How do you use drums?

[metallicaguy1]

I was wondering what drum program you all use, how you use it, etc. I use ez drummer 2. Sometimes I use the search to find feature, but often I go through the browser to find loops that fit. I plan on getting a midi keyboard so I can custom create my drums. What about you guys? What's your preferred method/ program? Pros, cons? Fav feature? I'm just curious.

[Glennbo]

Originally Posted by metallicaguy1

I was wondering what drum program you all use, how you use it, etc. I use ez drummer 2. Sometimes I use the search to find feature, but often I go through the browser to find loops that fit. I plan on getting a midi keyboard so I can custom create my drums. What about you guys? What's your preferred method/ program? Pros, cons? Fav feature? I'm just curious.

I bought and used EZ-Drummer for a while, then I won the Summer song contest at Toontrack and got a free copy of Drumkit From Hell Superior which was the name for Superior Drummer 1. Then I paid to upgrade from that to Superior Drummer 2, but now I use acoustic drums with mics.

That said, I do still use Superior Drummer 2 for the canned midi loops, and will almost always select a midi drum loop that fits what I want to record on bass or guitar, and then once I've composed a whole song using that loop as my base groove, I'll replace it all playing real drums in one shot.

[DeathByGuitar]

I manually program my own drum parts if it's for my own music, but I'll have people play Superior Drummer with my Roland kit if I'm tracking for someone else.

[Glennbo]

Originally Posted by JamesPeters

A number of drum "romplers" have excellent "pattern creation" features, including EZDrummer 2.

Toontrack's midi loop selection is really pretty good, and I say that as primarily a drummer. I find their midi clips for the most part to be pretty usable, and if I didn't play drums, might assemble songs using their patterns.

[zeekat]

I'm programming mine with an Akai MPD controller. Fav feature is programmable colored backlights on every pad, it looks really festive, highly recommended.

[RobU]

For acoustic sounds, I use Addictive Drums. I have a fair collection of AdPaks, built up over a few years, and usually purchased when they have a 50% sale, which is about twice a year. (including right now if anyone is interested)

All AD mixer channels are sent post-fader to tracks in Reaper for further processing. All the outputs from AD are hidden in the TCP.

I rarely use the built in midi drum patterns, although as a starting point they can be useful. I prefer to finger-drum from scratch using a Korg padKontrol - the 16 pads mapped out as if I was sitting in front of a real kit (well, as much as you can with a 4 x 4 set of pads...).

MIDI is recorded in overdub mode onto the AD VSTi track, and built up in layers, input quantise is on, but loose, around 75%. It's quite rapid, start Reaper looping, practice the part a few time, hit Ctrl-R to drop in and out of recording mode, Ctrl-Z to undo if the take was crap (more often than not..), rinse, repeat. Once I'm happy with the part, I'll tidy it up in the MIDI editor.

I'm planning to get a foot controller soon so that I don't have to take my hands away from the pads when dropping in and out of record mode, which should speed up beat creation even more.

[Liemannen]

Superior Drummer 2 or EZ Drummer 2 for programming but I'll rather use samples from those for triggering acoustic drums with. Maybe blend in the samples around 20-30% or so just for some extra support.

[ivansc]

I have EZD2 SD3 AD Slate4 Platinum plus a bunch of other Drum Romplers, all of which have decent sounds for one thing or another.
What I actually use 90% of the time is EZD2 or SD3. Mostly I either play in (badly) exactly what I want from my Rolanmd TD8 kit or my Korg Nanopad & edit any mistakes by hand after.
I do use the loops provided sometimes, if I want something quick and easy, generally editing or overdubbing once I have the song format solid.
But all the other romplers I also use to fatten or otherwise modify the basic sounds I am using by parallelling them.
I.E. More than one drum Rompler reading the same MIDI and then mix between the two kits to suit.
I like using this method as it adds greatly to the choices you have, your drum tracks dont sound just like everyone else`s and you get to audition with and without layering very easily by muting between kits and kit elements.

[Judders]

I use SD3.

I always programme from scratch. Sometimes I begin with a programmed drum part, sometimes I add the drum part to a guitar, bass or keyboard scratch track.

I loop each section and then glue so that I can add variations to each bar, ramp up velocity etc., and the last step before bouncing to audio for mixing is to humanise.

[Bri1]

I was wondering what drum program you all use, how you use it, etc.

Hell0yo-i use lots of different triggering softwares-they are all favourites in their own way. =)
Programmed and live keyboard playing is how i do,combinations of both.

A number of drum "romplers" have excellent "pattern creation"


I hardly use my MIDI keyboard because I find it faster to draw a beat and then add a roll or fill with eighth notes or triplets in the MIDI editor.

