Old 12-14-2017, 05:21 PM   #1
Liquid Fusion
Human being with feelings
 
Liquid Fusion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: New York City
Posts: 659
Default Configuring Monitor Switcher

Can I run the output of a power amp (meant to go to a speaker) to the input of a Behringer Monitor2USB?

Behringer Monitor2USB Switcher
XLR (2) Input Pairs
XLR (2) Output Pairs + 1 (Mono/Subwoofer)

Example -
Monitor2USB Inputs: (1) Alesis RA100 + (2) Hafler P1500 Power amps
Monitor2USB Outputs: (1) Audiophile Series One Bookshelf Speakers + (2) NS10s

Last edited by Liquid Fusion; 12-14-2017 at 05:27 PM.
Liquid Fusion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2017, 05:52 PM   #2
serr
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 12,561
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Fusion View Post
Can I run the output of a power amp (meant to go to a speaker) to the input of a Behringer Monitor2USB?
NO NO NO NO, NO, AND NO!!!

The Behringer would release its magic smoke and never work again!


What you CAN do however is use Reaper to control multiple monitors and/or headphone mixes.

Connect your multiple amp/passive speaker systems and powered monitor sets to different output pairs on the interfaces. If you need the outputs from both interfaces, make an aggregate device with your OS utility to use them together with Reaper.

Assign your monitor output bus track or master to all the connected speaker pairs. There is a mute action for every hardware output slot that you can assign to a keyboard shortcut. Mute/unmute the different connected speakers right from your keyboard.
serr is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2017, 06:50 PM   #3
Glennbo
Human being with feelings
 
Glennbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 9,055
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by serr View Post
NO NO NO NO, NO, AND NO!!!

The Behringer would release its magic smoke and never work again!
I witnessed a Tascam 234 4-track cassette deck do that at a gig with ground fault wiring problems on one side of the stage. It also sounded like popcorn popping inside the unit! The club owner bought us a shiny new Tascam 234 when I proved with a ground fault tester that it was his fault! <BadaBoom><Crash>
__________________
Glennbo
Hear My Music - Click Me!!!
--
Glennbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2017, 09:15 PM   #4
Liquid Fusion
Human being with feelings
 
Liquid Fusion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: New York City
Posts: 659
Default

WOW!!! Really glad I asked 1st!!!! OK - How can I best use the Monitor2usb?

Is there enough volume in the Behringer to power passive speakers without power amps?
Does this mean I don't need power amps? Seems this unit might work best for powered speakers.

The Behringer manual shows
- a mixing board output connecting to a Behringer Monitor2USB input
- USB connection from DAW direct to Monitor2usb
- problem might be both studio speaker sets are passive not active

Last edited by Liquid Fusion; 12-14-2017 at 10:33 PM.
Liquid Fusion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2017, 10:34 PM   #5
Superfly76
Human being with feelings
 
Superfly76's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 499
Default

No. There is no power amp in there. If you have 2 sets of passive monitors, then you will need 2 stereo power amps, one for each set of speakers.

Signal flow will go:

Monitor2USB > Power Amps > Speakers
__________________
These links are really old! I really should update these!My band eluvia ABC World News (That's me with the dreads)
Superfly76 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2017, 10:37 PM   #6
Superfly76
Human being with feelings
 
Superfly76's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 499
Default

You posted your reply right before I posted mine. Looks like you came to the conclusion that I posted.

Sure, you could do that if you want, or just buy another power amp. Never used a speaker switcher between speaker and power amp before, so I don't know the benefits/risks of using a device like that.
__________________
These links are really old! I really should update these!My band eluvia ABC World News (That's me with the dreads)
Superfly76 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2017, 10:38 PM   #7
Liquid Fusion
Human being with feelings
 
Liquid Fusion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: New York City
Posts: 659
Default

I
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superfly76 View Post
You posted your reply right before I posted mine. Looks like you came to the conclusion that I posted.
Sure, you could do that if you want, or just buy another power amp. Never used a speaker switcher between speaker and power amp before, so I don't know the benefits/risks of using a device like that.
Originally wanted to switch out power amps as well as speakers.

