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03-10-2021, 08:16 AM
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#41
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Administrator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 15,750
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The colors are visible at the supercollapsed height with the default theme. What does your theme set for the first tcp_height value? (it's 4 in the default theme)
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03-10-2021, 08:17 AM
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#42
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 13,333
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovnis
When items are tiny, is it possible to respect the color of items, please?
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Fine here with the default theme.
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03-10-2021, 08:20 AM
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#43
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 13,333
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It would be also nice to paste items to specific lanes and indicate that on edit cursor.
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03-10-2021, 08:31 AM
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#44
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: home is where the heart is
Posts: 12,096
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa
Yes, that is the intention. The "splits items and creates new takes" preference is overridden for tracks that are set to a fixed number of lanes. That matches the existing behavior for FIPM tracks -- the "splits items..." preference is overridden for them too.
But tracks that are not set to FIPM or a fixed number of item lanes will still obey the "splits items..." preference.
Our expectation is that anyone using item lanes will likely be using the "new recording that overlaps existing media items > creates new media items in separate lanes" preference, but it's not required.
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Ok, I can follow, thanks.
Though I noticed when combining this with 'Record mode: auto-punch selected items' and recording 'over' selected items it still creates takes currently (and not seperate items).
But again, not sure how it's intended to be handled in this case (and it's not new behaviour).
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03-10-2021, 08:33 AM
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#45
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 4,812
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i don't know what's going on! but wouldn't it be nice that even if number of lanes is q big number, if the lanes are not used , .. all the track height space should be used to the lanes that are actually being used and one empty for something that might be dragged later?
so if lanes used: 3
number of lanes: 10
would show 4 lanes .. 3 for those which are being used and 1 has a holder for new ones.
between: i can't see the Auto in my menu
edit1: i just noticed other DAW uses this approach will post it in a minute.
edit2: here it is. It's even better since it deals with some details more:
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Last edited by deeb; 03-10-2021 at 08:45 AM.
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03-10-2021, 08:48 AM
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#46
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: home is where the heart is
Posts: 12,096
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deeb
between: i can't see the Auto in my menu
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I think you only see 'Auto' if 'Options > Show overlapping media items in lanes' enabled (I was confused by this too at first but actually I think it makes sense.)
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03-10-2021, 08:48 AM
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#47
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,924
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa
The colors are visible at the supercollapsed height with the default theme. What does your theme set for the first tcp_height value? (it's 4 in the default theme)
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It's 4. The issue happens with 5, too.
tcp_heights 4 26 71 207 ; supercollapsed, collapsed, small(norecarm), recarm size
Last edited by ovnis; 03-10-2021 at 10:08 AM.
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03-10-2021, 08:53 AM
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#48
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 4,812
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nofish
I think you only see 'Auto' if 'Options > Show overlapping media items in lanes' enabled (I was confused by this too at first but actually I think it makes sense.)
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Thanks !i am still very confused with this options and things will need to digest! Hopefully it will be simple in the end !
edit: i thought we were dealing with a per track setting and not per project setting, .. but as i said i still have to digest . Thank you!
Also "take lane" term is too specific or confusing as we have media takes .. why not wider like just "track lane"? i will get used tho but first impression is a little disturbance
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Last edited by deeb; 03-10-2021 at 09:02 AM.
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03-10-2021, 09:09 AM
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#49
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: home is where the heart is
Posts: 12,096
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deeb
Also "take lane" term is too specific or confusing as we have media takes ..
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Which menu item are you referring to?
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03-10-2021, 09:27 AM
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#50
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 4,812
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in options:
"Also "take lane" term is too specific or confusing as we have media takes .."
i just refer about the name of the feature, is a bit confusing.
when we refer to MediaItem Takes we refer as takes. Now "take lane" .. i just want to call it "lane" or "track lane". I am being picky maybe. It's probably just me.
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03-10-2021, 09:36 AM
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#51
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Administrator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 15,750
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REAPER has take lanes (individual takes within a media item) and item lanes (separate media items displayed in lanes). The recent development is focusing on item lanes. The options in your screenshot affect take lanes, which have not changed in a while.
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03-10-2021, 09:37 AM
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#52
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Black Forest
Posts: 5,054
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Yeah I guess it's very important to have a clear distinction for the user:
Take Lanes and Item Lanes.
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03-10-2021, 09:41 AM
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#53
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: home is where the heart is
Posts: 12,096
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@deeb
But that options menu was already there before the introduction of the new media item lanes features and is unrelated to it as far as I understand.
Calling 'media item lanes' just 'lanes' would be confusing with 'take lanes' I think but calling them 'track lanes' instead would be fine imo (doesn't matter to me though.)
edit:
crosspost with schwa and Stevie
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03-10-2021, 09:44 AM
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#54
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Administrator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 15,750
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It's a fair point that referring to "take lanes" doesn't add any information over referring to "takes", so the existing actions and menu items that refer to take lanes could be cleaned up.