Aye- a lot of patterns are easily recognised after a short period-a human drummer always plays with subtle variations,so post midi editing is common here if have used preset patterns..tiny variations in the programming can be easy.
Actually find it much much quicker to just 'play the parts'-- using a few different midi keyboard controllers and the 10 fingers if feeling really energetic that day..
Finger drumming is waaaay more adventerous i find--- because of the proximity of the physical playing digits.____ practiced quite a bit and have developed my own 'techniques' along the way.
Contented+happy 'reaper' +reason user atmo. =)

This finger drumming has now lead me to think on developing a brand new type of "drum" for people to play.

[HugoRibeiroDotCom]

I sketch and compose(manually) with EZdrummer 2 and then I record the real thing.

cheers

[Softshell]

Years ago in Cakewalk, ProAud 8 thru Sonar 5, I entered the notes one by one in the staff view. Eventually set up 6 staffs - Kick, Snare, Toms, Hats, Rides, Crashes - routing them to individual outputs. That of course became a whole bunch easier once I figured Reaper's routing out. Then I sent the outs to, originally, various SoundFonts. Graduated through a myriad of Drum Samplers landing on an early, and cheap, version of Slate for Kontact 3 player. Sometime after abandoning the floundering Bakers I bit on a deal for Superior 2. Still used the same track setup with a couple mods to accommodate Superior's way of doing things. Since Reaper had no staff view at the time I'd had to use the Piano Roll but still entered individual notes one at a time, adjusting (and readjusting) velocities and placement.

The last year or so I've been micing live drums since at this point I have the capability, namely an ever developing and improving kit and room. I gotta say it's a whole lot more fun. Getting a decent sound is freakishly challenging. Not really a drummer there's a lot of slicing and dicing but turns out it's actually doable. Just a different way of sampling.

[Glennbo]

Originally Posted by Softshell

Years ago in Cakewalk, ProAud 8 thru Sonar 5, I entered the notes one by one in the staff view. Eventually set up 6 staffs - Kick, Snare, Toms, Hats, Rides, Crashes - routing them to individual outputs. That of course became a whole bunch easier once I figured Reaper's routing out. Then I sent the outs to, originally, various SoundFonts. Graduated through a myriad of Drum Samplers landing on an early, and cheap, version of Slate for Kontact 3 player. Sometime after abandoning the floundering Bakers I bit on a deal for Superior 2. Still used the same track setup with a couple mods to accommodate Superior's way of doing things. Since Reaper had no staff view at the time I'd had to use the Piano Roll but still entered individual notes one at a time, adjusting (and readjusting) velocities and placement.

The last year or so I've been micing live drums since at this point I have the capability, namely an ever developing and improving kit and room. I gotta say it's a whole lot more fun. Getting a decent sound is freakishly challenging. Not really a drummer there's a lot of slicing and dicing but turns out it's actually doable. Just a different way of sampling.

My default startup template in REAPER has Superior Drummer 2 setup with one MIDI input track, and six audio output channels that consist of kick, snare, toms, hihat, overheads, and room. I've got each of those channels pre-mixed with transient shapers, EQs, compressors, all being done in REAPER.

When I have an idea that I want to record on bass, guitar, or keys, I'll get the tempo established where I want it, then thumb through the MIDI groove loops in Superior until I find one that works with the part I'm trying to lay down. Most often I'll just drag the loop out to three or four minutes, and that will be my metronome for composing and recording all the remaining parts, and once the song has taken enough shape that it has a structure, I'll render the scratch track to a stem, and then either record a track still using Superior, but playing it from my V-Drums, or use my acoustic drums with mics. In either case, the original loop is blasting in my headphones as my metronome.

[melillo]

I use Aerodrums to trigger sounds from Ezdrummer2. It needs some editing to correct my timing slopiness and to remove ghost hits. Sometimes, I add fills I can't do myself from the ez library. I prefer playing with Aerodrums rather than a keyboard.

Marc

[cymbals]

I sampled my real drums for ease of composition, and then made some odd percussion things. I'm simply using Reaper's sampler reasamplomatic5000.

[Glennbo]

Originally Posted by cymbals

I sampled my real drums for ease of composition, and then made some odd percussion things. I'm simply using Reaper's sampler reasamplomatic5000.

I haven't tried using reasamplomatic5000. I did download and install "Grace" the sampler by One Small Clue, and then sampled all my own hand percussion into it. Since then I ported all those samples over to Kontakt.

It's real convenient being able to add believable shakers, tambourines, and other small hand percussion without having to put headphones on, get mic levels, Etc.

[Hooty Toledo]

I've been using drummic'a from Sennheiser since I found it looking for free drum samples a couple of years back.

I'm surprised how seldom it seems to get mentioned considering it's free, sounds pretty decent, and comes with plenty of built in patterns.

That said, I still wish I knew a good quality versatile drummer online to collaborate with, I would much prefer to work with a real human being given a choice.

