Old 01-23-2021, 04:18 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by schwa View Post
I'm not actually finding an API on their somewhat overdesigned website...
https://developer.dolby.com/technolo...atmos-profile/

I think you may have to sign up and get this..

Oh this page says source code to create pmd binary from XML is available on GitHub


https://developer.dolby.com/dolby-pr...-metadata-pmd/
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Old 01-23-2021, 04:20 PM   #42
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Schwa...
another feature request:

Would it be possible to have the surround panner show up in this part instead of using it as FX ?

Pls see attached image..


Having the surround panner show up there would give me the option to send to reverbs before the signal goes to surround panner. If user want it to go to send after the surround panner you could add an option in the send "follow main panner"

This will be very helpful.
I think it would be HUGE if the panner wasn't necessary a plugin, but built in to the tracks. My proposal would be in this Pan Menu, there would be another option called "XY Mode" that has a little box and a puck you can slide around. Perhaps this could link to the reasurround panner somehow so you could set it in any mode, and then the proposed XY panner could control it. It could also possibly be a fast way to open up the reasurround plugin larger for more detailed adjustments.

I know you can have a TCP plugin interface from ReaSurround, but it would be a bit more elegant if it was built in. I think in general, built in panner is more the dream (but i'll take this for now)

I think the biggest reason for this is MONO SUPPORT. I would say 75-85% of the sounds I work with are mono. Currently, if I have a reasurround panner on the track and add a mono file to it, that sound will be panned hard left, instead of center.

I know Vijay has a solution where he only has dedicated mono tracks and dedicated stereo tracks, but that's more of a protools approach than a reaper approach. It would be wonderful if there were some kind of solution that a mono file would be panned by default to the center and stereo files would be panned by default to the L/R. Hence my idea for the XY panner box. It would likely just have one positional puck that could then send the different files accordingly.

I actually wrote a script that would automatically route all mono audiofiles to channel 3 which was great, until i realized most plugins are stereo and want to see audio on channels 1&2, not 3... and then became.. well, tricky.. So anyway, some kind of consideration for a MONO FILES WORKFLOW would be super amazing!!!

Also, I have often wondered... Why does reaper require an even number of channels? I have to assume there is a very specific reason for this. But now that we are getting into multichannel, in addition to mono, i use LCR, 5.0 and 7.0 quite a bit.
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Old 01-23-2021, 04:35 PM   #43
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Has "normalize multichannel gain" been removed completely?

I use ReaSurround in a very crazy way and this feature helped a lot with my setup.

I would appreciate it if it were able to be kept in as an option if possible?

I've attached screenshots of how I use it.

One ReaSurround instance is used for "instrument bleed" for a virtual orchestra layout, which is then fed into another ReaSurround instance is which is used for "panning and positioning" within the virtual room. the normalization helped when positioning the instruments in terms of both bleed output and pan / position output.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg ReaSurround Normalize 01-min.jpg (61.7 KB, 40 views)
File Type: jpg ReaSurround Normalize 02-min.jpg (57.7 KB, 27 views)
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Old 01-23-2021, 04:51 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by svijayrathinam View Post
https://developer.dolby.com/technolo...atmos-profile/

I think you may have to sign up and get this..

Oh this page says source code to create pmd binary from XML is available on GitHub


https://developer.dolby.com/dolby-pr...-metadata-pmd/
If Dolby is offering it, there is NO reason not to include this.
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Old 01-23-2021, 04:56 PM   #45
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Has "normalize multichannel gain" been removed completely?

I use ReaSurround in a very crazy way and this feature helped a lot with my setup.
Hmm yes, the combination of absolute speaker influence and normalization was removed. We can add it back though.
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Old 01-23-2021, 05:06 PM   #46
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Hmm yes, the combination of absolute speaker influence and normalization was removed. We can add it back though.
Aaah I see! I would very much appreciate if it were still kept in if possible please. As this won't break setups with people who currently use the normalization + absolute speaker influence feature. Thank you in advance for adding this back in!
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Old 01-23-2021, 05:21 PM   #47
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does it change anything if you record arm the track?
Just to add to this. I went through and tried every preference I could think of and still got the issue.

