Old 06-17-2012, 01:47 PM   #1
finzic
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Default MIDI drum recording and quantizing

Hi all, I'm new to MIDI drum recording in REAPER;
I need to record drum tracks for my band with a midi-enable drumkit, and then I need to quantize them with respect to some BPM reference.

In particular, I would like to be able to find a 'correct' 4-beat (or even 5-beat...) measure and use it as a BPM reference, then quantizing all other measures in a section with respect to that BPM reference just found.

I have found a tutorial on Tempo-Mapping, but I'm afraid I am looking for just about the opposite thing: with Tempo-Mapping I am superimposing a measure structure upon what I had actually played, whereas I need to just edit (in some automated way) my MIDI drum notes to get back a little bit in sync, perhaps with some sort of 'humanization' added.

Could you please point me to some solution to that?
Any help will be really appreciated
Thanks
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Old 06-17-2012, 01:52 PM   #2
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MIDI always sync to the project tempo

so, find the bar that you want, use the tempo calculate tool (create measure from time selection)

now you can quantize your drums normally, The midi grid will follow this tempo
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Old 06-17-2012, 01:56 PM   #3
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Right click the "record arm/disarm" button on the track you wish to quantize. At the bottom of the drop-down menu (From right-clicking) there should be "Track recording settings." Click that.

You'll an auto quantize function for the entire track, with various features to play with.
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Old 06-17-2012, 11:57 PM   #4
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Default Thanks you guys

Thanks you guys,
I will try these 2 tips as soon as possible and get back here with my findings.
As a further details, our songs have quite a lot of tempo changes, so I think that I'd need to perform multiple 'recordings' each one with at least a rough tempo estimation in order to get the job done ... and we also have 4/4 sections with sparse 3/4 and 5/4 measures along the way...

Cheers
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Old 06-19-2012, 01:04 AM   #5
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Default Test results + next question

Hi guys,
I tried out your suggestions,
I found the track quantizing property popup as suggested, and that got me into quantizing right during recording.
This to some extent is good, to some other it is less than optimal because it leads me to have many notes out of sync also after the quantization, but that's because of my sloppy drum playing

Now the next question is :
Does any of you have some sort of workflow to properly lay down a nicely fitting drum track?

The context is: our music has lots of different tempos within the same song, so I wondered if I had to first lay down some 'click track' with all tempo changes in place, which would be quite a long work, or rather if there might be a way to save me from all that work and proceed differently.
Any suggestions about that?
Thanks in advance again
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Old 06-19-2012, 03:28 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by finzic View Post
Hi guys,
I tried out your suggestions,
I found the track quantizing property popup as suggested, and that got me into quantizing right during recording.
This to some extent is good, to some other it is less than optimal because it leads me to have many notes out of sync also after the quantization, but that's because of my sloppy drum playing

Now the next question is :
Does any of you have some sort of workflow to properly lay down a nicely fitting drum track?

The context is: our music has lots of different tempos within the same song, so I wondered if I had to first lay down some 'click track' with all tempo changes in place, which would be quite a long work, or rather if there might be a way to save me from all that work and proceed differently.
Any suggestions about that?
Thanks in advance again
I kind of think you have two choices here - record how you currently do it, with no click track, and then tempo map to what you recorded. The result will be as you described in the OP, with the tempo varying throughout the song. But each measure will have the right grid for easy quantization work.
The other choice would be to set up the click track including tempo changes prior to recording. That way you'll have a consistent tempo in between the intentional tempo changes, and unintentional tempo changes will be easy to spot and fix.

I guess a third choice is to practice more/get a different drummer!

I personally would try the click track, but I understand that it takes practice to play drums along with a click track. (I'm not a drummer, so I'm taking people's word on this.)

