Laggy GUI?

[Gass n Klang]

hey guys,
I switched from Windows to Mac a few weeks ago. Macbook Pro M2 Max 64gb Ram. I use two external 4k displays on an OWC Thunderbolt 4 Hub while the Macbook itself is my third screen.
I experience super annoying graphical lags from time to time. Didn't find any regularities so it's hard to say what's going on. It seems to happen only with reaper. Especially the playhead sometimes gets REALLY unresponsive (2-3 fps). The only thing I can say is that if I move the TCP to my macbook screen, it's super smooth and when I move it back to my "main" screen it stays being smooth until new lags occur.

Quite diffuse problem but maybe anybody can help.

EDIT: I turned of one of the two external screens and connected the other one using my macbooks HDMI out. It doesn't seem to help.

[Gass n Klang]

anybody? these lags seem to occur only on my external displays. Using my macbooks display, everything seems to be normal. (yes, of course I'm at 60 Hz.)

[7enz]

i had seen a video highlighting that hubs can be the cause of the intermittement lagginess when having external displays

so essentially the problem is likely the hub itself
ill try hunt for the video, which highlights this problem.

[7enz]

unfortunately i cannot find the video i viewed

[Gass n Klang]

I used the HDMI out of my macbook now, without using the hub at alle. Same problem.

[mlprod]

Try checking/tweaking stuff in the Advanced UI settings under prefs/general.

[randbrown]

I've also recently switched from Windows to Macbook Pro 16" with M2 Pro Max. I've noticed some visual flickering in one specific plugin's UI (Voxengo SPAN)... but only when that plugin is open on my external monitor. When I move that window to the laptop display, it's smooth again. Like you, I've tried going directly from the laptop HDMI port, and I've tried different HDMI cables, but I still get the flickering either way. I only have one external monitor.

[Justin]

Try turning off Metal in preferences/general/advanced, restart REAPER, see if that helps/hurts. It will probably hurt. Perhaps there's some issue with it using the correct GPU for the external display, hmm.

[skylar_battles]

Justin could we possibly have a sticky for the Silicon Mac stuff? About to upgrade myself.

[Gass n Klang]

turning it off, seems to help here. I'll do further observations with different projects and let you know.

[Gass n Klang]

hm ok not really.

It seems like scaling in macos is a big reason. I use 2 4k screens. If I set my resolution to "more space" it runs smoothly. If I scale up it lags as hell (meterings and playhead feel like 3fps)

[mlprod]

I am using a scaled up 4K display also from an OWC hub, no problems at all. Only one though.

[Tonehenge]

(Mac Studio M1 Max) and things improved dramatically in terms of plugin GUI lag in Reaper. Some (not all) plugins exhibited GUI lag that impacted everything, including timer readout on the transport. Now everything seems perfect! Something changed under the hood, and I would like to know what...

[Ideosound]

Originally Posted by skylar_battles

Justin could we possibly have a sticky for the Silicon Mac stuff? About to upgrade myself.

This is a good idea, I probably won't be updating for a bit yet but over the next few years lots more Mac users will be on non-intel machines.

[Tonehenge]

Since the Ventura update, everything graphics related in Reaper and plugins has improved by an order of magnitude. Operating plugin controls is smoother to the point of feeling like hardware... In fact, the operating advantage that Reaper has had on PC's vs Mac seems to have been obliterated. The only plugin giving a slight hint of the bad old days is IK TR5 Mic Room, but its performance is significantly better than the bad old days.

So, what happened? Something under the hood with Mac OS for certain... Was it the presence of the Metal 3 infrastructure? Did Mac OS make more graphics processing threads available to 3rd party developers? Is it something in Reaper that was rejigged to take advantage of Ventura? (I'm running the latest developer betas of Reaper). I do like understanding why things have improved... In any event, I feel like I've won a lottery.

Mac Studio M1 Max. 32 gig RAM, 2tb drive Latest version of Ventura.

[mlprod]

Originally Posted by Tonehenge

Since the Ventura update, everything graphics related in Reaper and plugins has improved by an order of magnitude. Operating plugin controls is smoother to the point of feeling like hardware... In fact, the operating advantage that Reaper has had on PC's vs Mac seems to have been obliterated. The only plugin giving a slight hint of the bad old days is IK TR5 Mic Room, but its performance is significantly better than the bad old days.

So, what happened? Something under the hood with Mac OS for certain... Was it the presence of the Metal 3 infrastructure? Did Mac OS make more graphics processing threads available to 3rd party developers? Is it something in Reaper that was rejigged to take advantage of Ventura? (I'm running the latest developer betas of Reaper). I do like understanding why things have improved... In any event, I feel like I've won a lottery.

Mac Studio M1 Max. 32 gig RAM, 2tb drive Latest version of Ventura.

Interesting, personally I haven't noticed a difference between the any MacOS versions since Monterey in that regard. They have all worked well for me.

[Tonehenge]

Originally Posted by mlprod

Interesting, personally I haven't noticed a difference between the any MacOS versions since Monterey in that regard. They have all worked well for me.

