Multiple Recoding Sources

DaveLeeNC · 10-01-2022, 01:57 PM

Am I correct in assuming that I cannot simultaneously record 2 inputs from my 2i2 to one stereo track and record to another stereo track from a USB mic (Blue Yeti Pro if it matters). Thanks.

vitalker · 10-01-2022, 01:59 PM

Why can't you? Just choose 2i2 as input on first track and USB mic on the other. Remember to record arm those tracks.

DaveLeeNC · 10-01-2022, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vitalker

Why can't you? Just choose 2i2 as input on first track and USB mic on the other. Remember to record arm those tracks.

Thanks for the almost fast than light response. I have my Options -> Preferences set up for ASIO/Focusrite as the Recording Device. I can change it to WASAPI/USB Mic. But it is either one or the other for the recording session, from what I can tell.

BTW, I am a very light duty user here, so lack of understanding on my part is a safe assumption.

dave

vitalker · 10-01-2022, 02:12 PM

Did you try at least to record?

Isn't it possible to connect the mic to your 2i2? If not, then you are right. WASAPI is your friend then. I am not sure what you want to record with your sound card though.

DaveLeeNC · 10-01-2022, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vitalker

Did you try at least to record?

Isn't it possible to connect the mic to your 2i2? If not, then you are right. WASAPI is your friend then. I am not sure what you want to record with your sound card though.

I am trying to record a pair of sdc's through the 2i2 and simultaneously the Yeti PRO however I can. Right now that is to capture the Yeti with Audacity and export that to Reaper.

dave

vitalker · 10-01-2022, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveLeeNC

I am trying to record a pair of sdc's through the 2i2 and simultaneously the Yeti PRO however I can. Right now that is to capture the Yeti with Audacity and export that to Reaper.

dave

If you are using ASIO as audio device in Reaper, then you won't be able to record anything NOT connected to 2i2. You should use WASAPI instead. I recommend Exclusive mode, which has lower latency and has shorter chain.

DaveLeeNC · 10-01-2022, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vitalker

If you are using ASIO as audio device in Reaper, then you won't be able to record anything NOT connected to 2i2. You should use WASAPI instead. I recommend Exclusive mode, which has lower latency and has shorter chain.

I can use WASAPI and chose either the USB Mic or the 2i2 (Options -> Preferences -> AudioDevice). But from what little I know I am selecting ONE OR THE OTHER for the entire project and I cannot mix/match between tracks within a project.

Where am I confused here? Thx again.

dave

vitalker · 10-01-2022, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveLeeNC

I can use WASAPI and chose either the USB Mic or the 2i2 (Options -> Preferences -> AudioDevice). But from what little I know I am selecting ONE OR THE OTHER for the entire project and I cannot mix/match between tracks within a project.

Where am I confused here? Thx again.

dave

I'm not sure now what I've written was right, sorry. I don't have external sound card, that's why I can't check it for myself. I hope this video will be helpful: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6O5Pn_ckfnA

DaveLeeNC · 10-01-2022, 03:08 PM

Thanks - I will check that out later this evening. dave

vitalker · 10-01-2022, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveLeeNC

Thanks - I will check that out later this evening. dave

When audio device is set to ASIO, do you see in that input devices range both the mic and those sdc inputs?

domzy · 10-01-2022, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveLeeNC

Am I correct in assuming that I cannot simultaneously record 2 inputs from my 2i2 to one stereo track and record to another stereo track from a USB mic (Blue Yeti Pro if it matters). Thanks.

Almost correct.
You can potentially do it if you make an aggregate device by using ASIO4all, but it's not necessarily going to be particularly reliable.

Best practice would be to use an audio interface that can handle 3 mics (and switch the blue yeti for a non-USB mic)

vitalker · 10-01-2022, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by domzy

Best practice would be to use an audio interface that can handle 3 mics (and switch the blue yeti for a non-USB mic)

I believe there are interfaces supporting usb. Also usb-to-(mini)jack converters must exist.

domzy · 10-01-2022, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vitalker

I believe there are interfaces supporting usb. Also usb-to-(mini)jack converters must exist.

Really? Wouldn't they need to be converting digital to analogue, effectively adding an extra DAC to the chain?

Probably more hassle & expense than it's worth? (just my opinion)

vitalker · 10-01-2022, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by domzy

Really? Wouldn't they need to be converting digital to analogue, effectively adding an extra DAC to the chain?

