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Old 08-17-2019, 02:48 AM   #4081
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Originally Posted by Freex View Post
Here's my MCU.zon file

Pressing the
Send button on the MCU
should display sends for the selected track on the track faders (send 1 fader 1, send 8 fader 8)

Track should display the names of plugins for selected track,
By defining the params in an FX zone you can have them splay across the MCU when you press on the corresponding pan button.
Woohoo, working send automation recording!

Next up Klinke style folder diving, how to I write that in (does it go in the zone?)
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Old 08-17-2019, 03:04 AM   #4082
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Just thinking with the GoZone and function keys, you could get a lot out of very little realestate.
Imagine 3 knobs with push function you could have them initially set as freq, gain and q for low band, then have function keys changing type (bell, cut, notch etc) and dB grad etc. Then have the GoZone to "scroll" thru the different bandwidths.
ALL IN 3 KNOBS AND 2 BUTTONS plus function keys.
Potentially controlling up to 60 rotary and 60 push functions.

Not to mention the possibility of having more than 4 GoZone's and combofunctions (Control+Shift, etc)
Yup

Thanks, that was the number one goal, to come up with an extremely flexible architecture that could be stated in simple, human-readable, text files - as opposed to xml, etc.
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Old 08-17-2019, 03:08 AM   #4083
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Originally Posted by rothchild View Post
Woohoo, working send automation recording!

Next up Klinke style folder diving, how to I write that in (does it go in the zone?)
Cool.

Folders are not implemented yet.

We want to do Groups, Folders, and VCA's together -- we already have busses - aka Sends.

It all has to work together, intuitively and seamlessly, so we are taking time to discuss before implementing, please share any thoughts on your "Cadillac solution" for Groups, Folders, and VCA's.
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Old 08-17-2019, 03:18 AM   #4084
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Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Yup

Thanks, that was the number one goal, to come up with an extremely flexible architecture that could be stated in simple, human-readable, text files - as opposed to xml, etc.

Unfortunately the Configurator is a little "clunky" for these atm,


FUTURE:
Thinking ahead to expand the universe (from just the C4) what if you could decide your number or rows and columns, and have pages revealed/activated by a check box.
So you have Main, With a check box to activate Function key subzones for that main.
Another check box for Zone-pt2 again as above for subs.
and so on.

It does begin to become a fully blown program just in itself, but very very powerful.


The reason I'm think Functions should come before "Zone-pt2" is simply because the definitions will exist within that "Zone".
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Old 08-17-2019, 03:29 AM   #4085
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Originally Posted by Freex View Post
Just thinking with the GoZone and function keys, you could get a lot out of very little realestate.
Imagine 3 knobs with push function you could have them initially set as freq, gain and q for low band, then have function keys changing type (bell, cut, notch etc) and dB grad etc. Then have the GoZone to "scroll" thru the different bandwidths.
ALL IN 3 KNOBS AND 2 BUTTONS plus function keys.
Potentially controlling up to 60 rotary and 60 push functions.

Not to mention the possibility of having more than 4 GoZone's and combofunctions (Control+Shift, etc)
Hope you’ve got a good memory
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Old 08-17-2019, 03:43 AM   #4086
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Hope you’ve got a good memory
Yeah, you could be there for a while lol, but if you only had a handful of knobs you could do a lot, needs must and all that.

What surprised me about the function keys, was that the display changed when i pressed each one, to reflect the new FxParamName.

So at least you wouldn't be completely in the dark IF you have a display.

For something like the Nano it could be a mind field no matter what.

Last edited by Freex; 08-17-2019 at 04:05 AM.
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Old 08-17-2019, 06:07 AM   #4087
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Cool.

Folders are not implemented yet.

We want to do Groups, Folders, and VCA's together -- we already have busses - aka Sends.

