Old 05-11-2019, 01:03 PM   #121
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Just because I don't openly complain as though I'm owed special treatment doesn't mean I don't have criticisms. If you knew me at all, you'd know that.

But I guess I'm expected to be on some Facebook group to whinge about a theme which I can choose to use or not, among countless other themes available for Reaper (or that I can edit or make my own for that matter). Yeah that makes sense. That sounds so productive! See you there!
No no silly I don't mean fb I don't use fb. Kinda just meant here in the forums.
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Old 05-11-2019, 01:13 PM   #122
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No no silly I don't mean fb I don't use fb. Kinda just meant here in the forums.
I've reported bugs, made feature requests, and had discussions about things that could be improved. I try to be civil, that's all. I don't always succeed, but I try.

I don't see a point in insisting changes be made just for my sake, or that "everyone else will want what I'm saying is important in Reaper" (which is almost always a lie, for the person to make his case to get what he wants). I don't want to make insults about Reaper, the devs, or its users who don't want the things that I want in Reaper. I usually just state my case, and let that 2c be what it's worth. Anything else is pointless. The devs know a vocal minority doesn't represent the entire user base. Being the kind of person that continually stamps his feet making demands isn't going to help, because the devs see them for what they are. If I can see them for what they are, and I haven't been here nearly as long as the devs, I'm sure they see it. It gets pretty easy to spot the same few user names over and over.

You'll also notice I didn't claim this alpha version 6 theme is perfect. It just happens to be the best match for me out of all the themes I've tried...and I'm going to edit it. Maybe it won't need as much editing for my tastes when it's complete, so I'm just waiting. I did already change colors in the MIDI editor though (the kind of thing you can do in the theme tweaker, and save separately).
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Old 05-11-2019, 01:17 PM   #123
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No thanks. I like what WT is doing, except a few things I'm going to edit
Pretty sure thats whats going to come out of the group too, a nitpicky edition
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Old 05-11-2019, 01:18 PM   #124
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But I guess I'm expected to be on some Facebook group to whinge about a theme which I can choose to use or not, among countless other themes available for Reaper (or that I can edit or make my own for that matter). Yeah that makes sense. That sounds so productive! See you there!
I dont know how you read any of that strawman into any of this. Nobody involved said anything of the kind
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Old 05-11-2019, 01:25 PM   #125
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Pretty sure thats whats going to come out of the group too, a nitpicky edition
I'll still end up with my own. I'd downloaded Lokasenna's nitpicky 5 when he first made it, because I found a couple things about default 5 that I wanted edited and I found his changes were close enough. I used it for a while. Eventually I realized the kinds of things I wanted changed were relatively easy to do, and that what I thought was important were things most others didn't find important (or specifically wanted different).

I don't expect anyone will want what I will do to the theme. If they do, I'll put it on the Stash. Or I'll see what others come up with, maybe edit one of those. I just don't see too much point editing the theme as it stands, since some of it is probably going to change.

I'd thought the FB group's purpose was going to be creating a new theme that works with the recent additions to the theme code, a new user-created theme that takes advantages of what version 6 will bring. I was curious about that. It turns out that's not the case though.

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I dont know how you read any of that strawman into any of this. Nobody involved said anything of the kind
It's no strawman, and it's also not a comment aimed at you. It was based on what lowellben was saying to me, mocking me for not wanting to criticize the alpha version 6 default theme. It was a tongue-in-cheek sort of response to that attitude aimed at me.
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Old 05-11-2019, 01:51 PM   #126
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It's no strawman, and it's also not a comment aimed at you. It was based on what lowellben was saying to me, mocking me for not wanting to criticize the alpha version 6 default theme. It was a tongue-in-cheek sort of response to that attitude aimed at me.
Dude. Nobody mocked you lol. I was commenting on your "positive always" attitude with Reaper and sincerely wondered if you ever bitch about anything. Bug reports don't count lol. Anyways, I'm done now. Asked and answered. I think I did nothing wrong here and you answered it fine mmthanks
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Old 05-11-2019, 01:52 PM   #127
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Dude. Nobody mocked you lol. I was commenting on your "positive always" attitude with Reaper and sincerely wondered if you ever bitch about anything. Bug reports don't count lol. Anyways, I'm done now. Asked and answered. I think I did nothing wrong here and you answered it fine mmthanks
Right. There was no mocking tone at all. Just like this post that I'm quoting.
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Old 05-11-2019, 01:54 PM   #128
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Right. There was no mocking tone at all. Just like this post that I'm quoting.
Correct.
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Old 05-11-2019, 09:36 PM   #129
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i don't like any of the default themes

lucky there are a million others on stash and i can edit them
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Originally Posted by vitalker View Post
Why so?
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i dont like the look of them!

i have no useful feedback! just preference that has been picked up over the last 20 years of hosts i have used and old eyes! lol

i use a customised RADO V4 Basic theme

Subz
Sorry for not reading the whole thread and yet (ignorantly) chiming in.
These above posts from right the beginning of this thread say a lot (to me).