[Philbo King]

I just play the drums and record them (sometimes midi, sometimes audio, sometimes both).

I figure I can spend 8 or 10 hours creating loops, fills, crashes; etc., or I can spend a half an hour doing 10 takes, and nail it by the 10th time.

[Hooty Toledo]

I envy you, Philbo. I have to program mine in the midi editor by hand. The last one took the best part of 40 hours to make, what with being OCD about variation, nuances, and wanting to audition multiple permeations for everything I do.

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by metallicaguy1

I was wondering what drum program you all use, how you use it, etc. I use ez drummer 2. Sometimes I use the search to find feature, but often I go through the browser to find loops that fit. I plan on getting a midi keyboard so I can custom create my drums. What about you guys? What's your preferred method/ program? Pros, cons? Fav feature? I'm just curious.

If you would like to use your midi keyboard these are the ticket (ain't cheap):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXI-iC84VhM

[Tod]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

If you would like to use your midi keyboard these are the ticket (ain't cheap):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXI-iC84VhM

Heh heh heh heh.........! Wow.

[ivansc]

I thought the OW stuff had bought the farm years back! Certainly no recent new development afaik.
Same for Mixosaurus & with what TT have put into SD who needs them?

[Chandlerhimself]

I’m using Jamstix and Mdrummer and then using them to drive Adactive drums. JS and MD do the fills and arrangements. I’ve just started doong things this way, but so far its been much faster and easier. I just switched to Reaper, but I think working this way and using regions is going to speed up my work flow alot.

[azimuth]

Jamstix

[Wolffman]

I haven't done anything for a long time now, ( computer down )
But i have only just last night got back up and running with a working system .
I generally work up the basic feel for the song in he midi editor ( just a couple of bars ) then ill put that in jamstix and build the song structure then let jamstix do its stuff.
This will generally get me 80% there, always a lot of editing and fine tuning
as the song progresses but its usually a good start.
I'll use jamstix to drive SD2 most of the time.

Cheers

[minerman]

Yamaha DTX532K combined with a DTX400 module, a few extra pads/cymbals, & an extra pc monitor mounted to my drum rack, with a 2nd keyboard/mouse...

While I've made a lot of progress in a year (almost), I still don't consider myself a real drummer, but it's a lot better than programming everything with a mouse...I still have to go over some things where I make mistakes, but it's still a lot faster, easier, & a lot more fun actually playing my drum parts now...

Eventually I wanna buy a real kit, mics, etc., & go that route...I'll have to wait until I find another pad though, I'm pretty much out of room & noise is an issue, so the e-kit will have to work for now...

[Softshell]

Originally Posted by Glennbo

My default startup template in REAPER has Superior Drummer 2 setup with one MIDI input track, and six audio output channels that consist of kick, snare, toms, hihat, overheads, and room. I've got each of those channels pre-mixed with transient shapers, EQs, compressors, all being done in REAPER.

When I have an idea that I want to record on bass, guitar, or keys, I'll get the tempo established where I want it, then thumb through the MIDI groove loops in Superior until I find one that works with the part I'm trying to lay down. Most often I'll just drag the loop out to three or four minutes, and that will be my metronome for composing and recording all the remaining parts, and once the song has taken enough shape that it has a structure, I'll render the scratch track to a stem, and then either record a track still using Superior, but playing it from my V-Drums, or use my acoustic drums with mics. In either case, the original loop is blasting in my headphones as my metronome.

That's pretty similar to my main project template except the MIDI tracks are separated. 6 MIDI 6 Audio. I've set up another template for Live Drums with 3 drum tracks, 2 OH & Kick. Hafta run the kick thru a dedicated outboard Comp / Gate then EQ a bit but really starting to like the result.

AFA putting down ideas. Things usually start on Guitar. Sometimes Hammond, EP or whatever. But I just use the metronome. Then typically I'll drop a Bass line in, followed by Drums. Lately though I've tended toward doing Drums first then Bass. Never messed with pre-made MIDI loops for whatever reason, just always liked doing my own thing.

[Glennbo]

Originally Posted by Softshell

That's pretty similar to my main project template except the MIDI tracks are separated. 6 MIDI 6 Audio. I've set up another template for Live Drums with 3 drum tracks, 2 OH & Kick. Hafta run the kick thru a dedicated outboard Comp / Gate then EQ a bit but really starting to like the result.

AFA putting down ideas. Things usually start on Guitar. Sometimes Hammond, EP or whatever. But I just use the metronome. Then typically I'll drop a Bass line in, followed by Drums. Lately though I've tended toward doing Drums first then Bass. Never messed with pre-made MIDI loops for whatever reason, just always liked doing my own thing.

If I were composing drum parts with keys, I would use multiple MIDI tracks too. I can play keyboard drums in one take but they are usually pretty sloppy. Playing them from V-Drums is another thing though.