It all has to work together, intuitively and seamlessly, so we are taking time to discuss before implementing, please share any thoughts on your "Cadillac solution" for Groups, Folders, and VCA's.
Klinke works well for me in this regard (well, folders at least). I like the press and hold select to dive in to the folder (and global to page back up) I also like that it holds the folder to the left and shows the subs to the right of that.

I could imagine a variation of this for VCAs and Busses too (possibly even groups, although I'm not a big groups user) so pressing and holding a VCA shows all the tracks under the control of that VCA and similarly with Busses (i.e. press and hold on a buss dives to the buss and all the tracks it receives from laid out L to R) Perhaps it could also be 'reverse accessible' insofar as if you hold a modifier and hold select on a track it shows you all the busses it's sending to?
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Old 08-17-2019, 08:16 AM   #4088
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New Configurator Now able to load FX.zon files it has created and save them back to the same location. It will also create the headers for four zones if needed.

It now saves the FX parameter data in the .zon file, meaning after you have created the Zone you no longer need the raw FX file to edit and re-save the FX.zon file.
I haven't tried this one yet but I read one of the comments that it won't load any zon files you have directly modified. I always have to modify them to add special characters like "-" etc in order to add separators in my c4 params, makes it easier to view everything when multiple fx are displayed at once.

So....is there any way to let us add special characters without breaking the cells? I personally like the minus sign, it's a good separator, but open to any other suggestions if it's possible. Otherwise I'm happy to continue how I'm doing now, just a thought.
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Old 08-17-2019, 08:22 AM   #4089
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Originally Posted by rothchild View Post
Klinke works well for me in this regard (well, folders at least). I like the press and hold select to dive in to the folder (and global to page back up) I also like that it holds the folder to the left and shows the subs to the right of that.

I could imagine a variation of this for VCAs and Busses too (possibly even groups, although I'm not a big groups user) so pressing and holding a VCA shows all the tracks under the control of that VCA and similarly with Busses (i.e. press and hold on a buss dives to the buss and all the tracks it receives from laid out L to R) Perhaps it could also be 'reverse accessible' insofar as if you hold a modifier and hold select on a track it shows you all the busses it's sending to?
You could get by using a mock folder mode, there is an action for the mixer: toggle child tracks for selected tracks, something like that. Assign it to a button, select a folder track and use that toggle. it's not as elegant as the press/hold, but if you can find a good "spot" for your button it can be functional. Toggle all your folder tracks then you can go through them one by one as you need to, and free up channels on the surface.
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Old 08-17-2019, 08:26 AM   #4090
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Just thinking with the GoZone and function keys, you could get a lot out of very little realestate.
Imagine 3 knobs with push function you could have them initially set as freq, gain and q for low band, then have function keys changing type (bell, cut, notch etc) and dB grad etc. Then have the GoZone to "scroll" thru the different bandwidths.
ALL IN 3 KNOBS AND 2 BUTTONS plus function keys.
Potentially controlling up to 60 rotary and 60 push functions.

Not to mention the possibility of having more than 4 GoZone's and combofunctions (Control+Shift, etc)
this is what I love about CSI, there are so many possibilities that there's a solution for everyone. and what's better are all the great ideas coming out, thank you all for the ideas, I've been using many of them to help build a workflow for myself and it's awesome.
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Old 08-17-2019, 09:25 AM   #4091
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I haven't tried this one yet but I read one of the comments that it won't load any zon files you have directly modified. I always have to modify them to add special characters like "-" etc in order to add separators in my c4 params, makes it easier to view everything when multiple fx are displayed at once.

So....is there any way to let us add special characters without breaking the cells? I personally like the minus sign, it's a good separator, but open to any other suggestions if it's possible. Otherwise I'm happy to continue how I'm doing now, just a thought.
The minus is ok now, I changed the Configurator separator to the tilde symbol (~)
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Old 08-17-2019, 09:29 AM   #4092
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I was testing Shift/Option/Control and GoZone with the big toys, aka, Fabfilter Q3

Built for Freq 1, 2 and 3 (It was long & painful, so only did 2 freq bands)EDIT I added a 3rd just for fun with all the possible params on just 3 push/knobs
Shift/Option/Control BankL and BankR buttons.

