Old 01-11-2021, 06:33 PM   #1
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Default Tascam Model 12 and Reaper

Simple question: Anyone here in Reaperland using the recently released Tascam Model 12? If so, does it play nice with Reaper and what are your experiences of using both together?

My aging mixer has two broken channels, no tempo locking of effects with external gear, and stops recording whenever it pleases.

I've also been listening to it a lot this last few weeks, and last night went back to my Focusrite Saffire for monitoring purposes, and the quality difference was quite noticeable.

So... The Model 12 is hovering around my shopping/wish list, and will be used standalone for recording, but the option of using it as a device with Reaper is there, and I'm wondering if anyone here is doing this already.

Thanks!

Link to the Model 12 - https://tascam.com/us/product/model_12/top
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Old 01-11-2021, 09:55 PM   #2
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While there's no telling how much of this is from folks that have a bit less know how/might be confused about some of the details, some of the specifics(namely ins/outs in "DAW Controller" mode made me a little bit uneasy...) were a bit concerning.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Reaper/comm...model_12_with/
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Old 01-11-2021, 10:06 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
While there's no telling how much of this is from folks that have a bit less know how/might be confused about some of the details, some of the specifics(namely ins/outs in "DAW Controller" mode made me a little bit uneasy...) were a bit concerning.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Reaper/comm...model_12_with/
Nice one, thanks! Right from the posts opening statement, it reminded that I'd noticed Reaper is notably absent from Tascam's own tutorials, while most other DAWs are there.

Thats not that unusual of course

Thanks for posting.
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Old 01-11-2021, 10:17 PM   #4
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Reply from the OP in the above thread...

"It for sure works with Reaper. I miss understood a couple things ill outline here. I ended up calling Tascam to resolve the issue and they nailed it.

To record up to 8 track simultaneously, you can't be in daw control mode. The Tascam rep simply described it as: normally daw control mode is for post recording, when you're doing your mixes. While in DAW controller mode, theres only 2 INs and 2 Out. While plugged in and not daw control mode, you can recording directly into your daw (including reaper) with all tracks at the same time.

While in daw control mode, the sub trs 1/4 out wont produce audio. Only the phone aux and the main outs can be heard. The main outs are xlr and my monitors were 1/4" trs.

Since figuring this out everything has been working perfectly in reaper. Definitely operator error. I so far highly recommend the model 12"

Nice!

Thanks again for posting.
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Old 01-11-2021, 10:33 PM   #5
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And considering the other thread I've been enjoying here lately...

Just how low end is anyone heres opinion of the pre amps and theirs specs, whether you've heard them or not

All opinions

EDIT: I've read the SoS review, they were complimentary about the Model 12, but I'm still interested in further opinions.
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Old 01-12-2021, 09:55 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by maxdembo View Post
And considering the other thread I've been enjoying here lately...

Just how low end is anyone heres opinion of the pre amps and theirs specs, whether you've heard them or not

All opinions

EDIT: I've read the SoS review, they were complimentary about the Model 12, but I'm still interested in further opinions.
As requested, my opinion...

First off SOS is my go to publication when searching for reviews of any kind, but like any reviews many grains of salt are required.

I have used Teac and Tascam products on and off for approx 50 years and found them all to be competent audio devices. I have not seen or heard of the Model 12 until today, but I assume it too is a competent audio device.

With that said, how is it possible that a ~ $600.00 unit with 6 preamps, compression and eq on all channels, dedicated mixer section, daw interface, etc, etc, etc, you get the point...can be anything but low to mid-fidelity at best (given that a single API or Neve or SSL mic pre will run you a heck of a lot more than the cost of the Model 12).

In my opinion get the best you can afford hardware for every link in your audio chain...and use it to its fullest potential.
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Old 01-12-2021, 01:00 PM   #7
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As requested, my opinion...

First off SOS is my go to publication when searching for reviews of any kind, but like any reviews many grains of salt are required.

I have used Teac and Tascam products on and off for approx 50 years and found them all to be competent audio devices. I have not seen or heard of the Model 12 until today, but I assume it too is a competent audio device.

