Old 08-03-2018, 03:15 PM   #1
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Default Connecting midi devices on ALSA

Hey I have a focusrite 2i4 with a miditech keyboard plugged into that
on Ubuntu 18
running freshly installed Reaper 5.94 linux 64

The midi device prefs show hw:USB Enabled with id: 1

But no midi making it to loaded and armed ReaSynth

Any idea what I'm doing wrong?


Code:
➜  ~ cat /proc/asound/cards
  0 [HDMI           ]: HDA-Intel - HDA Intel HDMI
                      HDA Intel HDMI at 0xf7f14000 irq 35
 1 [USB            ]: USB-Audio - Scarlett 2i4 USB
                      Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 USB at usb-0000:00:14.0-3, high speed
 2 [PCH            ]: HDA-Intel - HDA Intel PCH
                      HDA Intel PCH at 0xf7f10000 irq 34
➜  ~ aconnect -i
client 0: 'System' [type=kernel]
    0 'Timer           '
    1 'Announce        '
client 14: 'Midi Through' [type=kernel]
    0 'Midi Through Port-0'
client 20: 'Scarlett 2i4 USB' [type=kernel,card=1]
    0 'Scarlett 2i4 USB MIDI 1'
➜  ~
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Old 08-03-2018, 03:46 PM   #2
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I found this which was really helpful


https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/USB_MIDI_keyboards


but i don't remember actually changing anything but it works awesomely now after rebooting


yay!


Any advice to demystify how it works would be great though
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Old 08-04-2018, 05:52 AM   #3
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does the record armed track have input monitoring enabled? also does the meter show midi messages being input?
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Old 08-04-2018, 02:30 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin View Post
does the record armed track have input monitoring enabled? also does the meter show midi messages being input?

Cheers Justin


Yes it was record armed and monitoring was on. Plus I right clicked and added instrument (Reasynth) to make sure



But it is working now and tested again this morning so all good.


Not sure what the problem was, whether it was me or it.
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Old 08-04-2018, 03:45 PM   #5
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Ok So I did a fresh install of Ubuntu 18.04.1 on an old dell lap top as well
Plugged the focusrite in and same result.


But I had also installed qjackctl and ran that before.
So I stopped the jack server, rebooted
Now Alsa works audio and midi.


I'm wondering if I didn't install qjackctl at all, whether Alsa would have worked first pop?
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Old 08-04-2018, 09:20 PM   #6
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Garrick that is interesting. I always had an easier time getting things working (and better performance) with straight up alsa rather than adding jack to the mix. I know that some people tend to say otherwise. But I prefer not using jack, carla, etc. for the above reasons.
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Old 08-04-2018, 10:18 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brainwreck View Post
Garrick that is interesting. I always had an easier time getting things working (and better performance) with straight up alsa rather than adding jack to the mix. I know that some people tend to say otherwise. But I prefer not using jack, carla, etc. for the above reasons.
Hey Bdub


Yeah I'm a bit sparse on the knowledge front here, on what can you do with jack that you can't with alsa. I imagine alsa came first. I shall read up
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Old 08-04-2018, 11:58 PM   #8
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ALSA == driver
Jack == route between programs
Jack is not responsible for realtime.
ALSA is realtime as well, but is also not responsible for realtime.

The various audio optimizations are responsible for realtime.

With ALSA you have assigned your sound card driver, you can only assign 1 program ALSA.
Jack's here to route between audio programs.

See picture in the appendix && See signature for more details on audio optimizations.
Attached Images
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Last edited by khz; 08-05-2018 at 12:26 AM. Reason: gramatics
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Old 08-05-2018, 01:01 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by khz View Post
ALSA == driver
Jack == route between programs
Jack is not responsible for realtime.
ALSA is realtime as well, but is also not responsible for realtime.

The various audio optimizations are responsible for realtime.

With ALSA you have assigned your sound card driver, you can only assign 1 program ALSA.
Jack's here to route between audio programs.

See picture in the appendix && See signature for more details on audio optimizations.

Nice one khz and thanks for that.