Here's my thinking on the Zones now that The Function Buttons work,
GoZone will be great for the big picture when using, multi FX and instrument plugins,

But for the likes of EQ the function buttons seem, to me, to be a more "compact solution"
For example you could have 4x3 used on the C4, with all the little extras on the Function keys, then have zones set up to either jump to the next four or give you a "perceived scroll effect" by each subzone moving one band to the right.

Not sure if the files will attach but if they do just remove the ".txt" on the end

If anyone with a C4 and Fab-Q3 wants to see all the bells and whistles working. (albeit only on 3 bands of the possible 24 lol)

PS. you need all 3 files for it to work. Each file is a band.

Last edited by Freex; 09-01-2019 at 04:23 PM.
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Old 08-18-2019, 02:32 AM   #4093
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Hey, MixMonkey what's with all the /********** ?

It's made the files rather ugly looking. IMHO.
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Old 08-18-2019, 04:26 AM   #4094
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Hey, MixMonkey what's with all the /********** ?

It's made the files rather ugly looking. IMHO.
Yeah, know what you mean. I'll get rid.
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Old 08-18-2019, 05:32 AM   #4095
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Just had a thought about config option settings.

For instance Page has:
Code:
    Use Track Colouring
    Synch Pages
and Surface has:
Code:
    Synch Zones Across Surfaces
Every time we decide to change these things, Cross-platform UI must be modified.

Also, consider the new user, these clutter up the process of getting them up and running.

Suggest that Page has only:
Code:
    Name
    Follow MCP visibility
    Follow TCP visibility
and Surface has only:
Code:
    Name
    Midi In
    Midi Out
    .mst file
    .zon folder
In other words the bare minimum to get up and running smoothly and quickly.

Ok, what to do about the config options ?

What else, let's put 'em in a Zone.

Thinking something like:
Code:
SurfaceConfigZone surfaceName
    SynchZonesAcrossSurfaces = false
SurfaceConfigZone End

PageConfigZone pageName
    UseTrackColouring = true
    SynchPages = true
PageConfigZone End
Anyone got a better way, don't be shy -- speak up.

These files will have a fairly stable form, so a spreadsheet to make it easy to tune them should be trivial to do.

What do you think folks ?
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Old 08-18-2019, 05:37 AM   #4096
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Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Just had a thought about config option settings.
Sounds good to me. Put all the fancy stuff in the Zone.

Anything that keeps the cross-platform dragon in its cave is fine by me
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Old 08-18-2019, 07:31 AM   #4097
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I'v been playing with the SyncZoneAcrossSurfaces this last while and find the tick box pretty handy, Would the info be stored in the .mst or where?

At the minute I have a MCU_A and C4_B that are my stable working no issues go to setup , but I have a MCU_B and C4_C that are my play around with stuff.

(Yes you'd think I'd have the same letter after them, but It's because C4 zone in CSI folder is C4_A and not just C4, so in order to simply drag and drop new versions without overwriting mine, that's what i gotta do.)(So it's all your fault Geoff)

Would the files be stored in one of those, so that setting changes would only affect one or the other?

Last edited by Freex; 08-18-2019 at 07:39 AM.
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Old 08-18-2019, 07:58 AM   #4098
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I'v been playing with the SyncZoneAcrossSurfaces this last while and find the tick box pretty handy, Would the info be stored in the .mst or where?

At the minute I have a MCU_A and C4_B that are my stable working no issues go to setup , but I have a MCU_B and C4_C that are my play around with stuff.

(Yes you'd think I'd have the same letter after them, but It's because C4 zone in CSI folder is C4_A and not just C4, so in order to simply drag and drop new versions without overwriting mine, that's what i gotta do.)(So it's all your fault Geoff)
Yeah, don't remember why we did that, it is now renamed to C4 so it is consistent with the others.