Want to check though if anyone else gets this too? Do you see it your end?

If I'm playing back audio in the arrange, the meters and play cursor freeze in place till I stop panning the input object in reasurround.

If you're not seeing that your end then maybe it's worth me giving you a config file. Perhaps it's even a graphics card issue or multi monitor setup issue. The arrange page is on a super ultrawide that has a resolution of 5120 x 1440 but at 100% layout size. Maybe it's that weird size causing it or an nvidia setting?
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Old 01-23-2021, 07:28 PM   #48
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Just to add to this. I went through and tried every preference I could think of and still got the issue.

Want to check though if anyone else gets this too? Do you see it your end?

If I'm playing back audio in the arrange, the meters and play cursor freeze in place till I stop panning the input object in reasurround.

If you're not seeing that your end then maybe it's worth me giving you a config file. Perhaps it's even a graphics card issue or multi monitor setup issue. The arrange page is on a super ultrawide that has a resolution of 5120 x 1440 but at 100% layout size. Maybe it's that weird size causing it or an nvidia setting?
I'm seeing that behaviour as well. The UI freezes up while I pan when recording automation as well and then resumes after. It records only bits and pieces of my moves as automation. This is only while the reasurround plugin window is open. When I embed it in the MCP it doesn't freeze the UI and it records automation moves perfectly.

I get the same behaviour with DearVR Pro VST3 but not the VST2.
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Old 01-23-2021, 08:30 PM   #49
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ahhh This is super useful ! Loved that we will have an 3d surrounder.

whish I had a room with speakers on the celling maybe one day hahah... thx thx

some ideias (that might not be good or bad):

should it be possible to change the size of the room ?
In a studio I worked it had an octatonic but used an rectangle room which I don't know how would I setup with just the square option .

maybe an way to user add guide lines to make it easy to line things up ( if you have for exemple layers of speakers in Z axis you may want to line all speakers inside the layers and guide would help that )
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Old 01-23-2021, 08:31 PM   #50
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I'm seeing that behaviour as well. The UI freezes up
Ah, got it. This will only happen on non-hidpi Windows machines. Fixing!
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Old 01-23-2021, 10:13 PM   #51
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https://github.com/DolbyLaboratories


Here is the GitHub page of Dolby Labs.


And I think the below like is what the devs need for making reaper to make Dolby atmos ADM file ( Ofcourse the user have to buy their 300$ Dolby atmos production suite)

https://github.com/DolbyLaboratories/dbmd-atmos-parser
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Old 01-24-2021, 12:09 AM   #52
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Awesome work!

+1 for Dolby Atmos implementation. Audiokinetic already implemented object-based metadata to be exported from Wwise.

As for the panner functionality, I would like to also refer to the excellent work that Iosono did some years ago with their panner/upmixer AnyMix Pro.

They feature both square and circular speaker configurations, the square ones are for theatrical cinema work and the circular ones for music and domestic listening.

I also use to switch between boxed to circular speaker configurations when I have material that I don't know how it was produced panning-wise or which mic technique was used to capture the audio, and some times it helps to avoid some holes in the mix. Kind of a guerilla technique but it worked for me well.

Back to the AnyMix panner, one very cool trick, was that they allowed for sources to be placed outside of the speaker circle (or box) and also featured switchable gain and frequency filters to simulate distance from the sweet spot towards the speakers and even more outside the speaker circle. Another great feature of that panner was that as you moved your sources group towards the edges of the space, it grouped them to simulate the way we hear complicated sources form a distance as one source. A technique used a lot in game audio panning.

I made a capture of how this magnificent panner worked, showing the way it works together with distance depended loudness and filtering. You can find the small video file here: https://1drv.ms/v/s!AoFZ1MP3ewRggedR...p9H8Q?e=DXkmeT

I uploaded my copy of the AnyMix manual for your reference: https://1drv.ms/b/s!AoFZ1MP3ewRggedQ...md4mg?e=xOBE4z

All links are from my OneDrive.