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03-10-2021, 09:59 AM
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#55
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Larisa, Greece
Posts: 3,797
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Track lanes sounds also right, since they affect the whole track.
Btw, i'm dropping this here as an example to change and see the number of lanes from the TCP in case you 've missed from the previous page.
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03-10-2021, 10:02 AM
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#56
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 2,872
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I agree that it should be track lanes and not item lanes. Because it is the whole track that gets a new lane that can be used by several unrelated items for various purposes. It seems to be just a track in a track.. subtrack might also fit? But better track lane. Item lanes sound as if they are bound in some way to one or more specific items and IMO are easier to confuse with Take lanes (one could think the item gets a new lane for an extra take = what we call take lane).
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03-10-2021, 10:13 AM
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#57
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Larisa, Greece
Posts: 3,797
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazma
I agree that it should be track lanes and not item lanes. Because it is the whole track that gets a new lane that can be used by several unrelated items for various purposes. It seems to be just a track in a track.. subtrack might also fit? But better track lane. Item lanes sound as if they are bound in some way to one or more specific items and IMO are easier to confuse with Take lanes (one could think the item gets a new lane for an extra take = what we call take lane).
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Yeap, in my mind i have them as track lanes since affect the whole track, take lanes those for comping, and item lanes the ones been created when overlapping items is on, because they exist only for overlapping items and not the whole track.
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03-10-2021, 10:55 AM
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#58
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,924
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Inside tracks very tiny (and other tracks, too), is it possible to display the smallest items and if there is no enough space to display them, instead, display an item with "Media lanes : xx" ?
Actually, when items are collapsed we can't know it when the track is tiny.
Last edited by ovnis; 03-10-2021 at 11:02 AM.
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03-10-2021, 11:05 AM
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#59
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 4,812
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thank you all for clarifying.
It might be work having an eye in "rendered/freezed track versions" concept ..
might be ridiculous , might be not!
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03-10-2021, 11:09 AM
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#60
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 2,872
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovnis
Inside tracks very tiny (and other tracks, too), is it possible to display the smallest items and if there is no enough space to display them, instead, display an item with "Media lanes : xx" ?
Actually, when items are collapsed we can't know it when the track is tiny.
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Looks like a good idea.
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03-10-2021, 11:14 AM
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#61
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 4,812
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is it so important to see number of lanes?
@ovni: selecting manny "track lane groups" would be a bit overhelming with the complexity of adjacent items and how far in the time line last item is. no?
I would prefer to optionally display number of lanes (if only one track selected) in transport panel per example.
even TCP context menu :
display 1 lanes,
display 1 lanes,
display 10 lanes.
etc
Is a bit strange. Is there a reason to define it before hand?
it probably should increase and decrease like i showed in a previous gif.
Just saying ..! i dont know !
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Last edited by deeb; 03-10-2021 at 11:23 AM.
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03-10-2021, 11:22 AM
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#62
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,924
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Quote:
is it so important to see number of lanes?
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No. But it's not worst.
Quote:
@ovni: selecting manny "track lane groups" would be a bit overhemilng with the complexity of adjacent items. no?
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It's only visual, here. If you want to chose items, you have to increase the track height.
Quote:
I would prefer to optionally display it in transport panel per example.
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Not me because, the number of media lanes can change with the auto media lanes. We have to see exactly where are the items overlapped (number of items overlapped = media lanes in auto mode).
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03-10-2021, 11:27 AM
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#63
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 4,812
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Thank you ovni,
meanwhile i edited previous post. Might be something extra. if not ignore.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ovnis
Not me because, the number of media lanes can change with the auto media lanes. We have to see exactly where are the items overlapped (number of items overlapped = media lanes in auto mode).
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the media lanes number or auto is per track , no?
if so , if we select a track and if the number of lanes is displayed somewhere like in transport bar then the info is always present.
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03-10-2021, 11:31 AM
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#64
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,924
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OK, I think that version is far better/logical:
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03-10-2021, 11:35 AM
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#65
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,924
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Quote:
the media lanes number or auto is per track , no?
if so , if we select a track and if the number of lanes is displayed somewhere like in transport bar then the info is always present.
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Yes. But when we are in auto track lanes, inside the track we can have 1 lane in one place and 5 lanes in an another place, for example.
My proposal is made to let people know when items (and how much) are overlapped. Actually when the track is tiny we can't know that.
Last edited by ovnis; 03-10-2021 at 11:47 AM.
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03-10-2021, 11:36 AM
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#66
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 4,812
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but in the end, is it the intension to have the lanes play simultaneously ?
@schwa?