Last edited by KevinW; 06-19-2012 at 03:49 AM.
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Old 06-19-2012, 01:39 PM   #7
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I kind of think you have two choices here - record how you currently do it, with no click track, and then tempo map to what you recorded. The result will be as you described in the OP, with the tempo varying throughout the song. But each measure will have the right grid for easy quantization work.
The other choice would be to set up the click track including tempo changes prior to recording. That way you'll have a consistent tempo in between the intentional tempo changes, and unintentional tempo changes will be easy to spot and fix.

I guess a third choice is to practice more/get a different drummer!

I personally would try the click track, but I understand that it takes practice to play drums along with a click track. (I'm not a drummer, so I'm taking people's word on this.)
Thank you Kevin for your answer,
so you say that tempo-mapping would indeed enable me to further refine things later.
Now, I've been thinking of how to do that but I'm sure there are functions of Reaper I do not master enough. How would you proceed in quantizing each and every single measure in that case?
Thanks once again
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Old 06-19-2012, 02:57 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by finzic View Post
Thank you Kevin for your answer,
so you say that tempo-mapping would indeed enable me to further refine things later.
Now, I've been thinking of how to do that but I'm sure there are functions of Reaper I do not master enough. How would you proceed in quantizing each and every single measure in that case?
Thanks once again
This thread is a good start. There's a few things that have to done slightly differently but it's close. I do this all the time and it takes a little time but once you get used to it it's fairly quick and simple. Makes all the difference getting midi to line up and puts the song in the right perspective.

http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=14737
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Old 06-19-2012, 06:34 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by finzic View Post
Thank you Kevin for your answer,
so you say that tempo-mapping would indeed enable me to further refine things later.
Now, I've been thinking of how to do that but I'm sure there are functions of Reaper I do not master enough. How would you proceed in quantizing each and every single measure in that case?
Thanks once again
Read through the thread that Tod posted. For midi items, before you proceed to input tempo changes, you need to right click the item, choose "source properties", and in the dialog that appears, put a check in the box that says "Ignore Project Tempo, use:___"

Fill in the blank there with the tempo that you recorded the track at.

Then, move the items so that the first beat is in line with a measure, and proceed with tempo mapping per the referenced thread, starting from that point.

Once you get that done, you'll be left with a project that has the precise tempo at each measure. When I'm doing midi drums like this, I then create a dummy track, route the midi drum track to the dummy track, and arm the dummy track for recording - but choose the record mode on that track as "Record output:midi". Press record and let the song play through. Then, you're left with a midi item that is the same as the original, except that it does NOT ignore the project tempo. Move that new midi item to the original drum track, and delete the original midi item.

Now, you can quantize the midi item all at once. You don't have to quantize it measure by measure. The grid is now going to be very close to the midi notes throughout the entire project, so assuming the playing is halfway decent, quantization would work. You can also apply the humanization to it as well, but that might not be necessary, given that you've essentially written in the natural tempo variations of a human.

If you follow the pre-releases, you may have noticed that there are some improvements being discussed in how Reaper handles tempo changes, so we have that to look forward to as well. But what I've described and what Tod referenced is the procedure for the current release, V4.22 (and 4.21, 4.20, etc. - back into V3, for sure).
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Old 06-20-2012, 07:06 AM   #10
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Default Great tip

Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinW View Post
Read through the thread that Tod posted. For midi items, before you proceed to input tempo changes, you need to right click the item, choose "source properties", and in the dialog that appears, put a check in the box that says "Ignore Project Tempo, use:___"

Fill in the blank there with the tempo that you recorded the track at.
I assume this tempo is let's say the 'main' BPM I played my song at, right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinW View Post
Then, move the items so that the first beat is in line with a measure, and proceed with tempo mapping per the referenced thread, starting from that point.
When you say _move the items_ do you refer to midi items generated by splitting the original or to single MIDI notes?
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinW View Post
Once you get that done, you'll be left with a project that has the precise tempo at each measure. When I'm doing midi drums like this, I then create a dummy track, route the midi drum track to the dummy track, and arm the dummy track for recording - but choose the record mode on that track as "Record output:midi". Press record and let the song play through. Then, you're left with a midi item that is the same as the original, except that it does NOT ignore the project tempo. Move that new midi item to the original drum track, and delete the original midi item.

