Old 12-04-2010, 02:00 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by nicholas View Post
I don't have a surround speaker system and never need to do surround mixing, but I do need to document this for the User Guide and would be grateful if someone could help me please.
This is my understanding of the procedures involved. Please post and correct me, add to this, illuminate, etc.
1. Record all tracks as normal: often I assume this will be using a single mic input to record mono media items on normal 2 channel tracks, as you would for a stereo mix?
Not really...
You can of course use mono and stereo sources/records, but also quadro, 5.1 or octo ones.
With V4 we can finally record more tha two channels in a track without having to create a folder track.
So we can use multichannel mic arrays or 4 channels ambisonic mics easily.
The "standard" method consist generaly in importing and/or recording from various sources, for example voice in mono, music in stereo and ambiances in quad or 5.1, each one on one track.

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2. Put FX etc as required in individual tracks.
3. Add a Surround track. To do this, select existing tracks, use action add a new surround track using selected tracks as source audio. I notice it uses different channels for each track's input to the surround track - this I don't understand. Track 1 to ch 1/2, track 2 to ch 3/4, track 3 to ch 5/6, etc.
Generally, each track has its own surround pan, and we don't need to create a new "master" surround one.
Simply insert a ReaSurround plug in the chain, or in other hosts (or lately in Reaper ?) select the surround pan instead of the stereo one.
Each track output simply goes to the master track, all channels go directly to the corresponding surround channel in the master.

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4. I adjust surround panner parameters to suit.
Yes, on EACH track.

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Assuming this is right so far, what next?
I notice that when I add the surround track in this way, direct output from individual tracks still go individually straight to the Master and that no direct hardware outs are added to this track.
So what steps do I then need to actually mix down in, say, 5:1?
I'm totally out of my depth here I'm afraid, any simple help appreciated!
Thanks!
Mixing in multichannel is not so different than to do in stereo : simply change the stereo routing with a multichannel one.
The very good point with Reasurround, is that you can very easily adapt the number of inputs channels without having to change the track type.
And when it will work accurately as an item FX, it will be even more easy to work with mono/stereo/multi sources.
It will be also easy to do a 5.1 and a 7.1 version within the same project : simply change the Presets (where other hosts need to change the surround pan and broke the automations !).

The method that you describe looks more like mixing in stereo a multi-outputs instrument plugin.
It is of course also possible, and very useful in some circumstances, but more complicated and among all reduces the mixing possibilities.
Having a surround pan on each track (or each object, like in Samplitude) allows to have a very fine control on placements, envelopements and movements.

Hope that it may help ;-)
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Old 12-04-2010, 02:06 AM   #42
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I notice it uses different channels for each track's input to the surround track - this I don't understand. Track 1 to ch 1/2, track 2 to ch 3/4, track 3 to ch 5/6, etc.
Yes, it is logical and the only way to have each input corresponding to each selected track.
You can place each mono source/track in the surround field.
In this case, it will be usefull to be able to rename each input according to the track name, or even better, it could be done automatically when creating the surround track.
Of course, here we must have true mono tracks instead of using two channels for mono sounds ! Currently it is pratically unusable with mono sources with this method.
Perhaps is this that you "don't understand" ?

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Old 12-04-2010, 03:06 AM   #43
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Default Inputs vs outputs

Example :
You want to place a stereo sound in a 5.1 field, something very common...

You setup your master for a 6 channels outputs.
You create a track and put your sound.
You insert a ReaSurround plug. By default, if you have not previously set the channel number of the track to 6, it will show 2 inputs in a stereo output field. Logical.
Choose "5.1 surround" as the speakers setup : you have now 6 inputs too !
Note that if you set the channel number of the track to 6 before inserting ReaSurround, it will be automatically set to "5.1 surround", which is good, but also with 6 inputs...

It seems that actually you cannot have less inputs than outputs when inserted as a track FX ?
As an itemFX, the number of inputs is the one of the audio file's channels, which is good, but, if we can choose a higher number of ouputs, no sound is sent on them... which is a shame

It is good and logical that the number of speakers is linked to the number of the track outputs, but we must be able to choose manually the number of inputs we need (even 1 !).

It would also be nice to have a switch to deactivate this automatic link, since we can use ReaSurround for other purposes, like to be used as a dynamic fx send/mix (for example within a chain like : ReaSurround 2>8 / 4 stereo FX in parallel / ReaSurround 8>2, in a stereo track).

