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Old 03-23-2011, 07:11 AM   #1
White Tie
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Default >>V4 : Theme 22 March Discussion - Read First Post



Changelog
  • Big rework. This theme has tested very well, bear with it.
  • Lots and lots of Walter for lots and lots of resizing intelligence.

Known problems / Limitations / Undone

Things which should be considered 'final'
  • Nothing
Overall
  • Bad meters. All meters. All Bad.
  • Almost all mouseover/mousedown states missing.
  • Faders yet to be addressed
  • Vertical Scrollbar bug on IO window, believed to be Reaper transparency bug.
  • Automation buttons don't use the 'pressed' appearance and colouring. Undecided.
  • Large pan knobs' pointer overruns the knob
Transport:
  • On states are ...contentious. Please advise ( < asking you a direct question, please!)
TCP
  • Particularly outrageous and blatant meter hack
  • Final layouts should be based on element heirarchy drawn from user feedback; these aren't.
  • Unknown top right hand corner artifact when icons present but hidden due to low track width
  • Track Icons don't do the vertical center thing; unavoidable.
  • Some layouts hide controls to improve clarity, for user to choose in appropriate circumstances. Obviously unsuited to inappropriate circumstances...
EnvCPs
  • Preliminary Walter
Inline ME
  • Untouched
Items
  • Return of the V3 strategy. We tried many things, this was always best. I think we have now proved this, if you think otherwise that's cool, but please bring powerful evidence.
Generics
  • Much yet to do.
  • Plugin knob pointer colour troubles.
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Old 03-23-2011, 07:28 AM   #2
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1. RMS Meter still ugly (please read the first post- WT)
2. Maintoolbar = grey background here (not dark grey as in your screenshot) (fixed in 56b- WT)
3. Playstate text = unreadable on small undocked transport (not a theme thing- WT)
4. Pan knobs = weird and almost unusable faders here (fixed in 56b- WT)

Last edited by White Tie; 03-23-2011 at 09:37 AM.
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Old 03-23-2011, 07:39 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
Oops, the theme did not get put into the installer completely. I've taken the build down, we'll put it back as soon as all the parts are in.
From V4alpha56 thread...

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Old 03-23-2011, 07:46 AM   #4
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tcp fader right alignment looks off by 1 pixel

I really don't like the blobby mcp rec_arm button ...... why can it not just be in line with the other mcp buttons? I don't understand the need for it to be connected to the meter/fader area ...

//////

But ... I like it - looks nice.

... it's got the V3 logo on the master as well ...
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Old 03-23-2011, 07:53 AM   #5
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I like this button :-) adds a kind of "organic" to the UI... please, don't replace'm!
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Old 03-23-2011, 07:58 AM   #6
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I really like those maintoolbar buttons, colors and pictures much clearer.

About the "boot" on mcp rec arm button, maybe it could be extended to right, so that rec arm button would align with other buttons.

Sorry if I write badly, I just don't have the energy to keep dictionary open all the time
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Old 03-23-2011, 08:06 AM   #7
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I love the theme but not the icons and there is not much choice to customize the floating and main toolbar. Thank's for your work !
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Old 03-23-2011, 08:13 AM   #8
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"I really don't like the blobby mcp rec_arm button ...... why can it not just be in line with the other mcp buttons? I don't understand the need for it to be connected to the meter/fader area ..."

+++++1 on this
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Old 03-23-2011, 08:16 AM   #9
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I would love if inputs have their own place in global layout on the mixer,so I can see in every moment which track is using which input
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Old 03-23-2011, 08:23 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dstruct View Post
Playstate text = unreadable on small undocked transport)
indeed.
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Old 03-23-2011, 08:30 AM   #11
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Also would like to say those ultra shinny toolbars buttons( for exemple the green ) are very distractive. I can Iamgine docking a lot of toolbars
will be a lot of distraction to the eyes.


My two cents....
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Old 03-23-2011, 08:43 AM   #12
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I think the new theme is very usable and extremely well considered from a graphic design standpoint.

A lovely piece of GUI art, in fact.

Is there any chance of a laptop layout where the TCP, when as thin as it can be, just shows the track number?