Now, you can quantize the midi item all at once. You don't have to quantize it measure by measure. The grid is now going to be very close to the midi notes throughout the entire project, so assuming the playing is halfway decent, quantization would work. You can also apply the humanization to it as well, but that might not be necessary, given that you've essentially written in the natural tempo variations of a human.

If you follow the pre-releases, you may have noticed that there are some improvements being discussed in how Reaper handles tempo changes, so we have that to look forward to as well. But what I've described and what Tod referenced is the procedure for the current release, V4.22 (and 4.21, 4.20, etc. - back into V3, for sure).
Thanks for the tip,I'll definitely elaborate on that.
I thought that there should be a way to 'tempo-map' also MIDI, because in Tom's thread "Tempo mapping 101" they map a sampled drum track and not a MIDI one, so I didn't understand how to 'tab' to next measure's first beat and so one.
I will try this, thanks a lot in advance!
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Old 06-20-2012, 07:51 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod View Post
This thread is a good start. There's a few things that have to done slightly differently but it's close. I do this all the time and it takes a little time but once you get used to it it's fairly quick and simple. Makes all the difference getting midi to line up and puts the song in the right perspective.

http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=14737
Hi Tod..and other interested ppl...have u tried this variation....It is very similar to that threads method, but u use sws /fingers groove tool to "quantize" the markers to your midi/audio ...just wondered if u ever saw it.

http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.p...tizing+markers

If tempo mapping a freetime midi track , u can skip to the part just after the Dynamic split.

I now record mostly band stuff..at least the ones that im playing drums on..to no click..tell em to take a break..and i tempo map the song...REMOVE the tempo changes...except the first one...and bam..all the unwanted tempo changes are gone. "Soft" quantize from there. Works great.

Guido

EDIT...I would not use the current prerealses for this,as the way tempo markers snap in the pre's is kinda broken.
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Old 06-20-2012, 08:01 AM   #12
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Once you get that done, you'll be left with a project that has the precise tempo at each measure. When I'm doing midi drums like this, I then create a dummy track, route the midi drum track to the dummy track, and arm the dummy track for recording - but choose the record mode on that track as "Record output:midi". Press record and let the song play through. Then, you're left with a midi item that is the same as the original, except that it does NOT ignore the project tempo. Move that new midi item to the original drum track, and delete the original midi item.
Hi,

Hey kevin, u can accomplish the same by using Glue item on ur "ignore" midi item and skip one step.
Man its great to see ppl doin this stuff with Reaper! Great tips btw!

Guido
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Old 06-20-2012, 04:01 PM   #13
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Hi,

Hey kevin, u can accomplish the same by using Glue item on ur "ignore" midi item and skip one step.
Man its great to see ppl doin this stuff with Reaper! Great tips btw!

Guido
Excellent. Thanks for that tip.
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Old 06-20-2012, 04:14 PM   #14
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I assume this tempo is let's say the 'main' BPM I played my song at, right?
Yes. I always have mine set to 120BPM as the default so I can remember.

Quote:
When you say _move the items_ do you refer to midi items generated by splitting the original or to single MIDI notes?
Move the entire item so that the first beat is on a bar. If you don't then you end up with some partial measures/weird stuff.

