ability to split freezed material without loosing freezed state and offset/length

deeb · 03-07-2018, 06:23 PM

Would be wonderful (i'd say perfect) if freezed content could be splited and while freezed added item fxs could be "derived" when unfreezed.

with a few gotchas which user might be aware, would be a more powerful freezing without actually need to render / unfreeze material constantly (imagine this with ARA and many other heavy processing plugs).

otherwize ... please make copying the locked freezed keep the lock so that we don't split unintentionally and so loose the editing feature intact.

foxAsteria · 03-07-2018, 07:05 PM

You can edit, just unlock the item. You may however lose the edits if you unfreeze.

deeb · 03-07-2018, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foxAsteria

You may however lose the edits if you unfreeze.

Yes thank you, but that is the reason of request.
I'll edit op To be more explicit.thnks

juliansader · 03-08-2018, 08:49 AM

I have also requested something similar: "Render INTO next take": Re-render item without losing audio edits (with demo script). This is the item-level version of editing freezed content without losing subsequent edits.

Since submitting that FR, I have surprised even myself with how useful this feature is, and how often I am now using it.

deeb · 03-08-2018, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by juliansader

I have also requested something similar: "Render INTO next take": Re-render item without losing audio edits (with demo script). This is the item-level version of editing freezed content without losing subsequent edits.

Since submitting that FR, I have surprised even myself with how useful this feature is, and how often I am now using it.

thank you! ofcourse i totally agree. It's a no brainer! being able to maintain the original foundations intact without commiting a final rendering, and so not able to go back, or a pain in the ass of unfreezing and freezing. 95% of the times i would simply want to move, copy , item start or item length.

So Operations: item lenght, item start, copy , move, and loop/repeat/pool/ duplicate should be possible? any more possible?

offtopic: I am sure you and others could do this kind of functionality and that is way i am pissing about this feature: https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=196600
since i think it would easy a lot the kind of scripting you showed in your FR.
Aux data would per example be useful to keep track id of the rendered related rendered track or in the rendered track which track is the "freezed". And if that track is deleted , the AuxData aka "track database" would go with her...

deeb · 03-13-2018, 08:05 AM

Sincerely I don't understand how this is not supported by forum users.
Sincerely either, i feel features requests is full of mud and it's difficult to see something shine.

I can only justify this with:
This feature request is not clear or people don't get what is exposed
or people have super super super computers
or people don't produce with heavy processing

what is your case?

foxAsteria · 03-13-2018, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deeb

what is your case?

I just don't need freeze very often. When I do, I pick a track I'm unlikely to need unfrozen again, so I do all the editing I want. If freezing/unfreezing become a large part of your workflow, you either need to rethink the way you use your computer's resources, save up for a more capable system, or deal with the inconvenience. If we get this feature at all, it might not be anytime soon. My computer's about 5 years old, so nothing special.

Also, if you find yourself needing to unfreeze edited tracks, simply duplicate the track before unfreezing, to preserve any edits. Then you'll only need to compare the two to get it back to a working state.

juliansader · 03-13-2018, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foxAsteria

If we get this feature at all, it might not be anytime soon.

My own suggestion (in the other thread) was that this feature can easily be incorporated into REAPER's existing multi-take system:

Quote:

Originally Posted by juliansader

I'm not sure if this can really be done with frozen *tracks*, but it should be straightforward to add this capability to REAPER's current multi-*take* features. A new "Render INTO next take" action that does the following:
* After rendering ("Apply take/track FX"), take FX should automatically be set offline. This would save memory similar to freezing.
* Instead of creating a new take, simply replace the media source of the next take, thereby keeping all FX, stretch markers and envelopes of the next take intact.

Multiple takes are equivalent to a freeze history, but also allow easy access, re-editing and re-rendering.

deeb · 03-13-2018, 04:41 PM

Thank you FoxAsteria for taking your time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by foxAsteria

Then you'll only need to compare the two to get it back to a working state.

Yes, but imagine i have 8 bar of freezed material. And want to use this pretty much in all music.
I never know how long that bar will repeat, 25 times maybe, but then there are slightly changes there and there (breaks, new section, whatever).

1 ) While you are doing the song imagine how many times i have to unfreeze, duplicate and freeze again, to simply duplicate this 8 bar.