I also would like to have a bigger screen to allow more precise panning with my trackball, and to help any tutorial I make or presentations in the classroom. Some good aesthetic approaches could be taken form the AnyMix color palette.

This is exciting!
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Old 01-24-2021, 01:47 AM   #53
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Ah, got it. This will only happen on non-hidpi Windows machines. Fixing!
Glad to hear that! Thanks

It might also fix a few other bugs then that I'm seeing like if come back to a heavy project after about 20 mins and then press play on reaper. Reaper will freeze for about a minute before playing or sometimes not unfreeze at all.

If that's not a fix for that above big top, I'll file a report I only get it in certain projects though.
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Old 01-24-2021, 01:53 AM   #54
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Indeed. Even though it's not free. It beats having to send off a 7.1.4 "bed" audio file to be converted into a dolby atmos file which will cost more than that to do just once and it might allow us to us objects if the API goes that far?

And it beats buying a 5k decoder from dolby that needs its own dedicated machine too

Schwa, its probably quite a bit of work to do but it would put reaper up there with nuendo and reaper for surround and would definitely bring people in to the fold

Reaper is gaining ground in game sound really fast and can do the same in film and TV too with this for sure.

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Originally Posted by svijayrathinam View Post
https://github.com/DolbyLaboratories


Here is the GitHub page of Dolby Labs.


And I think the below like is what the devs need for making reaper to make Dolby atmos ADM file ( Ofcourse the user have to buy their 300$ Dolby atmos production suite)

https://github.com/DolbyLaboratories/dbmd-atmos-parser
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Old 01-24-2021, 02:07 AM   #55
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Excellent points Joystick!

The ultimate for me on each input apart from the excellent filter suggestion and "mono-ising" at distance would be the inclusion of a simple delay for each input so we can do haas style panning. If the delay could be smoothly modulated/interpolated via automation too then that would be so so good!

I already use a haas panner plugin before reassuround connected to two different inputs on reassuround and send the same sound to to both inputs, put one front and one back and then alter the delay in the front opposite to the back. The sense of the sound moving through the middle of the room is very powerful compared to volume alone. It's frowned upon for big theatre systems that can have big delays due to a listeners seating position in the theatre but it's still amazing

Having that in reassuround would save a lot of time and allow even better setups of it (plus the one I found still has some zipper noise to it when panning)

Perhaps the delay could be a part of every channel but the "panner" would be in the edit all knob area and would then work to delay oppositely even/odd numbered pairs of grouped inputs. There could even be a new "T" button along with X, Y and Z to do the inverting of time for the link delay

That way you could group 2 stereo inputs (4 total) and do a haas pan on them very easily
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Old 01-24-2021, 02:23 AM   #56
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Feature request:

A web interface UI for reasurround. This will be so useful to do automation. It should automatically focus the selected Track’s reasurround panner . 🙏😀
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Old 01-24-2021, 02:28 AM   #57
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the inclusion of a simple delay for each input so we can do haas style panning. If the delay could be smoothly modulated/interpolated via automation too then that would be so so good!

Perhaps the delay could be a part of every channel but the "panner" would be in the edit all knob area and would then work to delay oppositely even/odd numbered pairs of grouped inputs. That way you could group 2 stereo inputs (4 total) and do a haas pan on them very easily
That is a great idea Musicbynumbers, adding psychoacoustics in the mix, pun intended!
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Old 01-24-2021, 04:48 AM   #58
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. . .

I think the biggest reason for this is MONO SUPPORT. I would say 75-85% of the sounds I work with are mono. Currently, if I have a reasurround panner on the track and add a mono file to it, that sound will be panned hard left, instead of center.

. . .
+1, would love to see 1-channel tracks in REAPER.

All those channel number options, but not for1.

Odd number channels would be good also.


