Old 02-25-2011, 10:12 AM   #1
korakios
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Default MIDI Clock synchronization

Since version 4 is about to come how about a working midisync option?!
Many people have external hardware gear so external sync using midi clock would be useful.

I searched on the forum and didn't found any similar post(at least new),but if I made a mistake you can always lock this thread.

EDIT:
Made an issue tracker
http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=3420

Last edited by korakios; 07-03-2011 at 09:29 AM.
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Old 04-08-2011, 02:06 PM   #2
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I think we got this all backwards. How about telling the hardware to sync to Reaper and not try to make Reaper sync. Can someone try this, please and thanks
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Old 05-10-2011, 05:34 PM   #3
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I just want to chime in that this is REALLY needed. I have a ton of external hardware and I really like Reaper and I'd love to switch from Sonar but the midi time clock issues are an absolute brick wall for me. I have external drum machine and synths with a number of sync-able parameters that i use all the time. I hope someone is reading this and i really hope 4 addresses this.
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Old 05-10-2011, 05:39 PM   #4
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What's not working?
I have Reaper sending midi clock to HW drum machine and synth, and it works fine here. The only nag is that my vintage drum machine doesn't like the SPP that Reaper sends, only every second loop plays correctly. But that problem is solved by this: http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.p...046#post538046
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Old 05-11-2011, 09:22 AM   #5
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Ok,I've successfully slaved my drum machine(akai xr20) to Reaper(reaper sends clock to akai) BUT
THERE IS NO WAY TO PUT REAPER IN SLAVE MODE (Reaper v3.76)...
I have tried with hardware gear,some of them had a built in usb-midi feature and DOES NOT work...
The simplest way to test it was with MIDIOX generating MidiTimeCode.With MTC reaper could somehow sync(but it showed "chasing" all the time and had lag on start-stop)....With MidiClock Reaper did not sync to tempo and loosed sync after a second!
So I think the MidiClock issue isn't only just a request but a serious bug and will post it on the reaper's bug section...unless a mod explains me a proper way putting Reaper in slave mode,following the tempo,start-stop when my external gear does.
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Old 05-11-2011, 11:50 AM   #6
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+10
I hope Reaper could be set as Midi Clock Slave.
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Old 05-27-2011, 04:35 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabian View Post
What's not working?
I have Reaper sending midi clock to HW drum machine and synth, and it works fine here.]
I have inserted TC generators in tracks, set them to MTC.. enabled the ports to tranmit clock and SPP. Selected the appropriate outputs... NOTHING. No activity on my Midisport, none on the port. Same setup works perfect in Sonar. Gimme a heads up on your setup, maybe there is something i missed? I hope so...
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Old 05-28-2011, 02:06 AM   #8
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You gents may want to jump in to the pre-release forum, test the latest beta (portable install can be done so it does not disrupt your current installation), and post any and all bugs you find.

If that part of Reaper 4 does not work, the developers will want to hear about it.
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Old 05-28-2011, 04:00 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chvad SB View Post
I have inserted TC generators in tracks, set them to MTC.. enabled the ports to tranmit clock and SPP. Selected the appropriate outputs... NOTHING. No activity on my Midisport, none on the port. Same setup works perfect in Sonar. Gimme a heads up on your setup, maybe there is something i missed? I hope so...
I have both an audio+MIDI interface (Lexicon Lambda) and a MIDIsport 2x2. Works fine here.
What "TC generators" are you talking about?
Have you tried the JS FX from here http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.p...046#post538046 ?

Also, I have MS GS Wavetable Synth disabled, it is known to cause all sorts of weird MIDI problems.
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Old 06-01-2011, 01:11 PM   #10
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"What "TC generators" are you talking about?"

INSERT> SMPTE/LCT/MTC Timecode Generator

I don't seem to be getting any clock at all to external hardware. I've never had this problem with any other DAW using the exact same hardware.

" You gents may want to jump in to the pre-release forum, test the latest beta (portable install can be done so it does not disrupt your current installation), and post any and all bugs you find."

will do!
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Old 06-02-2011, 10:54 AM   #11
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I did another test and found something interesting.
Set Reaper at 120 bpm and enabled sync.
set my drum machine at 120bmp and pressed play.
Reaper started but not fully synced...was "chasing"...
Then I changed Reaper's tempo(although it should be LOCKED,since it's on 'sync' mode)...it all went like hell!
I set Reaper again on 120bpm and it started again on 'chasing' status
Then I changed on the fly the tempo of the machine drum and again Reaper lost sync..
So Reaper has a serious bug and cannot understand the tempo(midi clock) of external gear...
I am sure the anyone can confirm that.
Is this a bug or a missing feature?I'm really confused!