I was just thinking joining up to that forum. So I took this as a sign and joined up


So alsa is great until you need to route in a another program like with rewire?
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Old 08-05-2018, 02:04 AM   #10
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Check out my post on Linux audio, it relates to these subjects:

https://www.learndigitalaudio.com/ho...ows-audio-2017
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Old 08-05-2018, 02:37 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Else View Post
Check out my post on Linux audio, it relates to these subjects:

https://www.learndigitalaudio.com/ho...ows-audio-2017

Cool article David ta



So is it fair to say alsa has a limited API and usually has the middle man of pulseaudio and jack to do fancy stuff like having 2 programs have sound at the same time?


I didn't really get my head around this with asio and wasapi either.


Don't get me wrong I'm really really happy how it's working now with reap on linux, but do any of guys look with envy at core audio?
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Old 08-05-2018, 09:07 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garrick View Post
So is it fair to say alsa has a limited API and usually has the middle man of pulseaudio and jack to do fancy stuff like having 2 programs have sound at the same time?


I didn't really get my head around this with asio and wasapi either.


Don't get me wrong I'm really really happy how it's working now with reap on linux, but do any of guys look with envy at core audio?
I think it is good that alsa exists for what it is, handling functionality of devices and getting audio/midi to/from applications. I think that it shouldn't be any more complicated than that. Jack is a good idea, but I think that some aspects surrounding it's implementation aren't so good, I think the forking causes some problems (2 versions), and I think that the relative lack of good descriptions and discussion around linux audio has caused confusion on what jack is and isn't. As khz pointed out above, it just provides routing among applications. Then there is pulseaudio... It provides a hodgepodge of features that wouldn't be around otherwise, but it should have been done in separate small projects, and it has been implemented in a very yuck way. For example, any mixing features could have been implemented in jack with a high latency mode or a similar project, and bluetooth audio should have been a separate project. The way things have gone, it can be difficult to send the output of an application directly to alsa because most applications have become dependent upon pulseaudio.

I think asio was just steinberg's response to lack of low latency audio performance on windows. And wasapi was the eventual addressing of the same by microsoft (many years later).

I'm not familiar with coreaudio. I hear that it does everything and well. But I think that there can be some advantages to multiple projects, where each project COULD BE simple, coherent, efficient, and flexible, like unix commandline tools, as opposed to a system being dependent upon a big monolithic project for even a single useful feature (and accepting all that project's faults for that single feature) - which is the pulseaudio way.
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Old 08-05-2018, 12:03 PM   #13
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I built my Gentoo LAW without pulse audio ("-pulseaudio" >> /etc/portage/make.conf). :-)
Pulseaudio >> /dev/null <-- IMHO
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Old 08-05-2018, 01:14 PM   #14
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Quote:
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I built my Gentoo LAW without pulse audio ("-pulseaudio" >> /etc/portage/make.conf). :-)
Pulseaudio >> /dev/null <-- IMHO
You have wayyy more time and patience than I do. By the time I got a Gentoo system compiled and configured, I would be too old to enjoy using it.

I forget the details, but I have ran an arch install in the past without pulseaudio. But it was a pain to use for daily driving. Still, I don't like that so many applications have dropped direct alsa support when all that is required is some possible sample rate conversion and mixing of streams rather than all that is wrapped up into pusleaudio.
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Old 08-05-2018, 02:01 PM   #15
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I think this will the the future:

https://pipewire.org/

https://blogs.gnome.org/uraeus/2018/...ion-an-update/

Quote:
Another important goal of PipeWire was to bring all Linux audio and video together, which means PipeWire needed to be as good or better replacement for Jack for the Pro-Audio usecase. This is a tough usecase to satisfy so while getting the video part has been the top development priority Wim has also worked on verifying that the design allows for the low latency and control needed for Pro-Audio. To do this Wim has implemented the Jack protocol on top of PipeWire.
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Old 08-05-2018, 02:24 PM   #16
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!vote KLANG \o/ ;-)

http://klang.eudyptula.org/
Quote:
About KLANG

KLANG is a new open source audio system in development. Its target platforms are the Linux and the FreeBSD kernel. KLANG offers professional grade audio, that means lowest possible latency, latency compensation and bit exact precision at a very low CPU load.

KLANG has been designed as a signal routing system, supporting seamless and transparent signal transport between all endpoints. In practice this means that there's no distinction between hardware and process endpoints. Each endpoint is either a signal source or a sink, allowing for versatile signal routing topoligies.

