That's just Billy's hands lol, as I understand it he just sounds like that, anywhere he goes, any setup you give him.
I love those kinds of sounds too, I have reasonable success getting them to my satisfaction, I dunno, at this point I feel like I can get any sound I want, close enough, out of Amplitube etc., and then I really love being able to reamp at will if it just doesn't quite work right later on. I've been messing with this stuff since the freakin Yamaha REX50, a truly nasty-sounding bit of gear, always seem to find a way to make whatever work, but... "reasonable success", "close enough", "make whatever work"... you, brainwreck, on the other hand, really seem to know pretty much exactly what you want and just will not accept compromise and I think that's awesome.
You might like the Helix then (or at least, like it more than others). It pretty much requires high and low cuts to get anything usable. Way more high frequencies in particular than I have ever heard out of a real cab. To that end, I wish it would sound more like a polished, final result, but it's easy enough to correct for.
When it came out, I spent a solid week with it and longer than that toying around with it. It definitely does provide a wider frequency spectrum than other amp sims, and I really liked that aspect of it. Out of any sim I have tried to date, it has been the most promising for that reason. But in the end, it had other issues that I couldn't get along with, and it still relies on impulses for cabs and algo reverb or impulse reverb for ambience. It could get quite a way toward pulling off a dry (no good room sound) gained up tweed bassman, where other sims can't approach that type of sound at all, much because of narrower frequency spectrum.
This is not a great recording (and not mine), but check out out the treble of this thing (a vintage tweed bassman): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lr9DbiS1Xss&t=2m22s That is where sims need to arrive, as square one. Everything else builds from there. If a sim could do that (without a bunch of audible artifacts and sounding plastic), it could do pretty much anything else.
I should also say here that I am not some vintage gear zealot. If I can get a satisfying experience from a 50 year old box of electronics or some code, I could care less. I want to see amp sims actually progress, where it seems that much to do with them is about salesmanship rather than advancement in the sound of them. Audio plugins are damn convenient, but trading off excellence in sound for convenience isn't a good trade. It would be great to have both.
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Last edited by brainwreck; 09-17-2018 at 11:22 PM.
I see some people commenting here about chasing other people's tone. You are greatly missing the point. It isn't about 'other people' at all. It is about sound. Period. Trying to make it about 'someone else' is evading the fundamental issue of sound.
In other words, you are off in another direction talking about people, playing, feelings, etc., where this discussion is about amps, speakers, rooms, and dsp simulations of those things. These are very different topics:
Sound qualities of gear and code.
People and their playing and how you feel about it.
Trying to mush them together as being one thing is illogical or dishonest.
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Last edited by brainwreck; 09-17-2018 at 11:11 PM.
I see some people commenting here about chasing other people's tone. You are greatly missing the point. It isn't about 'other people' at all. It is about sound. Period. Trying to make it about 'someone else' is evading the fundamental issue of sound.
In other words, you are off in another direction talking about people, playing, feelings, etc., where this discussion is about amps, speakers, rooms, and dsp simulations of those things. These are very different topics:
Sound qualities of gear and code.
People and their playing and how you feel about it.
Trying to mush them together as being one thing is illogical or dishonest.
I really don't agree with you. PEOPLE = SOUND. Amps are just a tools which help people express themselves. Good amp (or microphone etc) can still sound bad with bad player and vice versa, it is a fact. This is not a rocket science, to me it is all about music & feelings & expression, not frequency spectrum.
But nevertheless i am still interested to hear your theories in practice. I bet that if you are a good guitar player, your sound will be pretty good in any case ... but if you are not a good player, you are in trouble even with "the best" tube amp
They have been ACTUALLY progressing in the past 5-6 years greatly, and they still are.
According to my calculations and arithmetic average of statements in promotional materials, amp sims crossed singularity around 2012 and are now much more realistic that the tube amps themselves.
(I wonder how much of that "tone" from old albums people are longing for is due to the characteristics of recording quality)
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According to my calculations and arithmetic average of statements in promotional materials, amp sims crossed singularity around 2012 and are now much more realistic that the tube amps themselves.
(I wonder how much of that "tone" from old albums people are longing for is due to the characteristics of recording quality)
I've always thought that the microphone is where a lot of the character comes from. Even did an experiment once putting a Sennhieser MD421 on a tiny plastic and solid state Danelectro Honey Tone, to see what it would sound like.
It still didn't sound great, but the tone was much improved after going through the mic.
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I've always thought that the microphone is where a lot of the character comes from. Even did an experiment once putting a Sennhieser MD421 on a tiny plastic and solid state Danelectro Honey Tone, to see what it would sound like.