Last edited by Liquid Fusion; 12-15-2017 at 08:18 AM.
Liquid Fusion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2017, 06:25 AM   #8
Philbo King
Human being with feelings
 
Philbo King's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 3,202
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Superfly76 View Post
You posted your reply right before I posted mine. Looks like you came to the conclusion that I posted.

Sure, you could do that if you want, or just buy another power amp. Never used a speaker switcher between speaker and power amp before, so I don't know the benefits/risks of using a device like that.
Speaker switchers using mechanical switches or relays can be problematic, especially when used with a power amp that fries when no load is connected.
You need special electronic soft switching with built-in dummy loads.

Mechanical switches come in 2 categories:
- Make before break (meaning the amp outputs are briefly shorted together when switching, or if using 1 amp and 2 sets of speakers, the amp is briefly loaded by both speakers when switching)
- Break before make (meaning the amp output is briefly left open-circuit when switching)

Neither of these is healthy for a power amp, especially if signal is present when the switching occurs.
Philbo King is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2017, 07:44 AM   #9
karbomusic
Human being with feelings
 
karbomusic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 29,260
Default

Quote:
when used with a power amp that fries when no load is connected.
Not typically a problem with solid state amps FYI, tube amps is another story, it'll fry the transformer. That being said, still more desirable to do the switching before the amps - can be done after the amp but if it were me I'd prefer to switch when muted etc.
__________________
Music is what feelings sound like.
karbomusic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2017, 08:24 AM   #10
Liquid Fusion
Human being with feelings
 
Liquid Fusion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: New York City
Posts: 659
Default

Will it be safe / will there be enough volume - going direct from a soundcard breakout box outputs (Prism Atlas) to Behringer Monitor source inputs to Speaker sets A / B? This eliminates power amps.

If I switch before the power amp, speakers will be dedicated to that amp. This is what I wanted to change. See it's a problem.

Right now, I go from Atlas to Tascam106 mixer to HaflerP1500 to NS10s and Tascam106mixer to AlesisRA100 to Audiophile Bookshelf speakers. Mixer Master Outs 1/2 are the Hafler / NS10s. Mixer Master outs 3/4 are the RA100/ Audiophile speakers. Run a set of small computer speakers from the front of the Atlas. The Subwoofer can also run out of the front or from rear panel outputs 7/8. I like using a mixer: can create a session mix on ch 3/4 with separate solo guitar on input ch 1/2.

Last edited by Liquid Fusion; 12-15-2017 at 09:07 AM.
Liquid Fusion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2017, 10:27 AM   #11
Philbo King
Human being with feelings
 
Philbo King's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 3,202
Default

It might be worth it to check the specs on the speakers and the amp to see the impedance ratings.

A lot of amps will tolerate 4 Ohm speaker loads. If your speakers are 8 Ohms, putting both sets of speakers on one 2 chan (stereo) amp will work fine, assuming the speakers are wired in parallel, or the amp has output terminals for more than 1 speaker per channel.

You could even add separate off/on switches for each speaker type, as long as you make sure to have at least one speaker ON and mute the signal before doing switching.

If it works, you could sell the other amp & buy a mic or something...
Philbo King is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2017, 10:31 AM   #12
serr
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 12,561
Default

Alright, so we're talking about gear like Behringer, Alesis, Tascam, etc. Solidly pro stuff that will let you get a lot of work done but not exactly boutique. The point isn't to be dismissive or snobby, but investing in a more proper speaker/amp switcher box (that has the circuitry for handling proper switching as mentioned really doesn't line up. The bang for the buck would be shockingly low. Those switcher units go for around $2000. Once you got the levels dialed in and properly matched between everything my guess is you'd hear absolutely no useful difference between switching amps as a tool for mixing.

What you would likely get benefit from is multiple speaker sets though!

My advice would be to go there first. Wire up your multiple amp and passive speaker sets (match amps to speakers and stay with it) and use the multiple line out pairs on your interface(s) to the different amps. Make the keyboard shortcuts to switch speaker sets from your computer keyboard in Reaper.

