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Old 12-22-2018, 02:06 AM   #81
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I know, omg another vs. thread... but I got really my difficulties to decide between these 2...
These help me choose threads just outline brand preference and really don't do anything to justify one product over another. Unfortunately, you are going to have to make up your own mind, and you will be better off this way.

The truth no one wants to face is that most users of these DAW softwares have not yet developed the talent necessary to differentiate the minor differences between the softwares. Changing DAW software is not going to magically make anyone a better producer, arranger, musician, etc. It really is better to stop wasting time thinking about the minor differences in our tools and start pending that time actually learning how to use our tools better.
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Old 12-22-2018, 03:25 AM   #82
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originally post on wrong forum.

How is Reaper CPU efficient ?

I wanted a wearable solution in order to transfer sounds to my PO32 when i'm outside. so I tried to install microtonic on my old netbook.

I tested on 10 years old netbook, Atom processor (not a war lord).
OS Ubuntu 18.10 (stock kernel), Reaper windows edition started under Wine

3 tracks
3 plugins instruments : microtonic, 2 X synth1
3 effects : ReaEQ, ReaComp & Reaverbate

Result :
no audio glitches
CPU 50 % !!! (remenber that's old Atom)

Conclusion : which DAW on earth can be so versatible and so CPU efficient ?

That's not a powerfull audio workstation but more than enought to work outside and sketch some musical ideas.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1zr...3y1oLWEbsVm_qY




Oh, and i even manage to tranfert sounds to my PO32, which was the goal at first.
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Old 12-22-2018, 04:08 AM   #83
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Conclusion : which DAW on earth can be so versatible and so CPU efficient ?
Let me answer with a question: Which DAW has something like ReaMote included?

This is definitely a feature for huge projects or underpowered machines, that no other DAW delivers, right?

But again ... it all depends on personal preferences and needs, which is the best DAW (for your individual choice).

For me it‘s the combination of Reaper and S1, that satisfies all my needs. But the exchange of projects between the two is a nightmare, because Reaper doesn‘t support the needed export format, which makes the transfer of virtual instruments a huge hassle.
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Old 12-22-2018, 07:27 AM   #84
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I'm convinced it's not just anticipative FX etc. Reaper seems to distribute tasks across cores better than the others.
This sentence is enough to know all about your knowledge...
Thank you for this conversation...
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Old 12-22-2018, 07:32 AM   #85
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Let me answer with a question: Which DAW has something like ReaMote included?

This is definitely a feature for huge projects or underpowered machines, that no other DAW delivers, right?
That´s not really true...
Steinberg had this already before Reaper was born and there was even a vst plugin in the early 2000 brought over the same functionality...

I don´t know exactly, but I think Ableton link can be used as a ReaMote on steroids...
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Old 12-22-2018, 07:46 AM   #86
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That´s not really true...
Ok ... mmh ... maybe worth a separate thread.
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Old 12-22-2018, 04:20 PM   #87
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Whereas I understand the nature of this thread, I'm a bit confused about what you expect from it (on a Reaper forum).
Apparently you already made a decision against Reaper, because its workflow is too convoluted and inconsistent for your needs.

You are the only person who can tell what works best for you. Go and find out.
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Old 12-23-2018, 06:48 AM   #88
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I think, it explains best to quote my initial post here as many seem to have overlooked it:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trancit View Post
I know here are a lot ex S1 users...
What were special reasons for you leaving a great DAW behind and go with Reaper...
Do I miss something, which can lead into a trap when diggin deeper into S1??
Really curious here
Does this answer your question???
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Old 12-23-2018, 12:38 PM   #89
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Just got back online & came across this thread.
Am I the only one thinking Trancit is a shill, disguising his S1 propaganda as something else?

P.S. I used S1 for 2 versions before I gave up in disgust. V4 may well be better than it was earlier but I dont have time to waste playing about with it. Reaper isnt perfect but it works OK for me.
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Old 12-23-2018, 03:29 PM   #90
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Just got back online & came across this thread.
Am I the only one thinking Trancit is a shill, disguising his S1 propaganda as something else?

