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06-17-2012, 01:11 PM
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#1
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: croydon UK
Posts: 253
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can automation lane send midi cc ?
Here's my problem, I have a patch in ACE that I want to change the stack values for in real time. Sadly they do not produce automation data but they are midi learn able (which is odd if you ask me but that's another issue).
So I have tried assigning the the stack values to my midi controller and then went on to edit the data to produce the tunings I want, thing is that midi lane data doesn't have the resolution to get the tunings close enough, so I was wondering if there was any way I could use the automation lane to send the values more accurately ?
Sorry if this is a dumb question, it's a bit out of my usual comfort zone so I am getting a bit lost.
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06-17-2012, 01:47 PM
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#2
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Kalispell
Posts: 14,759
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bilsner
thing is that midi lane data doesn't have the resolution to get the tunings close enough, so I was wondering if there was any way I could use the automation lane to send the values more accurately ?
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Are you talking about the density of the events (how close they are to each other, consequently their values are also separated quite a bit)?
If so, go to Preferences>Editing Behavior>MIDI Editor and set the "Events per quarter note when drawing in CC lanes:" and set it to a much higher value. You can experiment until you get the density you want.
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06-17-2012, 03:32 PM
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#3
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: croydon UK
Posts: 253
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod
Are you talking about the density of the events (how close they are to each other, consequently their values are also separated quite a bit)?
If so, go to Preferences>Editing Behavior>MIDI Editor and set the "Events per quarter note when drawing in CC lanes:" and set it to a much higher value. You can experiment until you get the density you want.
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Not the frequency of the events, but their values
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06-17-2012, 04:02 PM
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#4
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Kalispell
Posts: 14,759
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bilsner
thing is that midi lane data doesn't have the resolution to get the tunings close enough, so I was wondering if there was any way I could use the automation lane to send the values more accurately ?
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Quote:
Not the frequency of the events, but their values
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Humm, maybe I don't understand what your trying to do. If you do what I mentioned above, the values will also be closer together because there will be a lot more events.
Did you try it?
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06-17-2012, 04:45 PM
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#5
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: croydon UK
Posts: 253
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod
Humm, maybe I don't understand what your trying to do. If you do what I mentioned above, the values will also be closer together because there will be a lot more events.
Did you try it?
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I mean the values of each event are not fine enough resolution not the frequency of events per quarter notes. The bars go up and down in notches that are too coarse to set the values I need.
I think you are misunderstanding the phrase "close enough" as close together when I mean "close enough" to "tuned" values to be useable ie. changing my stack tuning from 0 3 7 and 10 to 0 5 8 and 10 ...
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06-17-2012, 05:16 PM
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#6
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Dayton, Ohio USA
Posts: 1,714
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bilsner
I mean the values of each event are not fine enough resolution not the frequency of events per quarter notes. The bars go up and down in notches that are too coarse to set the values I need.
I think you are misunderstanding the phrase "close enough" as close together when I mean "close enough" to "tuned" values to be useable ie. changing my stack tuning from 0 3 7 and 10 to 0 5 8 and 10 ...
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The problem is that midi CC resolution is only 7 byte, which means 128 steps (0-127).
Some midi messages are 14 byte, such as pitchwheel or modwheel, in which case you can get 16384 steps of resolution. Is there any way you can assign the parameter to the modwheel of your controller?
As far as automating cc messages using the main track automation, yes it's possible. Put "Reacontrolmidi" as an fx on your track, and you can assign whatever cc value you want, then select it as an automatable parameter. But you're still stuck with the same resolution as the underlying cc message.
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06-17-2012, 05:20 PM
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#7
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Kalispell
Posts: 14,759
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bilsner
I mean the values of each event are not fine enough resolution not the frequency of events per quarter notes. The bars go up and down in notches that are too coarse to set the values I need.
I think you are misunderstanding the phrase "close enough" as close together when I mean "close enough" to "tuned" values to be useable ie. changing my stack tuning from 0 3 7 and 10 to 0 5 8 and 10 ...
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Heh heh, I guess I don't understand, sorry about that. I was just trying to say that when the events are drawn closer together then they have a much finer value resolution. Like instead of going from 64 to 70 to 76 etc., they will go from 64, 65, 66, 67 etc..
I don't know what ACE is so I'm probably all wet. Sorry bilsner.
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06-17-2012, 05:37 PM
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#8
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: croydon UK
Posts: 253
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thx guys, I guess the answer is no. I can use mod wheel but I only have one and would need 3 or 4 haha.
nevermind
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06-18-2012, 12:35 AM
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#9
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-blänk-
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 11,359
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Kevin had the answer and it's not no:
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinW
...
As far as automating cc messages using the main track automation, yes it's possible. Put "Reacontrolmidi" as an fx on your track, and you can assign whatever cc value you want, then select it as an automatable parameter. But you're still stuck with the same resolution as the underlying cc message.
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That said, I don't know the plugin we are talking about, but if you get a fine enough resolution using your hardware modwheel then the 128 steps of a simple CC seem to be good enough. Are you saying that you fail creating certain values in a CC lane? The only thing I can think of that can cause this is the lane height being too small. Drag it a bit bigger.
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06-18-2012, 03:50 AM
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#10
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Dayton, Ohio USA
Posts: 1,714
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gofer
Kevin had the answer and it's not no:
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Gofer, are you saying that creating a track envelope with Reacontrolmidi will somehow interpolate the cc values? I don't think so, and I believe that is what the OP's problem is. e.g., if 'pitch' only had a resolution of 128 steps, it would be easy to hear the jumps between each step, so the midi gods gave us 16,384 divisions for that. I think the OP wants 16,384 divisions for other cc's, which I believe is not possible. But I am certainly wanting to learn how to do it, if it actually is possible!
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06-18-2012, 06:29 AM
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#11
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Surrey, UK
Posts: 19,681
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You mean u-he's ACE modular synth, I think. Looking at the user guide and threads on KvR it looks like the Stack Tuning for each voice is not automatable (as the controls are not exposed a VSTi parameters) but they can be "MIDI learned " within ACE itself (that is, the knobs will respond to MIDI CC messages.
Each stack knob has a range of +/ 24 semitones and changes 0.2 semitones on each increment . Shift + knob twiddle is for fine tuning - 100 cents per semitone. So there are 4800 possible values.
I cannot think of an easy (or sensible) way to map CC values (0...127 or 0...16,383) onto that range.
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What happens if one of the Stack knobs is mapped to a CC# and CC messages with values of of 0 ... 127 are sent to ACE. How much does the Stack knob change be each time?
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Relevant threads on KvR:
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=347082 (for a Stack Tuning FR0
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=326698 (for the VSTi parameters)
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=315754 (for non-automation of Stack Voices)
__________________
DarkStar ... interesting, if true. . . . Inspired by ...
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06-18-2012, 09:49 AM
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#12
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-blänk-
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 11,359
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinW
Gofer, are you saying that creating a track envelope with Reacontrolmidi will somehow interpolate the cc values?
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No, I was just replying to "thx guys, I guess the answer is no". The question was "can automation lane send midi cc ?" and the answer to that question is yes .
As said, I have no idea about that plug. I read bilsner's post and (mis?)understood that he was already sucessfully controling the parameter with his hardware modwheel, which has most likely the same (128step) resolution that is accessible in a CC lane as well. If he needs 16383 steps he could learn the parameter to pitch and either use a pitch lane or control pitch messages with ReaControlMIDI and automate that.
But DarkStar shines a bit more light on that plugin. If his math is right, it seems an utterly dumb decision by the plugin's devs to rely on MIDI to control that parameter.
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