Old 04-30-2019, 03:27 AM   #241
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Readouts like this are really weird.

What if all three readouts were written above each other in three lines in smaller font, taking a vertical space of a single TCP element and considered as a single TCP element. Then they could be placed somewhere in a row. Or, they could be placed under mute solo buttons.

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Old 04-30-2019, 03:51 AM   #242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bFooz View Post
Readouts like this are really weird.
If you don't like them, disable them. This has been thought through, I assure you. They were disabled in the starting default layout of the V5 theme, and will probably be on this one as well. Why?



...because if the goal is to provide the user with information, saying it three times isn't strictly necessary.

We're going to have to agree to disagree on this, I think.
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Old 04-30-2019, 04:21 AM   #243
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Thanks a lot for your work!
Transport: Please add the option to change the grid settings from a dropdown menu on the transport , it's very basic and useful for everyone, new and old users!
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Old 04-30-2019, 04:38 AM   #244
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Quote:
Originally Posted by White Tie View Post
If you don't like them, disable them. This has been thought through, I assure you. They were disabled in the starting default layout of the V5 theme, and will probably be on this one as well. Why?



...because if the goal is to provide the user with information, saying it three times isn't strictly necessary.

We're going to have to agree to disagree on this, I think.
I'm just reporting what seems to me to be a small imperfection of display, it's not an opinion. If you decide it's "normal", ok, no discussion, you're the creator.
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Old 04-30-2019, 05:03 AM   #245
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent Sermonne View Post
If you decide it's "normal", ok, no discussion, you're the creator.
This is a misconception. I'm not deciding between your feedback and doing what I want, and deciding to do what I want. I'm weighing up your feedback (and there are plenty of people who share your view) alongside the views of thousands of other users, discussions had over the years, things observed during testing, all the myriad restrictions of the theming system and the result is always a compromise that disappoints someone.

If you want to see what me doing what I want looks like, look at my personal themes. They look nothing like this.

I invite everyone to continue providing their feedback. If I don't action it, please believe I have listened and made a difficult decision, I've not casually and callously decided you're wrong.

Well, mostly; there is the occasional person who is just wrong
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Old 04-30-2019, 06:30 AM   #246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bFooz View Post
When the transport is docked, it uses that space which could be used by toolbars. There is a dedicated transport position "Top of main window" and in this way, there can be three layers above arrange (pic) - transport, top toolbar, docked toolbar.

But when the toolbar is in this position, it stretches the whole width of the screen making some of good space wasted with the current layout.

Yep, exactly, thanks for elaborating!
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Old 04-30-2019, 07:32 AM   #247
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Quote:
Originally Posted by White Tie View Post
This is a misconception. I'm not deciding between your feedback and doing what I want, and deciding to do what I want. I'm weighing up your feedback (and there are plenty of people who share your view) alongside the views of thousands of other users, discussions had over the years, things observed during testing, all the myriad restrictions of the theming system and the result is always a compromise that disappoints someone.