My screen is 1024 x 576 !
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Old 03-23-2011, 08:55 AM   #13
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fine work on colours here, items nice.

anyway - a gripe is mixer, the mute and solo have got too small/insignificant related to their use, importance and for just easy clicking. they were bigger.

one ******* pan knob takes up the same space as mute & solo.

as previously stated i cannot fathom the reason for such large pan knobs they are an unnecessary visual distraction space hog on what are essentially set and forget items.

squint and look at mixer, all you see is pan stuff. then think how often you actually 'tweak' a pan knob or need to quickly know what a tracks pan setting is in a given session.


i like the white on dark faders - you say faders getting attention perhaps they are a touch 'high'/long at the mo.

overall its far better than before that's for sure, will it top rado we shall see! bestoluck.
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Old 03-23-2011, 09:05 AM   #14
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The media items in this theme I like, but I still don't understand: why do selected items = dark? Contrary to everything else in Reaper? Which also makes selected items look very close to muted items. I have modified a different theme to have selected items become brighter, and it works great.
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Old 03-23-2011, 09:17 AM   #15
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This is not from any extensive testing, but was just immediate reaction (which is hopefully also useful).

The overall look is very nice, and I like the way items are displayed.. very clear!

I couldn't find how to show pan width controls.. at all (and gave up) .. EDIT: Found it, it shows when you select stero panning. That's nice.

I couldn't discover how to alter the layout of the master in the mixer.

I tried the "tracking" layout in the TCP, expecting to see some big meters .. but didn't.

Hopefully, the forum will give some guidance as to the hows and whys over time.

Last edited by Alistair S; 03-23-2011 at 05:11 PM.
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Old 03-23-2011, 09:42 AM   #16
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Great work!
Personally I feel the selected media item color doesn't work and the general pale green is not my favourite either, something like the grey and black used on the Bombardier plug-in would be beautiful in this design.
On the transport the rate fader stands out negatively, otherwise I like it.
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Old 03-23-2011, 09:51 AM   #17
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Default Excellent!, just one thing..

I like the icon graphics just fine but not the difference between pressed and unpressed coloration states. The dark green (off) to light green (on) isn't as clear as the blue/gray (off) to green/light green (on) in v3.

I think it'd look better/be more clear without any green in the off state of the buttons. Not a super big deal to me, but I thought I'd mention it.

Anyway, that's about the only thing I can think of. I love how things are shaping up. Awesome work!
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Old 03-23-2011, 09:53 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timlloyd View Post
I really don't like the blobby mcp rec_arm button ...... why can it not just be in line with the other mcp buttons? I don't understand the need for it to be connected to the meter/fader area ...

//////

But ... I like it - looks nice.
+ 1,000,000
Overall I like it a LOT but that button is just not okay. And knobs for pan... I dunno. Perhaps the little line should be thicker?
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Old 03-23-2011, 09:54 AM   #19
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I think the theme is clean,functional,and easy to get around...generally good contrast and labelling.

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Old 03-23-2011, 09:56 AM   #20
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Quote:
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I think it'd look better/be more clear without any green in the off state of the buttons.
I do agree with this though...
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Old 03-23-2011, 10:05 AM   #21
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Great first, second and third impression.

The vertical TCP is nice. I have access to the FX button even though the TCP is real narrow.

As for the MCP, Large is a flavour I much prefer over standard, and Narrow is just great for larger mixes and it keeps all the elements available.

If anything I'd ask for impossible stuff, so I'll go back and use it a lot now and report back when I've got something more practical to contribute.
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Old 03-23-2011, 10:14 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evan View Post
The media items in this theme I like, but I still don't understand: why do selected items = dark? Contrary to everything else in Reaper? Which also makes selected items look very close to muted items. I have modified a different theme to have selected items become brighter, and it works great.
Agree with this. Muted items color should be closer to backround.

Icon graphics should be darker when button's state is off.

Don't change anything on the blobby rec/arm button ! It gives life and fun on Reaper interface.

Anyway, it's a very fine job. I think I'll work with this GUI. All my thankfulness to the whole theme team and mainly to the greaaat WHITE TIE!!!
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Old 03-23-2011, 10:33 AM   #23
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My 2 cents; I don't like very much the icon colours: instead of green I would have preferred by far yellow or white coupled with red; also, daltonic people could be happy about that, but for me it's more about too much green around.

The arrangement and all the rest are great though.

- Mario
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Old 03-23-2011, 10:57 AM   #24
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> overall brightness looks very good now (not too much so)

> icons blend in nicely without distracting (can we have more woodwind and brass?)