With that said, how is it possible that a ~ $600.00 unit with 6 preamps, compression and eq on all channels, dedicated mixer section, daw interface, etc, etc, etc, you get the point...can be anything but low to mid-fidelity at best (given that a single API or Neve or SSL mic pre will run you a heck of a lot more than the cost of the Model 12).

In my opinion get the best you can afford hardware for every link in your audio chain...and use it to its fullest potential.
Fully noted.

Bang for buck is certainly a trade off in this price range. Not dogshit or noisy/full of hiss/thin and brittle sounding would be acceptable

I currently have a Behringer Xenyx UFX1604, and it sounds less than acceptable to my ears, and being Behringer, I'm expecting (and read about somewhere, so could be bollocks) it to get worse over time (seems to be luck of the draw with these mixers whether you get a good one or a bad)

My Focusrite Saffire pre's sound much better to me, tho I dont have any experience of 'pro' level pre amps as a comparison.
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Old 02-09-2021, 11:02 AM   #8
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Im definitely still considering this. Firmware updates seem to be coming for it and adding functionality as well as bug fixing.

The last user report I read said how they'd got it all set up with MIDI and BFD3, that really didnt help me resist considering the purchase!
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Old 02-22-2021, 06:45 AM   #9
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Hi Maxdembo,

I found your thread and thought it matched my earlier situation. I've had a number of mixers over the years and until recently had a Zoom L-12 which was a great... but crucially for me it didn't have midi which led to frustations when trying to sync up tracks with tempos from different sources. I like to be creative DAWLess and then bring material into the DAW to finalise.

I took the plunge and bought the Tascam Model 12 and few weeks ago and got round to testing some functionality, I too am a Reaper user and I've listed my experience below as these were the questions I was keen to have answered prior to purchase. Obviously YMMV depending on your hardware/software. There's more low-level troubleshooting of some minor bits over the Tascam forum further down under this post https://www.tascamforums.com/threads...s-to-daw.8394/

- Will it Midi sync with devices?

Yes, I'm using it primarily as the master clock for 4 daisy-chained midi synths/modules. The clicktrack on the machine is sync'd with the midi timecode so if you record say a guitar along with the click and then want to add a drum part you can do that by outputting the midi to a drum machine and have the tempo match up with your pre-recorded guitar. This for me is super handy, grab the moment with a melody and guitar rhythm, then add stuff in without having to fire up the DAW.

- Will it control other hardware devices?

Yes, but it's going to depend on what you want it to do and the target device. I my case I'm using a Synthstrom Deluge as a sequencer and it works great. Let's say I've previously built up a drum track on the sequencer and I now want to use that as the basis for a full song. Connect the audio out from the Deluge to the M12's inputs, connect via midi making sure the timecode is being sent, hit play/record on the M12 and it will trigger a play on the sequencer which means as recording kicks off it's sync'd to the very start of the track. This is particularly useful because, chances are you'll come back at some point in the future with another track from the sequencer or some other midi device that you'll want married up timewise, if you repeat the process everything will be in time.

- Can it be used to control Reaper?

Yes, although Reaper isn't specifically listed as supported. You have to put the M12 into 'DAW mode' which then gives you a number of basic control points such as start/stop, faders, panning etc; the manual has a full rundown on what can be controlled. You need to be realistic though, it's not a substitute for a full-on hardware controller and it can't do everything, if say you've got 32 tracks in the DAW then you're limited on how many you can control. The faders aren't motorised so you have to align things when starting (and try to avoid using the mouse to shift faders!)

- Will it record all tracks into Reaper via USB?

Yes, It serves as a multi-input/output audio interface provided you've got the drivers installed and everything is working. I'm using Windows 10 and the drivers work great, you set the M12 device up in the preferences and then assign each M12 tracks over to the Reaper tracks. This is handy as you can map any M12 track to any Reaper track, for example you could record multiple vocal tracks into the DAW and for each one just send the same M12 track into Reaper mapping it to the next available Reaper track each time to save disconnecting and reconnecting the mic each time. I ran 10 tracks out at 24bit 48Khz to my ageing i7 from 2015 and it was fine (no pops or clicks), if you did have problems lowering the track count may well sort it out.

- Can you listen to tracks back from DAW?