That's my point. The upgrade in performance is palpable. Perhaps the in place upgrade simply scrubbed an under the hood setting that has been haunting me through successive upgrades... Who knows?

[Tonehenge]

Originally Posted by Justin

Try turning off Metal in preferences/general/advanced, restart REAPER, see if that helps/hurts. It will probably hurt. Perhaps there's some issue with it using the correct GPU for the external display, hmm.

Justin... Look at my input on this thread. Any reason why my Reaper graphics performance has improved so dramatically with the Ventura update?

[Gass n Klang]

hm, ventura is my very first mac experience and windows did perform at least as well. I'd really like to know where these scaling issues come from. Drives me nuts.

[timothys_monster]

I am on a Mac Mini M2 Pro now with a lot of lagging on the GUI. To the point where it is basically unusable.

There are two LED Cinema Displays (1920x1200) connected via Thunderbolt with a DisplayPort adapter.

Have you found any solution for the UI lags on your machine, Gassnklang?

[timothys_monster]

Just in case anyone else is having problems, I found that deactivating Metal made all the difference.

Preferences > General > Advanced UI > Display updates: Disable all optimized drawing

REAPER is reacting smoothly to playback and scrolling now. Only the Big Clock is a bit laggy looking at the passing frames. But that might have been always like that.

[Gass n Klang]

deactivating metal doesn't help anything in my case. In my multi-monitor setup, macos' screen-scaling-"feature" does the problem. No idea if it's reaper's or macos fault but everything needs to be "default" to provide massive performance problems.

A scalable vector based reaper GUI would help a lot ...

[Gass n Klang]

in many projects all the meters are extremly laggy (like 5fps). superweird: When opening the midi editor as a docked window, all the meterings go are smooth. Still have to check if that is only relevant to the midi editor or to every docked window.

[Gass n Klang]

alright, it seems like my metering lags (tcp and mcp) are gone as soon as a window is docked (I checked midi editor or fx chain. A docked mixer doesn't seem to have any impact...). It doesn't matter if the mixer is hidden or not and it doesn't matter which display it's on.

anything I can do against that?

EDIT: Even the playhead is MUCH smoother then.

[Gass n Klang]

any idea? that's driving me nuts. I keep the midi editor open docked when editing audio just to make graphics run smoother...

[nepenthe]

Did you say you tried running Reaper with stock preferences? (try setting up a portable install instead of trashing the prefs on your main Reaper install)

PS: with Mac OS, the "scaling" feature is actually scaling just the GUI while the screen keeps running at native res. Thus the "more space" option actually is shrinking/scaling the UI to fit more on screen. Actually changing the screen resolution on Mac requires accessing some hidden preferences.

[_Stevie_]

I have similar issues, but on Windows. The more screens you have, the bigger the lag. Although, my issue is with the laggy ME. There must be a deeper issue somewhere.

[inthevoid]

Originally Posted by _Stevie_

I have similar issues, but on Windows. The more screens you have, the bigger the lag. Although, my issue is with the laggy ME. There must be a deeper issue somewhere.

Yeah, cursor and video playback are still lagging big time here when using the MIDI editor on Mac M2. (& video stutters and lags whenever dragging things around in the arrange as well.) I do get that by design graphical performance is always playing 2nd fiddle to audio with REAPER, but it's quite painful to work with such laggy GUI & video for extended periods of time.

The workaround is to 'throttle move events' in Advanced UI/system tweaks, which evens things out at the expense of some cursor/marquee box drawing smoothness, but given that, I feel like that setting should really be the default - since the current default of not throttling move events makes the whole rest of the GUI lag.

It's probably also asking too much, but it's a real shame that the best CC editing tools we have in Reaper (juliansader's multi tool & ramp scripts) are unbearably laggy to use without throttling move-events. Praying for a native solution at some point. Advanced MIDI programming would be virtually impossible without them.

Really hoping for some MIDI editing love in Reaper 7! Every time I have to use Logic / Cubase for work, I feel like I've regressed 20 years workflow wise, but they do still feel light years ahead when it comes to a pleasantly smooth UX.

[chip mcdonald]

Jumped on an M1 Mac Mini really early. Worked about as fast as my old i5 PC initially.

I'm going back to PC. It's behavior is too random and unreliable, and I'm getting more and more beachballs.

[nepenthe]

Originally Posted by Gass n Klang

any idea? that's driving me nuts. I keep the midi editor open docked when editing audio just to make graphics run smoother...

Check out the latest update to Reaper (6.82) as it contains a change based on your trouble report:

"+ macOS: optimize Metal drawing for various contexts, improving behavior for some multimonitor M2 systems [t=280085] [t=280242]"

[Gass n Klang]

Originally Posted by nepenthe

Check out the latest update to Reaper (6.82) as it contains a change based on your trouble report:

"+ macOS: optimize Metal drawing for various contexts, improving behavior for some multimonitor M2 systems [t=280085] [t=280242]"

Thx but it doesn't help. I'm using the latest 7.0 pre15