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Old 05-22-2019, 12:26 AM   #1
Rshwin
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Default So... how much acid did the author of your user's maual take??

Here on page 121(of the owners manual) it states many of the "basic editing tasks that you will be using in Reaper involve the use of fairly intuitive standard Windows procedures for selecting and manipulating items." Now I've used Windows since 1989 Win 2.0.1 and I still can't get this app to do a simple copy and paste. I've now read 123 pages of text watched all of the videos on the web site and followed the instructions meticulously, yet my results did not match their video's results. And what the hell is meant by "item/tracks/envelope points (within or outside of time selection)? It would be nice if they included a definition as to what that was someplace... don't you think?
I think it would be best if they made a version specifically for those who play real instruments, and then one for those who buy ?? surface what...?? buttons on a pad, that do what?? I spent years studying music... going to band camp every summer, taking lessons on the side ... passed solos with Cat Anderson at the age of 15 in front of thousands of people... wrote software in Cobol, Basic, QBasic, Visual Basic, C++ and find this so wretchedly thought out, there is no way anyone should ever have to pay for something like this, so poorly conceived, it astounds the mind. Leave it to the Brits to cluster #AA%$@ anything, including their own country. The title for Chapter 7 (starting on pg 119) is "Editing Tracks And Items"... yet within nearly every stanza of text concerning performing an action/edit it claims .... get this... more on actually how to do this in Chapter 15... the one labeled "Customization, Actions, Mouse Modifiers, Menus and Toolbars" What?????????? The hell .... you put Item Track Editing info in the "Item Track Editing" chapter, period!!!!You don't make people have to jump 8 Chapters ahead to read two sentences that pertain to the process described, 8 chapters back, in order to make sense of one action... How long has LSD been re-legalized in the UK anyways??? Or do you really not want serious people, on a time frame, to actually put up the money to buy this program?? I can't wait til I get to the part where I try to get a set of Alesis Nitro E-Drums to record to a separate track for each separate drum, via a Midi cable.
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Old 05-22-2019, 01:51 AM   #2
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I found Reaper's editing to be perhaps the least intuitive (after its Takes system) and even Kenny somewhere admits it's not entirely straightforward to do seemingly simple tasks but this post seems a bit intemperate. The fact is that Reaper is inevitably complex cos it is able to do complex tasks that are at times approached different to other DAWs.
I too have followed one or two of Kenny's videos and things haven't worked out but in each case it's been my error somewhere. The manual actually does a splendid job but again it is trying to be both accessible and comprehensive so maybe indeed there are areas where it could be edited to improve it - I am sure Geoffrey Francis would be open to positive suggestions.
It may be that REAPER is not a good fit for you - in my own despite being familiar with half a dozen DAWS including REASON, CUBASE, Audition etc. I just cannot get my head around Ableton for some reason.
And as for Britain being " #AA%$@"ed up, as a UK resident I totally agree but would point out that from my point of view other countries (the US included) are perhaps undergoing similar "interesting times".
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Old 05-22-2019, 03:51 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rshwin View Post
Here on page 121(of the owners manual) it states many of the "basic editing tasks that you will be using in Reaper involve the use of fairly intuitive standard Windows procedures for selecting and manipulating items." Now I've used Windows since 1989 Win 2.0.1 and I still can't get this app to do a simple copy and paste. I've now read 123 pages of text watched all of the videos on the web site and followed the instructions meticulously, yet my results did not match their video's results. And what the hell is meant by "item/tracks/envelope points (within or outside of time selection)? It would be nice if they included a definition as to what that was someplace... don't you think?
I think it would be best if they made a version specifically for those who play real instruments, and then one for those who buy ?? surface what...?? buttons on a pad, that do what?? I spent years studying music... going to band camp every summer, taking lessons on the side ... passed solos with Cat Anderson at the age of 15 in front of thousands of people... wrote software in Cobol, Basic, QBasic, Visual Basic, C++ and find this so wretchedly thought out, there is no way anyone should ever have to pay for something like this, so poorly conceived, it astounds the mind. Leave it to the Brits to cluster #AA%$@ anything, including their own country. The title for Chapter 7 (starting on pg 119) is "Editing Tracks And Items"... yet within nearly every stanza of text concerning performing an action/edit it claims .... get this... more on actually how to do this in Chapter 15... the one labeled "Customization, Actions, Mouse Modifiers, Menus and Toolbars" What?????????? The hell .... you put Item Track Editing info in the "Item Track Editing" chapter, period!!!!You don't make people have to jump 8 Chapters ahead to read two sentences that pertain to the process described, 8 chapters back, in order to make sense of one action... How long has LSD been re-legalized in the UK anyways??? Or do you really not want serious people, on a time frame, to actually put up the money to buy this program?? I can't wait til I get to the part where I try to get a set of Alesis Nitro E-Drums to record to a separate track for each separate drum, via a Midi cable.
Try some carriage returns in that huge block of verbal vomit. Entitled little 4 posts snowflake.
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Old 05-22-2019, 06:30 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rshwin View Post
Here on page 121(of the owners manual) it states many of the "basic editing tasks that you will be using in Reaper involve the use of fairly intuitive standard Windows procedures for selecting and manipulating items." Now I've used Windows since 1989 Win 2.0.1 and I still can't get this app to do a simple copy and paste.
Ctrl+C and Ctrl+V, covered in section 7.4, have been standard Windows procedures since I started using Windows 3.1.

