Old 06-12-2019, 11:55 AM   #1
sjs94704
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Default Vocal VST setup ... Do I have too much or too little?

Hi:

I just wanted to check in with you all to get any suggestions you might have.

But, first, I have heard a lot that mixing is very subjective and there is no one way to do it. GOT IT!

For the purpose of this question, what I am asking is, in your opinion, based on the VSTs I am using (see picture below), do you think there is any kind of redundancy so that if I say eliminate one of these VSTs that I can still do what I need to do with the controls on another VST in the chain and maybe I'm just not seeing it.

It sounds like when I arm the MIC that the gain is turned up too high. Maybe I'm wrong, but, it seems to me like every time another VST is added to the chain of a track this sound gets just a bit louder. Not a ton louder, but, to me it is noticeable.

This leads me to the subject of gain staging. I have watched several videos on the topic. I know that many of you with experience may or may not understand this perspective, but, believe it or not, they all leave some confusion as to when to adjust the gain knob of the actual MIC interface vs using a plugin. The other part of this that none of them specify is if they are putting any VSTs that are used for the MIC on the output Fx or the INPUT Fx area?

I might be wrong, but, when I as a newbie think about what I'm doing --- adjusting the gain of the signal going INTO the software, it seems logical to put any VSTs I use for that purpose on the INPUT Fx area ??? Can someone please clear this part up for me?

Here are pictures of my track setup. I am using a template that one of the users on this forum made up for me:

This is the track layout of the vocal part of the tracks (I forgot to rename the second vocal track before I took this screen shot!):




This is the VST chain on track 1 which is the DRY vocal track This is where I am most concerned if I have too many (in your opinion) Or, from the other way, maybe there is one or more VSTs that you like to use that I don't have here:




As far as the other tracks go:

Track 3 (Delay): only has reaDelay (Set to Slapback)
Track 4 (Reverb) includes
1. JS: Volume/Pan
2. MTurboReverb (I got this from Melda Productions)
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Old 06-12-2019, 12:04 PM   #2
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Ooops! I forgot to say that track 5 - Sub Vocal, where all, the vocal tracks are routed to has JS: Volume Pan on it ......
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Old 06-12-2019, 12:19 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sjs94704 View Post

I might be wrong, but, when I as a newbie think about what I'm doing --- adjusting the gain of the signal going INTO the software, it seems logical to put any VSTs I use for that purpose on the INPUT Fx area ??? Can someone please clear this part up for me?
If you want the fx altering the audio on the way in, place the fx on input



Quote:
Originally Posted by sjs94704 View Post
This is the VST chain on track 1 which is the DRY vocal track This is where I am most concerned if I have too many (in your opinion) Or, from the other way, maybe there is one or more VSTs that you like to use that I don't have here:




As far as the other tracks go:

Track 3 (Delay): only has reaDelay (Set to Slapback)
Track 4 (Reverb) includes
1. JS: Volume/Pan
2. MTurboReverb (I got this from Melda Productions)


I don't see any redundancy, but I would add an EQ after Waves Tuner as sometimes you can get unwanted artifacts, EQ can be used to correct them. I'd also add a desser. You might not need this all the time, but good to have in the chain just in case

As far as if you have too little or to many plugins. I wouldn't know until heard how your vocals, instruments etc sound in the current chain.

That's going to dictate what's needed. We add fx based on needs. For example, when I record in certain studios, i have specific EQ's set up for that specific booth, other studios... i don't need those eq's because the booth sounds good


It's like me asking if I should add more seasoning to these steaks, yet you have no idea how they taste right now.
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Old 06-12-2019, 12:33 PM   #4
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Be careful with using mono versions of plugins. REAPER always outputs stereo, so unless you have your routing pins right you will only be processing the left channel. Safest to use stereo versions of those Waves plugins.
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Old 06-12-2019, 12:42 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Judders View Post
Be careful with using mono versions of plugins. REAPER always outputs stereo, so unless you have your routing pins right you will only be processing the left channel. Safest to use stereo versions of those Waves plugins.
OK. Just for clarity sake, how does one tell the difference between MONO and stereo versions?
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Old 06-12-2019, 12:49 PM   #6
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OK. Just for clarity sake, how does one tell the difference between MONO and stereo versions?
The mono version says "mono"
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Old 06-12-2019, 12:53 PM   #7
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The mono version says "mono"
^^^ Yeah, so where it says "CLA-2A Mono (Waves)", you want the version that says "CLA-2A Stereo (Waves)".
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Old 06-12-2019, 01:18 PM   #8
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Be careful with using mono versions of plugins. REAPER always outputs stereo, so unless you have your routing pins right you will only be processing the left channel. Safest to use stereo versions of those Waves plugins.
Reaper outputs tracks to stereo even if the source is a mono signal?

If I have a mono source, should I change something in the routing pins before using a mono plugin?
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Old 06-12-2019, 01:37 PM   #9
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Be careful with using mono versions of plugins. REAPER always outputs stereo, so unless you have your routing pins right you will only be processing the left channel. Safest to use stereo versions of those Waves plugins.
For many VSTs there a choice of VST or VST3. Which one should I use?
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Old 06-12-2019, 01:40 PM   #10
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For many VSTs there a choice of VST or VST3. Which one should I use?
For most purposes it doesn't really matter. VST3 is the newer type, so I'd use that but if you have any problems then try the VST2 version.
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Old 06-12-2019, 01:43 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Giovanni_B View Post
Reaper outputs tracks to stereo even if the source is a mono signal?

If I have a mono source, should I change something in the routing pins before using a mono plugin?
Yes, REAPER always outputs 2 channels. In most cases use the stereo version, but you can request VST3's to be mono from the I/O button and then change the routing pins to output both channels.

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Old 06-12-2019, 01:58 PM   #12
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Yes, REAPER always outputs 2 channels. In most cases use the stereo version, but you can request VST3's to be mono from the I/O button and then change the routing pins to output both channels.

SKip the G channel and get that Neve, you'll love it. The E you have is my go to. I put that on every channel so, such a small footprint
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Old 06-12-2019, 02:12 PM   #13
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SKip the G channel and get that Neve, you'll love it. The E you have is my go to. I put that on every channel so, such a small footprint
I recently got the Neve for free in the sale with my monthly voucher. It's nice!

The dynamics sections are really good, especially the gate/expanders.

Oh yeah - so once you have changed the VST3 to mono, make sure you are outputting both channels. You have to close the connector window and open it again first.
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Old 06-12-2019, 02:16 PM   #14
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I recently got the Neve for free in the sale with my monthly voucher. It's nice!

The dynamics sections are really good, especially the gate/expanders.

Nice and yes it is.
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Old 06-13-2019, 05:04 PM   #15
sjs94704
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Per some of your advice, I put the following chain together. I know that often times the order that VSTs are in is very important ....

Can anyone please review and suggest any changes to the ORDER these are in?

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Old 06-13-2019, 05:13 PM   #16
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Don't worry about any further order until you have sound on the channel. That will dictate the order, my friend. Also, keep in mind, some plugins will color sound even when you don't have them dialed in
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Old 06-13-2019, 07:32 PM   #17
sjs94704
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Don't worry about any further order until you have sound on the channel. That will dictate the order, my friend. Also, keep in mind, some plugins will color sound even when you don't have them dialed in
OK.... will do ...... Thanks....
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