Video Not Scrubbing Properly

[erichiop]

Working with video in Reaper feels bugged.

When I move an item it will only scrub the video moving forward down the timeline and stop scrubbing when I move it backwards. The video scrubbing is not smooth and behaves different at different vertical and horizontal zoom levels (dropping frames). Additionally, when moving an item forward to line it up with a specific shot in the video, I click hold and move the item, scrubbing to the shot and I release my mouse. After releasing my mouse, the start of the item does not actually line up with the shot that I scrubbed to when moving the item.

Has anyone else encountered this, any suggestions?

Using H.264 Quicktime.

[_Stevie_]

Yep, experiencing the same. Apparently, this behaviour is not dependend on the used codecs. I tried VLC, AVFoundation and ffmpeg. Reaper behaves the same with all these codecs. So I assume, it's a Reaper thing.

[airon]

H.264 is the culprit. It’s a GOP codec in that it does not compress each frame individually.

Going backwards requires a lot more CPU.

If you’re working extensively with scrubbing, it pays to transcode the video to a non-GOP codec, such as Prores Proxy, with a free tool such as Tencoder. You should have way less problems that way.

[_Stevie_]

Hey airon,

absolutely true. But in my case, I'm using an optimized video, that uses only interframes.
This one runs completely flawlessly in Nuendo and other DAWs.

[Justin]

What decoding mode is it using? you can check by using ctrl+f2 (source properties) on the video item.

[_Stevie_]

Length: 29:16.520
Video: 1024x576@25.00fps, Aspect=1.00, Decoding format=I420/YV12


Using macOS 10.7+ AVFoundation Video Decoder

Could it be that Reaper only updates the video image, when the cursor stops?
At least I got the impression when jogging thru the project.

Here's what it looks like with Nuendo (constant video updating): https://www.dropbox.com/s/j5hbhrrchb...20jog.gif?dl=0

And here's Reaper (the video only gets updated, when I make a small pause between movements)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/bcb1sz4lpu...20jog.gif?dl=0

[airon]

I tried that too, but it worked less well than I’d hoped.

It’s usualy Prores for my editing and mixing work now. Prores Proxy 1080/540/360p at quality12-15 usually.

[_Stevie_]

I'm pretty sure, it's not a codec thing. I hope Justin can look into it.

[airon]

You can tell Reaper to show the video where the mouse cursor is when you move an item.

In terms of decoding systems, MacOS is an unkown to me, I have to rely on Windows sutff, so that’s VLC and FFMPEG, though I wish we had a more efficient encoder, such as AVFoundation.

I actually use the snap offset of items quite often to position material. Some sometimes I’ll continuously place the playhead/edit cursor where the mouse cursor is by hoding a key, and then mouse-over snap an item to that position.

The middle mouse cursor also places the play/edit cursor, but it does this without changing item selections. I hope this is useful information.

[_Stevie_]

Originally Posted by airon

You can tell Reaper to show the video where the mouse cursor is when you move an item.

Pretty cool, just tried that. However, the video is still stuttering.

Originally Posted by airon

In terms of decoding systems, MacOS is an unkown to me, I have to rely on Windows sutff, so that’s VLC and FFMPEG, though I wish we had a more efficient encoder, such as AVFoundation.

I actually tried it on Windows and OSX, with the same outcome.
On Windows, I used VLC as decoder in Reaper.

Originally Posted by airon

I actually use the snap offset of items quite often to position material. Some sometimes I’ll continuously place the playhead/edit cursor where the mouse cursor is by hoding a key, and then mouse-over snap an item to that position.

The middle mouse cursor also places the play/edit cursor, but it does this without changing item selections. I hope this is useful information.

Great stuff!

[_Stevie_]

Found out another thing... Scrubbing actually works smoothly, as long as you don't scrub too fast. When you scrub too fast, it gets jittery.

[Justin]

Originally Posted by _Stevie_

Found out another thing... Scrubbing actually works smoothly, as long as you don't scrub too fast. When you scrub too fast, it gets jittery.

When you stop scrubbing does it catch up eventually?

[_Stevie_]

Yep, with a pause in between.

The timecode you see is "burned" into the video. So this is a good indicator, if the video runs smootly. In Nuendo you can literally see every frame.

Locating in Reaper: https://www.dropbox.com/s/xat8nhyhbe...eaper.mov?dl=0
Locating in Nuendo: https://www.dropbox.com/s/v1b7c1w2d0...uendo.mov?dl=0

[fetidus]

Just confirming that I've experienced the same thing, Windows 10 Pro, various codecs, and by comparison to Cubase 9.5 and Pro Tools video engines, for example, the Reaper engine is definitely laggy and not as responsive. I've just grown used to it.

