Old 06-03-2021, 07:44 AM   #1
TLoubet
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Quick question:
I use a 2TB external hard drive to save all my reaper files, rather than clog up the internal drive on my Mac laptop. But that means all of my projects are saved on an inherently delicate medium. How do you deal with this? Backup the existing external drive to another one? The cloud? I have a dropbox account, but as you know, the Reaper file space can add up in a hurry with false takes, etc...
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Old 06-03-2021, 07:58 AM   #2
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Check out Backblaze.
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Old 06-03-2021, 08:08 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by TLoubet View Post
Quick question:
I use a 2TB external hard drive to save all my reaper files, rather than clog up the internal drive on my Mac laptop. But that means all of my projects are saved on an inherently delicate medium. How do you deal with this? Backup the existing external drive to another one? The cloud? I have a dropbox account, but as you know, the Reaper file space can add up in a hurry with false takes, etc...
Thanks
If you can do it: all of them.

The minimum should be copying them onto another or two other harddrives. Best is to use multiple harddrives of different manufacturers, as some productionlines may produce harddrives with a higher failure rate, some may not.
Then, store one or more of them at home of some trustworthy person, means, someone who doesn't blow up harddrives for entertainment(parents or such). So if your house/studio burns down, you still have the projects at a safe place.
Cloud is also a good idea in addition to that.

Basically, the most important projects(or even all) should be backupped multiple times, so if most of the drives fail/clouds fail, you still have a copy somewhere.
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Old 06-03-2021, 08:11 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by TLoubet View Post
Quick question:
I use a 2TB external hard drive to save all my reaper files, rather than clog up the internal drive on my Mac laptop. But that means all of my projects are saved on an inherently delicate medium. How do you deal with this? Backup the existing external drive to another one? The cloud? I have a dropbox account, but as you know, the Reaper file space can add up in a hurry with false takes, etc...
Thanks
The size drive you want to keep for your internal drive is up to you. You can get at least a 2TB SSD nowadays. Going to pairs of externals for a data archive is a fine thing. Just always setup hard drives at least in pairs at minimum. Primary:backup.

A 2TB USB drive would be a fine backup for your internal drive.
Additional external storage should be in pairs at minimum. Most people consider 3 copies to be minimum. Keep one off site.
Two is still reasonable if you're on top of it IMHO. Some will strongly disagree.

If you're really keeping only one copy of some of your stuff, you could just delete it all right now so you wouldn't have that anticipated drive failure gnawing at the back of your mind. But you probably want to keep it, right?

Then use a cloning app for backups. Curate your files as you do. Backup the whole drive 1:1. Don't do manual one by one copies and rely on your memory. Use the 'safety net' feature of the cloning app that keeps deleted files in an archive folder as free space allows.

Cloning your system drive means you have an exact copy of your OS install and all your app installations and setup that boots your machine. You want this. It would be foolish not to do, right?
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Old 06-03-2021, 08:22 AM   #5
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Cloning your system drive means you have an exact copy of your OS install and all your app installations and setup that boots your machine. You want this. It would be foolish not to do, right?
I used to think so, but typically the only time I need to use those clones is when my computer dies and I have to replace it with a new one, and because at that point it's a different computer with updated hardware, restoring from the clone can cause more problems than it solves. So I don't bother cloning my OS or even my preferences and just focus on cloning my files. I keep most files in Dropbox (including Reaper configuration zips) so everything's in the cloud and I don't have to worry about backups. I keep my Reaper projects on an external drive that is automatically backed up via Time Machine (on a Mac) to a backup external drive.

Periodically when I'm working on a project I'll export stems and store those in Dropbox so I have files I can use to rebuild a project from scratch if the house burns down or both my drive and backup drive fail. For important projects I would save the entire project folder in the cloud.

Amazon Glacier is a cheap option for large long-term storage that you rarely if ever need to access. Especially good for things like video where you need terabytes rather than gigabytes. My video RAID only has 9 terabytes capacity and I can fill that up pretty quickly with video projects.
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Old 06-03-2021, 08:38 AM   #6
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Hmmm...