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Old 12-04-2010, 07:27 AM   #44
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In film and TV mixing we deal with mono, but also a lot of stereo elements, which is why you often see two surround panner joysticks on consoles.

Quad backgrounds are appearing in greater numbers as well, which is where the rotation controls come in handy. Some mixers leave those static, some don't and go for rotation and other effects.

Nothing however is nailed down. We used to have to place things on mono tracks, as Protools actually didn't have stereo tracks up until v5.1. Some effects editors do things to prepare complex and fast panning moves ahead of time, either through the hand-automated use of panners or simply a bunch of crossfades across mono or stereo tracks that feed in to a quad or 5.1 bus. Few are going to relinquish the opportunity of using the surround panner in all their tracks.

What Reaper could do with is a bus limiter actually. There are a bunch of them that work well on more than two channels, including the Waves 360 plugins and Voxengo plugins.
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Old 12-04-2010, 07:34 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by jm duchenne View Post
It seems that actually you cannot have less inputs than outputs when inserted as a track FX ?
This is a good point, we should make the input channel count a separate entry box.

For mono sources or item FX, the thing to do is use the FX pin connector dialog (click the button that says something like "6 in/6 out", to map any track input channel to any ReaSurround channel (or map a track input channel to nothing).

(We should also add the ability to rename inputs in ReaSurround.)
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Old 12-04-2010, 07:49 AM   #46
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As I was trying to make a 3.1 setup for classic LCRS panning, I accidentally entered 34 speakers in the box. ReaSurround helpfully expanded the track channels immediately instead of waiting for me to hit return or perhaps even changing the channel count back down to 4 when I deleted the 3.

A 2->6 setup seems to incur redundant controls that cannot be removed. Readability would get a boost if this were possible.

I also couldn't reduce the number of input pins any longer.

The "x in y out" button in the plugin window between the "Param" and the "UI" button also sometimes does not reflect the changes in channel count instantly when I change the number of speakers.

We definitely need a way of changing the number of inputs from within the plugin.

-edit-
[removed] Scratch that last comment.

ReaSurround does not respond to changes in VST Input Pin numbers, specifically when I reduce the number of pins, nor to changes in the channel count of the track, again when I reduce the number of channels. If you're trying to protect automation as a user reduces the number of available channels on a track, then at least a greying out of the unavailable input sources in the plugin would be a good indicator.

Suggestion
Right-click context menu for Copy/Pasting Diffusion settings between selected channels.

Question to all other Surround Panner users
Should the panner include a pan law ? How do other surround panners handle this ?
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Old 12-04-2010, 08:28 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by schwa View Post
This is a good point, we should make the input channel count a separate entry box.

For mono sources or item FX, the thing to do is use the FX pin connector dialog (click the button that says something like "6 in/6 out", to map any track input channel to any ReaSurround channel (or map a track input channel to nothing).

(We should also add the ability to rename inputs in ReaSurround.)
That sounds like a great idea, I like the ability to allow people to choose either;

1_ sending all tracks to an UBER surround buss (so that you can pan all tracks in one interface) OR..

2_ having a mono or stereo input surround panner on each channel sending out to the master.

I really think you should be able to link stereo channels (i.e. 1 with 2 and 3 with 4) in such a way that you can set set there initial positions and then lock then to each other so moving the first moves and automates the other.

Without this you have to pan the tracks or turn them into mono sends.
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Old 12-04-2010, 08:33 AM   #48
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I've not tried this yet, so all I can say is "finally!"!
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Old 12-04-2010, 08:38 AM   #49
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Suggestion 1.

Let the user constrain movements of the input channel blobs to all combined areas covered by the speakers. Else it's quite possible to accidentally mute the channels. Is this a good idea for you other ladies and gentlemen mixers as well ?

Suggestion 2

This could speed up access to the rotary custom controls for mouse users.
Place buttons above or below that section with helpful icons to switch the three custom rotary controls to useful sets, even custom setups. Right-click on buttons to save or select presets/user settings.