That is a breaking change, so it will be in the OSC / ConfigZone build, a bit down the road, but be ready for it

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Would the files be stored in one of those, so that setting changes would only affect one or the other?
Hmmm... maybe all the PageConfigZones could be stored in a subfolder a la:

Code:
CSI/Zones/PageConfig
Also realized Surface Configs need a Page Context, so maybe something more like:

Code:
PageConfigZone pageName
    UseTrackColouring = true
    SynchPages = true

    SurfaceConfigZone firstSurfaceName
        SynchZonesAcrossSurfaces = false
    SurfaceConfigZone End

    SurfaceConfigZone secondSurfaceName
        SynchZonesAcrossSurfaces = false
    SurfaceConfigZone End
PageConfigZone End
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Old 08-18-2019, 09:32 AM   #4099
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So would that mean sync settings would be on a per page basis?

How do you switch between pages? It's not something I've taken advantage of yet.
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Old 08-18-2019, 10:50 AM   #4100
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How do you switch between pages? It's not something I've taken advantage of yet.
NextPage, GoPage.
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Old 08-18-2019, 12:40 PM   #4101
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Arrghhh, my bad

Looking at implementing the ConfigZone thing raises a big issue -- you now have unwanted coupling between the ConfigZones and the CSI.ini files, things can get out of whack -- belay that order cap'n, we'll stick with what we've got
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Old 08-18-2019, 04:05 PM   #4102
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Hey MixMonkey,

I was thinking about the Configurator and the Function keys,

Would it be possible to add extra pages (excel sheets), for Shift, Option, Control & Alt and have them all write into the same file?

Or can you think of a better way?

Last edited by Freex; 08-19-2019 at 01:14 AM.
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Old 08-19-2019, 05:36 AM   #4103
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Arrghhh, my bad

Looking at implementing the ConfigZone thing raises a big issue -- you now have unwanted coupling between the ConfigZones and the CSI.ini files, things can get out of whack -- belay that order cap'n, we'll stick with what we've got
Just a thought, if the intention is to keep the CSI prefs as displayed in Reaper as simple and user friendly as possible, as well as avoiding cross-platform issues, why not just leave the more esoteric settings out of the GUI and only inlude them in the .ini?
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Old 08-19-2019, 05:39 AM   #4104
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Hey MixMonkey,

I was thinking about the Configurator and the Function keys,

Would it be possible to add extra pages (excel sheets), for Shift, Option, Control & Alt and have them all write into the same file?

Or can you think of a better way?
It's certainly possible, but there are some other issues I need to address first

Is your preffered method for modifier keys to have each (and their combinations) in a separate zone?
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Old 08-19-2019, 05:57 AM   #4105
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It's certainly possible, but there are some other issues I need to address first

Is your preffered method for modifier keys to have each (and their combinations) in a separate zone?
I could only get the modifiers to work as part of the "main" plugin zone.

it's Identical to the main zone but with a prefix,

so,
DisplayUpperA1 NoAction
DisplayLowerA1 NoAction
RotaryA1 NoAction
Toggle+RotaryPushA1 NoAction

becomes

Shift+DisplayUpperA1 NoAction
Shift+DisplayLowerA1 NoAction
Shift+RotaryA1 NoAction
Shift+Toggle+RotaryPushA1 NoAction

for the shift function,

I think personally having the each function all together would be easier to read than all A1 then A2.....

In the Fabfilter Q3 I tested, I clubed them in A1, A2 rather than all the different functions together,(as it was a little faster using the configerator (then manually editing a little) and I thought it looked a little hard on the eyes and brain.
But I guess there are pros and cons with both.

I don't think they should be separate files, like the subZones are, but again that's just my feelings.
I think of the zone like it's a BOOK,
the "Main" "shift+" "option+" etc are pages of that book,
a subZone is the 2nd, 3rd, and so on, BOOK in that series, with all it's own pages.