P.S. I used S1 for 2 versions before I gave up in disgust. V4 may well be better than it was earlier but I dont have time to waste playing about with it. Reaper isnt perfect but it works OK for me.
Ok, you got me... the truth is, I am a Presonus employee and I get commision for every Reaper user I can send them over...
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Old 12-23-2018, 03:33 PM   #91
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Ok, you got me... the truth is, I am a Presonus employee and I get commision for every Reaper user I can send them over...

And there was me thinking you were a really BIG yellow bird.....
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Old 12-24-2018, 09:06 AM   #92
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Ok, you got me... the truth is, I am a Presonus employee and I get commision for every Reaper user I can send them over...
From your early posts, you also collect commision from Image-line and even from Mr. Meng

Seriously, it seems like you are missing some functionality of other DAWS which is weak in REAPER. So really, why not use other software in parallel and get the best from different DAWs? You can even add Waveform to your collection, it has distinguishable workflow and own approach with chords and patterns.

When choosing the new DAW after CW, I have found there is no choice at all for the list of my needs and wishes.
My major need probably have no value for you:
1) REAPER is the only DAW which still has C++ extensions
2) REAPER and Samplidute are the only truly accessible DAWs

What can have some value for you:
3) REAPER is the only DAW which can be authorized without Internet and dongles. In practice that means:
3.a) in case your computer for some hardware/software reason changes the ID and you are not online, you can be in trouble with any other DAW
3.b) you can be sure that in 20-30 years you are still able to load REAPER (may be under Wine on quantum computer... who knows). There is no guarantee you can do that with any other DAW.

And finally my personal Presonus specific worries:
4) they was fast in changing or declaring obsolete functionality in own products. Check the history of audio interfaces. 32bit is may be no longer actual, but they was fast in forgetting it.
5) the argumentation why is something is not there sounds a bit offensive for me, f.e. check the explanation why Quantum has no build-in DSP.
6) they artificially lock features to own eco-system, f.e. check Quantuma features in Studio One vs other DAWs.
7) back in time I have explicitly asked about a possibility of extension API (specifically for control surfaces) in the future. The answer was negative.
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Old 12-24-2018, 04:15 PM   #93
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I use both and frankly I think both are great and wouldn't use anything else but either one or both.

Anyway, it actually does have scripting support. It's an undocumented feature currently but it works really well and uses JavaScript. I've cobbled together quite a few of my own little useful things.

Anyway, I like them both. Merry XMas.
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Old 12-25-2018, 02:13 AM   #94
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Hi !

I am very interested in the scripting capability in S1.
Long time ago, i read some things about it but i was under assumption that it was not supported anymore in the current version of S1.
In the S1 forum there is also little to none info on scripting.

One of the main reasons why i use Reaper is the Custom Actions & Scripting features, to make my own speedy workflows, which i mucn enjoy.

Do you maybe gave some links regarding S1 scripting and maybe an example of 1 of your own S1 Scripts ?

Thanks very much in advance !
Warm Regards.
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Old 12-25-2018, 06:38 AM   #95
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I faced the same issue after purchasing a Presonus Audiobox96 which came with Studio One 3. Although I installed Studio One and it no doubt is perfectly capable, if you have invested 100's of hours in familiarising yourself with, and using, Reaper, then why throw that away if it does what you want?
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Old 12-25-2018, 07:12 AM   #96
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I own both DAWs (Reaper 5 and Studio One 4 Pro).

Studio One 4 Pro:
+ GUI interface integrity
+ workspaces
+ instruments, samplers, sounds

- complicated tracks, busses, FX, VCA
- no surround support
- installation of goodies is somehow blunt
+ restrictive policy on features, plugins, scripts (WTF!)


Reaper 5:
+ surround
+ low on comp. resources
+ great routing
+ skins (lots of skins)
+ licensing (practically it is "free" and cheap for personal use)
+ customisation (no other DAW is like that)

- skins (can be difficult to manage: icons, colours, presets)
- GUI is so customisable to the point of ruining the workflow
- toolpanels are so unintuitive!
- customisation (can get lost in options)
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Old 12-25-2018, 08:15 AM   #97
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...and maybe an example of 1 of your own S1 Scripts ?

