help me with a few questions I have regarding this plug-in.
I really like the plug-in and thank you to Thomas for giving it away to the community. I appreaciate it along with everyone else.
I also understand how it works (at lease I believe so) and I can use it.
I have several questions that bug me though:
How do you guys use this plug-in in your mixing/mastering work? Do you use it just to monitor a single effect? Or the whole chain? And what about when you finish your mix or master - do you render the project with the plug-in and its level matching enabled? Do you render with the "Autogain" feature enabled?
I am particularly curious about the post-gain "riding" feature (autogain) in regard to the above-written questions.
Let's say I am not using any kind of plug-in for level-matching: when I make changes with ReaEQ for example, I adjust its gain fader on the right and then I compare it with the bypassed version. This gain fader's setting is static.
What the AB Level Matching plug-in does however is by default it makes the Post Gain slider move constantly (to match the source's calculated loudness I believe) and consequently the PostFX gain is constantly changing.
Is this desirable?
Compared to my example where I just use the gain fader in ReaEQ and set a static value, this plug-in works differently and constantly changes the PostFX gain. I am aware that the "Autogain" feature can be bypassed and that it can be even turned off. Let's say that I use "Autogain Bypass". This basically just stops the Autogain feature and sets a static fader value but this value is the one that was calculated by "autogain" just moments before I pressed the "Autogain bypass" button. I tested this and the value it stops at is almost never the same. This means that If I wanted to have a static postgain value, I would have to set it myself to a value which I think best matches my source level (by using my ears again). I would basically be doing the same as in my ReaEQ example without this plug-in.
This also brings up the following question: What's the purpose of this plug-in then if it doesn't help me calculate a static PostFX gain value? I believe that that's how level matching after using FX was always/usually done. Or is this new Automated/automatic postgain change desirable and you find it works better?
Let me also point out that I am aware that I can change the RMS window size which would actually help calculating an optimal Postgain static value. Does anyone use it though? What do you usually set this RMS window size to? Do you set it to the length of the section to which the FX (an EQ for example) is being applied to (that would be a very large value though)? Or you use the default 300 ms window? Or do you use an entirely different window size? Or "it depends" - if so, what does it depend on?
Am I even making sense? If I am, do you see that there is maybe something that I do not understand correctly in the way this plug-in works? I hope someone understands what I am getting at and maybe provides some insight.
Any helpful input (even short answers to this very long post) is going to be greatly appreciated.
Cheers!
Benjamin
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03-21-2020, 06:36 PM
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#216
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 367
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This thing is incredible!
I wish there was a simplified version of it though, I think I've got my head around it now but all these different options and non-controllable controls probably scare most people away. It seems that all I ever need is the "Post Gain dB" value and the "POSTFX / PREFX" bypass button
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05-11-2020, 01:31 AM
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#217
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 229
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1. So using v3.3, I have set the link ID the same on the same FX chain. A problem I've noticed is that when I put the track in solo, the very first note clips (+31 db or something) and therefore makes a clipping noise. After the first note, it seems to work fine and doesn't clip.
I've also tested it on a completely different FX chain (different Link ID), and I get the same problem. I've also reduced the source gain considerably, but that makes no difference, the clipping is at exactly the same db. If I disable the AB Level Matching plugin however, there is no clipping or noise on the first note.
I have the AB control set up as follows:
Monitor: Post FX
Delta Monitor: Off
Autogain: On
Prefilter: On
Sync PDC: On
Any ideas how to fix this?
2. If I use these pairs of plugins on various different tracks, after taking a break on the project for a week or so, I'm not going to have a clue which Link IDs I've used everywhere in the project, and therefore which ID I should now choose for another instance. Any ideas how we can get round this? Is there something you have which lists all the Link IDs used in the project?
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05-11-2020, 01:41 AM
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#218
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dahya
1. So using v3.3, I have set the link ID the same on the same FX chain. A problem I've noticed is that when I put the track in solo, the very first note clips (+31 db or something) and therefore makes a clipping noise. After the first note, it seems to work fine and doesn't clip.
I've also tested it on a completely different FX chain (different Link ID), and I get the same problem. I've also reduced the source gain considerably, but that makes no difference, the clipping is at exactly the same db. If I disable the AB Level Matching plugin however, there is no clipping or noise on the first note.
I have the AB control set up as follows:
Monitor: Post FX
Delta Monitor: Off
Autogain: On
Prefilter: On
Sync PDC: On
Any ideas how to fix this?