If you want to see what me doing what I want looks like, look at my personal themes. They look nothing like this.
Yes, there seems to be a misconception by some that the default theme is based on your (WT) personal taste, when it really has to be designed for new users and everyone else. An impossible task, with much compromise... And, no one completely happy! But, all unhappy about different aspects B)
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Old 04-30-2019, 07:37 AM   #248
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I can't add things to the transport. But you can add things to toolbars. I don't see how I can help you with this.
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Old 04-30-2019, 07:57 AM   #249
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The images WT posts are broken here. Is it only me?
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Old 04-30-2019, 07:59 AM   #250
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I can see that image fine here. Try a different browser?
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Old 04-30-2019, 08:03 AM   #251
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Indeed, Firefox blocks it:
SSL_ERROR_BAD_CERT_DOMAIN
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Old 04-30-2019, 08:10 AM   #252
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Stevie_ View Post
Indeed, Firefox blocks it:
SSL_ERROR_BAD_CERT_DOMAIN
Firefox here, no problem. Are you using any extension to change HTTP headers? His site is still on HTTP.
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Old 04-30-2019, 08:11 AM   #253
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Right, tracker blocker (Ghostery) disabled for this site. Works now, thanks!
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Old 04-30-2019, 09:09 AM   #254
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Originally Posted by _Stevie_ View Post
Right, tracker blocker (Ghostery) disabled for this site. Works now, thanks!
Don't use Ghostery. Use native tracker blocker + uBlock origin and NoScript instead of ghostery.
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Make a thread "F%#! you Reaper! I quit!" to get more views and feedback since these kind of threads get much more traction
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Old 04-30-2019, 09:25 AM   #255
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Originally Posted by vitalker View Post
NoScript
I'm not sure how breaking almost any modern website can be considered a good idea.
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Old 04-30-2019, 09:28 AM   #256
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Originally Posted by Lokasenna View Post
I'm not sure how breaking almost any modern website can be considered a good idea.
How said it should block all the scripts by default?
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Old 04-30-2019, 10:01 AM   #257
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NoScript's website says that - "trusted websites of your choice", "whitelisting", etc.

For instance:
Quote:
You can enable JavaScript, Java and plugin execution for sites you trust with a simple left-click on the NoScript status bar icon...
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Old 04-30-2019, 10:09 AM   #258
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NoScript's website says that - "trusted websites of your choice", "whitelisting", etc.
A lot of offtopic comments here. If you haven't used it, try it firstly. You can choose on options page what should be enabled by default. Don't trust me or that page, try it yourself.
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Old 04-30-2019, 10:36 AM   #259
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I am confused. I love this new theme but many of the pre-version 6 icons look silly alongside the newer design. Do you know if there will be new icons with the v6 theme or are mixing and matching now moving forward/ Justcurious. It looks a bit amateurish to have crayon icons alongside these sleek sexy new v6 ones that are with the WT theme
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Old 04-30-2019, 10:51 AM   #260
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This is extremely enjoyable. Very beautiful layout and feels intuitive.
Congratz and thanks
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Old 04-30-2019, 10:57 AM   #261
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I like the button transparency in MCP.

Problem on the pic is that it's hard to distinguish which control is engaged and which is not. Maybe make all engaged buttons fully opaque to match the routing button?

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Old 04-30-2019, 11:09 AM   #262
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TCP envelope:

- when the envelope panel is selected, the left-side edge of highlight does not respect the folder indentation.

- envelope name is too short

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Old 04-30-2019, 11:39 AM   #263
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I agree with bFooz. It is difficult to work with semitransparent buttons
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Old 04-30-2019, 12:13 PM   #264
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowellben View Post
I am confused. I love this new theme but many of the pre-version 6 icons look silly alongside the newer design. Do you know if there will be new icons with the v6 theme or are mixing and matching now moving forward/ Justcurious. It looks a bit amateurish to have crayon icons alongside these sleek sexy new v6 ones that are with the WT theme
I very much agree with this.

Since this is only Alpha release, I really hope that in the final version all buttons would move from "3D look" to a flat design, something that we see for FX, Route & Envelope buttons... I love them.
______________


Another thing that I really hope would be addressed is Midi Editor.
Piano Roll with these "3d" black keys is just not eye-pleasing.


A very good example would be Concerto theme by Blankfiles... it is so balanced in terms of colors and slickness.... I have very high hopes for this new V6 design and I'm sure that White Tie can pull it off.

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tl;td
I really think it's time to move from Reaper 2006 look into Reaper 2019 by implementing flat design for every element that is there... faders, knobs, keys etc.




p.s. Thank you for "building" tool <3
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Old 04-30-2019, 01:43 PM   #265
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Hey White Tie,

First of, great work on the new theme. It looks very much like an upgrade from the existing V5 theme.

One question though, if you are at liberty to tell, is there a reason why the people in charge decided to go with a "same but different" approach instead of going "all in" with a complete new look?