Thanks very much in advance !
Warm Regards.
One example is that I built my own external instrument patch manager for hardware synths that uses Cubase definitions, to fill that somewhat obvious gap.

The app is probably more "primed" underneath for scripting than most daws other than Reaper. It using JS a lot behind the scenes is probably why it's a bit more sensitive to anti-virus than most daws. A lot of that stuff like the macro toolbar is JS.

It's kinda (the entire app or user interface) like a web page sitting on top their CCL (Crytal Class Library) C++ framework. Not as powerful as Reaper's multiple scripting languages and public API (no surprise there) but much easier to use, especially as relates to GUI's, which are xml skins. Hopefully they'll publish or document some of it at some point.

At any rate, if a person is happy with Reaper I don't see any reason to look elsewhere. Be happy, make music.
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Old 12-27-2018, 03:39 AM   #98
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Just for grins I downloaded the current basic/free version of S1 - 4.

And yes they have fixed a fair bit of the stuff that used to piss me off...
My upgrade price is apparently 129 UK pounds, which seems a little on the high side for an update from an existing Pro version, but I will have a think about it.
FWIW I still dont like their built-in instruments very much, even in the latest version.

I am also fiddling around with the Bandaid version of Cakewalk Sonar ( I own the old Pro version) & between the three DAWs there are bits I like & bits I don`t like in all three. Decisions, decisions.
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Old 12-30-2018, 02:06 AM   #99
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Just for grins I downloaded the current basic/free version of S1 - 4.

And yes they have fixed a fair bit of the stuff that used to piss me off...
My upgrade price is apparently 129 UK pounds, which seems a little on the high side for an update from an existing Pro version, but I will have a think about it.
FWIW I still dont like their built-in instruments very much, even in the latest version.

I am also fiddling around with the Bandaid version of Cakewalk Sonar ( I own the old Pro version) & between the three DAWs there are bits I like & bits I don`t like in all three. Decisions, decisions.
I hope, I haven´t infected you
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Old 12-30-2018, 02:19 AM   #100
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FWIW I still dont like their built-in instruments very much, even in the latest version.
They are certainly way better than REAPERS
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Old 12-30-2018, 02:32 AM   #101
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I am always dreaming of developing my own DAW which has all the goodness of all other DAW's and with the ommitment of all the bad things in other DAW's.
And in all my arrogance, having used many DAW's from early 90ties, and constantly visited all DAW forums, i am certain what other DAW users want and don't want in a DAW. (again: this is highly arrogant, i know !).

My own DAW will be even more superior than Reaper and it will have a GUI that doesn't look really awful on a Retina mac (lol)

Sadly enough i am totally no (C++) music software programmer.
Yeah, i will just keep on dreaming.
To be honest, making music is not really my passion, my passion lies more in music software research, discovering what is all possible/impossible, creating ultra speedy workflows etc.
I am always been fascinated by music software technologies.
For now, doing all my audio/music work in Reaper, making a good living out of this work and i am quite satisfied enough with Reaper.
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Old 12-30-2018, 05:03 AM   #102
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Love S1. Switched earlier this year. Luckily turned out to be a good time for it, as many of my everyday usage features (mostly mouse behaviors etc) were implemented in v3.x. Now v4 has great features for writing music and some CPU improvements if you become familiar with how to utilize them.

REAPER’s pros and cons have been thoroughly summed up in this thread. I’m sure there’s some work I’ll be using it for here and there. But after scripting a bunch of commands and effects myself I started asking myself, “has some other company thought this out already?” The answer was yes, many of them have. Pro Tools and S1 seem to have the most well conceived workflow and behaviors. I could have scripted nearly all of Studio One’s mouse functionality in REAPER, but I dont have to. And new features fit the same paradigm. That is worth far more than the cost of S1 in my own time and effort.

Good luck with the choice! And remember, at some point constantly switching DAWs on the hunt for “the right one” becomes counterproductive!
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Old 12-30-2018, 05:14 AM   #103
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They are certainly way better than REAPERS
IMHO this is not a discussion point at all.
Are they better than all the free stuff that is available anywhere ?