Aside: If this is instead for an effect kind of thing like running something through a distorty amp for the effect, do that on the input side or with an insert and record it.
serr is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2017, 11:32 AM   #13
karbomusic
Human being with feelings
 
karbomusic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 29,260
Default

I was going to say earlier, it would really be easy to just purchase a simple speaker selector. There is zero reason passively switching between two sets of speakers should be very expensive. Another note, is I pretty much refuse to handle SPL and/or monitor selection from the computer, must be a physical knob/unit which is what I use.
__________________
Music is what feelings sound like.
karbomusic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2017, 12:18 PM   #14
serr
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 12,561
Default

I still have a speaker/amp switcher I built years ago. I switch headphone mixes from the keyboard shortcuts though. F7 - F13 on the keyboard are headphone monitor toggles.

A good use for otherwise unused outputs IMHO.
serr is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2017, 12:19 AM   #15
Liquid Fusion
Human being with feelings
 
Liquid Fusion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: New York City
Posts: 659
Default

Thanks Serr / Karbo -

Since the Behringer manual shows a mixer as an input source, can I run outputs from the Prism Atlas to the Tascam ch 1/2 and 3/4 and have these Tascam mixer outs as Behringer inputs 1/2 and 3/4? Eliminates the power amps. Behringer monitor outs will be the Ns10s and the Audiophile bookshelf speakers.
Liquid Fusion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2017, 03:48 AM   #16
Stella645
Human being with feelings
 
Stella645's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 3,648
Default

You can't eliminate the amps!

You have passive speakers, they ONLY work if connected directly with an amp.
Stella645 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2017, 07:23 AM   #17
Liquid Fusion
Human being with feelings
 
Liquid Fusion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: New York City
Posts: 659
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post
I was going to say earlier, it would really be easy to just purchase a simple speaker selector. There is zero reason passively switching between two sets of speakers should be very expensive. Another note, is I pretty much refuse to handle SPL and/or monitor selection from the computer, must be a physical knob/unit which is what I use.
Bought Choice 01 - Thanks Karbo!!!!!!

- Tabletop control box allows selection of A/B speaker pairs
- Internal 220ohm resistors ensure that amplifier always sees a load, even with both switches off (very important)
- With both speaker switches in "on" position, speaker pairs are connected in series....
- Speakers in series series - allows use of 4ohm or 8ohm speaker systems, without damage to amplifier
- 200W maximum power capacity
- All connections are push type

Choice 01 Choice 02

Last edited by Liquid Fusion; 12-16-2017 at 07:58 AM.
Liquid Fusion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2017, 09:42 AM   #18
serr
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 12,561
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Fusion View Post
OK - powered speakers - got it - bought the wrong gear -

- Paid 70.00 / mint monitor / Ebay + 24.00 shipping
You were simply misinformed if you were led to believe that speakers could be run from line level. Or you didn't realize that powered monitors are actually passive speakers with an amp built into the box.

You didn't buy anything wrong. You just haven't bought amps yet if that is the case.

Don't entertain the idea to set up to swap out amps as though we were talking about guitar amps and different tones. You're not going to get anything useful from this. The amp is going to be the the least variable device in the chain. If you had all boutique gear it might make some sense to A/B between a $$$$ tube amp vs. a $$$$ solid state but I think that would still be a stretch.

Different speaker sets WILL be useful though. Just consider amps as neutral power devices for your speakers in this scenario. You could consider using one amp and switching passive speakers with the inexpensive passive speaker switcher only box. The pros would be efficiency in only having to invest in one set of amps. The cons would be the inability to match levels between speaker sets, forcing you to adjust the level when switching speakers and pretty much eliminating the ability to quickly A/B between speaker sets.

Last edited by serr; 12-16-2017 at 09:49 AM.
serr is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2017, 10:11 AM   #19
ivansc
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Near Cambridge UK and Near Questembert, France
Posts: 22,754
Default

FWIW I run a pair of powered monitors and a pair of passive monitors thru an old Quad amp, control over routing being handled by an old M-Patch2 monitor control box. Dead easy to set up, not expensive esp if you buy used AND mine has an inbuilt headphone amp of reasonable quality, so you can mute all speakers and just listen on ans.
Probably the most elegant solution for you too.
__________________
Ici on parles Franglais
ivansc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2017, 10:34 PM   #20
Liquid Fusion
Human being with feelings
 
Liquid Fusion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: New York City
Posts: 659
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by serr View Post
You were simply misinformed if you were led to believe that speakers could be run from line level. Or you didn't realize that powered monitors are actually passive speakers with an amp built into the box.

