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Old 03-05-2019, 03:10 PM   #1
ChuckkH
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Default A plugin that hosts plugins.... iPlug?

Hello all.
I've only just discovered iPlug. Looks awesome, as does all of Oli's stuff.
I'm actually looking to write a plugin to open another instrument plugin, and hold several cloned instances of it (for microtonal purposes).

I'm not intending to sell it, btw, just to offer it to the microtonal community, and this will then facilitate sound generation for the microtonal sequencer I wrote. The functionality of both the plugin and host code ought to be dirt simple, as it's actually to be used inside an existing host to load an existing plugin, so only a couple of UI elements to add in between, and the juggling of plugin instances.

But my question is whether I'll be able to create the hosting part with iPlug. I don't see anything about writing hosts. I may be stuck bowing down to Steinberg!
I've been struggling to discover which way to turn to start this one, so if this is not a job for iPlug, any other recommendations would be appreciated. Cross-platform, free, in moderate C++ or Python?

Thank you!
-Chuckk
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Old 03-05-2019, 04:58 PM   #2
olilarkin
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iplug doesn't host plugins... JUCE would be an excellent choice since it has plugin hosting
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Old 03-06-2019, 04:48 AM   #3
ChuckkH
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OK.
Yes, I saw that, and I first scoffed at the licensing and privacy, but it looks like Juce it is.
Thank you!
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Old 03-06-2019, 05:09 AM   #4
Xenakios
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckkH View Post
OK.
I first scoffed at the licensing and privacy.
If you are willing to use the GPL license for your plugin, you can use JUCE with the GPL license, with which you can turn off the network analytics sending.

You could probably also implement plugin hosting for a plugin done with IPlug too, but you'd need to do it from scratch and there likely aren't many people around who could help you with that.

Loading and basic use of a VST2 plugin isn't very difficult, but getting the plugin GUI to appear and work can get a bit involved. Hosting VST3 is much more involved.

Note that if you are a new developer starting just now, you can no longer do products that are or host VST2 plugins, though...The deadline to get the Steinberg VST2 development license was in October 2018. (Doesn't matter if you use JUCE, IPlug or custom code.)
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Last edited by Xenakios; 03-06-2019 at 05:29 AM.
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Old 03-16-2019, 06:17 AM   #5
ChuckkH
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenakios View Post
If you are willing to use the GPL license for your plugin, you can use JUCE with the GPL license, with which you can turn off the network analytics sending.
https://juce.com/juce-5-privacy-policy
You cannot turn off the collection of IP addresses of your users, and you are required to make your users agree to this. This will, in reality, be limiting, as some people will prefer not to agree.
I've found a way to do what I need for now, albeit slightly roundabout, with Pure Data.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenakios View Post
Note that if you are a new developer starting just now, you can no longer do products that are or host VST2 plugins, though...The deadline to get the Steinberg VST2 development license was in October 2018. (Doesn't matter if you use JUCE, IPlug or custom code.)
Yeah, I noticed. Well, I am new to VST. As far as coding plugins, I don't mind that it has to be VST3, but it's pretty shady (or just not carefully thought-out) that future developers for the rest of time will always have a disadvantage compared to those who obtained the VST2 license before Oct 2018. No host I or any other developer or firm ever create will be able to host VST2, but FL, Logic, Reaper, Sonar, Cubase, Live, etc., etc., will always have this capacity. That's life.
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Old 03-16-2019, 09:17 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckkH View Post
https://juce.com/juce-5-privacy-policy
You cannot turn off the collection of IP addresses of your users, and you are required to make your users agree to this.
That does not apply when using the GPL license. I am not sure why that web page doesn't explicitly mention that. It is however mentioned elsewhere for example in the code generated by the Projucer.