Last edited by korakios; 06-02-2011 at 06:32 PM.
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Old 06-03-2011, 08:52 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chvad SB View Post
I have inserted TC generators in tracks, set them to MTC.. enabled the ports to tranmit clock and SPP. Selected the appropriate outputs... NOTHING. No activity on my Midisport, none on the port. Same setup works perfect in Sonar. Gimme a heads up on your setup, maybe there is something i missed? I hope so...
I am sure you missed something because I tested it and it works(without the need of inserting TC)
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Old 06-03-2011, 09:03 AM   #13
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id love to know what. Ive been using sequencers for about 20 years now and have never had this issue with hardware or software. If you have any pointers, my ears are open!

are you saying that you get clock out to your hardware by just enabling clock on the ports?
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Old 06-03-2011, 09:41 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chvad SB View Post
........are you saying that you get clock out to your hardware by just enabling clock on the ports?
Yes, and I don't understand why you can't...
In the midi preferences I chose "enable output to this device" and "send clock/SPP to this device"
But maybe your hardware needs MTC(midi time code) and not midi clock?
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Old 06-03-2011, 09:45 AM   #15
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wow. that sucks. anyone else here using a MIDISPORT 8X8? i wonder if its an issue with the interface and reaper not playing well together. I'll try routing to a secondary MIDI interface i have sitting around tonight and see what happens. thanks for the input man!
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Old 06-03-2011, 10:03 AM   #16
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Which external gear you tried and it's not syncing?maybe you need only midi clock or only midi time code...I doupt if the problem is on MIDISPORT.

EDIT:If you need MTC check in the track you inserted the TC that you routed the correct midi output
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Old 06-03-2011, 12:12 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chvad SB View Post
are you saying that you get clock out to your hardware by just enabling clock on the ports?
Yes, MIDISport 2x2 and it works fine here except for when looping, but I think that is the outboard gear having problem with SPP.

Under Preferences > MIDI Devices, right click and enable Send Clock/SPP to output.

Disable MS GS Wavetable Synth, it may cause problems...
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Old 06-03-2011, 12:16 PM   #18
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"Which external gear you tried and it's not syncing?maybe you need only midi clock or only midi time code...I doupt if the problem is on MIDISPORT."

so the main stuff im trying to sync is a moog LP, an electribe and an older dr 660.

"EDIT:If you need MTC check in the track you inserted the TC that you routed the correct midi output "

Yeah I've def double checked this.

Aside from enabling the ports, is there some SYNC button somewhere that I need to activate?

This is really killing me because I Ive been on SONAR since version 1 and while I like a lot about it, i am in totally love with reapers envelopes and i'd love to move over to this completely.
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Old 06-03-2011, 01:05 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chvad SB View Post
I have inserted TC generators in tracks, set them to MTC.. enabled the ports to tranmit clock and SPP. Selected the appropriate outputs... NOTHING. No activity on my Midisport, none on the port. Same setup works perfect in Sonar. Gimme a heads up on your setup, maybe there is something i missed? I hope so...
You said earlier that the same setup works in Sonar,so noway the midisport cause any problem.That excludes any chance you had a feedback because it would not work in Sonar either...
Try changing the "low/high precision" mode on midi ports.
Are you on a pc or mac?If you are on a pc you could try with midiOX checking what data is transmitted/received...
for example you could open Reaper ,enable first midi output only,then connect the first output to midi input 2 of midisport ,open midiox&activate midi input 2 and monitor the data...
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Old 06-03-2011, 01:14 PM   #20
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"Disable MS GS Wavetable Synth, it may cause problems... "

Ill try that...