On and btw, knobs in a Reaper plugin, who'd have thought. Ya had to. Not really your fault.
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Old 12-04-2010, 09:05 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by jm duchenne View Post
You know, it is also possible without ambisonic, espacially with ReaSurround ans its Diffusion parameters (Level, Bias, Rotate).
It is a little more work, since you have to setup the speakers and the sources manually, but you have also a better control on what you do.
There are many other ambisonic encoders and decoders available. If we could export from Reapers Ambisonic Bus, then surround mixes made in Reaper could be easily ported to other playback environments just as long as they have an ambisonic decoder available!
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Old 12-04-2010, 10:20 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by schwa View Post
For mono sources or item FX, the thing to do is use the FX pin connector dialog (click the button that says something like "6 in/6 out", to map any track input channel to any ReaSurround channel (or map a track input channel to nothing).
The FX pin connector is no use for item FX since we cannot adress more outputs than the number of the channels of the file.
I had requested this feature some time ago :
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.p...309#post331309
It is not the most important actually, but it will be very usefull when available...
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Old 12-04-2010, 10:22 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by AudiOishi View Post
There are many other ambisonic encoders and decoders available. If we could export from Reapers Ambisonic Bus, then surround mixes made in Reaper could be easily ported to other playback environments just as long as they have an ambisonic decoder available!
Yes, it would avoid to have to encode it before export, but I doubt that ReaSurround makes any use of ambisonic coding.
The developpers must tell us ?

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Old 12-04-2010, 10:26 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by musicbynumbers View Post
I really think you should be able to link stereo channels (i.e. 1 with 2 and 3 with 4) in such a way that you can set set there initial positions and then lock then to each other so moving the first moves and automates the other.
I find the current implementation of grouping whatever combination of inputs blobs by hand (Ctrl + right click and lasso) perfect. But it needs to be associated with some presets system to lock, store and recall such combinations.

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Old 12-04-2010, 10:34 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airon View Post
Suggestion
Right-click context menu for Copy/Pasting Diffusion settings between selected channels.
Yes !

Quote:
Question to all other Surround Panner users
Should the panner include a pan law ? How do other surround panners handle this ?
Yes too.
The graphical one that is used in Samplitude is very nice and powerful. But I like also the preset shapes I use in my acousmodules (simpler and faster to use).
In all cases, yes, we need it...
Question : is it better for the inputs (as a modifier for the Diffusion setting), or for the outputs as a global parameter (will change the "pan law" for all the yellow circles).

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Old 12-04-2010, 10:50 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by jm duchenne View Post
I find the current implementation of grouping whatever combination of inputs blobs by hand (Ctrl + right click and lasso) perfect. But it needs to be associated with some presets system to lock, store and recall such combinations.
I mean really group them so that you can automate them like they were the same thing. One way round this is using our fantastic parameter grouping system which allows for great control over this side of things but would be nice to have it in the panner.

As an additional thing, I think being able to have say a mono input but a 5.1 output without seeing the additional points 2-5 will help clarity too.
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Old 12-04-2010, 10:59 AM   #56
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I mean really group them so that you can automate them like they were the same thing.
Hmm... Isn'it exactly what can be done now ? Except of course that when you have finished recording your automation, the group is lost (but the automation remains !). You will have to re-select them next time.

Quote:
As an additional thing, I think being able to have say a mono input but a 5.1 output without seeing the additional points 2-5 will help clarity too.
See the latest answer from schwa : it will be done.
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Old 12-04-2010, 12:33 PM   #57
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Ah, Jm, I think I get you now, so the automation for say channel two gets written if I have selected both one and two but only move one? if so very cool!

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Hmm... Isn'it exactly what can be done now ? Except of course that when you have finished recording your automation, the group is lost (but the automation remains !). You will have to re-select them next time.
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Old 12-04-2010, 12:40 PM   #58
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Default speaker arrangement

Related to the surround capabilities, this bug is something I posted over a year ago:

http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=36271

Reaper is lacking some sort of VST capability that some surround plugs (Uhbik) require to be able to know what arrangement the channels are in. ("speaker arrangement"). Seems like a part of the VST spec that Reaper might want to (PLLLLEEEEEEASE) implement given this new enhanced surround capability.

PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEASE.
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Old 12-04-2010, 01:19 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by jm duchenne View Post
I find the current implementation of grouping whatever combination of inputs blobs by hand (Ctrl + right click and lasso) perfect. But it needs to be associated with some presets system to lock, store and recall such combinations.
How about a small row of buttons that the user can reconfigure and are part of the overall speaker placement presets.