Probably more hassle & expense than it's worth? (just my opinion)

Probably.

juan_r · 10-01-2022, 04:31 PM

You need a "composite device". ASIO drivers are normally exclusive (this or that device?). Unfortunately, they are not a thing in Windows - but they are on Macs.

I'm told Asio4All can create composite devices. You won't have the bestest response maybe, but they should be able to work together. No common clock I assume? There might a syncing problem for longer recordings, but a bit of drift can be managed... uh I'm talking out of my backside, never having actually tried.

Worth a shot IMHO anyway: Asio4All just works, usually, and if it sorta makes composite devices, I'm betting they sorta work. Let us know how it goes if you do try :-)

DaveLeeNC · 10-01-2022, 06:16 PM

I was able to set this up using ASIO4All per the previously reference Youtube video. The Yeti Pro is actually not a bad mic (it has XLR as well as USB outputs, BTW). It is no longer available as its price point is well above 'USB mics' and it never shook that 'USB label' (IMHO).

After a really quick experiment the Yeti track was a bit 'crackley'. I am not sure where that is coming from and, quite honestly, I am not sure that I care that much either. THis was kind of a whim of an experiment, cobbled together from stuff that I own in a configuration that probably answers nothing (given the cobbled together nature of all this).

Thanks for the help.

dave

b2001 · 10-01-2022, 07:21 PM

Sounds like you experienced the “not reliable” and “not the best of response” as noted above.

You might play around with your buffer setting. You might also check the dpc latency of your pc. Maybe its possible you can improve your performance enough to eliminate the crackles. Its worth a shot.

serr · 10-01-2022, 07:29 PM

2 steps to aggregate device use
1. Creating the device with the OS audio utility
2. Sync'ing both interfaces to a single sample rate clock (ie picking one as master)

That combo USB interface + mic will not have a digital input. That means the only choice for sync is over the USB connection. So it's always going to be error prone. (Pro stuff has word clock I/O or at least digital connections for clock.)

Try making the USB mic the master and have the Focusrite chase it.

The USB mic might also only have 1 or 2 sample rate choices. That kind of forces that issue.

"Bully" the system a little. Select the aggregate device again in preferences/audio/device and click apply right before going to record. That sends a new request to the audio system for a kind of reset.

mschnell · 10-01-2022, 10:55 PM

As two hardware interfaces with a dedicated driver each provide two slightly different sample rates to the computer, using both of therm in a DAW needs re-sampling them to a common sample rate, potentially creating unwanted some side-effects. ASIO does not provide this out if the box, WASAPI and Mac do provide this.

-Michael

vitalker · 10-02-2022, 01:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveLeeNC

After a really quick experiment the Yeti track was a bit 'crackley'.

Maybe try to increase Block size, for example make it twice bigger. Like if you have 512 samples, make it 1024. Remember to use degrees of 2, not anything else.

King Stupid · 10-02-2022, 04:44 AM

If you are using the proper focusrite ASIO drivers, no, not really. Your USB mic is it's own audio interface.
You could try to make an aggregate audio interface setup. Easier on mac than windows, from what I gather.
Anyway, no, not easily, and with less than ideal results. The point of your focusrite is to be your audio interface. Which means a mic is plugged into it.
Which you cannot do with a usb mic.

mschnell · 10-02-2022, 04:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by serr

2 steps to aggregate device use
1. Creating the device with the OS audio utility
2. Sync'ing both interfaces to a single sample rate clock (ie picking one as master)

Which "audio utility" in which OS (other than mac) supports this ?

-Michael

serr · 10-02-2022, 06:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mschnell

As two hardware interfaces with a dedicated driver each provide two slightly different sample rates to the computer, using both of therm in a DAW needs re-sampling...

That might work in a pinch for monitoring something but never in a recording situation. Both devices need to be set to the same sample rate. Further, one needs to slave to the other.

Since the aggregate configuration might be considered complex to begin with... Keep things simple when possible. Don't try to run multiple devices at different sample rates. This isn't similar to converting already recorded audio on the fly in Reaper. It would create a genuinely impossible situation for the devices and software to deal with.

SonicAxiom · 10-02-2022, 10:00 AM

You can aggregate up to 48 channels of audio in a single computer originating from hardware audio devices connected to that computer via USB or Firewire and audio applications using Audinate's Dante Via (https://www.audinate.com/products/software/dante-via). Dante Via aggregates and syncs all those devices and software sources and allows you to route them arbitrarily between all of them. Latency might be an issue, though, depending on the power/specs of your computer and the respective audio devices.