Hope that makes sense.

So you'd have

DisplayUpperA1 NoAction
DisplayLowerA1 NoAction
RotaryA1 NoAction
Toggle+RotaryPushA1 NoAction

--------\/\/\/\/\/--------

DisplayUpperD8 NoAction
DisplayLowerD8 NoAction
RotaryD8 NoAction
Toggle+RotaryPushD8 NoAction


-----------------------------------------------


Shift+DisplayUpperA1 NoAction
Shift+DisplayLowerA1 NoAction
Shift+RotaryA1 NoAction
Shift+Toggle+RotaryPushA1 NoAction

--------\/\/\/\/\/--------

Shift+DisplayUpperD8 NoAction
Shift+DisplayLowerD8 NoAction
Shift+RotaryD8 NoAction
Shift+Toggle+RotaryPushD8 NoAction


All in the one zone and file.

Last edited by Freex; 08-19-2019 at 06:05 AM.
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Old 08-19-2019, 06:03 AM   #4106
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I could only get the modifiers to work as part of the "main" plugin zone.
So what happens when you want to use the modifiers in a sub-zone?
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Old 08-19-2019, 06:07 AM   #4107
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So what happens when you want to use the modifiers in a sub-zone?
Your sub zones have modifiers related the them.

they are a different "BOOK" they can have the same, different, or none.

Because they display when you hold down the modifier you can easily navigate, no guess work.
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Old 08-19-2019, 06:08 AM   #4108
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Your sub zones have modifiers related the them.

they are a different "BOOK" they can have the same, different, or none.
I thought you said they only worked as part of the main zone?
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Old 08-19-2019, 06:12 AM   #4109
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I thought you said they only worked as part of the main zone?
No sorry if that's what it came across as, they are zone related so, Main zone, sub zones all have their own modifiers.

IF you keep them in THAT zone, (very flexible)

If you used a GoZone Then as far as I know there could only be one modifier per VST. (restrictive)


In the fabfilter EQ
On Main Zone
I had A3 as Q, Shift+A3 as Shape, Option+A3 as Slope on the Fab zone(freq 1)
On Fab Zone 2
I had A3 as Q, Shift+A3 as Shape, Option+A3 as Slope on the Fab zone(freq 2)

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Old 08-19-2019, 06:16 AM   #4110
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No sorry if that's what it came across as, they are zone related so, Main zone, sub zones all have their own modifiers.

IF you keep them in THAT zone, (very flexible)

If you used a GoZone Then as far as I know there could only be one modifier per VST. (restrictive)
Ah, ok, I think I see So more like a 'modifier' zone for each zone or sub-zone.
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Old 08-19-2019, 06:22 AM   #4111
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Ah, ok, I think I see So more like a 'modifier' zone for each zone or sub-zone.
Yes but I think it need to be included as part of that zone, be it main or sub.

I think if it's just Zone Shift with a GoZone then you'd have to have Zone Shift2 etc..., other wise when CSI loaded that Plugins ZoneLibrary (main and sub Zones) it would see multiple Zone Shift.

So if it was just tagged on to the bootom of the zone or subzone, there would be less chance of a conflict.
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Old 08-19-2019, 04:04 PM   #4112
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New build is up.

VERY primitive OSC support.

Early days.

I've got 4 buttons on Touch OSC Logic Pad working on my iPhone outbound only to my MacMini.

If anyone is brave enough to try, lets' get some early testing in to see what trouble we run into

Calling all folks, especially those with OSC experience, I'll walk you through it, if there is interest.
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Old 08-19-2019, 04:28 PM   #4113
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I would love to try but I don't know how to setup a network...I have a tablet I would love to use but it's useless without a network.
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Old 08-19-2019, 09:51 PM   #4114
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Calling all folks, especially those with OSC experience, I'll walk you through it, if there is interest.
Do you think it makes sens to test this by OSCIIBot scripts ?