Suggestions for 5.1 buttons: Front, Center, Rear, LRLsRs
Suggestions for 3.1: L-R, C, S, C-S

What else could such buttons be ? They could perhaps set up some custom controls as well, such as Rotation, Expand/Contract and Front/Back for the LRLsRs set in a 5.1 scenario.
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Old 12-04-2010, 01:23 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by jm duchenne View Post
Question : is it better for the inputs (as a modifier for the Diffusion setting), or for the outputs as a global parameter (will change the "pan law" for all the yellow circles).
Pan law concern the relationship of the outputs to one another, so I guess this would need to apply to the distances of the speakers to one another in a surround setup as well.
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Old 12-04-2010, 01:55 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blakflag View Post
Related to the surround capabilities, this bug is something I posted over a year ago:
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=36271
Reaper is lacking some sort of VST capability that some surround plugs (Uhbik) require to be able to know what arrangement the channels are in. ("speaker arrangement"). Seems like a part of the VST spec that Reaper might want to (PLLLLEEEEEEASE) implement given this new enhanced surround capability.
PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEASE.
Yes, there is the same problem with Virsyn plugins, all multichannel routings are unavailable.

[edit] But the real question is : why do Uhbik relay on this code to activate channels ? All it does is to prevent its plugins to work in a lot of hosts (modular ones). Most programmers don't use it and their plugins work everywhere.
In Reaper, contrary to Cubase or Protools, tracks are not fixed to one kind only (Stereo OR 5.1), but can be dynamically changed.

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Old 12-04-2010, 01:59 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by airon View Post
Pan law concern the relationship of the outputs to one another, so I guess this would need to apply to the distances of the speakers to one another in a surround setup as well.
Yes, it is what I think too. Together with a parameter to increase/decrease its radius.
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Old 12-04-2010, 05:28 PM   #63
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Is there any way one can control the number of inputs? For example if I select user defined and then I input 8 speakers it automatically creates 8 inputs and I can't delete them. Is there a way to have (for example) 1 input and 8 speakers?
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Old 12-04-2010, 05:46 PM   #64
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Is there any way one can control the number of inputs? For example if I select user defined and then I input 8 speakers it automatically creates 8 inputs and I can't delete them. Is there a way to have (for example) 1 input and 8 speakers?
Schwa said this should be coming at some point I believe
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Old 12-05-2010, 01:15 AM   #65
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Is there any way one can control the number of inputs? For example if I select user defined and then I input 8 speakers it automatically creates 8 inputs and I can't delete them. Is there a way to have (for example) 1 input and 8 speakers?
This is definitely needed!

What would be awesome is a new format I/O matrix for each channel, where we can define the number of inputs and outputs then set where each output routs to. As a few examples in a 5.1 setup:

1. I have a mono track (we really need proper mono tracks in REAPER) and I want to pan within a quad formation. So I setup 1 in and 4 outs consisting of L, R, Ls, Rs.

2. I have a mono track and I want to pan it between L and Ls. So it can move from the front to the rear channel on my left side. I set up 1 in and 2 outs.

3. I have a stereo track and I want to pan it between L and Rs. So it is on a diagonal. I set up 2 ins and 2 outs.

This would ideally work using an I/O matrix similar to what we have now but instead of just a tick box, each is a dropdown menu where you define where the out goes (ie. L, C, R, etc.). We could also have the option of creating and saving custom speaker locations.

Also needed is an option to decide the frequency crossover for the LFE channel (80Hz or 120Hz, or totally user definable!) and whether this is engaged or not.

[IMG]http://img338.**************/img338/4732/reapersurroundio.png[/IMG]
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Old 12-05-2010, 01:34 AM   #66
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Alternatively we continue down the same path we are currently, with preset formations (5.1, 7.1, etc.) but make these user configurable. This is how Pro Tools does it:

[IMG]http://img269.**************/img269/6718/protools2iosetupl.jpg[/IMG]

On the left you name your formation (5.1, LCR, etc.) then you click the boxes in the matrix to chose which channels will be included.

Again it would be awesome to have user definable (and saveable) speaker locations. Even more awesome if the room could be 3D and we could get height happening!
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Old 12-05-2010, 02:38 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by jdutaillis View Post
Alternatively we continue down the same path we are currently, with preset formations (5.1, 7.1, etc.) but make these user configurable. This is how Pro Tools does it:

[IMG]http://img269.**************/img269/6718/protools2iosetupl.jpg[/IMG]

On the left you name your formation (5.1, LCR, etc.) then you click the boxes in the matrix to chose which channels will be included.
We must not confuse the master routing, what you show in Protools setup (or in Nuendo and other DAWs), and the ReaSurround inputs/outputs settings.

I agree that some kind of "master connection presets" will help to switch between multichannel setups with the soundcard. Especially because the connection between LCRLsRs names and output numbers is not fixed and depends on the standard (ITU, SMPTE, DTS...).

