Hard time to decide: Reaper or Studio One 4

[Aymara]

Originally Posted by dupont

Tous ce que j'ai compris, c'est que ça doit être de l'allemand !

And I only understand, that this is French

He said, that we are both Germans and speak the same language, which in this context means, we have the same opinion too ... German playing with words

[Trancit]

Originally Posted by Aymara

And I only understand, that this is French

He said, that we are both Germans and speak the same language, which in this context means, we have the same opinion too ... German playing with words

And I just saw the location you entered... Ruhr area... that was great laugh here... still smiling!!!!!

[Aymara]

Originally Posted by Trancit

And I just saw the location you entered... Ruhr area... that was great laugh here... still smiling!!!!!

It‘s the translation of „Ruhrgebiet“, the former mining region, that‘s now pretty green after the mines have been closed.

Why do you find it funny?

[Trancit]

No offense, but it sounds "sau" funny if you translate it 1:1 into english...

Of course it´s more or less correct, but it´s a good joke anyway...

[robgb]

Originally Posted by Trancit

I know, omg another vs. thread... but I got really my difficulties to decide between these 2...

Sounds to me as if you're just looking for a reason to switch to Studio One. Honestly, you're the only one who can make that decision. But for the record, I come FROM Studio One. I used it for several years and upgraded, etc. But the pace of those upgrades was extremely slow, and the price got ridiculous, so I started looking for an alternative.

Once I realized how unbelievably customizable Reaper is, and it's ability to do pretty much anything I wanted it to do, I never turned back.

Now, clearly you're not completely happy with Reaper. And the thing about DAWs is this. Almost all of them are good. It's just a matter of what's the right fit for you.

[puddi]

I tried Studio One. Then I found out I needed multiple keyboard shortcuts for deleting and duplicating and I couldn't find a way to make the shortcuts context sensitive. So I quit.

[Aymara]

Originally Posted by Trancit

No offense, but it sounds "sau" funny if you translate it 1:1 into english...

It's the correct translation, because the sometimes used "Ruhr Valley" is incorrect, because it is only the valley around the river and not the full former industrial region.

So, even if it might sound funny for Germans, it's the correct translation.

[Aymara]

Originally Posted by robgb

... the price got ridiculous ...

And Cubase and other DAWs are so much cheaper? I think Reaper is the only DAW with a reasonable price, right?

Btw, I got S1 Artist included, when I bought my Presonus interface and updated on Black Friday to Pro for around 150 bucks, which I found quite ok after I got 150€ discount for the interface

[vitalker]

Originally Posted by Aymara

And Cubase and other DAWs are so much cheaper? I think Reaper is the only DAW with a reasonable price, right?

It depends who you are. It can cost you $225, which is not really cheap.

[Aymara]

Originally Posted by vitalker

It depends who you are. It can cost you $225, which is not really cheap.

Yes, ok, that's usually overseen ... for Pro Studios the license price is much higher, than for a band or single musician for example.

[vitalker]

Originally Posted by Aymara

Yes, ok, that's usually overseen ... for Pro Studios the license price is much higher, than for a band or single musician for example.

Does anyone still buy PT? What a shame. I don't mean studios.

[Aymara]

Originally Posted by vitalker

Does anyone still buy PT? What a shame.

As you mention it ... there seem to be many people switching from PT to S1, but I fear many large studios still use this Avid crap, be it because of hardware used or support contracts.

Regarding Reaper‘s higher price ... that‘s for companies like Pro studios, right?

[vitalker]

Originally Posted by Aymara

As you mention it ... there seem to be many people switching from PT to S1, but I fear many large studios still use this Avid crap, be it because of hardware used or support contracts.

That's why I specified what I meant. Studios will use it for a while.

Originally Posted by Aymara

Regarding Reaper‘s higher price ... that‘s for companies like Pro studios, right?

Here are some conditions: http://reaper.fm/purchase.php
But it is up to you, what license you'll buy. Conscientious people will pay the right price.

[Nip]

Tested Reaper 5.4x this summer and now on StudioOne 4.x coming from Cubase Pro 9.5.

**** Video ****

To me Reaper is putting a lot of work into things that is not daw, as such - like video editing. Why try and compete with video editors, one wonders?

I found VLC player causing delay and made Reaper feel really slow and clumpsy. And sync with timeline so-so. First time ever I felt Reaper was not up for the job.

StudioOne works really well in this regard. I play back the same project in StudioOne with 3% cpu as Cubase use up 36%. And sync perfectly and no sweat all - you don't even notice you have video running.