I think that as long as the devs keep this look and color scheme, REAPER will always be looked upon as the Linux of DAWs or the indie game studio of DAWs. It has nothing to do with your work, I'd just love if the REAPER gods would allow their DAW to have a more "professional" and user-friendly look, as some themers (like yourself) already showed it was possible.

Thanks and keep up the good work!
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Old 04-30-2019, 02:24 PM   #266
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I'm not involved in this alpha testing but I cannot stop myself to comment what I can see on Images. Ahh. After you read this, you gonna hate me. You've been warned

I'm talking about style of buttons, knobs etc. Let's check out:



Play button looks like made from aluminium, record is like coated glossy plastic, repeat is like touch button on my oven. Stop, pause, home/end... yet another style don't seem to mimic any physical element, for unknown reason hovering over the background.

Let's jump to another one:



While record button is at least consistent with transport record one, volume knob is for some reason "made with the same material" as play button. It's not true anymore for balance knobs which look like being sketched. Mute/Solo buttons look like matte plastic, matching no any other element in GUI.

Route, FX, trim buttons are also inconsistent. Even elements which are bulging, have different shape of relief.
To me it looks like uncontrolled mix of flat, 3d and half-isometric one. Some

Please don't take it personal, but this is not the look I would expect from professional software. I know, at the end there will be other themes. But default one (if it's going to be default) should looks like a toolbox. Not mix of tools collected for last 10 years.

I just hope, this is a kind of placeholder, replaced with final gfx


PS. Heheh, I wrote this post without reading recent contributions to this thread. It seems I'm not alone with my findings.

Last edited by MaXyM; 04-30-2019 at 03:03 PM.
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Old 04-30-2019, 02:27 PM   #267
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bri1 View Post
hmm-do we not exist in a 3d reality?

2d is soooo..borrrringgg? --ahhhhh yaawwnz.
it seems this theme is not up for forum design debates m8's-creator has mind madeup..?
creator rules own roost-creator knows bestests... this is a' my precioussssss' =)

when using computers--i think it's essential to retain some kind of depths to all visual elements-- when user is not using natural eye zooming to clearly observe depth of field--eye strain happens 100x quicker..>?
a lot of blurriness may also come from poorly calibrated monitors-and a lot of part_time users rarely set any proper colour managements at graphic card level..pre daw colour enhancements+sharpening tools not used..
brightness/contrast//dynamic monitors are very common... having the correct display ratios helps..

please-retain 3d--more depth=more interest for basic human eye zoomz.
clowns,robots+amateurs--might make a great album title.. ? yeayea
oh+ i do not believe straight lines actually occur very often in nature.. space is apparently..curved? and straight lines actually break the universe..ses..?

I don't think we are talking about the same things.

Maybe I used the wrong terminology ?

What I mean by "3D look" is that obnoxious shadows on buttons/menus that were very popular in early 2000's in order to create a fake depth of field in their software.
You would find it in Windows XP, Vista or OSX till Mavericks... it was "a thing" for designers back then.

It looks very unprofessional and poor chose right now.
For people to understand what I'm talking about... Here is an example:

Obnoxious:


Reasonable:




So right now we have obnoxious buttons almost everywhere in V5...
Once I saw new flat buttons on FX, Route & Envelope... I really am in anticipation for redesign of other elements, because otherwise, as was mention prior, it would look amateur to mix two concepts.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Herr Nox View Post
Hey White Tie,

First of, great work on the new theme. It looks very much like an upgrade from the existing V5 theme.

One question though, if you are at liberty to tell, is there a reason why the people in charge decided to go with a "same but different" approach instead of going "all in" with a complete new look?

I think that as long as the devs keep this look and color scheme, REAPER will always be looked upon as the Linux of DAWs or the indie game studio of DAWs. It has nothing to do with your work, I'd just love if the REAPER gods would allow their DAW to have a more "professional" and user-friendly look, as some themers (like yourself) already showed it was possible.

Thanks and keep up the good work!
Can't agree more!