2. If I use these pairs of plugins on various different tracks, after taking a break on the project for a week or so, I'm not going to have a clue which Link IDs I've used everywhere in the project, and therefore which ID I should now choose for another instance. Any ideas how we can get round this? Is there something you have which lists all the Link IDs used in the project?
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Also just now noticed that on my tracks, I've used this plugin on a couple of Bass tracks, later on in the song when the bass stops playing then re-starts after one bar, I get the same clipping and noise. I noticed that in the one bar gap, all the gain controls go down to zero (which I know is expected), then when the bass re-starts, the gain controls shoot up, although they seem to jump to a reasonable level, but not sure if it's the 'spike' in the level changing from zero to whatever so quickly is causing it in Reaper?
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05-11-2020, 01:44 AM
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#219
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Germany
Posts: 643
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dahya
1. So using v3.3, I have set the link ID the same on the same FX chain. A problem I've noticed is that when I put the track in solo, the very first note clips (+31 db or something) and therefore makes a clipping noise. After the first note, it seems to work fine and doesn't clip.
I've also tested it on a completely different FX chain (different Link ID), and I get the same problem. I've also reduced the source gain considerably, but that makes no difference, the clipping is at exactly the same db. If I disable the AB Level Matching plugin however, there is no clipping or noise on the first note.
I have the AB control set up as follows:
Monitor: Post FX
Delta Monitor: Off
Autogain: On
Prefilter: On
Sync PDC: On
Any ideas how to fix this?
2. If I use these pairs of plugins on various different tracks, after taking a break on the project for a week or so, I'm not going to have a clue which Link IDs I've used everywhere in the project, and therefore which ID I should now choose for another instance. Any ideas how we can get round this? Is there something you have which lists all the Link IDs used in the project?
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Do your sandwiched plugins create latency?
If yes, the sum of latency needs to be set in AB-LM, otherwise measurement of input and output are out for sync. This could create heavy gain spikes.
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05-11-2020, 02:13 AM
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#220
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TBProAudio
Do your sandwiched plugins create latency?
If yes, the sum of latency needs to be set in AB-LM, otherwise measurement of input and output are out for sync. This could create heavy gain spikes.
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I don't have a clue to be honest, how would I check the latencies?
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05-11-2020, 06:56 AM
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#221
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Jazz City
Posts: 5,065
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dahya
I don't have a clue to be honest, how would I check the latencies?
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When you hit "Set PDC".
__________________
Windows 10x64 | AMD Ryzen 3700X | ATI FirePro 2100 | Marian Seraph AD2, 4.3.8 | Yamaha Steinberg MR816x
"If I can hear well, then everything I do is right" (Allen Sides)
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05-11-2020, 10:22 AM
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#222
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 229
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ok, worked it out guys, thanks, I didn't realise that I had to take the PDC into account.
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05-12-2020, 04:28 AM
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#223
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TBProAudio
Do your sandwiched plugins create latency?
If yes, the sum of latency needs to be set in AB-LM, otherwise measurement of input and output are out for sync. This could create heavy gain spikes.
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OK, so just realised, having read the manual as follows:
5.11 PDC (Pre Delay Compensation)
Sets delay of source signal so that timing of the signal from source plugin matches with the signal of controller plugin.
The delay of the plugin chain can be automatically calculated by clicking on the "SYNC PDC" button or can be manually set (e.g. Reaper - "Performance Meter" view (PDC)).
This implies that the plugin will automatically calculate the delay, so why, when I had "Sync PDC" set to on, did I get this clipping? I would assume by setting it on, that I don't need to calculate anything manually?
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05-12-2020, 09:14 AM
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#224
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Germany
Posts: 643
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dahya
OK, so just realised, having read the manual as follows:
5.11 PDC (Pre Delay Compensation)
Sets delay of source signal so that timing of the signal from source plugin matches with the signal of controller plugin.
The delay of the plugin chain can be automatically calculated by clicking on the "SYNC PDC" button or can be manually set (e.g. Reaper - "Performance Meter" view (PDC)).
This implies that the plugin will automatically calculate the delay, so why, when I had "Sync PDC" set to on, did I get this clipping? I would assume by setting it on, that I don't need to calculate anything manually?
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If you click on the PDC button, latency is automatically calculated and set.
Please also note that you set the sandwiched plugins to "neutral" settings, so that the DIRAC, which is sent for measurement purpose, can be detected by the receiver.
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05-13-2020, 01:25 AM
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#225
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TBProAudio
If you click on the PDC button, latency is automatically calculated and set.