It still didn't sound great, but the tone was much improved after going through the mic.
Mic choice and placement definitely has a big effect on the sound. Which is why I prefer modelers
I wonder at what point companies will stop trying to emulate amps that already exist and start embracing the fact that they can do new, unique things that are not possible with real amps? I feel like we are already close enough that a lot of people (myself included) don't bother with expensive tube amps anymore. Why lug my Roadster to shows when I can strap a modeler to my back and take the bus? Anyway, I want to see where technology will take us when we allow ourselves to move away from what we've always known.
Mic choice and placement definitely has a big effect on the sound. Which is why I prefer modelers
I wonder at what point companies will stop trying to emulate amps that already exist and start embracing the fact that they can do new, unique things that are not possible with real amps? I feel like we are already close enough that a lot of people (myself included) don't bother with expensive tube amps anymore. Why lug my Roadster to shows when I can strap a modeler to my back and take the bus? Anyway, I want to see where technology will take us when we allow ourselves to move away from what we've always known.
Need to get rid of strings too, because they are always going out of tune or breaking. Just to peer into the extreme future of South Park's "real guitars are for old people".
Roy "Future Man" plays a modified Synth Axe for drums live, and it sounds great, so anything is possible.
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Glennbo
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Trying to mush them together as being one thing is illogical or dishonest.
Since tone is 100% subjective then all thoughts, including side discussions around achieving it are valid; I don't remember our comments having anything to do with any of your posts though.
__________________ Music is what feelings sound like.
Mic choice and placement definitely has a big effect on the sound. Which is why I prefer modelers
I wonder at what point companies will stop trying to emulate amps that already exist and start embracing the fact that they can do new, unique things that are not possible with real amps? I feel like we are already close enough that a lot of people (myself included) don't bother with expensive tube amps anymore. Why lug my Roadster to shows when I can strap a modeler to my back and take the bus? Anyway, I want to see where technology will take us when we allow ourselves to move away from what we've always known.
That's already the case, my amp sim pedal has originally designed models as well as ones modelled on existing amps.
Need to get rid of strings too, because they are always going out of tune or breaking. Just to peer into the extreme future of South Park's "real guitars are for old people".
Roy "Future Man" plays a modified Synth Axe for drums live, and it sounds great, so anything is possible.
Would you not see it as a good thing if they managed to model guitar strings?
Makes me wonder if there are people who are actually opposed to the concept of amp sims rather than just (or possibly as well as) thinking they don't sound good.
Why lug my Roadster to shows when I can strap a modeler to my back and take the bus?
If you are taking it on a bus, I'd agree LOL and/or if it works, then use, use, use what works. As far as sims when recording... for me personally, right tool, right job, I couldn't care less provided what I use gets whatever I feel gets the song's meaning across, it's that simple and I'd be happy plugging a $5 guitar into a $5 amp using two cups and a string if that worked for the tune.
Conversely, I hate full stack sims live. I've never had a good experience and it is all to do with how it feels under my fingers and a few other things in a live or rehearsal situation - That could change but for now, not for me live. For anyone it works for though, I think is awesome.
There is one exception but it's not a full amp stack... I just picked up a Strymon Sunset OD a few weeks back, which is a digital sim of an overdrive. So far (and unexpectedly) it's possibly one of the best sounding ODs I've ever used - and I design and build analog ODs as a side-gig. Furthermore, I did a gig a couple weeks back which I used it on (running into a Fender '68 Deluxe Reverb), there was another band on the bill and the guitar player wanted to use my rig so he didn't have to set his up. After the show, he pointed to the Strymon and said "I don't know what that is but that red pedal there kicks ass" - He's much of an analog non-digital freak so that's saying something for him to play through it for an hour, love it and never know it was a digital distortion pedal.
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Last edited by karbomusic; 09-18-2018 at 08:37 AM.
Would you not see it as a good thing if they managed to model guitar strings?
Makes me wonder if there are people who are actually opposed to the concept of amp sims rather than just (or possibly as well as) thinking they don't sound good.
I used to have a real cheep midi guitar that had raised semi-hard rubber lines down the neck, and separate 6" long suspended string like things to pick and strum on, and it played MUCH better than I would have ever imagined, so no, I have nothing against it as they perfect it.
Alan Holdsworth played some amazing stuff on a Synth Axe. No real strings on those.