You've also got, on the second page of chapter 7:
Copy item or selection of items --> Ctrl drag and drop.

Quote:
And what the hell is meant by "item/tracks/envelope points (within or outside of time selection)? It would be nice if they included a definition as to what that was someplace... don't you think?
I agree that Reaper tends to lean to the side of being a little too technical in its wording. If you mean actions like "Edit: Copy items/tracks/envelope points (depending on focus) within time selection, if any (smart copy)", that's their way of telling you that it's context-specific - if you have an item selected, it copies items, if you have tracks selected it copies tracks, etc - and only copies portions of items or envelopes within the range of time you've selected.

Quote:
I think it would be best if they made a version specifically for those who play real instruments
Tracktion is specifically intended to be usable by everyday musicians. You may wish to have a look at that instead.

Quote:
The title for Chapter 7 (starting on pg 119) is "Editing Tracks And Items"... yet within nearly every stanza of text concerning performing an action/edit it claims .... get this... more on actually how to do this in Chapter 15... the one labeled "Customization, Actions, Mouse Modifiers, Menus and Toolbars"
Redundant, yes, but that's because Reaper lets you customize almost everything.

Quote:
I can't wait til I get to the part where I try to get a set of Alesis Nitro E-Drums to record to a separate track for each separate drum, via a Midi cable.
Can your e-drums send a different MIDI channel per drum? If so, it's just a matter of setting each track's record input to MIDI - Channel 4, etc.
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Old 05-22-2019, 06:58 AM   #5
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1. The author can spell correctly (if you don't mind American spelling).

2. He knows the basics of using paragraphs.

3. He is not a Brit, does not live in the UK.

4. The User Guide may not be perfect, but I defy anyone to do a better job.


But you're welcome to try, however you'd better learn how to do your research.
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Old 05-22-2019, 07:20 AM   #6
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I don't recommend reading the Reaper manual on acid but YMMV.
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Old 05-22-2019, 08:33 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lokasenna View Post
Can your e-drums send a different MIDI channel per drum? If so, it's just a matter of setting each track's record input to MIDI - Channel 4, etc.
and if not, it's no real problem to record on one MIDI channel and split them afterwards (by note )
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Old 05-22-2019, 09:54 AM   #8
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If the manual was written on Acid, this OP was written on Rubber Cement Fumes.
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Old 05-22-2019, 11:00 AM   #9
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wouldn't recommend judging people by their writing either.
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Old 05-22-2019, 09:00 PM   #10
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If the manual was written on acid, then Geoffrey Francis is actually Dock Ellis on June 12, 1970.
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Old 05-22-2019, 09:06 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by domzy View Post
and if not, it's no real problem to record on one MIDI channel and split them afterwards (by note )
Actually as a newcomer, I discovered today that if you enable Free Item Positioning, you can just hit record and each pass will get its own self-contained object. Totally cool! I often quantize kick/snare but leave percussion alone and this makes that 10x easier.
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Old 05-23-2019, 12:22 AM   #12
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HA!
I copy / paste heaps in Reaper?

I did not bother reading the rest.

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Old 05-23-2019, 12:26 AM   #13
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Rshwin,
Perhaps you could place a copy of the reaper manual you wrote for
everybody to critique?
Heck do you even have any idea of how much work is in a book let alone a manual?