Yes, but, as you may be aware there's a bit of a caveat. For main stereo out from the computer you need to listen to that back through tracks 1/2 on the M12. It's not the end of the world, it might even be useful if you were mastering on external gear. It would be cool if you could just assign it to a separate stereo return, perhaps on 11/12 but hey. That aside, you can listen to any of the other tracks you've got in the Reaper in conjunction with either pre-recorded tracks that are still on the M12 or indeed with live tracks that you're about to record. If for example you had an old song session in Reaper and wanted to add some further recordings you could send and mix those tracks from the DAW and then record along with them externally on the M12 or indeed just go straight into the DAW as per the above USB recording point. Bottom line is it's flexible.

- If recording to the DAW live and I want to add plugin effects is there latency delay in the monitor?

Yes, but it depends how you work and this is always the case with this type of setup. If the track has to go out from the interface, into the computer, be processed and then come back out to the listener there will be an amount of latency which is perceived as an short echo in the headphones. You can listen live to the input and add as many plugin effects as you want but this is going to ramp up the processing time and therefore increase the latency. Bear in mind I'm using a relatively old PC so it may be less of a problem with newer machine. There's a couple of solutions, Tascam offer a part of the driver which allows you to adjust the latency which you can get at within Reaper, I've not done exhaustive testing but it does make a difference to the length of echo but you will start to get pops and clicks if the computer can't keep up. You may be better off monitoring and recording on the M12 so you get the natural 'live' recording feel, then taking a few moments to move the track into Reaper, apply effects and use that new DAW track to listen to as you do more on the M12. This gives you a side-stepped version of the track which you can mess with. It's a couple more steps but it's no biggie.

All in all it's a great bit of kit and works very well with Reaper, it brings things together in such a way you can work DAWless or with a DAW or a mix of the two and it's pretty intuitive to use. There's a bit of set up and testing but it shouldn't take too long to get a good workflow going.

Good luck!
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Old 02-22-2021, 08:51 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by LuKeNuKuM View Post
Hi Maxdembo,

I found your thread and thought it matched my earlier situation. I've had a number of mixers over the years and until recently had a Zoom L-12 which was a great... but crucially for me it didn't have midi which led to frustations when trying to sync up tracks with tempos from different sources. I like to be creative DAWLess and then bring material into the DAW to finalise.

I took the plunge and bought the Tascam Model 12 and few weeks ago and got round to testing some functionality, I too am a Reaper user and I've listed my experience below as these were the questions I was keen to have answered prior to purchase. Obviously YMMV depending on your hardware/software. There's more low-level troubleshooting of some minor bits over the Tascam forum further down under this post https://www.tascamforums.com/threads...s-to-daw.8394/

- Will it Midi sync with devices?

Yes, I'm using it primarily as the master clock for 4 daisy-chained midi synths/modules. The clicktrack on the machine is sync'd with the midi timecode so if you record say a guitar along with the click and then want to add a drum part you can do that by outputting the midi to a drum machine and have the tempo match up with your pre-recorded guitar. This for me is super handy, grab the moment with a melody and guitar rhythm, then add stuff in without having to fire up the DAW.

- Will it control other hardware devices?

Yes, but it's going to depend on what you want it to do and the target device. I my case I'm using a Synthstrom Deluge as a sequencer and it works great. Let's say I've previously built up a drum track on the sequencer and I now want to use that as the basis for a full song. Connect the audio out from the Deluge to the M12's inputs, connect via midi making sure the timecode is being sent, hit play/record on the M12 and it will trigger a play on the sequencer which means as recording kicks off it's sync'd to the very start of the track. This is particularly useful because, chances are you'll come back at some point in the future with another track from the sequencer or some other midi device that you'll want married up timewise, if you repeat the process everything will be in time.

- Can it be used to control Reaper?

Yes, although Reaper isn't specifically listed as supported. You have to put the M12 into 'DAW mode' which then gives you a number of basic control points such as start/stop, faders, panning etc; the manual has a full rundown on what can be controlled. You need to be realistic though, it's not a substitute for a full-on hardware controller and it can't do everything, if say you've got 32 tracks in the DAW then you're limited on how many you can control. The faders aren't motorised so you have to align things when starting (and try to avoid using the mouse to shift faders!)

- Will it record all tracks into Reaper via USB?