(Theoretically you can use a Midi based Control surface and translate the calls to OSC by that.)

-Michael
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Old 08-20-2019, 02:04 AM   #4115
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Hi Geoff

I'm happy to test some OSC with the X32 desk. Fully booked up with work until early Sept, so won't have time to look at it at all until then, unfortunately.

Will DEFINITELY need walking through it :-)

Andy
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Old 08-20-2019, 12:54 PM   #4116
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New build is up.

Now with primitive bi-directional OSC support.

Still looking for brave testers...
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Old 08-20-2019, 03:36 PM   #4117
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Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
New build is up.

Now with primitive bi-directional OSC support.

Still looking for brave testers...
What do you need to break...I mean, test it Geoff?



On a testing note, had a point tonight (about 2 hours in) that control dropped out, into configuration and it was back, but it was gone for a good minute before I reset.
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Old 08-20-2019, 04:39 PM   #4118
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On a testing note, had a point tonight (about 2 hours in) that control dropped out, into configuration and it was back, but it was gone for a good minute before I reset.
Cool, that's the hardest part for me to test, longer sessions under real conditions.

Please note the conditions as best you can remember them, and watch for this happening again, as I'm sure you will.

If you're working professionally, maybe restart CSI via the Config every hour or so, as you are now.

Quote:
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What do you need to break...I mean, test it Geoff?
Well, I've already started with Touch OSC, an app available for about US$5 for iOS and Android.

It's one of the more popular ones out there, kind of like an MCU, or Fender Precision

So, it's a good place to start.

I've got a few buttons working, but need to verify.

If you have that app, let's go !

I hadn't looked at it in a while, so I'm just rediscovering what it can do for us.

Not sure if this can be done, but I'm looking for capabilities like, phone/pad loads GUI for FX when mapped, automatically changing layouts on the phone/pad, fun stuff like that.

On the physical surfaces side:
--Support for larger format consoles like the Behringer X32.
--Support for cool color display tricks on some of the midrange units.

All this is likely much more easily accomplished with OSC.

It opens up a whole new realm for CSI.
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Old 08-21-2019, 11:25 AM   #4119
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Ok Geoff,

I'm ready to test OSC (not that i think I'll have too much use for it, but you never know and after all, it's for the greater good)

Here what i did, what am I missing?
Loaded Touch OSC on tablet
settings OCS connection,
Host ( I looked for IP of PC)
out IN and name all auto

Layout as Logic Touch

Done I see a track control layout and transport on Tablet.

CSI > Added OSC

Used the setting from tablet
"remore device IP" should that be "REMOTE" i put in ip from tablet .
in and out i used from OSC (auto 8000 and 9000
Surface I used Logi as it's the only choice. lol
Zone ?????? tried MCU.

Last edited by Freex; 08-21-2019 at 12:40 PM.
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Old 08-21-2019, 01:21 PM   #4120
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Ok Geoff,

I'm ready to test OSC (not that i think I'll have too much use for it, but you never know and after all, it's for the greater good)

Here what i did, what am I missing?
Loaded Touch OSC on tablet
settings OCS connection,
Host ( I looked for IP of PC)
out IN and name all auto

Layout as Logic Touch

Done I see a track control layout and transport on Tablet.

CSI > Added OSC

Used the setting from tablet
"remore device IP" should that be "REMOTE" i put in ip from tablet .
in and out i used from OSC (auto 8000 and 9000
Surface I used Logi as it's the only choice. lol
Zone ?????? tried MCU.
Cool.

You could check your PC IP by going in to Reaper config and pretending to add an OSC surface -- Choose Local Port in the mode list == Reaper will show the IP, it's probably the same as you have.

That goes in the Tablet config.

The IP address from the tablet goes in the Remote box in CSI config.

Ports look good

For Surface Template: TouchOSC_LogicTouch.ost
For Zone Folder: TouchOSC

The Stop, Play, Click, and Cycle buttons should work bi-directionaly.

That's it
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