I think it's a great time/opportunity to make a change for the better in this regard.

The main reason why people switch to different themes from default is not because there is such vast selection of themes... it's because of the imperfection of a default one.


Edit: lol MaXyM summarized my thoughts in much better fashion. We wrote our independent thoughts almost at the same time. So I really hope this issue would not stay unnoticed.

Last edited by inarisound; 04-30-2019 at 02:37 PM.
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Old 04-30-2019, 03:05 PM   #268
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I'm not going to do design by committee on the forum, for the reasons discussed. Sorry.
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Old 04-30-2019, 03:42 PM   #269
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Quote:
Originally Posted by White Tie View Post
I'm not going to do design by committee on the forum, for the reasons discussed. Sorry.
I understand and respect that. On the other hand V6 would have been THE opportunity to create a consistent GUI. There are so many design elements that just don't fit together at all, as Maxym pointed out.
No offense, just an observation.
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Old 04-30-2019, 03:54 PM   #270
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None taken. Your observation is explained in the first post.
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Old 04-30-2019, 04:01 PM   #271
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herr Nox View Post
Hey White Tie,

First of, great work on the new theme. It looks very much like an upgrade from the existing V5 theme.

One question though, if you are at liberty to tell, is there a reason why the people in charge decided to go with a "same but different" approach instead of going "all in" with a complete new look?

I think that as long as the devs keep this look and color scheme, REAPER will always be looked upon as the Linux of DAWs or the indie game studio of DAWs. It has nothing to do with your work, I'd just love if the REAPER gods would allow their DAW to have a more "professional" and user-friendly look, as some themers (like yourself) already showed it was possible.

Thanks and keep up the good work!
I agree. I see white ties work as very high end art and these themes 5 and 6 never excited me. To me his amazing artistic ability is not even being used with this flat theme. Just look at stillwell plugs and the other things he has done. I was hoping they would at least make it easier for everyone to theme but that doesnt appear to be coming either.
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Old 04-30-2019, 04:04 PM   #272
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inarisound View Post
I don't think we are talking about the same things.

Maybe I used the wrong terminology ?

What I mean by "3D look" is that obnoxious shadows on buttons/menus that were very popular in early 2000's in order to create a fake depth of field in their software.
You would find it in Windows XP, Vista or OSX till Mavericks... it was "a thing" for designers back then.

It looks very unprofessional and poor chose right now.
For people to understand what I'm talking about... Here is an example:

Obnoxious:



Reasonable:




So right now we have obnoxious buttons almost everywhere in V5...
Once I saw new flat buttons on FX, Route & Envelope... I really am in anticipation for redesign of other elements, because otherwise, as was mention prior, it would look amateur to mix two concepts.





Can't agree more!

I think it's a great time/opportunity to make a change for the better in this regard.

The main reason why people switch to different themes from default is not because there is such vast selection of themes... it's because of the imperfection of a default one.


Edit: lol MaXyM summarized my thoughts in much better fashion. We wrote our independent thoughts almost at the same time. So I really hope this issue would not stay unnoticed.
I would much prefer a realistic hardware theme like imperial where the controls and panels look like serious art and are neither flat or glossy obnoxious but thats just my preference.
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Old 04-30-2019, 04:26 PM   #273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by White Tie View Post
I'm not going to do design by committee on the forum, for the reasons discussed. Sorry.
Dont be sorry man, you are making the right decision.

In the end it will not please everyone, but i am sure it will be the compromise that maximizes usability for the largest number of users.

As far as i am concerned you have proven your ability to find that compromise several times, and i am sure you will find it this time as well.

Thanks.
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Old 04-30-2019, 04:47 PM   #274
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Originally Posted by franzwam View Post
@White-Tie

I got it !

Wooh it was a tough one !

It only affects Layouts B and C. Layout A is OK.
And once the problem has occured, even Layout A is "corrupted".

I smell the uninitialized variable somewhere.