What I don't want to do is to denigrate White Tie's work. You just have to take a look at his overwhelmingly great WT_imperial theme to see what a genius he is (and as a sidenote: what a great program Reaper is to allow all this).

But: (And this hasn't anything to do with White Tie and his work at all!) I over the years more and more came to the conclusion that default themes or GUIs, no matter which brand or (DAW) software it is, designers seem to tend to create user interfaces as ugly as possible, so nobody can be really pleased with them in the end. And the ones that are, mostly don't even spend a lot of thought into that sort of thing. At least there are enough people who don't even care. So what? Yes, I'm aware that such statements might come across rather arrogant, but that's not my intention at all. It's just that a nice looking GUI to me is an important aspect to feel comfortable with the software I'm working with. And there is no default theme of Reaper, that even made me think of using it. The new one included.
I still remember some Cubase version (dunno which one it was) where the only way to modify their ugly UI was to change the light blue slightly to an even lighter blue in a very limited range. Applause and cheers!

Even the graphical interfaces of Win 8, 8.1 (the rejected 9) and 10 are horrible to me. What's the use of an interface that looks like the one of an old Atari ST, just with a few colors one even can't change (if ever) without digging deep into system interna. Is this progress? I severely doubt. It's new dispassion, nothing else.
My 2 cents.

I am with Subz here.
It's great to have a great variety of themes to choose from and tweak them to your own needs and that, at all, it is possible to do so in Reaper, compared to most other software.


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Old 05-12-2019, 03:20 AM   #130
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Its great to have a variety of themes but much greater to be able to easily customize them.
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Old 05-12-2019, 09:14 AM   #131
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Just doing a mockup of what ever New creation you have in mind straight in GIMP or what ever, does not take five minutes either.
Something rewarding in making something personal though.
I was hoping R6 would have a knobstacked pan though though uhuhg-glögg, dat thin line needs spanking
Reason: Because - we - can
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Old 05-12-2019, 09:37 AM   #132
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Its great to have a variety of themes but much greater to be able to easily customize them.
Agreed again!
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Old 05-12-2019, 10:55 AM   #133
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I over the years more and more came to the conclusion that default themes or GUIs, no matter which brand or (DAW) software it is, designers seem to tend to create user interfaces as ugly as possible, ...
Wooohaaa - your requirements seem to be exorbitant!

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Even the graphical interfaces of Win 8, 8.1 (the rejected 9) and 10 are horrible to me. What's the use of an interface that looks like the one of an old Atari ST, ...
I found the old Atari-ST-looks to be very nice.

Generally here seem to be "GUI-sensitive user" and "work-centered user".
For the "work-centered user" almost every GUI is ok - and these work-centered
musicians become accustomed to it, only if the workflow is effective and
fluent.
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Old 05-12-2019, 06:03 PM   #134
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Wooohaaa - your requirements seem to be exorbitant!

I found the old Atari-ST-looks to be very nice.
Yes, the Atari looked good at its time, so did the Amiga, but that's about 30 years ago now and IMHO it's not a good idea to take achievements away and make things less configurable when they could be done earlier already. Oh yes, they made a real hype out of 'Aero' when Vista came out and now with the current Windows 10 their great invention was 'Cortana'. But what's the real use of this crap? I don't get it.

Don't think that my requirements are that high. Individual maybe, but not exorbitant.
And yet, if they were, these requirements arose from capabilities that were existent before and why (referring to Windows configurability) are they cut now? I'd call this regression, not progress, at least in this area.

