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Old 08-26-2019, 04:35 AM   #1
Vagelis
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Default Reason 11 is coming in September and it's a plug-in too!

There would be so many nice instruments and fx to use in Reaper as vst!

https://cdm.link/2019/08/reason-11-n...LFYan5BVfHBPs4

Last edited by Vagelis; 08-26-2019 at 04:40 AM.
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Old 08-26-2019, 04:41 AM   #2
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But is it still going to have the fiddly interface.. no play cursor auto return.. I'm kind of interested but using Reason always makes me feel like I'm trying to perform keyhole surgery..
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Old 08-26-2019, 06:05 AM   #3
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Seems like the "Reason Rack" plugin is a virtual rack for instruments and effects. Hence not using this interface.

-Michael
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Old 08-26-2019, 06:16 AM   #4
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The founder and CEO has left the company or went to a retirement. Hence, the change in the new company Reason Studios, instead of Propellerhead.
I am dedicated Reason user since v1.0 with Impulse Tracker! And now I own their last v10.4 but do not use it that often.

*I remember the "brilliant" idea to have Record™ as a DAW for Reason. I laughed. And didn't upgrade till they merged them together and kept Reason as the name. What were they thinking... VST support is clumsy (or was by the end of v9.x). RAM hog hungry! Using it with dearVR or other "spacial" VST plugins was a painful endeavour. Maybe still is... have to test it.
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Old 08-26-2019, 06:27 AM   #5
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I actually just re-sold my Reason license this year. I think it was version 6 or something. Fun DAW, but I hadn't used it in quite a while. Moved on to what I consider bigger/better things, but they have some cool synths in it.

That's pretty cool that they're making it a plugin.
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Old 08-26-2019, 08:05 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
Seems like the "Reason Rack" plugin is a virtual rack for instruments and effects. Hence not using this interface.

-Michael
This^^

It shows up in this video.Their grain sampler is also included and many more.. Yummyyy

https://youtu.be/UPYbkUc205k
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Old 08-26-2019, 08:27 AM   #7
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way kewl if it works well.... and long overdue

enough of that rewire stuff... a VST3 would be great to have...

I guess we will see and hear by and by
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Old 08-26-2019, 08:29 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hopi View Post
a VST3 would be great to have...
The VST plugin version of Reason will be VST3-only. The plugin version will not host other VST2 or VST3 plugins. Which is kind of disappointing...(The functionality is in the stand alone application anyway.)
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Old 08-26-2019, 11:51 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bladerunner View Post
But is it still going to have the fiddly interface.. no play cursor auto return.. I'm kind of interested but using Reason always makes me feel like I'm trying to perform keyhole surgery..
Reason already has play cursor auto return - 10.2 feature
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Old 08-26-2019, 12:06 PM   #10
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Interesting

I got v10 last yr after using v 1-4 alot and a break.

Not used massively yet but for anything non-acoustic it's a good creative playground imo.

Rewiring to reaper was always the most potent combo, tho sometimes fiddly, so acting as instrument should be a net gain.
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Old 08-26-2019, 12:14 PM   #11
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Do note that Reason Rack as plugin now also means that ReWire is discontinued.
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Old 08-26-2019, 12:17 PM   #12
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Do note that Reason Rack as plugin now also means that ReWire is discontinued.
Will anyone cry for rewire?!

Just one of those sub optimal protocols we had to live with..
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Old 08-26-2019, 01:49 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bladerunner View Post
But is it still going to have the fiddly interface.. no play cursor auto return.. I'm kind of interested but using Reason always makes me feel like I'm trying to perform keyhole surgery..

I think they added the auto return feature now.

They have been making slow quiet workflow enhancements.

But compared to DAWS like Reaper and other DAWS, they can be very slow to implement certain things and their major releases can often make you feel a little underwhelmed.

They focus more on devices and less on workflow. Where Reaper focus primarily on workflow (or being able to customize a personal workflow) and very little on plugins.
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Old 08-26-2019, 01:52 PM   #14
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Do note that Reason Rack as plugin now also means that ReWire is discontinued.
Oh really ? Not that i use it, but I thought that they gain profits by selling their technology to other companies.
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Old 08-26-2019, 01:52 PM   #15
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Do note that Reason Rack as plugin now also means that ReWire is discontinued.
Yes.

And also being in VST mode it cant host VSTs, nor record/edit audio/midi.