> selected track easy to distinguish without being too bright

> easy to distinguish folders and subfolders in both TCP and MCP

> color scheme is easy on the eyes

Overall, an excellent improvement
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Old 03-23-2011, 10:59 AM   #25
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Quote:
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the general pale green is not my favourite either
completely yes ...

What is it with the green/blue?

First thing I would do to this theme (after fixing the mcp_recarm) is turn everything grey

If the underlying theme is based around greys ... then adding colour to items, groups, track backgrounds etc ... actually works - things are easily visible.

With colourful themes, adding more colours as mentioned ^^ just turns it into a big visual mess.

{I know I'm being harsh ... it's because I like the theme overall}
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Old 03-23-2011, 11:22 AM   #26
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awesome, awesome work guys!!!

A few things I personally don't like:
1. The open/save icons are not like what I think every program I've used uses (folder/floppy)... and the disks are pretty behind the times... we're on SSD now (yes, I realize floppies are even older)
2. In general the top toolbar does look rather busy, and I don't care for the pastel-ey green. Just doesn't seem to match the rest of the theme.
3. Record-Arm button... like what others have said... just looks strange in that position. It also doesn't mimic the TCP rec-arm button
4. The mixer's FX on/off button feels like it should be below the FX button. Same with the IO (if you want them lined up)
5. The "indent" surrounding the big pan knob in the mixer doesn't seem to fit the shape well. Maybe it's the sharp corner on the bottom right of the knob interacting with the knobs shadow. I'd try making it the same as other pan knobs (where it doesn't surround the knob) or make the corners to the right of the knob not sharp.

Anyways, these are just nitpicks, I'd be happy to use this theme as-is, as long as the arrange/edit area is usable
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Old 03-23-2011, 12:26 PM   #27
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Looking great so far theme team!

One thing I found is the red mute buttons when enabled can be confusing during the record process. At a quick glance during recording, I thought some of my muted tracks were in record mode, thus causing a bit of initial panic of course. It might be best making them the standard orange, or some other color other than red.

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Old 03-23-2011, 12:51 PM   #28
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coupla things.

- on my 28 inch monitor, the mcp faders/meters are quite squashed n stubby in default view making them look like my overweight aunt millie sat on them.

- pan knob looks like an island in an ocean of potentially unused screen real estate.

- why do track numbers and track name/labels each have their own space, can't they be lovers and share the same bed?

- the location of i/o button for the master fader is inconsistent with that of channel faders.
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Old 03-23-2011, 01:31 PM   #29
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layouts for different colour buttons?
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Old 03-23-2011, 02:05 PM   #30
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my vote on the transport on-state: feels like the light/dark highlights are reversed, at least compared to the FX buttons. the actual colours look good though.

overall comments:

* great work, very slick theme. (edit after using it for a couple of minutes: VERY slick theme, i'm a fan of this).
* ok, thoughts on TCP alternate layouts:
* normal TCP layout is just very nice now, except for the lack of FX button in the smallest layout.
* the 'tracking' layout would be a perfect reduced layout if the 'input fx' button was a regular fx button. this really would be great. not sure if i'd miss the M/R/S display but i definitely miss the FX button more.
* 'alt-1' layout is a bit grubby.
* MCP: pan knobs feel a bit chunky still, otherwise very good. nice strong lines.
* items look pretty good.
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Old 03-23-2011, 02:17 PM   #31
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Default Hey! Drag handle on the drop shadow!

I'm loving the shadow effect on the TCP/Timeline separator! (Appears when dragged left). Gives the whole thing a bit more depth!

Overall though this is my favourite incarnation of theme so far, and for the first time ever feel like I'll probably be using the default theme as, well... my default theme!

And I LIKE the "blobby mcp rec_arm button". The "boot" shape draws the eye to where the re arm button is, and just gives REAPER a unique personality!

And the last thing it needs to do is be moved/stretched further right to align with the mute/solo buttons etc - I'm all for aligning to a grid, but this is a case where it's not necessary. Works better as it is I think, framing and off-setting the buttons nicely. I would look more claustrophobic if it was all perfectly aligned I think. This is especially true in the bigger version in the large layout I think.