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Generally here seem to be "GUI-sensitive user" and "work-centered user".
For the "work-centered user" almost every GUI is ok - and these work-centered
musicians become accustomed to it, only if the workflow is effective and
fluent.
Being "work-centered" and "GUI-sensitive" doesn't rule out each other.
I can assure you that I am a "work-centered user", but enjoyable, comfortable surroundings are more inspiring and help to stimulate creativity.
For instance, where would it be more fun and more inspiring for you, as a musician, an artist, to record your music?
In a studio that makes you feel like you're in an office where every minute counts or in a studio that has a touch of 'cosiness', personality and makes you feel at least a bit like being home from home when you're in there?

-Data
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Old 05-12-2019, 06:27 PM   #135
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Forget creativity even, I want to be able to see my gridlines and text, know which items are selected, know which tracks are selected and know what area of the timeline is selected

Thats my minimum
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Old 05-12-2019, 07:15 PM   #136
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Forget creativity even, I want to be able to see my gridlines and text, know which items are selected, know which tracks are selected and know what area of the timeline is selected

Thats my minimum
And why not have all this without neglecting creativity and hence feel comfortable?
I, for instance, have it set up the way I can see all this.
And why stick with the minimum?

But YMMV.

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Old 05-12-2019, 08:39 PM   #137
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And why not have all this without neglecting creativity and hence feel comfortable?
I, for instance, have it set up the way I can see all this.
And why stick with the minimum?

But YMMV.

-Data
Nobody should have to tweak the theme just to see all of the information being presented. Showing more information/controls, yes, but we're talking about things that are right there and effectively invisible to a decent number of people.
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Old 05-12-2019, 10:32 PM   #138
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I'm more experienced creating themes in reaper than winamp, but whatever they did back then (15 years ago?) seemed to inspire a huge amount of designers. Not sure how involved Justin was in that, but obviously it's not like what people want isn't possible, it's just not as important as video feature #4124398
Now I understand why Reaper is so often criticized about UI.
Devs are stuck with winamp. No matter what they do with UI - result is winamp.
All that complicated, overengeneered WALTER/scripting thing allows to do only one thing - variations of winamp.
On the optimistic side, if users will continue making too much noise about UI devs may listen and change something...
For example create another programming language to make even more variations of winamp.

Btw, those fancy skins didn't help winamp to retain popularity. History may repeat with Reaper too.
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Old 05-12-2019, 11:56 PM   #139
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And as jrengmusic pointed out, the more difficult part of theming is not to do with scripting, but rather, the actual design work itself. No matter how easy the framework is, that won't make the average Reaper user into a better graphic/UI designer. All it would do is make it so that the stash is flooded with a higher percentage of amateur/garbage themes since the bar of entry will be lowered substantially. So even if you have a fancy GUI for editing themes easily, it's still going to take you many hours of actual design work, testing, fixes, tweaking, etc to develop a good theme. There aren't really any shortcuts for that.
yeah, i agree too, the hard and time-consuming part is design and drawing pictures.

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Now I understand why Reaper is so often criticized about UI.
Devs are stuck with winamp. No matter what they do with UI - result is winamp.
All that complicated, overengeneered WALTER/scripting thing allows to do only one thing - variations of winamp.
On the optimistic side, if users will continue making too much noise about UI devs may listen and change something...
For example create another programming language to make even more variations of winamp.

Btw, those fancy skins didn't help winamp to retain popularity. History may repeat with Reaper too.
themes default 5 and default 6 look pretty ok to me, maybe worse than half of other DAWs and better than other half of DAWs, default 5 was "too default" for my taste, default 6 has a bit more character, but needs some work yet, but they are pretty ok . I'm not talking about different windows and blablabla, yes, they are outdated. Other DAWs do not allow to create even variations of calculator

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Old 05-13-2019, 12:07 AM   #140
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Nobody should have to tweak the theme just to see all of the information being presented. Showing more information/controls, yes, but we're talking about things that are right there and effectively invisible to a decent number of people.
But nobody needs to. The default themes are usable (as ugly as they are imho) and give all the information one needs to have. And if they don't it's just a plus that you can change them, which most other DAWs don't offer and with those DAWs, it is as less guaranteed as it is with Reaper, that you have all the information you need at a glance.

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Now I understand why Reaper is so often criticized about UI.
Devs are stuck with winamp. No matter what they do with UI - result is winamp.
All that complicated, overengeneered WALTER/scripting thing allows to do only one thing - variations of winamp.
On the optimistic side, if users will continue making too much noise about UI devs may listen and change something...
For example create another programming language to make even more variations of winamp.