Yes, It serves as a multi-input/output audio interface provided you've got the drivers installed and everything is working. I'm using Windows 10 and the drivers work great, you set the M12 device up in the preferences and then assign each M12 tracks over to the Reaper tracks. This is handy as you can map any M12 track to any Reaper track, for example you could record multiple vocal tracks into the DAW and for each one just send the same M12 track into Reaper mapping it to the next available Reaper track each time to save disconnecting and reconnecting the mic each time. I ran 10 tracks out at 24bit 48Khz to my ageing i7 from 2015 and it was fine (no pops or clicks), if you did have problems lowering the track count may well sort it out.

- Can you listen to tracks back from DAW?

Yes, but, as you may be aware there's a bit of a caveat. For main stereo out from the computer you need to listen to that back through tracks 1/2 on the M12. It's not the end of the world, it might even be useful if you were mastering on external gear. It would be cool if you could just assign it to a separate stereo return, perhaps on 11/12 but hey. That aside, you can listen to any of the other tracks you've got in the Reaper in conjunction with either pre-recorded tracks that are still on the M12 or indeed with live tracks that you're about to record. If for example you had an old song session in Reaper and wanted to add some further recordings you could send and mix those tracks from the DAW and then record along with them externally on the M12 or indeed just go straight into the DAW as per the above USB recording point. Bottom line is it's flexible.

- If recording to the DAW live and I want to add plugin effects is there latency delay in the monitor?

Yes, but it depends how you work and this is always the case with this type of setup. If the track has to go out from the interface, into the computer, be processed and then come back out to the listener there will be an amount of latency which is perceived as an short echo in the headphones. You can listen live to the input and add as many plugin effects as you want but this is going to ramp up the processing time and therefore increase the latency. Bear in mind I'm using a relatively old PC so it may be less of a problem with newer machine. There's a couple of solutions, Tascam offer a part of the driver which allows you to adjust the latency which you can get at within Reaper, I've not done exhaustive testing but it does make a difference to the length of echo but you will start to get pops and clicks if the computer can't keep up. You may be better off monitoring and recording on the M12 so you get the natural 'live' recording feel, then taking a few moments to move the track into Reaper, apply effects and use that new DAW track to listen to as you do more on the M12. This gives you a side-stepped version of the track which you can mess with. It's a couple more steps but it's no biggie.

All in all it's a great bit of kit and works very well with Reaper, it brings things together in such a way you can work DAWless or with a DAW or a mix of the two and it's pretty intuitive to use. There's a bit of set up and testing but it shouldn't take too long to get a good workflow going.

Good luck!
What an awesome post. Thank you muchly, very much appreciated.

I think I shall be taking the plunge in a month or so, just want to see if I can get my current interface working again first.

Thanks again, thats a great description of working with the M12. Your Deluge use is exactly the kind of thing I was hoping for
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Old 02-23-2021, 01:26 AM   #11
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@lukenukum

Do you use a Retrokits RK006 btw? The chances of mine just getting taped the side of the mixer are very high

Making the M12 a MIDI hub for double digit amounts of MIDI kit sounds great to me. I already have an RK006 and everything synced up, just not to the mixer's own transport.

Anyway, if you use one, does it play nice with the M12?
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Old 02-23-2021, 05:42 AM   #12
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@lukenukum

Do you use a Retrokits RK006 btw? The chances of mine just getting taped the side of the mixer are very high

Making the M12 a MIDI hub for double digit amounts of MIDI kit sounds great to me. I already have an RK006 and everything synced up, just not to the mixer's own transport.

Anyway, if you use one, does it play nice with the M12?
Sadly not able to confirm that! I've only got 4 midi devices to hook up so I daisychain using 'thru'. I've not used an RK006, but if everything is adhearing to MIDI standards (M12 + RK006) then I can't see why it wouldn't work. Hah, that said, when did eveerything "just work" ? :-)
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Old 02-23-2021, 05:48 AM   #13
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when did eveerything "just work" ? :-)
Haha! Hence me embracing a hybrid slightly dawless set up, and this thread, and why im in this mess in the first place!

They said computers would make it all easy! They said we didnt need hardware any more!