Would be really great if this was improved though!

I posted a thread about it several months ago:

https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=203694

[fetidus]

Originally Posted by _Stevie_

Found out another thing... Scrubbing actually works smoothly, as long as you don't scrub too fast. When you scrub too fast, it gets jittery.

Also confirmed here

[_Stevie_]

Thanks fetidus for confirming! I was already thinking that I'm the only one, since there aren't any posts about it (sorry, overlooked yours!).

And yes, it would be fantastic, if there was room for improvment for video!

[fetidus]

I haven't been stressing out about it, but clearly there is room for improvement! I saw another thread where Justin was helping out a film composer -- let me see if I can find it -- https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=196930 -- and that thread might have some relevancy to the larger issue of Reaper video performance too. So it's a known issue that some of us are very picky about video responsiveness. :-)

If we can get Justin and Schwa to spend some more time on this issue and at least give us some more options, I'm sure Reaper's video performance will rival the best of them.

In any case, just for the record, I've found Reaper's video engine performance to be about *average* compared to other DAWs I've tested. And by performance, I should be clear I'm NOT talking about CPU efficiency in this case. Reaper's actual video engine efficiency in terms of CPU load is pretty good.

But by video performance I mean smoothness, frame-by-frame responsiveness when navigating/scrubbing the timeline, etc... all of which are likely CPU intensive. But sometimes a user WANTS to have that kind of responsiveness and thus does not mind having a higher CPU load.

Since Reaper's design philosophy in some ways flies in the face of using up so much extra CPU load for responsiveness, maybe that's why we are where we are on this. But I think if we can persuade Justin and Schwa to give us the option of higher responsiveness, even at the expense of extra CPU load, that would be really great for a lot of people who work with video!

[_Stevie_]

Originally Posted by fetidus

I haven't been stressing out about it, but clearly there is room for improvement! I saw another thread where Justin was helping out a film composer -- let me see if I can find it -- https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=196930 -- and that thread might have some relevancy to the larger issue of Reaper video performance too. So it's a known issue that some of us are very picky about video responsiveness. :-)

Yep, read that one as well. And kudos to Justin for not giving up on that issue!
The video engine in Reaper is not bad at all. When locating/scrubbing slowly, it runs very smooth. I suspect, when locating very fast, Reaper tries to catch every frame instead of skipping some. But that's just my amateurish blah blah

[fetidus]

Yeah, Justin was really willing to go the extra mile in that thread. In fact, I was kind of blown away by some of his responses.

I have been skeptical about Reaper the past, but the more I learn, the more I feel sucked into the Reaper vortex.

But let's not forget how important this issue is, even though the video engine is currently "average." I'm sure that Justin and Schwa will not be fully satisfied until their video engine is as great as their audio engine.

There really is plenty of room for improvement, and I'm hoping they'll see the intrinsic benefits of spending more time to make it run more responsively, if only as a CPU-heavier option.

[_Stevie_]

Absolutely man! Was blown away as well by Justin's attitude.

And concerning the performance improvements for the video engine:
this would attract so many more users, especially in post/film.
At the moment, I'm running Nuendo as my video machine and I'm just eagerly waiting to ditch it...

[fetidus]

Originally Posted by _Stevie_

At the moment, I'm running Nuendo as my video machine and I'm just eagerly waiting to ditch it...

It's a great feeling to ditch Steinberg! I've recently ditched Cubase, and I'm itching to ditch Pro Tools too. (I'll have to keep the licenses around for old projects and client emergencies, but Cubase is finally in the past.) What a relief. Pro Tools is more or less phased out already, but it's sort of a haunting shadow all the time due to potential client file requirements hanging over my head.

And I totally agree that the post/film market would really appreciate better video responsiveness. I think Justin would appreciate it too.

[_Stevie_]

Indeed! Cubendo became such a clumsy and bloated software...
Let's hope Justin is still considering the video improvements

[svijayrathinam]

+1 here. I have the same issue with scrubbing even on the ICC 18 versions. As others say video performance is so much better ever since the icc18 versions but it can definitely improve..

[_Stevie_]

I have made an observation...
Actually, it doesn't seem like the video engine is not fast enough.
Try locating thru the project without any video and watch the time display.
When moving fast, Reaper takes some time to update it. Usually, when the cursor stands still again.

[fetidus]

You might be on to something...

[knotar]

Did any of you guys ever find out more information regarding this? I've been looking for a way to improve this for a long time!

I gotta think that there is some work-around here.

[gandjo]

Same here! It's been a while, have there been any breakthroughs on this?