Btw, those fancy skins didn't help winamp to retain popularity. History may repeat with Reaper too.
This is something I really doubt, because there has always been a certain continuity in the way Reaper evolved. E.g. you are still able to load projects from Reaper v1.xx, whereas file formats for Cubase projects for example were changed and at some point there was neither a way to import or load old projects nor was there a program to convert them.

Secondly, I also doubt, that a DAW, be it Reaper, Protools or whatnot gains or loses popularity because of its skin.

Many of the features Reaper offers were induced by users.
So, if you don't need e.g. theming, spectral editing, automation, MIDI or notation editing or whatever, just leave it alone. It's there for people who need and want it and the fact that many people use all these things speaks for itself.


-Data
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Old 05-13-2019, 02:10 AM   #141
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Is the glass half empty or half full? Which options to transform completely the default theme are available in the rest of the daws or any kind of big software such as MS Office or Photoshop? ...

We don't have to like the Reaper Default themes, as I said I don't, we have lots of themes that work well with different aesthetics and functionality, some of them copied from other daws.

Anyway, if you don't find anything useful for you in the stash ... is it easy to tweak the default theme?

Depends on what you want to do and the time you invest, but I have been able to get my own theme without understanding walter or the documentation itself, just modifying numbers (Trial and error method) and stealing code and images here and there. If I have been able to do it, everybody can do it ... and remember there are lots of people, including WT, helping out in the Theming forum. To me, the glass is half full in this matter and I think that CHANGES IN THE GUI (not the Default theme) should be the priority, just my thoughts.


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Old 05-13-2019, 02:12 AM   #142
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If new users knew we had a Star Trek theme, oboy, game over.
I would not mind if we got a whole thread with only pictures of ideas that never made it to a theme because of WALTER or what ever, ideas are cool and under'thingie'd, idea is the first step anyway unless you are Tarzan.
Ps, Tarzan just sounds funny, nothing personal, ok? *puh*
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Old 05-13-2019, 04:56 AM   #143
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I dont like cuz:
- scalability, once again, when resizing track size, all buttons unregularry change
- folder, parents children view could be clearer
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Old 05-13-2019, 05:19 AM   #144
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I dont like cuz:
- scalability, once again, when resizing track size, all buttons unregularry change
- folder, parents children view could be clearer
White Tie have posted a new version of the Reaper 6 theme,and need feedback on the scalability in this new version
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Old 05-13-2019, 06:07 AM   #145
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But nobody needs to. The default themes are usable (as ugly as they are imho) and give all the information one needs to have. And if they don't it's just a plus that you can change them, which most other DAWs don't offer and with those DAWs, it is as less guaranteed as it is with Reaper, that you have all the information you need at a glance.
The V6 theme being tested right now is not usable, in the sense that I - and others - basically can't see parts of it. Information you can't see might as well not be there.
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Old 05-13-2019, 07:22 AM   #146
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I dont like cuz:
- scalability, once again, when resizing track size, all buttons unregularry change
- folder, parents children view could be clearer
Those are big ones for me and why I tend to go with another theme or create my own. I don't get why people like buttons/meters on the TCP that are all not aligned... just makes for very messy/unorganized look. It's pretty easy to fix it in WALTER so things stay aligned... maybe WT needs help with that (but I'm scared to talk with him)
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Old 05-13-2019, 10:33 AM   #147
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But nobody needs to. The default themes are usable (as ugly as they are imho) and give all the information one needs to have.
-Data
No they don’t, that’s the issue. On this default, you can’t see gridlines or text on selected items for instance. On default 5 you can’t see peak hold numbers on the TCP when setting levels unless you switch to another layout where you lose a lot of the other visual information you need
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Old 05-13-2019, 11:42 AM   #148
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Funny reading this thread and the other one started by WT.

I seem to have the exact opposite impression than everyone else. I think up until V4, the default theme was very ergonomic and functional. But since V5 the main goal seems to be to make the theme look good in screenshots (and it does, the screenshot on the Reaper homepage looks great!), but the theme itself is (at least for me, but also for many others from what I read) not very usable in practice.