I want to suggest that a scenario of replacing computer hardware more often than storage hardware is less common.

I still think it would be foolish to not keep a running copy of my OS disks as well as a master disk image file. It's just convenient insurance for any R&D (we'll call it). Make sure your backup is current before experimenting with any suspicious install. Booting from your backup drive and cloning back the other direction is a quicker reset than looking up how to uninstall or potentially worse things.

Building a system with various installs is work. You kind of want to save that work. That's all. I would tend to build a new OS install if I had a new hardware system too, mind you.
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Old 06-03-2021, 08:53 AM   #7
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But that means all of my projects are saved on an inherently delicate medium.
I've been using the same 1 TB Seagate USB SSD for backups for over 5 years now.

I make a System Image of the OS drive about once every six months, then make copies of the folders on the root of my data drive about once every week or so, depending on how much work I do.

I then put the external drive back in it's original packaging and leave it in a desk drawer.

Note: I don't accumulate backups, I delete the old ones before creating the new ones.
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Old 06-03-2021, 08:58 AM   #8
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Hmmm...

I want to suggest that a scenario of replacing computer hardware more often than storage hardware is less common.
Definitely true with Windows and Linux, not so much for Mac because it's either too hard, impossible, or too expensive to replace a dead SSD that's built into a Mac. I replace hard disks on Windows and Linux machines routinely, but when my Mac discs fail (typically after 8-9 years) it's simpler to just get a new machine. I record on a Windows laptop but do all the rest of my audio work on Mac.
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Old 06-03-2021, 09:09 AM   #9
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Definitely true with Windows and Linux, not so much for Mac because it's either too hard, impossible, or too expensive to replace a dead SSD that's built into a Mac. I replace hard disks on Windows and Linux machines routinely, but when my Mac discs fail (typically after 8-9 years) it's simpler to just get a new machine. I record on a Windows laptop but do all the rest of my audio work on Mac.
I have the Mac Pro with all the hard drive bays. It's made to be easy to shuffle around and mod. The iMacs not so much. My Macbook Pro is easy to upgrade drives in too. Now, the post-Jobs machines with the SSDs soldered in and all that is a different story! I just don't consider this garbage to be genuine Apple anymore. But OSX is still working and everything is convenient so I'm dragging my feet with jumping ship to Linux! It's coming though!

Heh, replacing a whole computer for just a hard drive issue would have been the most un-Apple like think imaginable in the Jobs era! Holy shit! But yeah, they've gone full Microsoft and beyond with the disposable thing now.
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Old 06-03-2021, 09:19 AM   #10
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I used to think so, but typically the only time I need to use those clones is when my computer dies and I have to replace it with a new one, and because at that point it's a different computer with updated hardware, restoring from the clone can cause more problems than it solves. So I don't bother cloning my OS or even my preferences and just focus on cloning my files. I keep most files in Dropbox (including Reaper configuration zips) so everything's in the cloud and I don't have to worry about backups. I keep my Reaper projects on an external drive that is automatically backed up via Time Machine (on a Mac) to a backup external drive.

Periodically when I'm working on a project I'll export stems and store those in Dropbox so I have files I can use to rebuild a project from scratch if the house burns down or both my drive and backup drive fail. For important projects I would save the entire project folder in the cloud.

Amazon Glacier is a cheap option for large long-term storage that you rarely if ever need to access. Especially good for things like video where you need terabytes rather than gigabytes. My video RAID only has 9 terabytes capacity and I can fill that up pretty quickly with video projects.
That makes a lot of sense to me. I know it'll be hard for hardcore users to imagine, but I can't even remember the last time I made any custom changes to my OS. That's definitely not my focus, compared to my audio files.
I also don't trust myself to backup manually.
Dropbox would work fine, except I don't want to save all my reaper files in my local dropbox folder (since they go directly to my external drive, again, to save space on my internal drive), and Dropbox seems to have killed support for symlinks. Does anyone know a slick work-around to just automatically sync reaper projects to dropbox without using the dropbox folder?
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Old 06-03-2021, 09:27 AM   #11
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How do you deal with this?
Using a NAS for storing and another one for backup. Automatic nightly backup. Mirrored disks in both.