2) or if duplicate the track as you suggested, imagine the tedious task of comparing each track in the middle of the song. (this is what i do if really need to maintain the freezed state)

So I tend to use freeze not very often : (

That is why my suggestion: So that While locked , reaper has all the information necessary to let me copy, duplicate , .. ) while keeps freezed state intact.

It's very clean and i'd say obvious (but never seen this in any DAW) - Wonder why! : / maybe there's something i am not seeing well and impossible to be done.

Anyway! i hope this is my last feature request! i want to start a new phase.

deeb · 03-13-2018, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by juliansader

My own suggestion (in the other thread) was that this feature can easily be incorporated into REAPER's existing multi-take system:

Multiple takes are equivalent to a freeze history, but also allow easy access, re-editing and re-rendering.

Your idea is nice ! but i think this one is more natural! don't you think?

"locked freezed items simply can move , copied and duplicate (reaper makes the rest)" feeels very natural

or would they are complementary and for different tasks?

foxAsteria · 03-13-2018, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deeb

1 ) While you are doing the song imagine how many times i have to unfreeze, duplicate and freeze again, to simply duplicate this 8 bar.

2) or if duplicate the track as you suggested, imagine the tedious task of comparing each track in the middle of the song. (this is what i do if really need to maintain the freezed state)

1) Initially I suggested you just unlock the item and do your edits, which is what I assumed you were doing, based on your reply. So why do you suggest that you need to unfreeze and refreeze in order to duplicate? You don't.

2) Reaper says that it will discard edits when you unfreeze, but if you try this comparison, you will see it hasn't changed much, if anything. Say you had 4 bars of MIDI and needed to freeze the track. Now you unlock the item (keeping the track frozen) and duplicate the audio. If you unfreeze, you will have 8 bars of MIDI, just as if you'd edited it before freezing.

I don't know exactly how much or what kinds of editing needs to be done after freezing in order to lose some after unfreezing, but for my purposes, the only inconvenience I encounter when freezing is not being able to tweak the plugins. I simply unlock the items if I want to edit them.

deeb · 03-13-2018, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foxAsteria

1) Initially I suggested you just unlock the item and do your edits, which is what I assumed you were doing, based on your reply. So why do you suggest that you need to unfreeze and refreeze in order to duplicate? You don't.

Wow thank you for feedback. You are right And i was wrong. I assumed edits got Lost. (And for some reason they do, but must be for some other reason which i'll find tommorow). I just tested And my feature request already implemented. Lol. Thank you for the care and sorry my ignorance.

foxAsteria · 03-13-2018, 08:51 PM

No problem. Be sure to post your findings. I think we could all benefit from knowing better how the freezing system actually works.

deeb · 03-26-2018, 11:01 AM

i found that reaper just needs to take care of: derived offset and while freezed added item fxs could be "derived" when unfreezed. IMO a great freezing feature can shine even more.

meanwhile edited OP for clarity.

foxAsteria · 03-26-2018, 02:37 PM

hey, if you're using a lot of item fx, that could be why you need to freeze so often. There is an option in preference>media to duplicate item fx when items are split, which will ramp up your cpu quick if you do a lot of editing. you might be better off using an sws action to apply take fx, or even just glue the items and move forward. especially if you find yourself putting more item fx on frozen tracks.

in digital recording, we always have the ability to go back and often that's just a waste of time. we have to find a balance where we can make decisions during our workflow and just trust those decisions. tape forced you do do this, but now it's very easy to get caught up in endlessly undoing our work and obsessing over minutiae. just a thought...

deeb · 03-26-2018, 03:32 PM

thank man! I completly agree with about the commitments, but if technology allows the commitment shouldn't exist.

i am just trying to push things forward in the freezing department.

I am imagining freezed midi or audio loops (whatever it's content might be ... drums, pads, synths, blab alba) melodically altered or corrected by melodyne or extremly processed and treat them as regular wav files. (so split, offset possible). Which would allow us to abuse while being very "natural" and simple .. i think : ) i love to mashup audio and find my things.

deeb · 03-26-2018, 03:53 PM

Otherwise, in order to avoid as much as possible loosing freezed edits (duplications only at this moment) , i'd like to ask devs to:
1) keep the lock when copying freezed material so that it protects against unintentionally splits and so loose freezed edits (duplications).

2) show a sign in TCP or in freezed item so we quickly know that we are handling with freezed material.