Old 11-14-2012, 01:57 PM   #1
TheWhistler
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Default tempo markers again

Hi, I wanted to remove the first 8 needles bars of a song.



The time selection is 8 bars exactly.

I have lots of tempo markers in that peace because I need to align freely played music for transcribing.
The markers are on every 1 of a bar to match the tempo.



As you can see. Region 2 1.Verse and the related tempo marker are exactly at 25.1.00.

Then I remove the first 8 bars within the time selection using this action: "time selection: Remove contents of time selection (moving later items).



As you can clearly see, the result is not like intended. When removing 8 bars, I want to see the marker to be placed on 17.1.00. Because 25 - 8 = 17.
It is on 16.4.944898 ?????

Do I use the wrong action, can´t believe that. Most likely there is (still) a bug in the way this actions moves the tempo markers.
Or can´t I expect them to stay in there relative positions when removing unwanted bars?

I am using Win7 64 and REAPER 64.

Would be nice if someone could confirm, thanks.
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Old 11-14-2012, 03:11 PM   #2
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It is v4.30, right?

I have a song mapped by tempo markers on every beat, so there is really a whole lot of them with the oddest tempo values. As far as I can see "Remove contents of time selection (moving later items)" gives me the expected result, although it's a bit hard to verify because the ruler is behaving a bit odd displaying many [nn.n.98] values where there should be [nn.(n+1).00]. I have to zoom further in than I'd like to see round measures on the ruler... But (assuming none of them slipped past my judgment), other than yours my tempo markers are all exactly where they should be.

Shouldn't there be a view showing tempo markers and/or time sig markers in a list? Similar to the region/marker manager? Surely would have helped me verifying the positions (as would a better ruler display behavior).


I think, the best would be to upload the problem project saved at the state before the measures get deleted. Without audio - actually I think you could even delete the tracks. Of interest for troubleshooting will probably be mostly the tempo map, the time selection and the project settings.
I suspect a rounding error case, it will be good to give the devs some concrete numbers to crunch, I guess




On a side note: Trying this I noticed that the time selection display in the transport was not behaving well. I had a proper readout before triggering the remove contents command [1.1.00], [9.1.00], [8.1.00]. I expect that after the remove contents function I'd get a time selection length of zero, as the time selection gets removed together with its content. Instead what I got was a readout for a zombie selection: [1.1.00], [9.1.01], [8.0.01] (also note the weird .01 values).
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Old 11-14-2012, 11:46 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gofer View Post
It is v4.30, right?



Shouldn't there be a view showing tempo markers and/or time sig markers in a list? Similar to the region/marker manager? Surely would have helped me verifying the positions (as would a better ruler display behavior).
It is 4.30 and yes sir, a better ruler behavior would be much appreciated.


Quote:
Originally Posted by gofer View Post
I think, the best would be to upload the problem project saved at the state before the measures get deleted. Without audio - actually I think you could even delete the tracks. Of interest for troubleshooting will probably be mostly the tempo map, the time selection and the project settings.
I suspect a rounding error case, it will be good to give the devs some concrete numbers to crunch, I guess
Where shall I upload it to?




Quote:
Originally Posted by gofer View Post
On a side note: Trying this I noticed that the time selection display in the transport was not behaving well. I had a proper readout before triggering the remove contents command [1.1.00], [9.1.00], [8.1.00]. I expect that after the remove contents function I'd get a time selection length of zero, as the time selection gets removed together with its content. Instead what I got was a readout for a zombie selection: [1.1.00], [9.1.01], [8.0.01] (also note the weird .01 values).
I will check the time selection if properly set up.
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Old 11-15-2012, 02:18 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWhistler View Post
Where shall I upload it to?
Right here. When you post a reply you find a "manage attachment" button below the main text input field. It allows to directly upload *rpp files up to a certain size.
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Old 11-15-2012, 12:31 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gofer View Post
Right here. When you post a reply you find a "manage attachment" button below the main text input field. It allows to directly upload *rpp files up to a certain size.
So, here you are. I deleted everything else (Tracks etc.) just the tempo markers are left.
The first 8 bars are selceted and should be deleted.

http://forum.cockos.com/attachment.p...1&d=1353007855

Last edited by TheWhistler; 06-03-2015 at 09:57 AM.
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Old 11-14-2012, 03:27 PM   #6
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A gif says more than thousands words.