But concerning the ouput speakers choices, the free positionning method that is available in ReaSurround is for me, by far, the easiest and the more flexible way. And when we can rename the inputs and speakers labels it will be complete.

Quote:
Again it would be awesome to have user definable (and saveable) speaker locations.
Actually, they are. It only lacks perhaps to save the "User setups" in the presets list. But the plugin presets system can already be used for this very well.

On the other hand, we all agree that a system of named snapshots for storing/recalling groups of inputs and how inputs/outputs are muted is needed.

Quote:
Even more awesome if the room could be 3D and we could get height happening!
Do you mean a perspective or top 3D view ?
I am not sure that it will really help...
I am very concerned with this problem, and I have tried several solutions within my plugins, but none is very satisfactory.
It can works when there is a few speakers/inputs, but becomes rapidly difficult to understand. And it is mainly needed with high number of speakers.
The best solution I have used is to have two views : top and front (or side), like in a 3D modeler.
The current proposition for height positions in ReaSurround has the merit to exist and works well, but the graphical part must be certainly improved and perhaps changed.

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Old 12-05-2010, 04:06 AM   #68
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How about using a modifier to snap the input blobs to speakers, so we can easily create channel remappings, or just because we want to snap a blob to something in the panner.

Btw, has anyone tried ALT+click and drag on the blobs ? It changes the location of the blob but leaves the origin that gets pushed around by the custom controls in place.

I don't quite understand why the blob can only be moved along a certain line from its origin.

ALT+doubleclick resets the blobs shift from its origin.
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Old 12-05-2010, 05:23 AM   #69
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How about using a modifier to snap the input blobs to speakers, so we can easily create channel remappings, or just because we want to snap a blob to something in the panner.
Yes, excellent idea !

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Btw, has anyone tried ALT+click and drag on the blobs ? It changes the location of the blob but leaves the origin that gets pushed around by the custom controls in place.
I don't quite understand why the blob can only be moved along a certain line from its origin.
ALT+doubleclick resets the blobs shift from its origin.
You mean the height line ?
Yes, it is a little odd, but I understand the idea of showing that the speaker is at the top, or at the bottom of the height line, and the base of the line represents its 2D position. It makes a kind of 2D/3D view that is not very satisfactory (the line angle is a kind of perspective view ?), but at least is usable. The line acts like a slider.
I recognize that I have no better idea actually, except of course to associate to the current top view a front or side view... (the choice I've made).
All attemps to show the height position inside a 2D view (like in Magix Music Maker) are not very legible, even with only a few speakers.
In Nuendo, the top speakers in 10.2 are in the same fixed position as the bottom ones. The elevation of the inputs is only symbolized by the color of the level bar (blue/yellow). So it is easy.
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Old 12-05-2010, 08:25 AM   #70
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Height. Haha. Why didn't I think of that.

The new ReaSurround version in alpha 5 adds a text entry box for the number of input channels. Nice.
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Old 12-05-2010, 09:54 AM   #71
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Yes, there is the same problem with Virsyn plugins, all multichannel routings are unavailable.

[edit] But the real question is : why do Uhbik relay on this code to activate channels ? All it does is to prevent its plugins to work in a lot of hosts (modular ones). Most programmers don't use it and their plugins work everywhere.
In Reaper, contrary to Cubase or Protools, tracks are not fixed to one kind only (Stereo OR 5.1), but can be dynamically changed.
It's a good question. At risk of going off-topic... Certainly it would be nice if all plugs worked independently of speaker arrangements. But on the other hand it doesn't really make sense, does it? If you're implementing reverb or surround fx, you DO need to know which is the front and which is the back, and which are bass channels, to do calculations correctly. Without cues telling you this is 6.2 vs 7.1 etc, theres no way to intelligently do these calculations. Thus I petition the Reaper gents to give more information instead of asking Urs from u-he to do without the information.
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Old 12-05-2010, 02:02 PM   #72
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That sounds like a great idea, I like the ability to allow people to choose either;

1_ sending all tracks to an UBER surround buss (so that you can pan all tracks in one interface) OR..

2_ having a mono or stereo input surround panner on each channel sending out to the master.
Well put. There are two methods here.

Some film consoles i've worked on permit you to bring to one window a selection of inputs, so you can assess the relationships between them accordingly. This method can be extremely useful, particularly as in Reasurround you can group them and then rotate the whole lot, etc.

Wonderful. What a flexible tool. Does Height too, so great for installations, custom industrial situations, arty type things.