You didn't buy anything wrong. You just haven't bought amps yet if that is the case.

Don't entertain the idea to set up to swap out amps as though we were talking about guitar amps and different tones. You're not going to get anything useful from this. The amp is going to be the the least variable device in the chain. If you had all boutique gear it might make some sense to A/B between a $$$$ tube amp vs. a $$$$ solid state but I think that would still be a stretch.

Different speaker sets WILL be useful though. Just consider amps as neutral power devices for your speakers in this scenario. You could consider using one amp and switching passive speakers with the inexpensive passive speaker switcher only box. The pros would be efficiency in only having to invest in one set of amps. The cons would be the inability to match levels between speaker sets, forcing you to adjust the level when switching speakers and pretty much eliminating the ability to quickly A/B between speaker sets.

My bad - didn't understand limitations. To me, there is a difference in sound between the Alesis RA100 (sterile sound) and the Hafler P 1500 (thicker / more tone). I'll probably go with the Hafler P1500 amp connecting that to a speaker selector I ordered that Karbo mentioned: Choice 01.

Save the Behringer for when I ever get powered speakers.
Liquid Fusion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2017, 11:20 PM   #21
sickamorz
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Philippines
Posts: 741
Default

I would just get another amp to run the other set speakers then connect the amps inputs to your io interface audio outs, then control both sets through reaper.
sickamorz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2017, 11:48 PM   #22
Liquid Fusion
Human being with feelings
 
Liquid Fusion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: New York City
Posts: 659
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sickamorz View Post
I would just get another amp to run the other set speakers then connect the amps inputs to your io interface audio outs, then control both sets through reaper.
So - Adjust speaker volumes via Reaper without using a mixer: Reaper CH 1/2 out - I/0 1/2 out - Hafler w/ NS10s and Reaper CH 3/4 out - I/0 3/4 out - RA100 w/ 2nd set passive speakers. Right?

Simple method I've used up to now:

- Reaper 1/2 to i/o box by USB 2.0
- i/o box 1/2 and 3/4 going to Tascam Mixer
- Tascam mixer CH 1/2 - Hafler power amp - NS10s
- Tascam mixer CH 3/4 - RA100 power amp - Audiophile speakers
- i/0 interface front panel feeds small computer speakers
- i/0 interface rear panel feeds a subwoofer (ch 7/8) (or can do from front panel)

Really like the sound of the Hafler amp, along with the ability to use a mixer to fade up / blend different volume levels of either speaker set (NS10s with a 2nd speaker set). RA100 power amp is good, however sound appears cold and thin.

Option 01: replace RA100 w/ 2nd Halfer power Amp. Retain ability to blend speaker volumes w/ mixer.

Option 02: run i/o to Hafler power amp to passive speaker selector just ordered - choose either NS10s or 2nd set of passive speakers (or both) - however, no blending of speaker sets at different volume levels.

Future Goal? Powered speakers A/B against the Hafler / NS10s?

Really glad I learned more - from everyone here - about line level vs speaker level w/gear!! No KaBoom!

Last edited by Liquid Fusion; 12-17-2017 at 05:20 PM.
Liquid Fusion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2017, 09:43 PM   #23
Liquid Fusion
Human being with feelings
 
Liquid Fusion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: New York City
Posts: 659
Default

No matter what - need to test the Behringer Monitor2USB to see if it works (Ebay purchase) - and see if it has anything wrong with it. Waiting for extra XLR connectors that will arrive by Monday.

Test Setup = I/0 - Monitor - Power amp - speaker

Try controlling source volume from Reaper
Reaper ch 1/2 - I/O outs ch1/2 to Monitor2USB to Hafler Amp to NS10s
Reaper ch 3/4 - I/O outs ch3/4 to Monitor2USB to RA100 Amp to 2nd set of passive speakers
Monitor ch/Mono - Yamaha powered subwoofer
Liquid Fusion is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:11 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.