**** VCA's ****
Did not like Reaper implementation of VCA's at all. You just see on meters what VCA is doing - not on faders(until frozen/merged into automation). And not true nesting of VCA either which not nice. Studio handle this very well and to my liking.


What is overcomplicated in StudioOne is midi configuration - with external gear you need to set up one keyboard and one instrument - which took me an hour to figure out. You have setting for both midi input and output on either - but you don't get the port listed where expected - keyboard become inputs, and instruments become output. So with that in mind - config is rather quick.

*** AAF/OMF ****
Reaper has neither, StudioOne AAF at least.
And StudioOne import Cubase Track archives(xml) really well, so making that transition easy. Tempo track, markers and all midi and audio events in place in a flash.

I strongly believe though that Reaper 6 will remedy some of this mentioned.

I successfully used EDL from Reaper to Samplitude, once upon a time. So more of that in Reaper 6 is way to go, lower threshold to go between daws.

**** Performance ****
I fell StudioOne is just as light on system(at least windows) as Reaper is. And when it comes to video StudioOne is superior - you never notice it(1080p 25fps H264 inside MP4 container).

**** Notation ****
StudioOne has improved integration of Notion quite a bit. Personally I had issues with a midi file, and Notion did not navigate it properly - so that is not so good.
Also rather weird implementation of how to split two handed material into two staves. It goes by name of track - unless it's called "piano" nothing happends. But rather smooth overall. Notion is also really low price if having StudioOne professional - ~$60 so that addon is not so much. So transfer of either audio or midi between StudioOne and Notion is rather smooth, I think.

I liked how Notion did tab input - and you just enter the note of open string whatever bass or guitar. So any tuning will work. Many notation software have just ready made tunings for you.

I was not impressed by Reaper notation either, but it is truly integrated - which I assume is mandatory if doing any composing in daw through score.

Don't remember all details about testing notation in Reaper so leave at that. I was too put off by other things already.


A bunch of input on the topic...

[robgb]

Originally Posted by vitalker

It depends who you are. It can cost you $225, which is not really cheap.

If you're earning the kind of money you have to earn from music or production to be at that price point, then $225 is not really an issue.

Most people can use Reaper for free if they don't mind a nag screen. The rest of us paid our $60, a price that includes all minor and one MAJOR upgrade. But even if you had to pay the $60 again, that's still cheaper than Studio One's upgrade prices.

There's really no contest.

[semiquaver]

For me video is a killer feature.

I do a lot of different kinds of work, and I need to figure out new workflows often.

Because REAPER can do everything there's always a way. - video,text,high-track-count files, scripts that interact with the system, multiple instances, smpte, native dsp language, command-line invocation - REAPER is all alone for completeness and flexibility.

And for music I don't like being steered towards other people's solutions especially paid solutions but that's a personal matter! I want to choose or make my tools. So for me there's no comparison.

[stillshaded]

Oh btw..

I’m planning on selling my S1 v4 license via kvraudio pretty soon if anyone is interested. I have feedback over there and can pm you from that account.

Just throwing it out there.

[BluGenes]

Ever have to work on something "mechanically"? It's a tool, the same as what you would have in a tool box. The more tools you have, the better you can have the ability to solve the problem. The problem is the final output of your goal, the audio. How you get there, is your choice. I like tools, I have a big tool box.

[Steviebone]

Originally Posted by Aymara

Correct ... 32 bit stuff dies and Reaper 64 Bit can easily handle 32 bit plugins. And S1 should also be able to.

Because macOS Mojave will be the last version to support 32 bit software, I checked my installed software, incl. plugins, and around 95% are already 64 bit.

So, sorry to say that, but the thesis above, that most plugins would be still 32 bit is complete nonsense, except when using outdated free stuff.

No, most developers are abandoning new development of 32 bit plugs. As far as using 32 bit plugs in Reaper, you can do it, some work fine, others not so much. And again, there are memory limitations in a 32 bit OS/DAW. No reason whatsoever not to move to a 64 bit OS with 64 bit plugs wherever possible.

[dupont]

Originally Posted by Aymara

Are you using the latest version 4.1.1? I ask, because I do and have no CPU issues with S1 at all ... performance is comparable to Reaper (latest version 5).

I use all this stuff on a mid2014 MacBook Pro (with i7 & 16 GB RAM) and on an iMac Pro (8 core base model), both with macOS 10.13.6

yes last update.
I made a test this afternoon, load an empty seesion of Reaper and S1.
Reaper CPU 60 Mo
S1 244 Mo

[machinesworking]

Originally Posted by Aymara

It‘s obvious, that you didn‘t try out S1 V4

CPU efficiency is hugely improved as it seems compared to V3 and features like chord and arranger track are huge advantages for composers. The composition features alone let‘s me prefer S1 over Reaper.