ALL LIES!
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Old 02-26-2021, 02:50 AM   #14
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I`m down to a pair of Korg Nanokontrols, a Korg Nanopad & a Roland TD8 (enhanced) drum kit. Oh, and my Emu Xboard 61.

All work OK, no issues with master/slave or indeed MIDI, apart from the Xboard, whose direct USB connector died, but it still works on a regular 5 pin DIN midi cable.

Maybe worth your while at some stage to try going further "in the box"?

I had an Akai 10-way MIDI active patchboard when I was really MIDI`d up, but got rid of it when I went ADAT & stopped using a regular mixer.
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Old 02-26-2021, 11:49 AM   #15
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Im already completely in the box mate, and setting up a system that doesnt use the PC at all (but it can be incorporated in that way, if need be, and thats a happy by product)

Forgive me Ivan, but unless its an outboard mixer youre suggesting, with built in multitrack recorder, its not fulfilling my criteria or aims.

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Old 02-26-2021, 01:26 PM   #16
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Aha! I didnt realise that was where you were going.
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Old 02-26-2021, 01:32 PM   #17
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Aha! I didnt realise that was where you were going.
I was actually setting up a system that is kinda modular (the whole thing can be taken apart and just one bit of kit and a tiny recorder, and maybe one effects thing can be used separately to make a whole track) so that it would be a mobile system, meaning I could take as little or as much kit away with me as was context appropriate, using sounds of the environment as inspiration and part of the actual recording (temp sensors, light sensors, field recorders, contact mics etc)

Then covid happened, plus Im autistic and have OCD and bunch of other stuff making leaving the house quite an impossibility.

Still, I can make an album in each room of my house instead!

Also, heavy procrastination so I've done next to nothing
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Old 02-28-2021, 05:03 AM   #18
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ROFLMAO!

That`s even further left of centre than me!! Life can be SO interesting, eh?

Last night I decided that I would forget about doing songs specifically for "the album" and just make some happy noises that would never get into my band`s repertoire... maybe that will get me off my arse and back to recording some fresh stuff instead of obsessing over minute errors on the stuff I already did.

Maybe we should start a club? Obsessive musicians and composers unite???
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Old 02-28-2021, 06:21 AM   #19
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ROFLMAO!

That`s even further left of centre than me!! Life can be SO interesting, eh?

Last night I decided that I would forget about doing songs specifically for "the album" and just make some happy noises that would never get into my band`s repertoire... maybe that will get me off my arse and back to recording some fresh stuff instead of obsessing over minute errors on the stuff I already did.

Maybe we should start a club? Obsessive musicians and composers unite???
I wouldnt join any club that would have me as a member!

Plenty of us noise makers out there -


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Old 02-28-2021, 11:16 AM   #20
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Now that is what I call off the wall! Love it!
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Old 02-28-2021, 11:19 PM   #21
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Now that is what I call off the wall! Love it!
I own all that crap. I love the Koma stuff. One small guitar pedal device with 2 proximity sensors in it that control a bunch of control voltage outputs... Instant theremin control of any CV aspect.

https://koma-elektronik.com/?product=kommander

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Old 03-01-2021, 08:12 AM   #22
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I.....MUST.....resist.....I . . . . MUSSTT . . .....resisssttttt.... *gasp*
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Old 03-03-2021, 01:18 AM   #23
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I.....MUST.....resist.....I . . . . MUSSTT . . .....resisssttttt.... *gasp*
Do you have any CV based gear?
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Old 03-03-2021, 02:33 AM   #24
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Not sure if I still have it, but I did have a CV-based mini synth years ago. I`ll go look in the attic.
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Old 03-03-2021, 09:51 PM   #25
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I was just wondering as obviously that device would be useless without CV based gear.
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Old 03-04-2021, 02:11 AM   #26
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Heh - to be honest, I am SO easily distracted these days I should probably just forget all about it until things settle down a bit more.
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Old 03-04-2021, 03:03 AM   #27
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Heh - to be honest, I am SO easily distracted these days I should probably just forget all about it until things settle down a bit more.
Yeah, im totally avoiding going full on modular. Its an expensive, expansive world and I already have more than I need with two semi modular synths and a bunch of pedals that accept CV in their expression holes
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