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Old 12-30-2018, 05:19 AM   #104
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i am certain what other DAW users want and don't want in a DAW. (again: this is highly arrogant, i know !).
That is a really decent attitude, especially as you go on writing about your DAW, which I am sure would be a good choice for many (but of course not for all or even a majority of) potential DAW enthusiasts.

I feel that your posts in the forum already helped a lot of us to get along in Reaper world !

Happy New Year !
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Old 12-30-2018, 05:23 AM   #105
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Love S1. Switched earlier this year. Luckily turned out to be a good time fo switching DAWs on the hunt for “the right one” becomes counterproductive!
Exactly this is a point for Reaper, as same is not (only) a DAW, but a tool to create (or have somebody create) "your" DAW (of course within certain limits), as well.

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Old 12-30-2018, 09:21 AM   #106
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Did Presonus ever get around to silly things like clip grouping?
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Old 12-30-2018, 06:47 PM   #107
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Exactly this is a point for Reaper, as same is not (only) a DAW, but a tool to create (or have somebody create) "your" DAW (of course within certain limits), as well.

-Michael
What if the “right DAW” is basically Studio One and I would rather get my work done than build and update my own DAW using REAPER as some convoluted back end?

My two cents I still use REAPER for lightweight mobile tracking and music video playback (infrequently) and it’s really excellent for specialized tasks like that.

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Old 12-30-2018, 06:51 PM   #108
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Did Presonus ever get around to silly things like clip grouping?
They don’t have this feature yet, if you really want it everyone’s free to constructively get involved with the process of improving the software via their forums. It’s not as direct as with Cockos (a major pro for REAPER if you enjoy spending time improving software) but they really do respond to their user base. Some low priority features, with a little campaigning and education, were raised in priority. And it’s nice that it’s not designed by committee, so when your feature finally arrives it at least is coherent with the rest of the program.
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Old 12-31-2018, 12:08 AM   #109
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What if the “right DAW” is basically Studio One...
Of course once you do know which one the right DAW especially for your current and future needs is, why hesitate ?

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Old 12-31-2018, 03:48 AM   #110
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They don’t have this feature yet, if you really want it everyone’s free to constructively get involved with the process of improving the software via their forums. It’s not as direct as with Cockos (a major pro for REAPER if you enjoy spending time improving software) but they really do respond to their user base. Some low priority features, with a little campaigning and education, were raised in priority. And it’s nice that it’s not designed by committee, so when your feature finally arrives it at least is coherent with the rest of the program.
As far as I understand - they call it Audio parts and works in the same manner as selection groups. You can make or dissolve them.

Sometimes it's naming stuff that differ.

There is also track grouping - which others call link groups like faders follow etc. But they are also extended to some editing features. Sounds a bit dangerous, so I use VCA's for that link grouping instead.
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Old 12-31-2018, 03:54 AM   #111
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As far as I understand - they call it Audio parts and works in the same manner as selection groups. You can make or dissolve them.
While this is a very nice feature and can partly be used as a substitute, it is far away from clip grouping as it 1. only works with audio and 2. only on the same track...
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Old 12-31-2018, 03:58 AM   #112
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Even if this will surprise many of you:

Studio One lost the race against Reaper for me...

It´s a very nice DAW and has many features I like better respectively their implementation as in Reaper but at the very end nothing justifies for me buying a new DAW for nearly 400,-€...

I am not 100% happy with Reaper but their isn´t any real showstopper neither...

Nevertheless thx to all posting their opinions here...very appreciated (or much...?)
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Old 12-31-2018, 08:44 AM   #113
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I am not 100% happy with Reaper ...
You'll find a lot help here about alternate workflows and additions to make it feel more comfortable.

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Old 12-31-2018, 01:12 PM   #114
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They are certainly way better than REAPERS
Not hardly, as reaper doesn`t really have any instruments per se.

OOPS! Forgot the didnt I?


Hence the instruments I use are all perfect for my needs, unlike the half-assed stuff that you get with sonar Studio One etc.