All connections are fully latency compensated. A metronome system synchronizes the signal processing to a configurable set of system internal and external clock sources. This greatly simplifies tasks like audio/video synchronization.
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Old 08-05-2018, 02:32 PM   #17
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Ding ding!
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Old 08-05-2018, 02:55 PM   #18
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Both Pipewire and Klang look interesting, from very different approaches. Ultimately, we want something that is not more complex than it need be, is performant/efficient, reliable, flexible, and not a chore to use.

It seems that Pipewire is much further along in development. I have been seeing the Klang info page in the same state for some years.

Klang looks to have a heavier focus on efficiency/performance by placing routing in the kernel. Pipewire looks to have a heavier focus on flexibility and backward compatibility.

Who knows which might eventually prevail? Probably the one that focuses on minimal negative impact on current applications and making progress.

By the way, I remember this talk with Wolfgang Draxinger (Klang dev) on init systems/desktops, specifically systemd/Lennart Poettering and team taking over like a virus: https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...gang+draxinger
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Old 08-05-2018, 03:18 PM   #19
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KLANG has not been very well received by kernel developers, to put it politely. ;-) I never had anything new from KLANG heard.
The future is more like pulseaudio, which is the worst of all possibilities. IMHO
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Old 08-05-2018, 04:16 PM   #20
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Ok so I did another fresh install, this time Zorin (ubuntu 16.04)


installed 5.941
but unable to connect to the scarlett with alsa even after rebooting
have done sudo usermod -aG audio garrick


this report shows alsa can see the usb scarlett

http://www.alsa-project.org/db/?f=1f...28525bd6d18faf
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Old 08-05-2018, 04:27 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garrick View Post
Ok so I did another fresh install, this time Zorin (ubuntu 16.04)


installed 5.941
but unable to connect to the scarlett with alsa even after rebooting
have done sudo usermod -aG audio garrick


this report shows alsa can see the usb scarlett

http://www.alsa-project.org/db/?f=1f...28525bd6d18faf
So you don't have either version of jack installed at the moment? Just doublechecking.
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Old 08-05-2018, 04:46 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brainwreck View Post
So you don't have either version of jack installed at the moment? Just doublechecking.

damn I should have checked.
I didn't install qjackctl but not sure if jack was installed by default on Zorin 12.3


Now trying fresh install of ubuntu 18.04.1
see how that goes
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Old 08-05-2018, 04:58 PM   #23
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I ask because it seems like I remember a strange config issue with alsa where it would only run when testing half-duplex but would not connect to ardour (full-duplex). And it seems that it was related to jack being present or not (I forget which way). I'm trying to find it in my old notes (it is there somewhere).

So for having a better idea of what is going on, I would suggest testing inputs and outputs separately using alsa-utils to see if your interface is working ok at half-duplex. But maybe before that just see if you can hear anything after adjusting levels in alsa-mixer with a microphone or guitar connected. If all is well in alsa-mixer, then at least your know your interface's inputs and outputs are working as expected.

A link for testing interface with alsa: http://mailman.alsa-project.org/main...undcardTesting

This might come in handy too:
https://alsa.opensrc.org/Alsa-utils
https://alsa.opensrc.org/Proc_asound_documentation
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Old 08-05-2018, 05:10 PM   #24
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yeah will do bw


the ubuntu install has same prob


added to audio group


interestingly i searched for jack
Code:
garrick@garrick-All-Series:~$ apt list --installed | grep jack

libjack-jackd2-0/bionic,now 1.9.12~dfsg-2 amd64 [installed]
garrick@garrick-All-Series:~$
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Old 08-05-2018, 05:17 PM   #25
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I guess enough people are expecting to see jack be there these days...
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Old 08-05-2018, 05:34 PM   #26
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Yeah it's all good
I'll just go the normal jack way for now

heres the report for the ubuntu 18 install
http://www.alsa-project.org/db/?f=1e...6c00cb1457448e
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Old 08-05-2018, 05:38 PM   #27
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Yea, whatever works.

Sorry man, I came up with nothing in my notes. It is probably on a different drive.

But I remember the problem being usb specific, where the interface was being presented to the application at half-duplex only and failing to connect. I can't remember exactly what the issue was at the moment, but I seem to remember jack being involved somehow.
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Old 08-05-2018, 06:23 PM   #28
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yay working


and i'm too ashamed to tell what I was doing wrong
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Old 08-05-2018, 06:41 PM   #29
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Come on with it...
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Old 08-05-2018, 06:58 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brainwreck View Post
Come on with it...
Well you know where that drop down list is in audio devices


Yeah bdub that sure is a purdy drop down list


yeah well it sure was purdy whan I actually clicked on the arrow to the right of that dropdown list to make that droplist go down.


