Old 05-10-2019, 05:32 AM   #1
acebone
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Default Control VSTs w. MIDI on an audio-track?

I use amplitube as my guitar amp-sim, but it could be any plugin:

I would like to assign MIDI-controllers to the various simulated amp-controls in the Amplitube plugin, however - I can only get MIDI from my controller to Amplitube if I set the track to record MIDI-input. Of course, when I do that none of the audio-signal from the guitar is recorded.

So I wonder how I can make reaper record the audio from my guitar while it listens for MIDI to control the amplitube-plugin?

SOLUTION:

I had two problems: Ampli works slightly different than most plugins which I did not realize and I was using the VST3, and in my setup that won't work for this (it's a bug, it should work)

1: Use the VST2 version (amplitube.dll) - not the VST3 version (amplitube.vst3). The VST3 doesn't work for this (in my setup at least)


2: You can control a maximum of 16 parameters. Let's say that you wan't to control the Volume-knob. First decide which of the 16 parameter-slots you wish to use. Let's say that you choose that the volume-knob should be no. 1 of the 16 parameters. Right-click the volumen-knob in Ampli and choose the menu-item Assign Automation -> Vol -> Parameter 1. (Click the "UI" button again, to return to Amplis own interface)

3. For some reason Ampli won't always tell REAPER which knob/parameter was used last, so if that happens, click the "UI" button right next to the mix-knob, top-right part of the plugin-window (it's a reaper-button, not an Ampli-button). Ampli's interface will disappear, and instead you'll have 16 sliders. Move slider 1. Now REAPER knows which parameter was touched last.

4. Click the 'Param' button and click the menu-item "learn"

5. From there on out, everything is standard, and usual REAPER-skills apply

Last edited by acebone; 05-25-2019 at 12:48 PM.
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Old 05-10-2019, 08:25 AM   #2
domzy
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Set up a send / receive from another track, which is MIDI, to your amplitube track?
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Old 05-10-2019, 09:06 AM   #3
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Nice idea - tried it - alas no joy :/
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Old 05-11-2019, 01:23 PM   #4
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I'm not exactly sure the setup, but something about setting up control surface and then enabled automation write-mode. The midi will be recorded as envleopes while the audio is also recorded.

MIDI Controlled plugins:


Automation Write-Mode: (explains it in the first few minutes)
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Old 05-11-2019, 02:44 PM   #5
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e.g.:

[PARAM] -> Parameter List -> Parameter Midulation / Midi Link -> (VST Parameter name) -> Link from midi or FX parameter -> (none) -> Midi -> CC -> ...

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Old 05-11-2019, 09:44 PM   #6
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Disable master/parent send on your guitar track and send it to a new track.
Move Amplitube to the new track and set the new track to monitor/record MIDI.
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Old 05-12-2019, 02:50 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acebone View Post
So I wonder how I can make reaper record the audio from my guitar while it listens for MIDI to control the amplitube-plugin?
IMHO, this only makes sense, if you also want to listen to this sound (Otherwise it's more appropriate top record as well the raw guitar signal and the Midi data stream.)

Hence this might be a "Live" setup and you might want to take a look at the introductional thread in the "Live" subforum.

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Old 05-12-2019, 07:26 AM   #8
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"IMHO, this only makes sense, if you also want to listen to this sound"

Yes that's right, I want to monitor what I am playing while recording.

The problem seems to be that my Amplitube does not respond to Reapers control-changes - other plugins work like they should.

I'm using the VST3 version of Amplitube, and I've noticed that not all VST3 plugins behave in Reaper. I'll try using the VST2 dll instead and see if it works better.

I'll check back with my results
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Old 05-12-2019, 02:49 PM   #9
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I don't have Amplitube, so I can't help, but regarding parameter modulation all (correctly done) pugins should work identically.

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Old 05-12-2019, 04:58 PM   #10
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too bad the OP evaporated... cuz there are workable answers here with parameter modulation...

also with a second track just sending midi to the first track...

funny how people have some desperate need\question but no time to get the answers.... LoL
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Old 05-17-2019, 01:52 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hopi View Post
too bad the OP evaporated... cuz there are workable answers here with parameter modulation...

also with a second track just sending midi to the first track...

funny how people have some desperate need\question but no time to get the answers.... LoL
I'm not evaporated?