.

mschnell · 10-02-2022, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by serr

Both devices need to be set to the same sample rate. Further, one needs to slave to the other.

Exactly.

And the "master/slave" (i.e. clock sync) feature needs them to feature a kind of "word clock" input/output, which USB microphone never, and the usual semi-pro interfaces only rarely feature.

Moreover with ASIO they need a common driver, which supposedly only is possible if they are the same brand.

-Michael

DaveLeeNC · 10-03-2022, 07:01 AM

Thanks to all for the very useful input. The aim here is simply to try some MidSide recording experiments. My Yeti Pro mic (truly not a bad mic) has Figure 8 capability but it puts that out on a stereo track (either USB or 5 pin XLR outputs). So at least for experimental purposes, clearly the most expedient option here is to just record on mic through Audacity and the other through Reaper. Then go from there.

Or, since it appears that this mic in fig. 8 mode just puts the same signal on both channels on the stereo track, I can use a 5->3 splitter and run things off my 2i2 using only one side of the splitter output. However I was really curious about messing around with MidSide stuff based on 3 signals (Left Side, Right Side, and Mid or maybe even stereo Mid), so two DAW's is the fastest cheapest path here.

juan_r · 10-03-2022, 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveLeeNC

Or, since it appears that this mic in fig. 8 mode just puts the same signal on both channels on the stereo track,

First, make sure it really is the same signal: do they null, even if you talk only to one face of the mic, then to the other? The differences might be slight in your setting. I suggest an experiment: try whispering very close to the mic - or scrapping delicately the mic mesh with a finger - on one side, then the other. Then try nulling the L and R signals.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveLeeNC

I can use a 5->3 splitter and run things off my 2i2 using only one side of the splitter output. However I was really curious about messing around with MidSide stuff based on 3 signals (Left Side, Right Side, and Mid or maybe even stereo Mid)

As you probably know well, mid-side only needs 2 signals: the center (usually cardioid) and the side (necessarily figure 8). The "third" signal is actually just the side with the polarity flipped.

So if your USB mic has the same signal on L and R, you can experiment with Mid-side by using only one of them - L or R: plug the Yeti into the soundcard using the XLR (not sure if a 3-pin XLR connection will bring L or R into the soundcard). One of the SDCs could be the mid channel, the single-channeled Yeti will be the side.

If you want to experiment with both mid-side and a coincident or A-B pair at the same time, you actually need 4 inputs, while as it is you can have at most 3, or maybe even only 2 depending on composite devices/drivers etc.

DaveLeeNC · 10-03-2022, 07:33 AM

I walked around the mic talking and (to my ear) the NULL was perfect. Just for grins.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/mvxbb2w7xp...0Null.jpg?dl=0

dave

serr · 10-03-2022, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mschnell

Exactly.

And the "master/slave" (i.e. clock sync) feature needs them to feature a kind of "word clock" input/output, which USB microphone never, and the usual semi-pro interfaces only rarely feature.

Moreover with ASIO they need a common driver, which supposedly only is possible if they are the same brand.

-Michael

Yep, sync over a data connection like USB is not reliable. There WILL be an error. I've found that if you restart the system as I described above before a recording you can get away with a little more than expected.

I'm not surprised to see cheapo combo products like the infamous USB mic. Talk about jumping off the deep end though for anyone who just wants to make a podcast! It's literally the most complex and unstable system with multiple units. Requiring aggregate device config and sync over USB. Add Windows being difficult with audio in the first place and...

The ones that surprise me are all the Roland keyboards and drum machine modules. One the one hand they're all super slick. Usually 32 channels of audio as an audio interface. Also a MIDI interface. They even pass 32 bit floating point digital so you can be fast and loose with digital levels and never clip or lose resolution. But then no word clock or digital input to clock from! This faux pas really makes these products stumble. My advice above about "bullying the system" comes directly from working with these devices in various aggregate combinations.

Maybe it's expected to turn to the Dante network solutions nowadays? Been meaning to play with all that but haven't yet.

mschnell · 08-18-2023, 02:18 PM

In fact, my Native Instruments "Audio 6" usb deviuce features SPDIF in and out, and can be configured to use the SPDIF clock.

Hence it should be possible to sync multiple of those. But there would need to be a driver that allows for seeing multiple such devices in a combined ASIO stream (each would feature six input and six output channels).