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Old 06-03-2021, 09:50 AM   #12
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For Data:
I run a program called FreeFile Sync which allows you to backup and synchronize folder pairs. I make a backup of media folder to a local connected USB HDD and to a USB HDD which I have connected to my router. The backups to the network HDD takes longer, but I usually just run it prior to going to bed at night and let it do it's thing while I'm sleeping. A nice thing about FreeFile sync is that you can create multiple folder pairs to sync and select to run an individual folder pair for a quick backup of the data, or select multiple and have them sync away one after the other.

FreeFile sync can be setup to backup manually, or configured in the settings to auto backup in intervals.
https://freefilesync.org/

For my OS and program install C: Drive, I use Macrium Reflect to create HDD image backups where I turned on the option within Macrium to create a Macrium WinPE boot option. I would always misplace or confuse my bootable USB sticks in the past when I needed to boot to a USB stick to restore. Essentially now it acts like a dual boot system, where on startup it default to boot to Windows, and I have it set to a 5 second count down timer which allows me during that 5 second count down to boot directly into Macrium instead where I can then image any of my HDDs where I place image backups on a USB HDD. I then use FreeFile sync to occasionally backup those image files to another USB HDD.

So I essentially I have 2 backup copies of whatever I feel is important to me.

Last edited by Rednroll; 06-03-2021 at 09:55 AM.
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Old 06-03-2021, 10:11 AM   #13
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Check out Backblaze.
That looks promising. The more I look into DBox, the more it seems like it won't work.

Do you use Backblaze B2, or the regular subscription backup?
Do you have it set to sync, or do it manually?
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Old 06-03-2021, 10:16 AM   #14
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NAS if you‘re dealing with clients or just want to be as safe as possible.
My Studio NAS mirrors itself to my home NAS and both backup overnight to a server in Frankfurt, Germany.
It‘s also great for running a private cloud for client up- and downloads.
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Old 06-03-2021, 11:03 AM   #15
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The cloud services are hideously expensive if you have any amount of data!
I think Mega are still the good guys here. 2TB is $120/year. 16TB would be $360/year ($1/day) and their published prices stop there.

Backblaze wanted $100/year for 1TB. I typed 16TB into their calculator and they said $1000! The disaster that is Google Drive looks to be the same price for a 2TB plan.

My next evolution is going to be building a NAS. I think I'm going to try to get another engineer friend to do the same and then we can be each other's offsite backup. You can buy an awful lot of hard drive space for $1000! And it will last more than a year!! Local drives in the tower and USB backup volumes has been the most bang for the buck so far though.

I use the free Mega 50GB account to share work in progress with clients.
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Old 06-07-2021, 09:52 AM   #16
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Default backup

Yeah, I'm surprised this is as difficult as I'm finding it to be. I would think it would be an obvious issue for most users.

Dropbox has confirmed there's no way to backup folders not included on the DB folder on the internal hard drive, which I want to avoid so I don't fill up my internal drive with audio files.

Backblaze only mirrors the entire machine. It will include an external drive, but I really want a Dbox kind of functionality, where I can easily access specific files in my Reaper folder online--I don't want to have to do a full system recovery just to access these files

Any other options?
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Old 06-07-2021, 10:13 AM   #17
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I guess I could break down and buy a NAS.
It just seems crazy to me that the best option in 2021 is still a big hot ugly piece of hardware in my apartment, rather than using the cloud.
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Old 06-08-2021, 06:45 AM   #18
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I'm with @serr on this.
The number,type, locations and method should be in line with how much a total loss of any part is undesireable.
For home use I use two backup drives, one for data, one for OS and whole drive, plus important "docs" etc on cloud locations. Backup regime is full copies and differential periodically and less frequent new full backups. These only affect personal things but as more and more is electronic some of those are quite important or of sentimental value.
I have had a disc failure and a corruption and recovery was quick. Some do not bother with OS as it is easy to reinstall but that along with all apps and settings, without backups, can take quite a while...and it can happen at the worst time!