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03-10-2021, 11:39 AM
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#67
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Administrator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 15,750
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deeb
but in the end, is it the intension to have the lanes play simultaneously ?
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We shall see...
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03-10-2021, 11:41 AM
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#68
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,924
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Quote:
but in the end, is it the intension to have the lanes play simultaneously ?
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It can. I use it like that lots of time.
For example, 5 items which are played at the same time on the same track.
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03-10-2021, 11:41 AM
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#69
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa
We shall see...
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Is that a tease ?
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03-10-2021, 11:58 AM
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#70
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Larisa, Greece
Posts: 3,797
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deeb
is it so important to see number of lanes?
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Yes it's a lot, because when you're working on a track with lanes and you want to copy or move the items to another track, how would you know if the other track has track lanes and how many of them?
This could lead to a small mess with items
Quote:
Originally Posted by ovnis
OK, I think that version is far better/logical:
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That's why it is better to be shown on TCP and not on the items, because if the track you want to move the items has an empty space without items, how would you still know the number of lanes if there are any??
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03-10-2021, 12:00 PM
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#71
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Ukraine, Kyiv
Posts: 546
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovnis
OK, I think that version is far better/logical:
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I support this!
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03-10-2021, 12:01 PM
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#72
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Larisa, Greece
Posts: 3,797
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skorobagatko
I support this!
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I think it is better to be shown on TCP and not on the items, because if the track you want to move the items has an empty space without items, how would you still know the number of lanes if there are any??
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03-10-2021, 12:02 PM
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#73
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 4,812
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa
We shall see...
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if per track we can define:
- play track lanes simultaniously
- play track lanes solely
we can have both!
Going further in the thought, if we have - Solo, mute or just 1 "mute button" per lane or just "audioble" button per lane we can have both too, without defining it in TCP context menu.
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Last edited by deeb; 03-10-2021 at 12:27 PM.
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03-10-2021, 12:04 PM
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#74
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,924
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagelis
I think it is better to be shown on TCP and not on the items, because if the track you want to move the items has an empty space without items, how would you still know the number of lanes if there are any??
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You haven't understand the purpose, here. It indicates the number of overlapped medias. Not the number of lane tracks.
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03-10-2021, 12:06 PM
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#75
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Larisa, Greece
Posts: 3,797
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovnis
You haven't understand the purpose, here. It indicates the number of overlapped medias. Not the number of lane tracks.
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Ah ok my bad, this sounds right then.
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03-10-2021, 12:06 PM
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#76
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 4,812
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagelis
Yes it's a lot, because when you're working on a track with lanes and you want to copy or move the items to another track, how would you know if the other track has track lanes and how many of them?
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ok! but maybe it allows dropping in a track if track supports it , like RE does , and everywhere else. If is allowed drop it if not ignore.
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03-10-2021, 12:07 PM
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#77
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 2,872
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagelis
Yes it's a lot, because when you're working on a track with lanes and you want to copy or move the items to another track, how would you know if the other track has track lanes and how many of them?
This could lead to a small mess with items
That's why it is better to be shown on TCP and not on the items, because if the track you want to move the items has an empty space without items, how would you still know the number of lanes if there are any??
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I support both. We could have a track with 16 lanes and have for example 10 overlapping items in one part of the track and 14 overlapping items in another part of the track.
Then we would see in the TCP the number 16 and (when collapsed) one block with the number 10 and one block with the number 14.
And as said, I would also advocate, if we get such “blocks” that they extend from the start of the first overlapped item to the end of the last. And by moving (or editing) the block it does not move (or edit) single items (because editing single items when collapsed makes no sense) but all the overlapping items.
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03-10-2021, 12:08 PM
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#78
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 4,812
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagelis
Ah ok my bad, this sounds right then.
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yep yep ! i missed it too! but it's too fancy on reaper ! we are not used to this kind of stuff ! i think we all agree! would be good tho. It's similar to RE allow/not allow while dragging around need.
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03-10-2021, 12:09 PM
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#79
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,924
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The number of overlapped medias can change depending on the location. With 8 lanes inside a track, you can have 2 overlapped medias or 8... That can change.
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03-10-2021, 12:18 PM
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#80
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Larisa, Greece
Posts: 3,797
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deeb
ok! but maybe it allows dropping in a track if track supports it , like RE does , and everywhere else. If is allowed drop it if not ignore.
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Do you mean to match the number of lanes between tracks?
Like source track=3 lanes, destination track=3 lanes, you can move the items.
And when the source track has more lanes than destination don't allow to move?
But that depends on the number of items you have selected to move as well and not specifically on lanes, because if a track has 8 lanes doesn't mean you will always want to move or copy all the items to other lanes.
So match the number of items with lanes and allow or not, hmmm, but having an indication on TCP could avoid all these conditions and see from before what's happening, Also it's UX friendly
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