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Old 12-05-2010, 02:11 PM   #73
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Happily I think it is not !
Otherwise it would be impossible to set the speakers where we want (outside of a sphere) and would lack precision for high amount of speakers.
It would also have to encode/decode each time, and in second or third order it would be very CPU consuming !

On the other hand, I agree that a special ReaAmbisonic encoder and decoder will be useful for WXYZ recordings, since Windows users don't have access to Daniel Courville's plugins.
It doesn't sound like ambisonics to me. It's very stable over a wide area , and doesnt appear to need regular arrays to work properly. If it is, i'll be completely amazed.

I'm familiar with HOA ambisonic technologies, but just try putting three speakers spaced by a meter in a line and one off at a 60 degree angle and tell me it works. (I had this task at an interactive demonstration, and 5th order Ambisonics couldnt help in the slightest). VBAP won that day. Horses for courses, etc.
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Old 12-05-2010, 02:29 PM   #74
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Default alpha 5 -

In alpha 5 --

When adjusting the output channel numbers, the vst pin connection at the top still says '2 x 2' or whatever, until you go away from the plug and come back, or do some other operations.

The maximum number of inputs shown in the mute/solo box is 16. Would a scroll box be possible?

The maximum number of speakers on the GUI appears to be 16. Any chance of some more? (say, up to Reaper's channel limit of 64). Not that i've never needed that many myself, but it would be cool to have to option if that theme park install gig came along...

.. but there again, this is a tool which is going to be of huge benefit to so many people who were not able to access surround panning before, and provide good/better quality/flexability to those of us who have other options available.

Finally, Schwa, what's the technology behind this please? We're all guessing..
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Old 12-05-2010, 03:45 PM   #75
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New box for adding input channels is sweet
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Old 12-05-2010, 08:09 PM   #76
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In alpha 5 --

When adjusting the output channel numbers, the vst pin connection at the top still says '2 x 2' or whatever, until you go away from the plug and come back, or do some other operations.
Hmm, this button seems to update immediately for me. Could you give a specific example of a change that does not update the pin connector button as expected?
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Old 12-05-2010, 08:24 PM   #77
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It's a good question. At risk of going off-topic... Certainly it would be nice if all plugs worked independently of speaker arrangements. But on the other hand it doesn't really make sense, does it?
this is how ambisonics works. and yes, it makes sense, and yes, it works.

you encode the desired position of the source with the source signal (this type of audio signal is called b-format). the b-format signals all do go an ambisonics decoder, which knows about the actual speaker arrangement, and does a bunch of math to put each source in the right place in the soundfield. ambisonics has some issues, but it also does a LOT of things right.
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Old 12-05-2010, 08:38 PM   #78
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Hmm, this button seems to update immediately for me. Could you give a specific example of a change that does not update the pin connector button as expected?
Me too, even on closing and re-open BUT it does update the track channel amount (but will have to check again to be sure)
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Old 12-05-2010, 09:50 PM   #79
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I insert Reasurround on a standard track with two channels. The plugin comes up with a 2x2 config. All is well.

I pick a 5.1 speaker config. The channel count on both the speakers and the track jumps to six. However, the pins are not connected for the additional four speakers. Should a change in the channel count automatically connect the pins as well ?

I think yes.

Changing the input channel count certainly does this. ReaSurround actually already does this for changes in a user-defined speaker setup, but not for the presets such as quad to 9.1.

I can understand why ReaSurround will not cut back the channel count of the track it sits on, as there could be other plugins at work.
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Old 12-06-2010, 01:00 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by blakflag View Post
It's a good question. At risk of going off-topic... Certainly it would be nice if all plugs worked independently of speaker arrangements. But on the other hand it doesn't really make sense, does it? If you're implementing reverb or surround fx, you DO need to know which is the front and which is the back, and which are bass channels, to do calculations correctly. Without cues telling you this is 6.2 vs 7.1 etc, theres no way to intelligently do these calculations.
It can be done inside the plugin itself. See Voxengo ones. According to what I have seen, multichannl in U-he's plugins is only done by duplicating the processings. You have no access to different settings by channel.

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Thus I petition the Reaper gents to give more information instead of asking Urs from u-he to do without the information.
Or both ?
He can use this information when it exists, and do without it in other cases.
I've tried Uhbik plugins in all my modular softwares (Audiomulch, Bidule, Usine), and none of them can uses them as multichannel. It is

But you're right, it would be also very nice if Reaper could technically send this information to the plugins !
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