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Old 05-23-2019, 03:40 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rshwin View Post
Here on page 121(of the owners manual) it states many of the "basic editing tasks that you will be using in Reaper involve the use of fairly intuitive standard Windows procedures for selecting and manipulating items." Now I've used Windows since 1989 Win 2.0.1 and I still can't get this app to do a simple copy and paste. I've now read 123 pages of text watched all of the videos on the web site and followed the instructions meticulously, yet my results did not match their video's results. And what the hell is meant by "item/tracks/envelope points (within or outside of time selection)? It would be nice if they included a definition as to what that was someplace... don't you think?
I think it would be best if they made a version specifically for those who play real instruments, and then one for those who buy ?? surface what...?? buttons on a pad, that do what?? I spent years studying music... going to band camp every summer, taking lessons on the side ... passed solos with Cat Anderson at the age of 15 in front of thousands of people... wrote software in Cobol, Basic, QBasic, Visual Basic, C++ and find this so wretchedly thought out, there is no way anyone should ever have to pay for something like this, so poorly conceived, it astounds the mind. Leave it to the Brits to cluster #AA%$@ anything, including their own country. The title for Chapter 7 (starting on pg 119) is "Editing Tracks And Items"... yet within nearly every stanza of text concerning performing an action/edit it claims .... get this... more on actually how to do this in Chapter 15... the one labeled "Customization, Actions, Mouse Modifiers, Menus and Toolbars" What?????????? The hell .... you put Item Track Editing info in the "Item Track Editing" chapter, period!!!!You don't make people have to jump 8 Chapters ahead to read two sentences that pertain to the process described, 8 chapters back, in order to make sense of one action... How long has LSD been re-legalized in the UK anyways??? Or do you really not want serious people, on a time frame, to actually put up the money to buy this program?? I can't wait til I get to the part where I try to get a set of Alesis Nitro E-Drums to record to a separate track for each separate drum, via a Midi cable.
It`s a shame you didn`t do a better job of this "critique"
It contains so many errors & is so poorly laid out that it inevitably set any regular user of reaper`s teeth on edge.
Maybe you should try again and at least get the poor author you are belabouring`s nationality right.

Ranting never gets you help.
Asking questions politely usually does.... plus of course you are admitting that, despite your self-proclaimed expertise in everything, you are unable to understand ANY of the tutorial videos available either.

But despite this and assuming your rant wasn`t a farewell one, welcome to the forums.
Maybe we can point you in the right direction after all....

On the subject of your e-kit, you need to make sure you have a full understanding of the basics of MIDI. I put a link in the Newbie section of this forum to an excellent e-booklet published by Edirol/Roland some years ago which clearly lays out how MIDI data can be streamed to 16 separate channels, which hopefully will suffice for your purposes.

If you need more help, just ask & someone on the forums will have an answer for you.
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Old 05-23-2019, 06:21 AM   #15
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Why don't you ask him - he's a regular on the forum.

Here...

HEY! Nicholas. How much acid do you do when working on the user guide?
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Old 05-23-2019, 08:27 AM   #16
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Took me 3 secs to copy paste, range select and drag to copy etc. I have no words and didn't even open the manual
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Old 05-23-2019, 08:40 AM   #17
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Reviewing all 4 of his fine posts it's clear he needs to learn to use carriage returns !!! Go ahead, hit it !

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Old 05-23-2019, 11:51 AM   #18
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Wow... You should do a YT instructional vid. for him.
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Old 05-25-2019, 06:28 AM   #19
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Playing instruments and writing software does not, in any sense, qualify you to operate a DAW. If you are not prepared to begin a multi-year journey to dig in and research and learn about recording audio, editing audio, mixing and mastering (each a huge topic of its own), you would be better served by buying studio time and letting someone else do it. IMHO, YMMV,etc.
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Old 05-25-2019, 06:47 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philbo King View Post
Playing instruments and writing software does not, in any sense, qualify you to operate a DAW. If you are not prepared to begin a multi-year journey to dig in and research and learn about recording audio, editing audio, mixing and mastering (each a huge topic of its own), you would be better served by buying studio time and letting someone else do it. IMHO, YMMV,etc.
Yup true true
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Old 05-25-2019, 11:14 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rshwin View Post
Leave it to the Brits to cluster #AA%$@ anything, including their own country.
Oi! As the sole Brit on the Cockos team, I'd like to make it very clear that ...oh no, he's right, isn't he?

Bollocks.
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Old 05-25-2019, 08:00 PM   #22
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Oi! As the sole Brit on the Cockos team, I'd like to make it very clear that ...oh no, he's right, isn't he?