"If you are on a pc you could try with midiOX checking what data is transmitted/received..."
Thats a good idea. I'll def do that. Reports later!
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Old 06-17-2011, 06:51 PM   #21
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couldn't find "MS GS Wavetable Synth" to disable it. i dont believe it installed along with reaper. i had assumed it was included int he installer as id never installed it myself or heard of it.

im on windows xp sp3

there is no spp going to any instruments. ive checked on a dr 660 and an electribe. any other ideas? anyone i can contact at cuckos?
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Old 06-17-2011, 08:56 PM   #22
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'MS GS Wavetable Synth' should be on the midi preferences on the midi out section...
Use midiox to monitor the midi data and post the results!
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Old 06-18-2011, 02:04 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chvad SB View Post
im on windows xp sp3
The you won't find MS GS Wavetable Synth, so it should not be a problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chvad SB View Post
there is no spp going to any instruments. ive checked on a dr 660 and an electribe. any other ideas? anyone i can contact at cuckos?
Have you tried the MIDI clock generator by no-fi and Mich, http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.p...46#post538046? Look especially at post #33
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Old 06-19-2011, 09:15 AM   #24
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I'm gonna get a read out from MIDI OX tonight wen I get a second for sure. I'll post what I find.

I'll take a look at that other thread thanks!
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Old 06-19-2011, 09:26 AM   #25
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ok... as im writing this I got something happening! Noodling around with the MIDI settings I discovered a few things...

1) when i enabled the MIDI i/o on my Focusrite and tried syncing the ER-1 from that it worked perfectly. that's good but that isn't my primary MIDI interface.

2) I remembered my Novation K-Station has a handy feature that shows you external clock and what BPM it is when its receiving it, received clock from Focusrite... not the Midisport. Keep in mind all of this works in SONAR 8.5.

3) THEN... when i set the MIDI output to a single thread on the Midisport BAM. Clock going to everything!

4) so now my question is this... what am I losing when I do this? IS this gonna be a problem down the road?

ALSO... after testing this... clock out... recording beat from ER-1... I noticed that the recorded audio, unless I set my metronome to count it 2 bars before recording, I always miss the first beat of the ER-1 sequence. I'm fine having the count in but i thought I'd mention it.

ALSO ALSO... when I do have it set to count in 2 bars and everything starts fine... when I zoom into the recorded waveform Im noticing that the recorded audio at the top of the measure is a few milliseconds AHEAD of the top of the measure. it SOUNDS fine when listening to it but when cutting a loop from it, its a great deal more noticeable as the hit from the following measure is slightly present at the end of the cut loop. I can edit this out but it seems like any delay compensation happening might be overcompensating.

Thanks for all the help and also, the feedback!
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Old 07-03-2011, 09:23 AM   #26
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Come on all of you hardware junkies!vote here:

http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=3420

Keep posting here not on the issue tracker plz!
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Old 07-27-2011, 04:34 PM   #27
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God what a nightmare this is.

Ok I'm using the latest OSX version and was really hoping to synch Reaper to my main hardware sequencer (an Octopus, which incidentally synchs to all my other sequencers perfectly).

I'm in the middle of a track and I fancied multitracking all my midi parts into Reaper where I planned to do the final arrangement.

It therefore makes far more sense to synch Reaper to the Octopus, than the other way around - that way the Octopus is not trying to chase Reaper and can be left with it's own nice and solid clock.

So I tried everything and nothing seems to work (i'm using a MOTU midi express XT). Reaper, despite having all the synch options, simply will NOT respond to incoming midi clock/timecode/control/whatever. AAARRGGH.

So the next thing I tried was synching the octopus to reaper.

After much trial and error I got it to work (yay?) BUT ONLY BY SETTING THE PROJECT BPM TO HALF THE ACTUAL BPM!!!

If I set it to the correct tempo the octopus freaks out and needs resetting (glad i saved everything).

Clearly the TC generation by Reaper is incorrect. Perhaps it's generating it at a different frequency to normal stuff, or have I missed a setting for clock speed?

Either way the recorded midi is NOT very useful as it contains too many subtle timing errors and I'm not sure I have the patience left to go fix it.

Fail.
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Old 07-27-2011, 08:07 PM   #28
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Get this unit.
I use it for everything under the sun, even ancient machines like the Alesis HD24/96's, VDAT, etc. They make excellent quality hardware.
Buying a cheap 50 dollar DAW means we get great saving for real shit.
BTW the Octypus is a bad mofo, don't insult it by using some software for stable MIDI sync...
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Old 07-28-2011, 09:29 AM   #29
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Get this unit.
I use it for everything under the sun, even ancient machines like the Alesis HD24/96's, VDAT, etc. They make excellent quality hardware.
Buying a cheap 50 dollar DAW means we get great saving for real shit.
BTW the Octypus is a bad mofo, don't insult it by using some software for stable MIDI sync...
Of course it is, and I have no desire to, but reaper is just rubbish when it comes to midi.