I've done clinical level CPU tests on DAWs for years, because even published authors in SOS and Electronic Musician etc. lie or buy into some mythological thinking based on advertising. There are essentially three tiers to DAWs, and Reaper is by far the most CPU efficient DAW out there. This isn't a small amount either, Reaper easily beats Logic, Cubase, S1, DP9 etc. by about 20-25% The worst tier is Bitwig, Ableton Live and Reaper beats them by 40-55% Cubase at one point was worse than Logic and DP etc. and fixed it's issues, sounds like S1 had similar issues.

I never use chord finders or composition helpers of any kind. I tend to compose in odd or outside the box keys, and change key in a song even, so these things actually get in the way of creativity for me. In general I think the idea is far too paint by numbers.

I like to use heavy duty VSTi's and not worry about CPU, and I've used a lot of DAWs, so I have ideas on how I want a DAW set up based on that experience. Reaper allows me to take features from other DAWs I liked and incorporate them into a workflow I design. This is why Reaper is what I use. I could name a few tricks DP, Live, Logic, etc. etc. do that are arguably faster than in Reaper, but Reaper can do them for the most part, but the unique features of those DAWs are not replicable by those DAWs.

[machinesworking]

Originally Posted by Trancit

Its not about being able to work with video... but in a DAW I definetely don´t need any fancy video processors and this was the main development over the past8 or 9 month or so...




Don´t hold your breath on that...
On my system 90% of the time Studio One is more efficient than Reaper...
Reaper only shines when it comes to really maxing out the system... meaning, when dropouts occur in S1 I can go still a bit further in Reaper...
But up to this very end point S1 does a better job than Reaper...

"More efficient" is a subjective term the way you are using it. The reason Reaper doesn't have drop outs at the end is because it is more CPU efficient, period. You're talking about your general ease of use with the DAW and mixing it up with CPU efficiency.

If you value the workflow in S1 that's fine of course, it's just not a valid argument against Reapers CPU efficiency.

[Aymara]

Originally Posted by Nip

**** Performance ****
I fell StudioOne is just as light on system(at least windows) as Reaper is.

I have the same impression on macOS, so I‘m astonished about above posts telling the opposite.

[machinesworking]

Originally Posted by Aymara

I have the same impression on macOS, so I‘m astonished about above posts telling the opposite.

A couple things.
The CPU meter in any DAW is BS, it's not accurate at all, period, end of story.

When we're talking about a 20-25% advantage in Reaper it's not going to be noticeable for everyday tasks in a decent CPU DAW like Studio One. It will be noticeable like someone mentioned, when you start to pile on FX, limiters, compressors etc. during the mixing stage. I can max out any DAW with Kontakt libraries with heavy scripting, and MPC2, Maschine (essentially DAWs in a DAW), but in general I notice Reapers CPU efficiency with mix down these days.

I have a relatively powerful computer, but it's old, so the chips (2x 6 core 3.4GHz Xeon) are old and can be maxed out pretty easily on a single track. Reaper beats the snot out of other juggernauts of CPU out there like Logic, which had been the most CPU efficient years ago. My guess it's because of really good core management. With a total of 24 possible threads on my computer, if a DAW is good at distributing load I should never have issues, and I never do with Reaper.

What I'm shocked about really is how little you guys seem to know about this? Reapers main selling points are extensibility, features, and CPU efficiency that beats the snot out of all DAWs. This is just a well known fact, I tested it out years ago before I ever started using it and it beat out DP9 and Logic on my system by about 23% on average.

If you want a really good judge of what a DAW can handle CPU wise a to failure test will let you know.
Take a CPU hungry plug in like Diva or Serum etc. and loop a simple MIDI file on a track, copy that track until you hear crackling in the audio, then back off until the audio is stable. Do the same in both Reaper and Studio One. It's then simple math to determine by track count what the CPU efficiency difference is between the two DAWs is. This is really the only test that works. CPU meters, and anecdotal observations don't add up at all.

All DAWs can handle audio tracks, and personally if you're using pitch and time stretching algorithms it's probably best to test just that. This test covers core distribution and CPU handling per core. Basically the major parts CPU interferes with in the mixing and composing process.

I think you will be surprised.

[Trancit]

Originally Posted by machinesworking

Take a CPU hungry plug in like Diva or Serum etc. and loop a simple MIDI file on a track, copy that track until you hear crackling in the audio, then back off until the audio is stable. Do the same in both Reaper and Studio One. It's then simple math to determine by track count what the CPU efficiency difference is between the two DAWs is. This is really the only test that works. CPU meters, and anecdotal observations don't add up at all.