>
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Old 01-24-2021, 04:55 AM   #59
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Perhaps the delay could be a part of every channel but the "panner" would be in the edit all knob area and would then work to delay pairs of grouped inputs. There could even be a new "T" button along with X, Y and Z to do the inverting of time for the link delay

That way you could group 2 stereo inputs (4 total) and do a haas pan on them very easily
Just realised that if we did get a filter too that it could work the same way with an "F" button too that would mean we could invert the filter too so opening up the filter on input one would close the filter on input 2 allowing us to do another great form of psycho-acoustic panning (as suggested by Joystick).
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Old 01-24-2021, 04:58 AM   #60
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+1, would love to see 1-channel tracks in REAPER.

All those channel number options, but not for1.

Odd number channels would be good also.


>
I'd be up for 1 channel option too.

Nathan, unless I've mistook what you mean. You can do odd number stereo groupings now but it has to be enabled in the audio page of preferences to be able to see inputs like 2-3 or 6-7 etc.
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Old 01-24-2021, 05:01 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by svijayrathinam View Post
Feature request:

A web interface UI for reasurround. This will be so useful to do automation. It should automatically focus the selected Track’s reasurround panner . 🙏😀
I wouldn't mind that but would it have low enough latency? I use the web interface we have now for individual headphone mixes but if I recall, it has latency.

I tend to do panning in atmos with either setting up something on an ipad using Lemur (via OSC) or my favourite is with a leap motion controller, my hand and a fantastic bit of software for it called "Geco_LM".

That way I can do full XYZ pannings with my hand position and still use the other 3 factors (roll, tilt and yaw) for things like filters or effects.
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Old 01-24-2021, 05:46 AM   #62
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It's really wonderful to see this new development of the ReaSurround, and it will definitely make Reaper even more must-have for anyone interested in the sound space!

Regarding the current version, the height parameter is treated very differently: instead of extending from -100 to +100, with the 0 position generally corresponding to the level of the ear, it is reduced from 0 to 100.
It was a fairly logical scale and it worked well for example for 22.2 with the 3 points on the ground, or for spherical arrangements or in the manner of 4D-Sound.
It is also curious to see that in the Presets the points normally placed halfway up are found on the ground ...
The result is that all old projects that used low positions become erroneous: points below 0 either become invisible or have gone back to 0.

If the scale is now 0 to 100, the values ​​of the old projects should be automatically adjusted so that -100 becomes 0 and 0 becomes 50 ...
Or better: could you keep ReaSurround version 1 alongside this new version?
It would allow you to be freed from compatibility issues and it would allow us to be able to read 10 years of projects ;-)
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Old 01-24-2021, 06:11 AM   #63
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Or better: could you keep ReaSurround version 1 alongside this new version?It would allow you to be freed from compatibility issues and it would allow us to be able to read 10 years of projects ;-)
This would work well, or still keep the potential depreciated features around for compatibility and have them as "tick" options somewhere in the UI.
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Old 01-24-2021, 06:28 AM   #64
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Schwa mentioned that old projects should sound the same as long as they are not changed any further but it might be a good idea to keep both as suggested for sure. (Maybe put a "2" on the end of it and make it the default?)

As for the height stuff. This will also be useful for using reasurround with ground based "speaker" sources (either phantom or real) for converting this speaker based system to an ambisonics one for VR and other sources.

I quite like doing stuff using dolby set up 7.1.4 and then converting afterwards to ambisonics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jm duchenne View Post
It's really wonderful to see this new development of the ReaSurround, and it will definitely make Reaper even more must-have for anyone interested in the sound space!

Regarding the current version, the height parameter is treated very differently: instead of extending from -100 to +100, with the 0 position generally corresponding to the level of the ear, it is reduced from 0 to 100.
It was a fairly logical scale and it worked well for example for 22.2 with the 3 points on the ground, or for spherical arrangements or in the manner of 4D-Sound.
It is also curious to see that in the Presets the points normally placed halfway up are found on the ground ...
The result is that all old projects that used low positions become erroneous: points below 0 either become invisible or have gone back to 0.