I tried ableton this afternoon and got it working IN MIDI SLAVE MODE pretty much perfectly in about 20 minutes. Goodbye reaper...
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Old 07-28-2011, 10:17 AM   #30
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Maybe in v4 they could add midi sync...(It was a BIG mistake I bought Reaper without checking that but every modern daw had this feature since ages...)
Meanwhile you can vote on the issue tracker and hope we could get Cockos attention!

EDIT:I emailed Cockos(by the way ,great support!) and midi sync unfortunately is not a bug,but it's just Reaper's missing feature...
So don't try messing with different midi interfaces and settings...we have to wait for v5(I hope sooner ,in v4.something...)
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Last edited by korakios; 08-13-2011 at 10:53 AM. Reason: adding some more info!
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Old 09-10-2011, 08:41 AM   #31
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+7 to this feature , Midi Clock is so missing...
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Old 09-23-2011, 08:34 AM   #32
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Please revise this to include looping.
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Old 10-27-2011, 03:59 AM   #33
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Is this still not possible then, I take it?

I am another who wants to be able to use simple MIDI clock to sync Reaper and use it as the slave.
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Old 11-09-2011, 05:42 AM   #34
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I e-mailed REAPER support to ask about this, whether it is somehow possible and if not, whether it will be and have just received a response, which was as follows:

Quote:
REAPER should be able to sync to MIDI clock (if you right click on the play button and choose SPP in the list, it will sync to SPP/clock), however it does this in a mode where you must have the BPM set correctly in REAPER to start; REAPER will not be able to detect the actual BPM. This will likely never change, as too much of the way it processes audio and MIDI depends on knowing on what is coming.
I'm quite disappointed.


N.B. I don't think I wasn't allowed to share this part of the correspondence but if not, I apologise and will remove it.
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Old 12-03-2011, 05:57 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by korakios View Post
not a bug,but it's just Reaper's missing feature...
SPP works? ok, but
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister36 View Post
REAPER will not be able to detect the actual BPM. This will likely never change
ehm... what? so i hope it will be implemented until 5.99

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister36 View Post
I'm quite disappointed.
+1k and i have to spend more money on some "lite essentiell limited artist somedaw edu edition"...!? - but i still believe
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Old 12-12-2011, 02:33 AM   #36
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Why does all this seem so complicated?

I have reapers sending sync and everything works fine
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Old 12-12-2011, 06:46 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QuinnX View Post
Why does all this seem so complicated?

I have reapers sending sync and everything works fine
Try to do the opposite...it's not complicated,it's just impossible.
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Old 12-13-2011, 08:52 AM   #38
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maybe a reaper dev should give some reasons - or its just a lack of midi-knowledge?

for example, midi clock (slave) sync isn't implemented because it's a suboptimal setting unless you are dealing with latencies under one msec what is kind of esoteric ... knowing this, makes it clear why its just a nice to have and not "the" way to go... right? (hm, does pure-midi has any latency? ...)

btw: my setting of conflict: while using a korg electribe as slave, it does not send any transport control messages - so i tried to use it as master, and finally found this thread
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Old 12-31-2011, 05:34 AM   #39
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I NEED one instance of REAPER as the master controlling the TEMPO (in sync) of a 2nd instance of REAPER as the slave. ALL on the same PC.

I've deduced, I believe, that this is not possible at this time and that there may be reason for it to never be possible logically. I though that SPP (song position pointer) included tempo info. guess not.


Currently i have a slave instance of REAPER getting start stop loop from a MASTER instance of REAPER. though no following of the tempo of the master.

you may wanna vote here:
http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=3420

look for: Would you use this feature?
right below the post text and click to vote.

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Old 12-31-2011, 07:08 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tweed View Post
I NEED one instane of REAPER as the master controlling the TEMPO (in sync) of a 2nd instance of REAPER as the slave. ALL on the same PC.

I've deduced, I believe, that this is not possible at this time and that there may be reason for it to never be possible logically. I though that SPP (song position pointer) included tempo info. guess not.


Currently i have a slave instance of REAPER getting start stop loop from a MASTER instance of REAPER. though no following of the tempo of the master.

you may wanna vote here:
http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=3420

look for: Would you use this feature?
right below the post text and click to vote.
Is it not possible to convert mtc to smpte? Reaper does slave to smpte doesn't it?
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