Reaper 4.30, using the action "Remove contents of time selection (moving later items)"



Edit:
Timebase for items/envelopes/markers: Beats(position,length,rate)
Timebase for tempo/time signature envelope: Beats

Last edited by witti; 11-14-2012 at 04:04 PM.
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Old 11-14-2012, 04:03 PM   #7
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Dang! I tried to reproduce (using your positions and values as good as I can tell from your capture). Here is what's happening on this end (XP32 SP3):



Looks ok here.

Maybe there is some setting messing with it? What are your timebase settings for tempo/time signature?
I still think it's best to upload a project saved in a situation that you know goes wrong (before applying remove contents) to look at some definite numbers.

Last edited by gofer; 11-14-2012 at 04:41 PM.
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Old 11-14-2012, 04:22 PM   #8
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This little example project was saved with v4.21 but opened with the new 4.30 version.

I made a completely new one with v4.30.

Seems that everything is working fine now !

(At least with this very simple example.)

Sorry, didn't want to shock anyone !
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Old 11-14-2012, 04:51 PM   #9
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Don't worry . It led to a bit of intelligence here.


If you look at the end of my capture, the edit cursor snaps weird when I click on the marker. Actually I have a doubled grid line there. Plus, when I opened the tempo lane on the master track, I saw that the marker - although it reports to be spot on - actually is a tad (less than a sample, actually) in front of the bar. I found out that the setting "Snap to project sample rate" in the snap/grid setting caused that.

@ Whistler:
Can you please look into snap/grid settings for "snap to project sample rate"? And, should it be enabled, give it another shot with sample rate snapping disabled?
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Old 11-14-2012, 11:41 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gofer View Post
Don't worry . It led to a bit of intelligence here.


If you look at the end of my capture, the edit cursor snaps weird when I click on the marker. Actually I have a doubled grid line there. Plus, when I opened the tempo lane on the master track, I saw that the marker - although it reports to be spot on - actually is a tad (less than a sample, actually) in front of the bar. I found out that the setting "Snap to project sample rate" in the snap/grid setting caused that.

@ Whistler:
Can you please look into snap/grid settings for "snap to project sample rate"? And, should it be enabled, give it another shot with sample rate snapping disabled?
I´ll do that tonite. Would be superb if it would just be a click in the preferences. Thanks Gofer
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Old 11-15-2012, 12:50 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gofer View Post
Don't worry . It led to a bit of intelligence here.


If you look at the end of my capture, the edit cursor snaps weird when I click on the marker. Actually I have a doubled grid line there. Plus, when I opened the tempo lane on the master track, I saw that the marker - although it reports to be spot on - actually is a tad (less than a sample, actually) in front of the bar. I found out that the setting "Snap to project sample rate" in the snap/grid setting caused that.

@ Whistler:
Can you please look into snap/grid settings for "snap to project sample rate"? And, should it be enabled, give it another shot with sample rate snapping disabled?
I have tried that. Initially, as you suggested, I had it turned off - doesen´t work, same result weird tempo markers.
I turned it on (just for the sake of it) and it seems to get even worse.
My timebase is beats only because that is the only way to keep items "locked" to "their" bar when removing single markers.

Last edited by TheWhistler; 11-15-2012 at 10:37 PM.
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Old 11-15-2012, 12:51 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by witti View Post
This little example project was saved with v4.21 but opened with the new 4.30 version.

I made a completely new one with v4.30.

Seems that everything is working fine now !

(At least with this very simple example.)

Sorry, didn't want to shock anyone !
Doesn´t shock me at all. Maybe it is because I use a lot of really "odd" tempo markers. It is because I want to match the tempo of a free-tempo recording.
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Old 11-15-2012, 03:13 PM   #13
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What is the tempo value of your first marker after you remove the time selection? When I run it on 4.30 that marker is changed to the project tempo value instead of the value of the marker that was at measure 9. If you go into project settings and change the project tempo to the same value as the marker at measure 9 and then remove the time selection, everything seems to come out right. Seems like a bug to me.
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