I did enough tests with more effort means not only a CPU hungry plugin to get a finer measurement and I already stated that at the very end Reaper wins with anticipative FX activated... without is far worse than the others...
But by far not by about 20-25%... perhaps 10% but not more...
What can be, is that on older processors the difference could be bigger as I have bigger differences from the past in memory...

But on my machine it´s about a difference of more or less 10%...
I cannot agree neither on the big differences between i.e. Ableton, Bitwig and others...

Reaper wins at the very end over all of them but more or less with equal overhead...
At least here (i5 7600 @4 GHz, Win 10 64bit) S1, Bitwig, Ableton are more or less on par, FL Studio a bit behind...

[jinotsuh]

In my experience any difference is not even worth worrying about, it's a non issue. I have zero issues with Studio Ones performance or had I with REAPERS performance, they both noticeably out perform the likes of SONAR Platinum, CbB, Mixbus.

REAPER crashed more for me, especially didn't seem to like BFD3 at times, Studio One has only crashed once in over 3 and a half years, as mentioned before, that was due to trying to insert a couple of Cakewalk plugins.
(I've since ditched everything Cakewalk)

[Trancit]

There is a lot of truth...
It´s the same people hunting for the latest harware technology to gain 5-10% theoretical increase, which is hardly noticeable in real life scenarios...

It doesn´t matter, if you have in a progress of a song have to bounce down something 5 minutes earlier or later... most likely you need to do anyway...

What on the other hands matters a lot is stability...
For me there is no bigger showstopper than a crashfest... you are concentrated into your work you are inspired you are in a real fluid and baaammm you are back to the desktop...

Luckily I have no issues neither in Reaper nor in Studio One nor in Ableton... they are running very very solid... for me no difference luckily...

[Aymara]

Originally Posted by Trancit

It´s the same people hunting for the latest harware technology to gain 5-10% theoretical increase, ....

I fear in many scenarios it‘s the other way round ... people being on a budget using „underpowered“ hardware and seeking better performance.

Example: A guy in the Native Instruments forum bought a dual core Mac Mini with 8 GB RAM and searched for alternatives similar to ReaMote, because the Mini couldn‘t handle the load of his orchestral projects.

[Trancit]

I didn´t meant muscians...

I think, it´s mostly found at gamers spending often thousands to get the latest cpu generation when it appears...
Some silly people out there...

[Aymara]

Originally Posted by Trancit

Some silly people out there...

Me included ... I bought an iMac Pro ... though not for gaming

[Coachz]

Originally Posted by semiquaver

For me video is a killer feature.

I do a lot of different kinds of work, and I need to figure out new workflows often.

Because REAPER can do everything there's always a way. - video,text,high-track-count files, scripts that interact with the system, multiple instances, smpte, native dsp language, command-line invocation - REAPER is all alone for completeness and flexibility.

And for music I don't like being steered towards other people's solutions especially paid solutions but that's a personal matter! I want to choose or make my tools. So for me there's no comparison.

Where are the video commands in reaper? I don't see any video stuff, not that I'm going to do many video.

[Aymara]

Originally Posted by Coachz

Where are the video commands in reaper? I don't see any video stuff, not that I'm going to do many video.

Maybe start here?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5eWDeftza4

[Trancit]

Originally Posted by Aymara

Me included ... I bought an iMac Pro ... though not for gaming

People buying a Mac are crazy anyway...
Best way to crucify yourself...

[Aymara]

Originally Posted by Trancit

Best way to crucify yourself...

No, the opposite is the case, because I plugged in my new interfaces to my Macs and they worked at once with superb performance and on my Win10 machine it‘s a huge hassle to get them running without huge latency issues in any DAW.

I‘m done with Windows as my main OS ... time is money

[europa_man]

Originally Posted by Trancit

I know, omg another vs. thread... but I got really my difficulties to decide between these 2...
No offense here against Reaper neither although if listing my personal pros and cons got Reaper more and more hard times here...

For me, Studio One is a lot more "ready to use" for both GUI and functionality... everything is simply more streamlined
The provided instruments especially the ImpactXT and SampleOne with their native integration are a big pro for me too, as are the integrated fx... everything is very useable out of the box... including browsing exiting projects and be able to import, tracks, fx, complete structures... musicloop and audioloop export/import are great, preset management for native and 3rd party plugins is exemplary, chord track...etc...etc...
I wish I could tell that about Reaper...

Tbh, in the last few years Presonus was for me one of the most innovative DAW company if not the most innovative one...
Every update brought great new features and a well done implementation while Cockos fell more and more behind, having had a great start, turned all new implementation more and more into a meh...
Old issues were ignored and more and more nerd stuff implemented, and the new direction turning everything into a second class Vegas clone doesn´t help neither...