I'm also REALLY liking the Big Meter and Narrow layouts on the MCP. Favourite thing about the very first R4 theme was the rounded bottom on the meters - glad to see it back here on the narrow layout!

Fader thumb could do with being a bit smaller in some layouts though. Looks a little 'squeezed' in n places...
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Old 03-23-2011, 02:17 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d. gauss View Post
- why do track numbers and track name/labels each have their own space, can't they be lovers and share the same bed?
NO!

I take it you don't use a controller

I hate that there is no track number to relate to on folder tracks in v.3. The track number always needs to be somewhere
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Old 03-23-2011, 02:38 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evan View Post
The media items in this theme I like, but I still don't understand: why do selected items = dark? Contrary to everything else in Reaper? Which also makes selected items look very close to muted items. I have modified a different theme to have selected items become brighter, and it works great.
Agreed. This is HUGELY important and needs addressing. I have no idea what the thinking behind this would be - for those of us that spend our days editing this is something that simply needs to be very clear.
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Old 03-23-2011, 02:39 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d. gauss View Post
- pan knob looks like an island in an ocean of potentially unused screen real estate.
But not every last nook and cranny needs to have something crammed in to it. It's just good to have 'breathing' room. And "White Space" (or rather green/blue space in this case!) is a feature of design that can aid visual organisation and clarity. As well as help things look more stylish

I'm generally a fan of Lamda's work, but his Rubik (https://stash.reaper.fm/theme/674/216%20Rubik.zip) theme suffers from a lack of 'space' I think - lots of things packed closely together, all nicely aligned but somehow just a little... chaotic! (in my opionion of course!). Things are just harder to find.

Quote:
- why do track numbers and track name/labels each have their own space, can't they be lovers and share the same bed?
A "No" from me as well! I like the clarity given by the vertical column of numbers the current track number location gives
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Old 03-23-2011, 02:42 PM   #35
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completely yes ...

What is it with the green/blue?

First thing I would do to this theme (after fixing the mcp_recarm) is turn everything grey

If the underlying theme is based around greys ... then adding colour to items, groups, track backgrounds etc ... actually works - things are easily visible.

With colourful themes, adding more colours as mentioned ^^ just turns it into a big visual mess.

{I know I'm being harsh ... it's because I like the theme overall}
I've been saying this for ages. This obsession with green is a bit bonkers. The apparent justification is that green is a 'restful' colour for the eyes. It is... in nature. There's a reason no other DAW or creative app uses green as a core colour...

I totally agree that sticking to greys/whites for the main interface elements is the way to go. Colours should be used to highlight important aspects of the UI as you suggest.
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Old 03-23-2011, 02:46 PM   #36
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I'm really not sure at all about the toolbar icons. The designs aren't as clear as I think they could be but mainly my gripe is that they should have a grey background, ie like the mute/solo buttons. So then with blacks/greys/colours on top. The black background to the icons is a bit, well, dark. I also think the other very dark aspects of the interface should go and be lightened. Too much contrast.
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Old 03-23-2011, 02:50 PM   #37
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Default Black send levels

The send levels are black on dark grey.

Maybe those should be green, too.
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Old 03-23-2011, 02:59 PM   #38
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So has it been decided that we're having pan pots over sliders on the default, then? I'm not a fan at all - it makes no sense to have something so tied to hardware on software. In this case, with panning, it makes total sense to be dragging left or right with a slider as, erm, this obviously corresponds with left and right! Rather than dragging up and down on pan pot to achieve the same thing without the intuitiveness; why would you want to do that?
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Old 03-23-2011, 03:19 PM   #39
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Quote:
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NO!

I take it you don't use a controller

I hate that there is no track number to relate to on folder tracks in v.3. The track number always needs to be somewhere
yes, i use 3 controllers.
my point is that the faders are really, really short in the default state, even on a 28 inch monitor! partly, because there's a giant, wide, strip being used for a 1 or two digit track ID number, and also a strip used for the track name. couldn't they sit next to each other, giving more vertical real estate for the fader/meter?
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Old 03-23-2011, 03:24 PM   #40
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Quote:
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But not every last nook and cranny needs to have something crammed in to it. It's just good to have 'breathing' room.
hey, i'm all for space (WT's gorgeous, unfinished imperial anyone?), but as i've mentioned, the faders/meters are getting squished here. i.e. no breathing at all, 'cause something is sitting on them.
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