If the scale is now 0 to 100, the values ​​of the old projects should be automatically adjusted so that -100 becomes 0 and 0 becomes 50 ...
Or better: could you keep ReaSurround version 1 alongside this new version?
It would allow you to be freed from compatibility issues and it would allow us to be able to read 10 years of projects ;-)
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Old 01-24-2021, 06:35 AM   #65
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This would work well, or still keep the potential depreciated features around for compatibility and have them as "tick" options somewhere in the UI.
Agreed. although I'm guessing because some of these are now per input, the automation could get out of hand fast so devs might be hesitant to add them all back so keeping the old one retains that.

I'm hoping at least though that we will get the ability back to "shape" the sphere of influence to either flatten it to the XY domain or stretch it along the Z domain for greater height influence instead.
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Old 01-24-2021, 06:55 AM   #66
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I'm hoping at least though that we will get the ability back to "shape" the sphere of influence to either flatten it to the XY domain or stretch it along the Z domain for greater height influence instead.
Yes, and support for Layerd Based Amplitude Control will also be nice to help with heights.
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Old 01-24-2021, 07:00 AM   #67
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Schwa mentioned that old projects should sound the same as long as they are not changed any further but it might be a good idea to keep both as suggested for sure. (Maybe put a "2" on the end of it and make it the default?)
Yes, I would like that.
The V1 version has some features that are perhaps not useful for conventional surround but are nice to have for more "experimental" kinds.
It is also this sort of thing that makes Reaper different from other DAWs.
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Old 01-24-2021, 07:08 AM   #68
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Hi Justin and Schwa,


I found bug in the new reasurround in 7.1.2 mode intended for dolby atmos. When the pan puck is placed in the middle of the sound field with Z axis all the way up..reasurround bleeds sound to Ls and Rs and if i do the same with the dolby panner it only feeds the Top channels. I think its because the speaker position in Reaper surround is different to the Dolby Atmos Speaker configuration.


https://youtu.be/BOAXizrfz7c


Here is a little video showing it. I think for the panner mode it would be very helpful if reasurround can follow the traditional spec ...exactly like dolby. And since the 7.1.2 and 7.1.4 in the panner mode are intended for dolby atmos mix..it will be very helpful if it can follow the same speaker layout and levels.

Hope this helps.


thank you again for such a fantastic job !
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Old 01-24-2021, 07:30 AM   #69
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Yes, I would like that.
The V1 version has some features that are perhaps not useful for conventional surround but are nice to have for more "experimental" kinds.
It is also this sort of thing that makes Reaper different from other DAWs.

No matter what, we will make sure that old projects play back the same way. As for supporting continuing to edit old projects with the deprecated reasurround features, I'm not sure if we'll continue to transform the projects as needed into the new reasurround, or provide the old reasurround as a separate download, or package both the old and new reasurround in REAPER.
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Old 01-24-2021, 07:39 AM   #70
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As for supporting continuing to edit old projects with the deprecated reasurround features, I'm not sure if we'll continue to transform the projects as needed into the new reasurround, or provide the old reasurround as a separate download, or package both the old and new reasurround in REAPER.
Yes, separate download will be also a good solution.

Anyway, having a height space below the ear level is something that has been forgotten by "modern" spatial formats like Atmos, but nevertheless that is essential for 360° spaces, including as musicbynumbers said for ambisonics and binaural compatibility.
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Old 01-24-2021, 08:03 AM   #71
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I wouldn't mind that but would it have low enough latency? I use the web interface we have now for individual headphone mixes but if I recall, it has latency.

I tend to do panning in atmos with either setting up something on an ipad using Lemur (via OSC) or my favourite is with a leap motion controller, my hand and a fantastic bit of software for it called "Geco_LM".