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The Kuassa Caliburn is by far the best Marshall amp sim i have played. Paired with the right guitar you can get some kick-ass tones out of it - yes, even Billy Gibbons type tones; was playing "Just Got Paid" and "Nasty Dogs and Funky Kings" the other day with it!. It has restored my faith in amp sims.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon
The new Kuassa Caliburn does nail the three Marshalls (JTM45, JCM800, JCM900) really well IMO (Mercuriall Spark does too, albeit except JCM800 it does 3 other Marshalls), but at a higher CPU cost). And it's dead simple to use, too.
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FIFY. His brother Vic (bassist) is a mate from waaay back in my Nashville days. Saw Roy doing his drumsuit thang in the very early stages. Amazing.
Very cool! Vic is one of my favorite bassists. His brother Roy doesn't try to fully replicate the sound of a set of drums with his SynthAxe Drumitar, but paints with a larger palette of real and surreal timbres.
Someone mentioned that virtual amp technology should break out of the mold of trying to replicate a real amp and speakers, which might actually be a cool leap.
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Agreed - I have never been completely satisfied with amp sims. I have a Kemper (toaster version) and yes, I'm happy with it
Here's an interesting part of an old interview with Christoph Kemper - https://www.guitar-muse.com/kemper-p...-amp-2949-2949: Q: Can you talk about what’s under the hood (processors, speeds, sampling rate, A/D conversion etc)?
A: The main DSP is a Freescale DSP (formerly Motorola) running at an
equivalent of 400 MHz speed. The code consists of tens of thousands of
lines of pure assembler code. The global sampling rate is 44.1 kHz (up to 96 kHz nowadays afaik),
while the internal sampling rate is partially much higher. The algorithm
for the tube simulation runs on more than 700 kHz sampling rate (!).
Well, he's a very accomplished jazz drummer, so . . .
I guess another facet of all this virtual stuff is whether any of it it actually sounds good or not, but then that gets into the, who gets to be the judge of whether it sounds good or not?
I just go with the philosophy that if you can hit it, strum it, or pick it, and it makes a reciprocating sound, then it's fair game for making music.
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Well, he's a very accomplished jazz drummer, so . . .
I guess another facet of all this virtual stuff is whether any of it it actually sounds good or not, but then that gets into the, who gets to be the judge of whether it sounds good or not?
I just go with the philosophy that if you can hit it, strum it, or pick it, and it makes a reciprocating sound, then it's fair game for making music.
A few years ago there was a traveling group that did an entire show banging trashcan lids. I think it was called "Stomp" or something. This show traveled all around the globe with a fair measure of success. So at the end of the day I guess you can make music with virtually anything if you put your mind to it. It's not about the tool, it's what you do with it.
Back to the original topic, I've found that the noise from ampsims can be extremely problematic, especially in a live situation. I recently found this: http://pvamps.blogspot.com - scroll down to May 28 and try the Noise Suppression. Very transparent and effective. While you're at it I would check out the Cab Driver directly underneath it; it helps simulate the interaction between power amp and cab.
I haven't had the opportunity to try either Axe FX, of Kemper, but I know great tone when I hear it. I have both Bias Amp 2(has never worked right), and S-Gear, along with Mercuriall Spark and Reaxis. S-Gear is pretty good at what it does, but for all out metal tones, Mecuriall Reaxis really shines, I don't even hear the need to search for additional IR's.
Bias is just shit code. Their whole GUI is a webpage (no shitting you), the whole UI is too much touch-centric which makes it uncomfortable for desktop use, it's just not a product which I think justifies the asking price.
Bias is just shit code. Their whole GUI is a webpage (no shitting you), the whole UI is too much touch-centric which makes it uncomfortable for desktop use, it's just not a product which I think justifies the asking price.
I'll give you that. The GUI is wonky. I think it sounds good tho. I use an external controller for it so the web interface doesn't get in the way. And it is expensive. It is also a bit of a cpu hog. Dam am I talking myself out of it? lol. I get some sounds tho.
I wonder if they are using something like Electron, which is damn cool outside of using it for Audio. That whole "bring your web app skills to native cross-plat desktop apps" is the new sexy hotness.
__________________ Music is what feelings sound like.
Last edited by karbomusic; 09-25-2018 at 08:16 AM.
Bias is just shit code. Their whole GUI is a webpage (no shitting you), the whole UI is too much touch-centric which makes it uncomfortable for desktop use, it's just not a product which I think justifies the asking price.
Bias is just shit code. Their whole GUI is a webpage (no shitting you), the whole UI is too much touch-centric which makes it uncomfortable for desktop use, it's just not a product which I think justifies the asking price.
I agree on the GUI and the price, but it does sound good and it is easy to find a good sound.
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