I wish WT would refocus again on function over form.
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Old 05-13-2019, 11:45 AM   #149
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Couldn't agree more.
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Old 05-13-2019, 12:57 PM   #150
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If new users knew we had a Star Trek theme, oboy, game over.
I'd pay double if we had the Lcars interface from TNG. :P
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Old 05-13-2019, 04:24 PM   #151
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You mean something like the Engage theme?
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=84932
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Old 05-13-2019, 05:13 PM   #152
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Originally Posted by pipelineaudio View Post
No they don’t, that’s the issue. On this default, you can’t see gridlines or text on selected items for instance. On default 5 you can’t see peak hold numbers on the TCP when setting levels unless you switch to another layout where you lose a lot of the other visual information you need
I hear you. But first of all we mustn't forget that the v6 theme is still under construction. Secondly I have no reason to distrust you, talking about the v5 theme; I didn't like it, so I didn't use it and hence can't say anything about it.

My original point was just that in my humble opinion, which I don't claim to be a measurement for others, most of these top DAWs (also Reaper) have default UIs that look dreadful to me. But the upside is that at least you can change most things that annoy you which you can't with most other DAWs.
I'm not saying that it's nice to take the hassle to do this, I just say, If there's something you're not willing to cope with, you can change it (in most cases) in Reaper. It's often just a matter of weighing: "Can I take this or is it too disturbing to me so I need to take the pain to change it myself?"
The default settings of Reaper stood in my way of doing things more than once, I can assure you, but often enough, when trying to put a problem out of my way, I discovered things that annoyed me somehow as well, but weren't too important to deal with, but I could change them in the same run as my main problem. And I hardly ever came to a limit when trying to personalize Reaper to my own needs. And in daily work I have never regretted having invested the time beforehand.
On the other hand, if you work with a DAW that has some annoying traits, you can't change and therefore you resent working with it, you can either obey frustrated or ditch it (also frustrated).

Reaper at least allows you in nearly all circumstances to find a solution even if it might take some time and trouble.

(And writing that, I'm happily expecting being scolded as a fanboy. Bruuharrharr!)


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Old 05-13-2019, 05:14 PM   #153
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The latest cubase looks sweet to me and I'm not even a flat style fan but I would use that one.
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Old 05-13-2019, 06:23 PM   #154
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Yes, It's somewhat the same with me.
I probably won't use 'newer' versions of Cubase and be it only because of their arrogant way, they deal with customers, 'cos of still being one of the top brands (I've had my experiences with them and I don't need this anymore!)

In comparison of what you wrote, I always found that blue is a rather cold color, but I am using the great analog api theme by Pyerbass, which I have modified a lot to fit my needs and taste.
So, not being a flat style fan and not really liking blue as a main color of a user interface has some parallels.


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Old 05-13-2019, 08:13 PM   #155
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Originally Posted by fladd View Post
I wish WT would refocus again on function over form.
WT doesn't really design the UI, that comes from Cockos. A theme is really more like makeup... can't really change the underlying problems

I think what will help most is for people to identify what would be the best alternate for the default, instead of trying to change it. It's frustrating to know there are many great themes and themers, but its all buried in the stash. A good alternate, that is included in REAPER install, would be much appreciated IMO
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Old 05-14-2019, 12:34 AM   #156
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Yes, but the question is which alternative is good for whom?
The one that might be good for you could be good for me as well, but even it might be not.
So, since everybody has different preferences (s)he might have to take the pain to dig through the stash.

At least there has to be a default theme that gets loaded when Reaper is started.


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Old 05-14-2019, 02:26 AM   #157
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WT doesn't really design the UI, that comes from Cockos. A theme is really more like makeup... can't really change the underlying problems
I was purely talking about the theme. Design can (and should be) functional, too. It's about visibility and accessibility.
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Old 05-17-2019, 03:45 PM   #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xpander View Post
You mean something like the Engage theme?
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=84932
That would be the one thanks for linking, I should have maby when I re-think (bad SmajjL) *slap!*
And Herr Nox is now happy?
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Old 05-20-2019, 09:23 PM   #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmajjL View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by xpander View Post
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Originally Posted by Herr Nox View Post
I'd pay double if we had the Lcars interface from TNG. :P
You mean something like the Engage theme?
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=84932
That would be the one thanks for linking, I should have maby when I re-think (bad SmajjL) *slap!*
And Herr Nox is now happy?
Well, that's the one I'm quite familiar with, sitting side by side with Geordie, Wesley and Worf years ago serving in Starfleet under Cpt. Picard.


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Old 05-21-2019, 07:40 PM   #160
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Originally Posted by Mr. Data View Post
At least there has to be a default theme that gets loaded when Reaper is started.
Aah, I forgot:
Try to load Reaper without having the ColorTheme folder in 'Roaming\REAPER' at all.
Maybe that's the solution to some.

-Data
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