Nevertheless is Reaper still a tad ahead when it comes to it´s flexibility and the mouse modifiers are great...

I know here are a lot ex S1 users...
What were special reasons for you leaving a great DAW behind and go with Reaper...
Do I miss something, which can lead into a trap when diggin deeper into S1??
Really curious here

I'm sorry but I've never used Studio One. I started with Cakewalk & BIAB from the DOS days and then jumped into Roland hard disk recorders for a long time. Then back to Cakewalk SONAR and then discovered Reaper because they could play all my old recorded Roland VS tracks. I still bounce back to SONAR once in a while.
I believe each one us connects with certain software. I love Reaper and can get things done in Reaper. I think the support for Reaper is "over the top' starting from Kenny G on down through the forum. It's the support that keeps me here and the software is very comfortable for me to use. And the results are world class.

To each his own.
Why not continue to use both Studio One & Reaper.
It's legal here in Canada. :-)

[Trancit]

Originally Posted by Aymara

No, the opposite is the case, because I plugged in my new interfaces to my Macs and they worked at once with superb performance and on my Win10 machine it‘s a huge hassle to get them running without huge latency issues in any DAW.

I‘m done with Windows as my main OS ... time is money

No problem... don´t want to start a OS war here...

But what has to be said has to be said... duck....

[Aymara]

Originally Posted by Trancit

No problem... don´t want to start a OS war here...

Sure ... just wanted to explain, why I moved from Win to Mac. Thankfully we all have a choice

[azslow3]

Originally Posted by europa_man

To each his own.
Why not continue to use both Studio One & Reaper.
It's legal here in Canada. :-)

Because as you can see such proposals are silently ignored

There is a good recent cite from CW forum about the topic:

Originally Posted by bitflipper

The point being that the most impactful variables for recording quality have nothing whatsoever to do with the DAW.

[machinesworking]

Originally Posted by Trancit

I did enough tests with more effort means not only a CPU hungry plugin to get a finer measurement and I already stated that at the very end Reaper wins with anticipative FX activated... without is far worse than the others...
But by far not by about 20-25%... perhaps 10% but not more...
What can be, is that on older processors the difference could be bigger as I have bigger differences from the past in memory...

But on my machine it´s about a difference of more or less 10%...
I cannot agree neither on the big differences between i.e. Ableton, Bitwig and others...

Reaper wins at the very end over all of them but more or less with equal overhead...
At least here (i5 7600 @4 GHz, Win 10 64bit) S1, Bitwig, Ableton are more or less on par, FL Studio a bit behind...

I've done this many times. I've owned about 6 DAWs, and I've been using VSTs and DAWs forever. I really didn't like Reaper for years, and it still easily won the tests I've performed, every, single, time.
Live easily lost every test, every time, and Bitwig actually comes in worse than Live.

My machine is more powerful than yours, that's not the issue. It's a modded 09 Mac Pro at 2x6 core 3.4ghz Xeons. 24GB RAM, M.2 SSD running the boot drive etc. etc. My track count is noticeably higher in Reaper, this isn't even arguable. Single core performance wise it being an older machine, it's through the roof how much better Reaper performs. I'm convinced it's not just anticipative FX etc. Reaper seems to distribute tasks across cores better than the others.

I love DP and Live, but both are total pigs compared to Reaper, and even Logic is. It's just a fact. If you truly believe it's a negligible difference prove it. I'm all for this kind of thing, I can max out any computer with a few well placed VSTi's it's always going to be this way, the latest Kontakt scripts that make their libraries sound like real instruments will punish your CPU, so will Repro-1 and 5 by U-He, and it sounds great! MPC2 and Maschine in a DAW can kill the best of them.

You and others are claiming Reaper doesn't significantly outperform Studio One now that it's not a pig, (on a reaper forum no less ), prove it. I'm tired of claims, I like facts.

[Aymara]

Originally Posted by machinesworking

You and others are claiming Reaper doesn't significantly outperform Studio One now that it's not a pig, (on a reaper forum no less ), prove it. I'm tired of claims, I like facts.

Fact is, that some people see no huge performance advantage in Reaper any more, when comparing to current versions of Logic and Studio One.

And it seems, that the hardware and OS used can make a difference. Don‘t forget, that though you are using a beast of a machine, it‘s nearly 10 years old.

I think this „performance war“ doesn‘t really make sense.

What counts are personal preferrences, the workflow for example. Everybody being interested can download demos of Reaper and S1 and check for themselves, if the performance is sufficient on their own machine and which DAW they like more.