Bollocks.
well WT you guys DO seem to be into some sh&t over there, ...but here in the US we certainly have our share lately....

BTW... if there is extra acid around ya'all might send some into the rest of the Euro countries
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Old 05-26-2019, 04:01 AM   #23
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well WT you guys DO seem to be into some sh&t over there, ...but here in the US we certainly have our share lately....

BTW... if there is extra acid around ya'all might send some into the rest of the Euro countries
At least they seem to have adults running their country even if things aren't working exactly the way they want
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Old 05-26-2019, 04:10 AM   #24
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What a long winded and rude way to describe user error.
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Old 05-26-2019, 04:27 AM   #25
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What a long winded and rude way to describe user error.
And then disappear into the night
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Old 05-26-2019, 10:04 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Rshwin View Post
. Leave it to the Brits to cluster #AA%$@ anything, including their own country.
Frankly I see very little diference between our politicians (UK) and yours (US). Self serving, amoral, duplicitous scumbags in it for the cash. People in glass houses comes to mind. Sadly though someone who professes extensive IT experience who can't Copy/Paste seems a bit deluded about his abilities. I suggest Band in a box....
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Old 05-26-2019, 11:23 PM   #27
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yep these days there are jerks everywhere... except at Rshwin's house
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Old 05-28-2019, 04:15 PM   #28
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If the manual was written on Acid, this OP was written on Rubber Cement Fumes.
Oh my lol
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Old 05-28-2019, 07:01 PM   #29
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If he cannot figure out Reaper, then Band in a Box would put him over the edge.

You noticed that he has never responded back.....?
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Old 05-28-2019, 10:31 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rshwin View Post
"basic editing tasks that you will be using in Reaper involve the use of fairly intuitive standard Windows procedures for selecting and manipulating items."
That is correct, yes.

Quote:
Now I've used Windows since 1989 Win 2.0.1
And your point is?

Quote:
and I still can't get this app to do a simple copy and paste.
So after 30 years of 'experience' you still have not mastered CTRL+C / CTRL+V - and you have the balls to say the manual writer is on acid??? You're a riot man.

Quote:
I think it would be best if they made a version specifically for those who play real instruments
English Translation: "I think it would be best if they made a version specifically for those who don't have much clue, and would rather smash their toys on a forum than try and learn".

Quote:
  • I spent years studying music
  • Going to band camp every summer
  • Taking lessons on the side
  • Who is Cat Anderson???
  • In front of thousands of people
  • Wrote software in Cobol, Basic, QB, VB, C++
Congratulations... Would look great in your resume.

Quote:
Leave it to the Brits to cluster #AA%$@ anything
And the guy who wrote the manual is on acid according to you huh?

Quote:
I try to get a set of Alesis Nitro E-Drums to record to a separate track for each separate drum, via a Midi cable.
Hang on, thought you were a "real instrument" player ...get off the acid man.
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Old 05-29-2019, 02:40 AM   #31
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@Rshwin

I fully understand that learning a new program as complex as REAPER can be frustrating for new users, but, please, be aware that asking questions is more likely to get you help than will hurling gratuitous insults. I am always appreciative of constructive criticism and suggestions from forum members (and over the years have taken more of these on board than I can count), but unfortunately I am struggling to find anything in your post that is helpful.

I'll just address one point, though, because it is a comment that's been made before, and that concerns the many cross-references within the document to other sections.

It's not mandatory to follow those links - feel free to ignore them. They are there because it is impossible to divide REAPER into a number of totally self-contained watertight compartments. One obvious example of this is the Project Media/FX Bay. In and of itself this has absolutely no meaning - it only makes sense in the contexts of the media explorer, FX plug-ins, item grouping, takes, etc. The document hyperlinks make it easier for those that wish to do so to jump to related topics with a single click.

Oh, and to answer your one specific question, it's approximately 30 years since I last sampled the dubious delights of LSD.
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Old 05-29-2019, 05:42 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Cranky Emu View Post
Congratulations... Would look great in your resume.

I particularly like these two together.


Quote:
Going to band camp every summer. Taking lessons on the side.
LOL.
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Old 05-29-2019, 05:51 AM   #33
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I find the Reaper User Guide to be the finest of any software docs "out there" today.

Most don't even bother
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Old 05-29-2019, 08:29 AM   #34
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I will admit it don't matter "how much acid he took" doesn't really matter...
Clearly, however much that was, he could have taken more, and I hope he will!!!! ...and to the OP... same to YOU...
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