To me that's kind of a big limitation as Reason's sequencer was good for certain workflows and has good comping and pitch editing. I could see it getting some sales for users with DAWS that are weak in certain areas Reason was actually OK in.
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Old 08-26-2019, 01:58 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Vagelis View Post
Oh really ? Not that i use it, but I thought that they gain profits by selling their technology to other companies.
I don't think they charged money for ReWire but they didn't want everyone using it, so access to the SDK had to be separately requested from them.
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Old 08-26-2019, 02:01 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Do note that Reason Rack as plugin now also means that ReWire is discontinued.
ReWire was such a bombshell. Never liked it although have used it in Reaper.
Propellers had this idea in their mind that they establish some kind of audio-culture. Stripped down of the fancy graphics and Reason is just another synth-sampler-mixer.
That flip rack to manually rout virtual cables is so time consuming and even blatant! Why? Why is this "try to emulate analogue workflow" still present (not talking about analogue emulation of sound!)?
Thankfully, they didn't emulate the plugging a virtual jack-plug and the clicking sound of it...

I would never mix a song ever again in Reason. Edit, tweak a sound, sound design - yes. Mixing - no.
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Old 08-26-2019, 05:04 PM   #18
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Quote:
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ReWire was such a bombshell. Never liked it although have used it in Reaper.
Propellers had this idea in their mind that they establish some kind of audio-culture. Stripped down of the fancy graphics and Reason is just another synth-sampler-mixer.
That flip rack to manually rout virtual cables is so time consuming and even blatant! Why? Why is this "try to emulate analogue workflow" still present (not talking about analogue emulation of sound!)?
Thankfully, they didn't emulate the plugging a virtual jack-plug and the clicking sound of it...

I would never mix a song ever again in Reason. Edit, tweak a sound, sound design - yes. Mixing - no.

Yeah.

I actually enjoy Reason for composing. It's very simple sequencer was actually pretty efficient as a sketchpad and for mixing instrumentals, I actually liked it (pre-Record days)

I think when they went Record, they lost focus. That said they rarely did any updates before Record and every new feature was tightly vetted.

The problem is that Record made Reason a DAW and for whatever reason I dont think they could add the features fast enough to compete with other workflows and certain features kind of cluttered it.

The mixer for example, while a huge improvement over the old 14:2 Mackie style mixer, it created unneeded clutter. Does every channel need a compressor, EQ etc? In a hardware world it is one thing, but in software people want to conserve real estate space.

In most DAWS, if you want an EQ, you just insert it where/when you need it. If you really need it on every channel, you can do it with templates.


The improvements they made midi wise feels like they should have been implemented 5 years ago. Although much needed, but the rate Reaper and other DAWS implement stuff is light speed ahead of Reason.

They do create great instruments though, so I guess Reason 10 actually showed us the direction Props wanted to focus on (instruments)

I think the problem is though even with VSTs the competition is huge. They will still need to step their game up.
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Old 08-26-2019, 08:11 PM   #19
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well VST3 is OK with me and I'd think their rack would be a welcome addition to the vast list of VSTi's in today's amazing world....

I still say, good... lets see how it turns out.
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Old 08-26-2019, 10:05 PM   #20
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Will anyone cry for rewire?! .
I once did some tests rewiring Reaper with Reaper. There might be uses for this.

But what in fact would make sense would be rewiring Reaper with Reaper on two boxes over a Network connection.

I do know that there once was a project for providing a (brand independent) networked rewire diver. AFAIK, same is abandoned since long

-Michael
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Old 08-26-2019, 10:34 PM   #21
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Now Ableton just need to release their device ecosystem as a plugin and I'm all set.
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Old 08-27-2019, 01:49 AM   #22
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The mixer for example, while a huge improvement over the old 14:2. Does every channel need a compressor, EQ etc? In a hardware world it is one thing, but in software people want to conserve real estate space.
In most DAWS, if you want an EQ, you just insert it where/when you need it. If you really need it on every channel, you can do it with templates.
The improvements they made MIDI wise feels like they should have been implemented 5 years ago.
Reason is overhyped. Great visuals, no doubt! Regarding design and workflow it is a pain in the brain - waste of time in scrolling and dragging virtual cables?! I know they have normal drop down and contextual menus but anyway.

Of course in the modern digital era we need to save as much screen real estate as possible. All those fancy plugins with just 4 or 5 knobs that have "hardware device" look which takes ×10 the optimal real estate, are eye-candy "immersive" marketing wheedle.