Please also note that you set the sandwiched plugins to "neutral" settings, so that the DIRAC, which is sent for measurement purpose, can be detected by the receiver.
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Thanks for your response but I'm not clear / familiar with what you're saying:
1. PDC button is set (and so presumably shouldn't have to set manually), but I still get clipping ?
2. What do you mean by "neutral" settings? I have a EQ, Saturation and Comp plugins in the chain, how do I set to "neutral" ?
3. I don't have a clue about what DIRAC is, but it probably doesn't matter as I don't necessarily need to know what the internal calculations are doing.
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05-13-2020, 02:59 AM
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#226
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Germany
Posts: 643
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dahya
Thanks for your response but I'm not clear / familiar with what you're saying:
1. PDC button is set (and so presumably shouldn't have to set manually), but I still get clipping ?
2. What do you mean by "neutral" settings? I have a EQ, Saturation and Comp plugins in the chain, how do I set to "neutral" ?
3. I don't have a clue about what DIRAC is, but it probably doesn't matter as I don't necessarily need to know what the internal calculations are doing.
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PDC button is just a click button, start/stop PDC measurement
Neutral setting means plug is active but no impact on the signal (e.g. threshold, gain etc).
The point is that AB-LM needs to get the measurement signal (DIRAC) through the chain, otherwise the measurement signal cannot be detected by the AB-LM receiver plug.
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01-25-2021, 06:36 AM
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#227
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Sweden
Posts: 70
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First - Thanks to TBProAudio for making this plugin! It's really good!
I took a deep dive into automated loudness matching for mastering last week and made a video about it. I ended up with a modified version of this plugin and some unorthodox routing.
Read all about it here.
Hopefully this will be useful for someone!
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01-25-2021, 11:23 AM
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#228
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Germany
Posts: 643
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThomasE
First - Thanks to TBProAudio for making this plugin! It's really good!
I took a deep dive into automated loudness matching for mastering last week and made a video about it. I ended up with a modified version of this plugin and some unorthodox routing.
Read all about it here.
Hopefully this will be useful for someone!
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Thank you for this video, excellent stuff :-)
I have some remarks and questions:
1) AB-LM (vst2/vst3 plugin) has the "inverse" button, it should change the PRE-FX gain. have you tested it?
2) It should not be a big deal to implement the "inverse" button into JSFX version as well...
3) The monitor usage is perfect! In any case AB-LM pairs can be set to inactive with the "active" button. Just as remark.
And please send me an email to proaudio@tb-software.com for some more questions, thank you!
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01-25-2021, 01:56 PM
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#229
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Krefeld, Germany
Posts: 14,688
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For mastering in Reaper, the version modified by electronicburger obviously has a lot advantages.
Installing it, I found and wondered that it's not possible to do a "pre effects" routing in the master channel. Is this intentionally or am I being dense ?
-Michael
Last edited by mschnell; 01-26-2021 at 04:31 AM.
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01-26-2021, 02:15 AM
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#230
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Sweden
Posts: 70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TBProAudio
Thank you for this video, excellent stuff :-)
I have some remarks and questions:
1) AB-LM (vst2/vst3 plugin) has the "inverse" button, it should change the PRE-FX gain. have you tested it?
2) It should not be a big deal to implement the "inverse" button into JSFX version as well...
3) The monitor usage is perfect! In any case AB-LM pairs can be set to inactive with the "active" button. Just as remark.
And please send me an email to proaudio@tb-software.com for some more questions, thank you!
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Thanks for your reply! Yes, I tested the "Inverse" button, but couldn't get it to work. The "Post" level still seem dependent on the "Pre" loudness, and there are loud level-jumps when switching pre/post. I'm probably misunderstanding something though...
The "Active" button is indeed great, as long as you remember to press it before exporting.
I'll email you shortly!
Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell
Gor mastering in Reaper, the version modified by electronicburger obviously has a lot advantages.
Installing it, I found and wondered that it's not possible to do a "ore effects" routing in the master channel. Is this intentionally or am I being dense ?
-Michael
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Not dense at all. You can certainly route everything through the master channel instead.
I've found that keeping the master channel stereo, and only route stuff that should end up in a master to it will keep exporting mistakes to a minimum. I prefer to have all additional stuff happening outside of the master channel, but there are certainly other ways to do it as well.
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01-26-2021, 04:34 AM
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#231
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Krefeld, Germany
Posts: 14,688
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I am usually doing a kind of "mastering light" for a single song just using the FX chain of the Master.