I'll get my coat
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Old 08-05-2018, 07:16 PM   #31
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Did a fresh install Ubuntu 18.04.1, just to be sure
no jack
installed reaper
alsa audio and midi worked first time!
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Old 08-05-2018, 07:33 PM   #32
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I won't speak of my many own stupidities.
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Old 08-05-2018, 07:42 PM   #33
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Thank you b
Now all I have to do is wait till this thread makes it to the next page
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Old 08-05-2018, 07:56 PM   #34
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Requesting a thread lock. Hey Ollie!
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Old 08-05-2018, 09:57 PM   #35
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or even a feature request for the love of all things good
before someone gets hurt!
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Old 08-06-2018, 10:45 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Else View Post
Fascinating read!!! I think these guys are headed in the right direction! They've covered almost all the important use-cases too!!

Even better, the PulseAudio development guys are in total agreement and don't mind Pipewire replacing their project--that really says something!!
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Old 04-25-2019, 04:10 AM   #37
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Default Jack and MIDI

I have used Reaper in Wine for years. I have just started with Reaper for Linux and I know what the problem is!

Before getting to the point, for my purposes I need to use Carla, because the Windows VST plugins that are fine with wine don't work as native linux plugins. (I'm also having problems with running native linux VST plugins in Reaper and Carla helps with that, as well). Carla is much more flexible when running with jack.

Jack is the problem. Start qjackctl and Reaper set to using the jack engine in audio prefs. In Reaper, enable a Midi IN port and a Midi OUT port. Plug in your Scarlett interface.

In the qjackctl window, click the Connections pane button. In the Connections pane you will see the Reaper midi ports appear under MIDI, but the Scarlett ports appear under ALSA. None of the alsa midi ports will appear in Reaper and neither can they be patched together with the Connections pane

The various Ubuntu distributions, including Ubuntu Studio, bridge alsa midi devices to the jack alsa section and not to the jack MIDI section.

With Reaper running in Wine and using WineASIO, the alsa MIDI ports are presented to Reaper and can be enabled directly in Midi prefs. With Reaper for Linux, Reaper is looking in the MIDI connections section and not the Alsa section where the software midi devices like Timidity and the alsa keyboard appear. In addition, the external MIDI devices appear under ALSA as well.

The temporary solution (as you have discovered) is to run Reaper with the ALSA engine in which case all the software and hardware midi devices will appear in Reaper. Try using Patchage to connect the various ports together.

Out of curiosity, I installed and ran the virtual keyboard for jack. In Reaper, I was able to select the virtual keyboard as a MIDI track source, but recording keystrokes failed.

Enabling one of the Reaper MIDI INs, patching it to the keyboard in the qjackctl Connections MIDI panel (just click on the keyboard port and drag to the Reaper Midi Input 1) and selecting Midi Input 1 as the source in Reaper works perfectly. Rather than put this right, I would prefer that Reaper used the jack ports under ALSA.
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Old 04-25-2019, 07:10 AM   #38
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I have qJackCtl run this script at startup which first issues the ALSA to JACK midi connection command "a2jmidid". That gets midi working in REAPER, even though I'm using JACK which by itself doesn't expose midi on my DAW. The second command links my two M-Audio Delta 2496 cards audio up so they appear as one device, and last I have it launch REAPER for me so that starting qJackCtl also sets up midi, audio and starts REAPER.

a2jmidid -e &
sleep .5
zita-a2j -d hw:3 &
sleep .5
~/.local/share/reaper_linux_x86_64/REAPER/reaper &

Additionally I use this command in REAPER on the "Autostart jackd" command line.

/usr/bin/jackd -P80 -dalsa -dhw:M2496 -r44100 -p64 -n2 -Xseq

The -Xseq makes midi available as well, even though JACK is the audio driver.
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Old 04-25-2019, 11:24 AM   #39
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Quote:
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Jack is the problem. Start qjackctl and Reaper set to using the jack engine in audio prefs. In Reaper, enable a Midi IN port and a Midi OUT port. Plug in your Scarlett interface.
As stated above, try using the JACK (ALSA backend) -Xseq parameter. Then you ought to be able to use your hardware ports with no problem also when running JACK.
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