For professional use that regime is no where near enough and daily(or more frequent background backups) alternately to two or more full raid arrays plus full/incremental backups weekly I would consider a minumum (as well as differing locations etc.) It should really all be down to a risk assessment, the impact of any loss and it's likelyhood.

Also it is an excellent idea to actually try to do the backup. All very well making a backup but absolutely of no use if recovery fails!!
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Old 06-08-2021, 09:04 AM   #19
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Also it is an excellent idea to actually try to do the backup. All very well making a backup but absolutely of no use if recovery fails!!
Excellent point and probably the most overlooked aspect of disaster recovery. Regardless of what your backup/recovery plan might be, at some point, you have to test it. Always a scary proposition, but even worse is finding out your backup doesn't work when you really need it.

Keeping things simple is the best way to insure your backup is going to work when you need it.

Your data is the most important part of your backup. OS and programs can be re-installed, but once you lose data, it's gone. At the very least, organizing your data in a way where you can copy and paste a handful of root folders to an external device of some type is a simple and effective way of protecting your data.

The other thing to consider is what would a total loss of your system cost you in real dollars? If you do this for a living, then you need to spend an appropriate amount to come up with a plan that will minimize that loss. If you're a hobbyist like myself, the loss of everything would suck, but it's not really going to cost me anything but some time.
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Old 06-08-2021, 09:05 AM   #20
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"Three copies or it doesn't exist".
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Old 06-09-2021, 06:31 AM   #21
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"Three copies or it doesn't exist".
Was just going to type this

You can't have too many backup or archival drives. Whatever suits one, a drive toaster with a stack of bare drives or a stack of externals. Just do it, and use a drive cataloger to easily find any project or file.

I used to take the sum of my free clouds (of which I probably had every one that existed, including six free Google accounts) and used a cloud manager to use them as one. Eventually broke down and settled on Microsoft's OneDrive. 1T was $120 yr. Been fine. I have synced folders but I don't do a BackBlaze type backup. Just use Time Machine for that and clone periodically. I use Carbon Copy Cloner, which is great, but I'm too simpleminded to set up an automated routine, which is awesome if you have the patience to do it. Most of the time I manually throw the files/projects into two running work backup drives and OneDrive, and usually at breaks and end of day put work in progress on the thumb drive on my keychain, which used to be a whopping 8 gig and now is 128 gig.

The literal wording of my tech mentor in the day was "If it's digital and doesn't exist in three places, it doesn't exist anywhere at all"..
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Old 06-09-2021, 06:50 AM   #22
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1. Use sector cloning of the OS drive only. This is to allow a full restore of an OS if the system drive dies.

2. Use file/folder backup/copy for data such as documents, reaper projects and data, whathaveyou.

#2 is a safety measure, if 1000s of reaper or other important files are compressed into some format, proprietary or not, it only takes a couple corrupt bits of that single file and you lose ALL those thousands of data files contained within. With file/folder copies, this is not an issue, a file here or there could become corrupted but you don't lose everything like you can with a corrupt container file. This is also more convenient, you just access the files you need directly if you need them instead of accessing some backup software to open or clone the containerized backup.
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Old 06-10-2021, 01:39 PM   #23
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That looks promising. The more I look into DBox, the more it seems like it won't work.

Do you use Backblaze B2, or the regular subscription backup?
Do you have it set to sync, or do it manually?
T
I've been using it for a year. Regular. You can set it up to back up automatically. Once set up, you don't have to do anything. It backs up continuously. You can also start/stop backups if you are not always connected to the internet.

It has been a life saver a couple of times!
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