[Softshell]

Originally Posted by Glennbo

If I were composing drum parts with keys, I would use multiple MIDI tracks too. I can play keyboard drums in one take but they are usually pretty sloppy. Playing them from V-Drums is another thing though.

Actually I use the mouse for input. Tried the keyboard thing as well as the drum pads on my controller a couple times. Didn't work out too well but input would be a lot faster than with the mouse. Editing OTOH...

Only reason I separate the MIDI tracks is for visual clarity. All those notes all over the place just make my eyes twirl

[Tod]

Originally Posted by Softshell

Only reason I separate the MIDI tracks is for visual clarity. All those notes all over the place just make my eyes twirl

I use two midi tracks, one for the drum parts (kick, snare, toms) and one for the cymbalse (hat, ride, crash). It makes editing the velocities much, much easier, because you have less overlapping velocities in the same position.

Aside from the notes that are played, velocities are the most important part of using midi drums.

[jazzmandan]

EZDrummer 2 and\or JamStix 3.0 (likely to upgrade to 4.0 shortly).

Thanks for asking.

[bclindner]

Nowadays when I do drums in REAPER, it's a toss-up between soundfonts, ReaDrums with samples, or Strike, but Strike (and every other VSTi AIR makes) is annoying to use because of how the MIDI routing is set up by default (every CC set, every channel bound to something or other). Generally for all of these I tend to use channel 10 and stick with General MIDI layout (because GM is easy to make drum layouts for) with 1/8 or 1/16 input quantize and then humanizing the take afterwards because I play drum pads like a child who hasn't figured out how rhythm works LMAO

[msundh]

For me as a none drummer, no good drum programmer, moving from sample player to a dedicated drum VST (AD2) made a big difference.

[Niowiad]

I use Addictive Drums 2 on a multi channel/track template and basically play the parts on a $99 MPD218 (would definitely recommend drumpads over any midi keyboard).
It took me a while to decide how to map those 16 pads in the most functional way, and followed (still doing it) drumming tutorials/courses for actual drummers, trying to replicate things on the 4x4 drumpads.

After playing the parts I then edit/improve (not too much) timing and velocity in the midi piano roll editor.
Then freeze all the tracks to WAV and process them as regular audio tracks for the mixing process.

Presets on AD2 are actually really nice but I enjoy the process of building up the sound starting from the most unprocessed sound I can get from turning off every FX in AD2.


I ended up developing my own method and 4x4 drumpads mapping. But for anyone not digging the idea of reinventing the wheel, the drumpad courses from this guy seem nicely structured (and nicely priced).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gA_NTuxhaZQ

[Stews]

I use Steven Slate Drums and I'll either play the whole beat on a Korg PadKontrol or I import a very basic midi loop with just a simple pattern then use the PadKontrol to add embellishments in to suit the song.

[Bri1]

but Strike (and every other VSTi AIR makes) is annoying to use because of how the MIDI routing is set up by default (every CC set, every channel bound to something or other).

Ey- i think strike only uses 3 channels- 1 for full,1 gm,1 has the full kits.
TBCH-i cheat a >LOT< ! lfo's are the better friends for total convenience and laziness.. dayng i'm soooo lazy sometimes.. =the results are not though.!
Now you guyz n girlz know what them square shapes are usefull for..

[Softshell]

Originally Posted by Tod

I use two midi tracks, one for the drum parts (kick, snare, toms) and one for the cymbalse (hat, ride, crash). It makes editing the velocities much, much easier, because you have less overlapping velocities in the same position.

Aside from the notes that are played, velocities are the most important part of using midi drums.

That actually makes a lot of sense. Yeah the note (sample), placement, and velocity are pretty much all there is to MIDI drums.

[Stews]

Originally Posted by Tod

I use two midi tracks, one for the drum parts (kick, snare, toms) and one for the cymbalse (hat, ride, crash). It makes editing the velocities much, much easier, because you have less overlapping velocities in the same position.

Aside from the notes that are played, velocities are the most important part of using midi drums.

Nice tip!!!

[ivansc]

Back when I did live stuff with MIDI backings I used to pan snare and cymbals hard on one side & kick & toms to the other. Put em out in a mono mix on 2 mixer inputs and you have a mini drum mixer!

[Philbo King]

Originally Posted by Hooty Toledo

I envy you, Philbo. I have to program mine in the midi editor by hand. The last one took the best part of 40 hours to make, what with being OCD about variation, nuances, and wanting to audition multiple permeations for everything I do.

My experience has been that overtweaking tends to remove the feel and soul of the performance, especially if the grid & snap is turned on. It always causes me to edit with my eyes insread of my ears.

There are just some times when the drums sound good a bit behind the beat, others when leading a bit... I suppose it depends on genre (EDM and metal seems to tolerate machine-like precision better than other sorts of music).