Fact is that I'm not able to get the thing to work, even with the otherwise workable suggestions in this thread.

I'm running Reaper in wine on linux, and as stated, I've noticed that VST3s doesn't always work 100% for me, and right now I suspect (based on the fact that nothing works, not even the thread-suggestions) that I need to "downgrade" and use the VST2 dll for amplitube. Once I get around to testing that suspicion, I'll get back here with my results.

That's not evaporation, that's just the way things are once in a while.
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Old 05-22-2019, 05:00 PM   #12
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Well no luck with the VST2 version either. The "last touched fx" is never set.
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Old 05-22-2019, 09:35 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acebone View Post
The "last touched fx" is never set.
That is not necessary for setting up automation or Midi link. In that menu, assigning automation envelopes can be doe dedicatedly to any DAW parameter of the plugin, in my first message in this thread I explained about midi link (and similar stuff).

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Old 05-24-2019, 04:14 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
That is not necessary for setting up automation or Midi link. In that menu, assigning automation envelopes can be doe dedicatedly to any DAW parameter of the plugin, in my first message in this thread I explained about midi link (and similar stuff).

-Michael

I tried your suggestion (thnx!), I can only get it to work if I set the track to record midi-input. Of course, if I do that, I won't be able to record my guitar.

All other plugins have no problems with setting the last touched control, but not Ampli - neither the *.dll or the *.vst3

I am stumped - but perhaps there is something I'm missing in your explanation? As stated: I can see it working when the track accepts midi-input, when I switch to audio-input, the midi is never received by the reaper midi-link system, and therefore it's not mapped to Ampli

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Old 05-24-2019, 05:17 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acebone View Post
I tried your suggestion (thnx!), I can only get it to work if I set the track to record midi-input. Of course, if I do that, I won't be able to record my guitar.

All other plugins have no problems with setting the last touched control, but not Ampli - neither the *.dll or the *.vst3

I am stumped - but perhaps there is something I'm missing in your explanation? As stated: I can see it working when the track accepts midi-input, when I switch to audio-input, the midi is never received by the reaper midi-link system, and therefore it's not mapped to Ampli
AmpliTube, and all IKM plugs really, don't deal with this the way others do.

Instead of also recording the MIDI, have you tried setting to monitor only for the MIDI track?
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Old 05-24-2019, 11:51 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acebone View Post
Of course, if I do that, I won't be able to record my guitar.
If you want to record as well audio as Midi you need two tracks. For playback and Live playing you can route the signal from one of them to the other to have you plugin there see both.



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Last edited by mschnell; 05-24-2019 at 12:00 PM.
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Old 05-25-2019, 04:38 AM   #17
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"If you want to record as well audio as Midi you need two tracks"

I want to record audio from my guitar. I want Amplitube to respond to my midi-footcontroller.

"Instead of also recording the MIDI, have you tried setting to monitor only for the MIDI track?"

The only way I can get Amplitube to react to the controller is if I set the record-mode to midi.
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Old 05-25-2019, 05:16 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acebone View Post
The only way I can get Amplitube to react to the controller is if I set the record-mode to midi.
AFAIK, "record-mode audio/midi" is not a term used in Reaper. Supposedly the better term would be "input" and same is set by hitting the appropriate "Input" button (showing the current track input source). Here you can select audio and Midi (in several variations). Obviously you can't select both audio and midi at the same time, and hence you need two tracks - independent of your intention to record or play "live". To bring the audio and the midi streams together, you need to do the appropriate routing.

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Old 05-25-2019, 10:59 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
AFAIK, "record-mode audio/midi" is not a term used in Reaper. Supposedly the better term would be "input" and same is set by hitting the appropriate "Input" button (showing the current track input source). Here you can select audio and Midi (in several variations). Obviously you can't select both audio and midi at the same time, and hence you need two tracks - independent of your intention to record or play "live". To bring the audio and the midi streams together, you need to do the appropriate routing.

-Michael
I'm sorry that my vocabulary isn't up to scratch. In REAPER you can tell your track to record either AUDIO or MIDI - this is apparently not called "modes", feel free to substitute the appropriate noun, the meaning should be clear in any case.