For using the A/B plugin in the monitor FX chain I need to add a "dummy master" track as a parent to all tracks of the project, just to allow "pre effects" routing . Easy to do but kind of unnecessary. I really don't see why the master track does not provide this setting
-Michael
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01-26-2021, 06:17 AM
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#232
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Sweden
Posts: 70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell
I am usually doing a kind of "mastering light" for a single song just using the FX chain of the Master.
For using the A/B plugin in the monitor FX chain I need to add a "dummy master" track as a parent to all tracks of the project, just to allow "pre effects" routing . Easy to do but kind of unnecessary. I really don't see why the master track does not provide this setting
-Michael
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You could set the master track to 4 channels, place a dummy plugin (ex ReaEQ without processing) first in the processing chain, and connect the outputs of that plugin to both 1-2 and 3-4. Channels 3-4 on the master track would then contain your "before" signal. Then add a hardware output to the master track that sends 3-4 to 3-4 in the monitoring chain.
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01-26-2021, 11:59 AM
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#233
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Berlin
Posts: 2,164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThomasE
You could set the master track to 4 channels, place a dummy plugin (ex ReaEQ without processing) first in the processing chain, and connect the outputs of that plugin to both 1-2 and 3-4. Channels 3-4 on the master track would then contain your "before" signal. Then add a hardware output to the master track that sends 3-4 to 3-4 in the monitoring chain.
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That works, thank you!! And excellent video btw, you have a new subscriber Was thinking the same as Michael, having this permanently set up on the master bus sounds incredible.
Instead of using a dummy plugin I wrote a small "remote control" JSFX, that lets you check and toggle the state of the AB without having the monitor fx chain open. It uses the embedded UI option we got in REAPER v6.
If anybody is interested pm me. Or with your permission I'd share it here as well.
One more thing, it might be a good idea to change the gmem name (line 59) of the modified version, so it won't conflict with the original (if somebody wants to use that at the same time).
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01-26-2021, 01:37 PM
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#234
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Krefeld, Germany
Posts: 14,688
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThomasE
You could set the master track to 4 channels, place a dummy plugin (ex ReaEQ without processing) first in the processing chain, and connect the outputs of that plugin to both 1-2 and 3-4. Channels 3-4 on the master track would then contain your "before" signal. Then add a hardware output to the master track that sends 3-4 to 3-4 in the monitoring chain.
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I see
-Michael
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01-26-2021, 01:40 PM
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#235
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Krefeld, Germany
Posts: 14,688
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FeedTheCat
If anybody is interested pm me. Or with your permission I'd share it here as well.
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Please do upload it to ReaPack.
Of course the other JSFXes would be nice there, as well.
Thanks,
-Michael
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01-27-2021, 01:54 AM
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#236
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Sweden
Posts: 70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FeedTheCat
Instead of using a dummy plugin I wrote a small "remote control" JSFX, that lets you check and toggle the state of the AB without having the monitor fx chain open. It uses the embedded UI option we got in REAPER v6.
If anybody is interested pm me. Or with your permission I'd share it here as well.
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Awesome! That's a great feature! Please share it!
Quote:
Originally Posted by FeedTheCat
One more thing, it might be a good idea to change the gmem name (line 59) of the modified version, so it won't conflict with the original (if somebody wants to use that at the same time).
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Good point, I'll have a look at that. This version still works if you want to use the original source plugin though, so that might be a reason to keep the gmem as it is. The instances can still be separated using the link ID setting.
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01-27-2021, 05:11 AM
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#237
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Berlin
Posts: 2,164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThomasE
This version still works if you want to use the original source plugin though, so that might be a reason to keep the gmem as it is. The instances can still be separated using the link ID setting.
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You're right, I just set the default link ID to 127.
Here's the slightly modded version and the remote control jsfx
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05-27-2021, 04:36 AM
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#238
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2020
Posts: 7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TBProAudio
JSFX is basically the same as the paid version. Paid version adds more measurement methods like VU and gain staging.
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I do not understand how to download AB JSFX from the site
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05-27-2021, 05:15 AM
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#239
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Québec
Posts: 484
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onnick
I do not understand how to download AB JSFX from the site
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https://www.tbproaudio.de/download
Look for ABLevelMatchingJSFX > download
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12-29-2021, 09:56 PM
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#240
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 248
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I would love to try this out but the website isn't working
Like I get to the downloads page, found the free download, click it and I'm back to the home page. Anyone got a direct link?
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