Now I will admit that the instruments included with Logic are pretty decent, but there again I wasnt that enamoured with Logic Pro 9 whilst working on a friends album recently for him. Maybe L10 is better...
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Old 12-31-2018, 05:51 PM   #115
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Fact is, that some people see no huge performance advantage in Reaper any more, when comparing to current versions of Logic and Studio One.

And it seems, that the hardware and OS used can make a difference. Don‘t forget, that though you are using a beast of a machine, it‘s nearly 10 years old.

I think this „performance war“ doesn‘t really make sense.

What counts are personal preferrences, the workflow for example. Everybody being interested can download demos of Reaper and S1 and check for themselves, if the performance is sufficient on their own machine and which DAW they like more.
No malice, but performance should not vary from machine to machine in terms of pure CPU. DAWs IMO all handle streaming audio pretty well, the big factor here isn't the machine, it's the DAWs ability to process multiple FX and VSTi's before it affects the audio, period. You simply aren't going to have better performance on Studio One on a newer machine VS Reaper and worse on my machine, that's nonsense. It's all up to you what DAW you use, and CPU efficiency isn't the only reason to use a DAW of course, but claims have been made, that are patently wrong IMO. I'm pretty DAW agnostic, so I have a few to test and I'm back home.

Just a quick test using DIva in "Best" mode, INIT patch, not using it's multicore ability to keep numbers of instances to a minimum. All DAWs set to 44.1khz 128 buffer, using any method they have for efficiency. Simple 1/4 note mono bass line. 120bpm

Live 10 - 8 tracks

Logic - 10 tracks

DP9.52 - 11 tracks

Reaper - 12 tracks

This is pretty normal, Logic at 83% of Reaper, Live at 66%
this has been consistent with every computer I've owned, Reaper gives 15-30% more CPU headroom than your average DAW, and 55-66% of what Live, Bitwig etc. can do.

I have MPC2.3 on here as well as the demo of Bitwig 2, both came in at 8 instances like Live does, not surprising at all.

The only difference from last time were slightly worse performance out of Reaper and better performance out of DP. Basically Reaper is always more efficient CPU wise.
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Old 01-01-2019, 02:19 AM   #116
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Originally Posted by machinesworking View Post
No malice, but performance should not vary from machine to machine in terms of pure CPU.
Before I bought my iMac Pro, I did a lot of research, if it‘s really worth it and found user reports of former Mac Pro users, who moved to an iMac Pro and the later had much better performance, though both have a Xeon CPU, but the iMac with less (!) cores in this case.

So far for „CPU doesn‘t matter much“
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Old 01-01-2019, 02:44 AM   #117
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As in most DAWs, the tracks are able to each use an OS execution thread and with this it's own CPU (if available), it's obvious that the number of CPU cores doe matter (provided all other parameters are identical).

OTOH the count of instructions per second also does matter in a similar way (provided all other parameters are identical).

Now with the existing chips / architectures / generations, ... there are variants trading more cores against less instructions per second (as both affect the total thermal power generated which limits the performance until overheating). It depends on the kind of software executed which might be the best choice in that balance.

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Old 01-01-2019, 03:14 AM   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
It depends on the kind of software executed which might be the best choice in that balance.
And we shouldn‘t forget, that many plugins only use one core ... and usually those sum up on the first one.

Nevertheless ... I just wanted to point out, that a 9 year old „power machine“ isn‘t the best reference machine for performance comparisons and that a lot has happened ... be it more powerful hardware or the DAW competition getting better performance wise, at least S1 and Logic as it seems.
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Old 01-01-2019, 04:36 AM   #119
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Some pros and cons: see -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTWuOnE0L74

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Old 01-01-2019, 04:41 AM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aymara View Post
And we shouldn‘t forget, that many plugins only use one core ... and usually those sum up on the first one.
Why do you think so ?

AFAIU, a VST is even forced to use (at least) two threads: one for the GUI and one for the Audio.

Now the UI thread is a single one for all parts of the GUI (including the DAW and all VSTs), and the (primary) Audio thread is assigned to the VST by the DAW, and here (by default) it's one per track and hence (in many cases) one per instance of the VST.

And there is no "rank" regarding the cores available in hardware (some exceptions with certain dedicated mobile chips).

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