A way to reproduce it 100% on my rig is:

1/ Launch Reaper
2/ Add 2 tracks
3/ Rename the first track (either short or too long for the current display)
4/ Open script panel
5/ Apply the desired layout (B or C) with "Auto" length for the track name
6/ Rename the second track with a longer name than the 1st one
7/ Apply whatever layout
8/ See a bug ?
I have found it, I have killed it. And I am absolutely 100% sure I would not have managed it without your repro. We did this together, thanks so much man.
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Old 04-30-2019, 05:24 PM   #275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by White Tie View Post
I'm not going to do design by committee on the forum, for the reasons discussed. Sorry.

I sense 'Diva' vibes in that reply.

Nobody is asking to make a design by committee... all we ask for consistency.

You have helped community a lot in the past (still do), and nobody is arguing with that, but creating defense mechanism only based on previous unfortunate interactions will bring you to your demise (creative and functional).

If you hate so much experimenting and produce new designs why taking that gig?
Hand it over to other people that enjoy that process and have delivered consistent quality designs ( Blankfiles [forum user], pureav [UI designer of Serum, Sylenth and most used Ableton theme]).

In fact, I already asked Justin if that would've been a possibility, and from his reply I think he was not against it, but most likely it would be hard decision for him to not get you on board first.


tl;td If you don't enjoy what you are doing, just hand it to people that do enjoy it. Win win for both sides.

Default Theme in it's current form reminds me an entry level design student, trying to boast how many techniques he/she knows.
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Old 04-30-2019, 05:49 PM   #276
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EDIT: My question was answered in the OP.

Last edited by ReaMike; 05-01-2019 at 03:21 PM.
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Old 04-30-2019, 06:19 PM   #277
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I like a lot the new design! It seems like a much better REAPER.
I disagree with a default design: REAPER which trying to seem SOMETHING ELSE.
Bravo White Tie, keep doing your good work!
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Old 04-30-2019, 06:19 PM   #278
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y ya que estamos... a mi me gustaría que tuviera una herramienta como el variaudio de cubase
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Old 04-30-2019, 07:11 PM   #279
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inarisound View Post
I sense 'Diva' vibes in that reply.

Nobody is asking to make a design by committee... all we ask for consistency.

tl;td If you don't enjoy what you are doing, just hand it to people that do enjoy it. Win win for both sides.

Default Theme in it's current form reminds me an entry level design student, trying to boast how many techniques he/she knows.
Well then you'll be glad to know that Reaper allows you to choose from a wide variety of themes, available in the Stash and some also in ReaPack. Perhaps one of those won't seem as though it were made by "an entry-level design student trying to boast how many techiniques he/she knows".

And then there are those of us (ahem) who aren't so strongly offended by button A looking like glass and knob B looking like aluminum...perhaps some of us even find value in that, so that the different elements are quickly distinguishable at a glance. (No, we don't ALL ask for "consistency" such as you do.)

But I guess that goes against the absolute 100% objective rules of UX or whatever, right?

Diva vibes. Lol. The irony.
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Old 04-30-2019, 07:17 PM   #280
Kenny Gioia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inarisound View Post

Default Theme in it's current form reminds me an entry level design student, trying to boast how many techniques he/she knows.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coachz View Post
I would much prefer a realistic hardware theme like imperial where the controls and panels look like serious art and are neither flat or glossy obnoxious but thats just my preference.
I think if I had to guess, I would say that many of you who don't like the V6 theme also didn't like the V5 theme. Which is fine.

But if I'm also guessing, I'd say that WT is trying to improve the V5 theme in making the V6 one. Not trying to create some great looking Imperial-esque theme. So I think it needs to be judged along those lines.

V5 theme was the vanilla theme. It's not chocolate. It's not strawberry. It doesn't want to be pistachio. It wants to be the best version of vanilla. And if you don't like vanilla, that may be confusing for you. You may see this as a great opportunity to create the best chocolate theme that's ever been created. That's not what this is though.

Embrace "Vanilla".
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