And yes - it is not possible to record midi-MUSIC and audio on the same track, however it IS possible to record midi-CONTROL-MESSAGES and audio on the very same track. In that case the midi is recorded as automation-envelopes either within the item or in an automation lane (default). This works with the majority of plug-ins, and it ought to work with Amplitube as well.

But right now I'm not even talking about recording automation, I'm talking about making automation, and thus remotecontrol, happen in the first place. I'm saying that the only way I can make the midi-control system kick in is if I set the track to record midi.

Last edited by acebone; 05-25-2019 at 12:40 PM. Reason: Edited for clarity
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Old 05-25-2019, 11:07 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acebone View Post
I tried your suggestion (thnx!), I can only get it to work if I set the track to record midi-input. Of course, if I do that, I won't be able to record my guitar.
whilst the input is set to audio and you have the MIDI routed to the FX from another track, shouldn't you have the track set to Record:Output?

edit - or maybe you didn't want to record wet, you just wanted to monitor with the plugin changing? in which case it should work if you have a MIDI track, armed to record etc. (or record: input disable if necessary) which is then sending to your gtr track, which is set up for audio input, as normal.

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Old 05-25-2019, 11:50 AM   #21
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"whilst the input is set to audio and you have the MIDI routed to the FX from another track"

I don't do that - It does not work.

There are two paths to connecting a controller to Amplitube:

1) Amplitubes own learn-midi-system. This only works if the track is set to mid-recording. That's why it's great that there is the next option:

2) REAPERS midi-learn system. This is what you're supposed to use in my case (recording audio, but controlling parameters with MIDI) - and here we have the big problem. Amplitube!

You know that you can press the "UI" button and get all the parameters as simple sliders instead of the fancy plugin-interface? Usually these sliders will have the correct name (a reverb might typically have a wet/dry knob, the corresponding slider is also named "wet/dry" - but not with amplitube. With amplitube I get 16 sliders (way to few) and they're named "parameter 1", "parameter 2" and they don't seem to change anything, in other words - the sliders seem to be "fake". Also Amplitube won't tell REAPER which control was touched last.

So as far as I can understand, Amplitube simply does not work in a standard way, which I do find incredible, and rather disappointing. However, it is possible that this is a bug in my system, and not amplitubes fault. However I doubt that. No other plugins are making problems in this area

Conclusion: The problem is that Amplitube seems to refuse being remote-controlled from REAPER.
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Old 05-25-2019, 12:00 PM   #22
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ah, i think perhaps those 16 parameters have to be assigned, in amplitube, to whatever you wish to control, then they should work in reaper?
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Old 05-25-2019, 12:08 PM   #23
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Yes - I just found that out! And I was very excited --- but it doesn't work:

I can assign, lets say the volume-knob, to parameter 1 in Ampli, then go to slider-ui and touch the param 1, and then let REAPER midi-learn the controller for parameter 1.


When I do that I can control parameter 1 from the foot-controller. In the "sliders-UI" it works, I can see the slider moving - alas, the slider is not moving the volume button :/
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Old 05-25-2019, 12:11 PM   #24
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YEAH!

It doesn't work with the VST3 - but it works with VST2!



I'll edit my question in the first post so that others can get the solution straight away! (in a while, gotta play now )

Thanks for all the help - I just played with a Wah-pedal, pitty I'm not much of a guitar-player

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Old 05-25-2019, 01:59 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acebone View Post
however it IS possible to record midi-CONTROL-MESSAGES and audio on the very same track.
No."Envelopes" (and Reaper's "Midi learn") is not a "recording" but a "mixdown" workflow feature. "Learn" can be used for live playing, but IMHO should be avoided whenever possible. Dedicated parameter modulation usually is the by far better option, as it works exactly as if the plugin would receive the Midi messages on its own, hence providing a much clearer signal flow that using the "Reaper Control Channel" (which is the source for "Learn") in the background of all tracks for modulating plugin parameters.

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Old 05-25-2019, 02:13 PM   #26
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Quote:
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It doesn't work with the VST3 - but it works with VST2!
Seemingly the VST3 is not decently crafted

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