There are three main important components that every plugin should have in the interface and visible:
  • input and output meters (checking levels) with proper scale (linear, circular is important to be carefully chosen)
  • sliders before knobs
  • simple space dividers, no need for fancy labels or decals
  • colour harmony theme and elements!

bad design - waste of space!




promising design - knobs could've been sliders to the bottom left! needs input signal meter




good design - the brushed aluminium is an overkill though; knobs could've been diagonal sliders for example; a freq. spectrum screen would be much more adequate than those fancy knobs
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Old 08-27-2019, 02:16 AM   #23
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adXok,
If you really don't like these skeuomorphic visuals (as you just want to see boring sliders) turn off the GUI in Reaper with the UI button!

To my mind both of those plugins are good designs. Clear and easy to read while being visually appealing. One GUI evokes physical hardware without confusing visuals such as silly little fiddly buttons which may just be faux lights which may or may not be controllable (which I have seen on other less well visually designed skeuomorphic GUIs), the other is a fine modern GUI with well laid out controls.

I believe these appealing visuals in cosmetically different designs help the brain remember multiple plugins as if they were physical items in the real world. Just remembering each plugin from function, and sometimes subtle differences in sound could be more difficult. It is already easy enough to forget multiple plugins that do much the same job already!
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Old 08-27-2019, 04:02 AM   #24
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adXok,
If you really don't like these skeuomorphic visuals (as you just want to see boring sliders) turn off the GUI in Reaper with the UI button
That would be even worse. Blue Cat Audio - they have a nice GUI, FabFilter as well. Nomad Factory is obviously compensating with visuals, whilst theri plugins are just below average.
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Old 08-27-2019, 04:24 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by zabukowski View Post
Reason already has play cursor auto return - 10.2 feature
Ah that's good to know they finally listened!!!!!!
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Old 08-27-2019, 04:38 AM   #26
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Ah that's good to know they finally listened!!!!!!
Yeah, probably slipped in somehow at one of those stuff "meetings" that usually could have been a simple e-mail.
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Old 08-27-2019, 04:47 AM   #27
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...Nomad Factory is obviously compensating with visuals, whilst theri plugins are just below average.
I was only going by visuals presented by you here. I haven't tried Nomad plugins.
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Old 08-27-2019, 05:41 AM   #28
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I was only going by visuals presented by you here. I haven't tried Nomad plugins.
Try them if you have the time, but be prepare to clutter your screen with wasted space. Hardware emulations... get out Nomad.
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Old 08-27-2019, 02:18 PM   #29
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You can buy Reason 11 Intro for 99 Dollars. It will get you all this to use as a plugin in Reaper, which seems like a pretty good deal I think, and with 2.6GB of sounds and samples.

Europa Synthesizer
Thor Polysonic Synthesizer
Subtractor analog Synthesizer

NN-XT Advanced Sampler
NN-19 Sampler
Kong Drum Designer
Dr. Octo Rex loop player
Redrum pattern-based drum machine

ID-8 modules
Combinator

Scales & Chords
Note Echo
Dual Arpeggio

RV7000 Advanced Reverb
Scream 4 Sound Destruction Unit
Pulsar Dual LFO
Audiomatic Retro Transformer

Softube Guitar Amplifier with amp and cabinet modeling
Softube Bass Amplifier with amp and cabinet modeling
MClass 4-band mastering EQ
MClass Dual Band Stereo Imager
MClass Stereo Compressor
MClass Maximizer with look-ahead and soft clip
DDL-1 Digital Delay Line
CF-101 Chorus/Flanger

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Old 09-10-2019, 07:37 PM   #30
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Will this VST thing approach make it easier for WINE also maby?
Both NI-stuff and R10-stuff scaled when embeded in REAPER and Windows blur fix thing should be off, i think.
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Like, how many instances/limitations hmm..
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Old 09-11-2019, 03:21 AM   #31
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Someone on KVR found this:

https://cdm.link/2019/08/reason-11-new-plugin/

Got my answer
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Old 09-11-2019, 06:34 AM   #32
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Do you think it's smart of them to make two different versions of the software? Could it not function as one?
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Old 09-15-2019, 04:43 AM   #33
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Both NI-stuff and R10-stuff scaled when embeded in REAPER and Windows blur fix thing should be off, i think.
If REAPER set to aware + ignore and run Kontakt as separate process will make it scale what ever Windows 10 is set to, but 200% happens to be the best (less blur) scale and not sure if REAPER loves this atm all the time.. hmm
Guess this is the same for Reason or anything.
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