Of course the GPL license itself may not be that attractive to developers as the full source code of the products has to be released under the GPL license.
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Last edited by Xenakios; 03-16-2019 at 09:26 AM.
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Old 03-16-2019, 02:11 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckkH View Post
but it's pretty shady (or just not carefully thought-out) that future developers for the rest of time will always have a disadvantage compared to those who obtained the VST2 license before Oct 2018.
Shady, frustrating and annoying for sure, but very carefully thought out. They know the developers whom this concerns can't realistically do anything about it.
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Old 03-21-2019, 11:53 PM   #8
ChuckkH
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenakios View Post
That does not apply when using the GPL license. I am not sure why that web page doesn't explicitly mention that. It is however mentioned elsewhere for example in the code generated by the Projucer.

Of course the GPL license itself may not be that attractive to developers as the full source code of the products has to be released under the GPL license.
I am specifically aiming for GPL, so no worries for me. But, respectfully, I think you should look again. That is the official privacy policy for Juce 5, and it says the exact opposite: "You may opt out of this tracking when you purchase a "JUCE Indie" or "JUCE Pro" license.
Which is also logical: if you don't want your users to be tracked, you pay.
I work with a group of fairly eclectic types (microtonal musicians) and I would fully expect a large number of them to be spooked by this requirement. They're accustomed to having to use fairly complex procedures to produce music, so I don't expect them to just click through out of convenience and curiosity.
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Old 03-22-2019, 04:36 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckkH View Post
I am specifically aiming for GPL, so no worries for me. But, respectfully, I think you should look again. That is the official privacy policy for Juce 5, and it says the exact opposite: "You may opt out of this tracking when you purchase a "JUCE Indie" or "JUCE Pro" license.
From the code generated by the Projucer from a project of mine that has been set to use the GPL license :
Code:
/*
  ==============================================================================

   In accordance with the terms of the JUCE 5 End-Use License Agreement, the
   JUCE Code in SECTION A cannot be removed, changed or otherwise rendered
   ineffective unless you have a JUCE Indie or Pro license, or are using JUCE
   under the GPL v3 license.

   End User License Agreement: www.juce.com/juce-5-licence

  ==============================================================================
*/

// BEGIN SECTION A

#ifndef JUCE_DISPLAY_SPLASH_SCREEN
 #define JUCE_DISPLAY_SPLASH_SCREEN 0
#endif

#ifndef JUCE_REPORT_APP_USAGE
 #define JUCE_REPORT_APP_USAGE 0
#endif

// END SECTION A
When those defines are 0, the code will not have the Juce splash screen and network app usage reporting portions enabled. Why would they generate code that was in disagreement with their policies?

This must be a case where the writer of the privacy policy web page wasn't up to date about the GPL licensing option. I posted a topic on their forum about this.

edit : It was confirmed by an admin of the Juce forum it is an oversight the GPL license isn't also mentioned as an exception in the privacy policy.
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Last edited by Xenakios; 03-22-2019 at 05:11 AM.
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Old 03-22-2019, 10:00 AM   #10
ChuckkH
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Thank you very much for looking into this, Xenakios, that is great!
I honestly never even tried the Projucer. The privacy agreement just to install it was enough to make me hesitate. If the end product really is clear of any info collecting, I'll put up with it.
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Old 03-22-2019, 10:07 AM   #11
Xenakios
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckkH View Post
I honestly never even tried the Projucer. The privacy agreement just to install it was enough to make me hesitate.
I haven't installed Projucer in years, I've built it from the source code with the GPL option enabled. That's pretty simple, just change the AppConfig.h file of Projucer to enable GPL and open the provided Visual Studio or Xcode solution to build it.
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Old 03-30-2019, 05:56 PM   #12
Qrchack
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Originally Posted by Xenakios View Post
Of course the GPL license itself may not be that attractive to developers as the full source code of the products has to be released under the GPL license.
Not that big of a deal, Linux is GPL, yet phone and router makers actively refuse to provide source code. GPL doesn't force you to make the thing free for everyone or even put the source for everyone to download, you're free to sell binaries and provide source code only upon request. It could quite possibly be legal to include way less than the full project ready to compile so people would have to piece things together to get a working build.
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