That way I can do full XYZ pannings with my hand position and still use the other 3 factors (roll, tilt and yaw) for things like filters or effects.
I am using web interface to automate from my iPad . In latch mode it works absolutely fine . No delay . There is an issue with touch mode . But I think that is not the issue of the web interface. I have the same issue in touch mode on my Eucon control surface .
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Old 01-24-2021, 08:07 AM   #72
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svijayrathinam

That's good to know about the web interface. Would be useful to have then


As for the issue you have in the video. I might be wrong but I think the "bleed" is happening because the "sides" fader is also up full which I was explained as allowing bleed through to the sides or centre speaker in certain positions. Maybe that affects the tops too. That might not be it though.

Also. The top speaker positions. Yes, they should be in the middle indeed in both ITU and cinema setups

-agree about the numbers too. they should stay visible for the last clicked on so we can edit them that way too
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Old 01-24-2021, 09:23 AM   #73
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svijayrathinam


As for the issue you have in the video. I might be wrong but I think the "bleed" is happening because the "sides" fader is also up full which I was explained as allowing bleed through to the sides or centre speaker in certain positions. Maybe that affects the tops too. That might not be it though.
in 7.1.2 ITU Mode at that pan position it bleeds to the Centre speaker and the Top Speakers which isn't right.

So i this the issue here is the top speaker positions and its influence.
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Old 01-24-2021, 09:31 AM   #74
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This is why i love Reaper.

I work with post Production so this is game changing for me!


Thanks, ReaGuys.
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Old 01-24-2021, 09:34 AM   #75
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In the new panner mode in Quadraphonic set up when you put the pan puck in the right surround speaker ..i hear the sound coming out of Lfe. I think that's because the 4th Channel is LFE according to SMPTE Spec. the SMPTE Spec is L,R, C, Lfe, Ls, Rs. So the output on the quadraphonic set up should feed 1,2,3,5 outputs respectively and not 1,2,3,4 as it does now..Same issue happens in Octaphonic set up. Moving the pan puck to Centre surround feeds audio into LFE. Also in Octaphonic Box Set up too. Putting Pan Puck on right surround speaker feeds audio into LFE
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Old 01-24-2021, 09:48 AM   #76
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in 7.1.2 ITU Mode at that pan position it bleeds to the Centre speaker and the Top Speakers which isn't right.

So i this the issue here is the top speaker positions and its influence.
Yeah. I think you're right
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Old 01-24-2021, 09:49 AM   #77
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In the new panner mode in Quadraphonic set up when you put the pan puck in the right surround speaker ..i hear the sound coming out of Lfe. I think that's because the 4th Channel is LFE according to SMPTE Spec. the SMPTE Spec is L,R, C, Lfe, Ls, Rs. So the output on the quadraphonic set up should feed 1,2,3,5 outputs respectively and not 1,2,3,4 as it does now..Same issue happens in Octaphonic set up. Moving the pan puck to Centre surround feeds audio into LFE. Also in Octaphonic Box Set up too. Putting Pan Puck on right surround speaker feeds audio into LFE
Good catch.

Reasurround should ideally keep to the standard outputs for these.

That way, we can use other configs within the same project if needed
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Old 01-24-2021, 11:22 AM   #78
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Hi Schwa,

I have another issue which is very much related to this. I have made a little video to show that issue and also showed how protools handles the same issue. Pls take a look at this. The protools way could be a possible solution. But Pls think of a suitable solution for this..Pls...


Here is a video link

https://youtu.be/UEz0qD4rmqg


thank you very much..


PS: I sent you a personal message through the forum's messaging with a contact in Dolby's development team and they are quite eager to support.
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Old 01-24-2021, 11:54 AM   #79
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PS: I sent you a personal message through the forum's messaging with a contact in Dolby's development team and they are quite eager to support.
Nice work there
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Old 01-24-2021, 12:00 PM   #80
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svijayrathinam

That's an interesting idea regarding the multi mono plugins.

And although some plugins already have this in built (melda production for instance) and reaper has some ways of doing this with plugin linking or certain scripts.

A way to do this natively would be amazing. It seems like it might be difficult to do though.

Perhaps a special reaper plugin that is a container and that can "act" like this?
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