Quote:
Thanks for the tip,I'll definitely elaborate on that.
I thought that there should be a way to 'tempo-map' also MIDI, because in Tom's thread "Tempo mapping 101" they map a sampled drum track and not a MIDI one, so I didn't understand how to 'tab' to next measure's first beat and so one.
I will try this, thanks a lot in advance!
I believe that method is using "tab to transients" to align the markers to the beat. With midi items, you could always render the midi item and use that audio item's transients. Or, you can just align the marker to the midi note. If you make the track height very large you can see the notes well enough, at least for my purposes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guido
Hi Tod..and other interested ppl...have u tried this variation....It is very similar to that threads method, but u use sws /fingers groove tool to "quantize" the markers to your midi/audio ...just wondered if u ever saw it.

http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.p...tizing+markers
I would be "another interested ppl", and I did see that, but since I only need to do this on about 4 or 5 projects per year, I decided to just stick with what I knew. But you post there is very well done. BTW, did you realize there's a typo in that thread title? You left out one of the "n"s in "quantizing".

I have not played much with the pre-release, but I'm sure hoping that all this stuff gets easier and better with the next version.
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Old 06-21-2012, 12:25 AM   #15
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EDIT...I would not use the current prerealses for this,as the way tempo markers snap in the pre's is kinda broken.
Guido thanks a lot, can't wait to try and see if I got this idea running.
By the way, I am sticking with reaper v3.51 just because I have it installed on all the different PCs and Macs we use with the band and I'm not that confident that all plugins would work with the more recent releases - let's hope it's gonna work fine regardless of that
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Old 06-21-2012, 01:12 AM   #16
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Default Different view on the same problem

Hi guys, a question:
all these techniques start with audio samples.
My thing is:

I have one single MIDI item with all drum events in it, meaning that the single MIDI item has kick, snare, hihat, ride notes within the same item.
Perhaps the idea could be to find a method to 'extract' the events of every single 'drum piece' to a specific track and render them in wave. After this step, I think I could apply all the techniques you outlined.

In other words: in many of these tutorials there's a drum recording of 6-8 tracks. Wouldn't it be necessary to split the single MIDI item track of mine into N MIDI tracks, each one with the events of a single 'piece' of the drumkit? (and... how? )
Thanks once more
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Old 06-21-2012, 04:07 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by finzic View Post
Hi guys, a question:
all these techniques start with audio samples.
My thing is:

I have one single MIDI item with all drum events in it, meaning that the single MIDI item has kick, snare, hihat, ride notes within the same item.
Perhaps the idea could be to find a method to 'extract' the events of every single 'drum piece' to a specific track and render them in wave. After this step, I think I could apply all the techniques you outlined.

In other words: in many of these tutorials there's a drum recording of 6-8 tracks. Wouldn't it be necessary to split the single MIDI item track of mine into N MIDI tracks, each one with the events of a single 'piece' of the drumkit? (and... how? )
Thanks once more
You can use the methods posted on your single midi file without rendering it to audio.

I won't be at my DAW for about 12 hours, but I'll try to remember to make a very short video of how to do what you want to do. To boil down the steps that have been mentioned in this thread:

1. make the midi item ignore the project tempo (source properties dialog)
2. Move the midi item so that the first note starts at a whole bar number (doesn't have to be the very first bar)
3. Play the song, and drop a marker at each bar (as you hear it - ignore the existing bars in Reaper - they are obviously wrong).
4. Zoom in a little so you can see if your markers accurately line up with the midi notes that start on each bar. Move the markers a little if needed (this is where the audio wave form could be of use, but it is NOT a requirement.)
5. Now, you need to start with the first marker, and create a time selection between the first and second markers. You can do this by doubleclicking the timeline between the two markers, or even better, create a macro that does this and the next step for you.
6. run the action "create measure from time selection" (might not have the exact wording right - but it's in the other tutorial, and so is the macro)
7. Repeat this for the entire song. I have the macro set up and assigned to "Shift-Q". So once the markers are in place, it takes about 30 seconds to map the entire project.
8. Glue the midi item so it will obey the project tempo (Thanks Guido!)

Now, turn on your metronome and play the song - they should be pretty well aligned.

If you find problems, then I have found it easier just to undo back to the point of the problem. If you change a tempo marker, then all tempo markers following that one get screwed up. (Hopefully fixed in the next version.)

I hope this helps. It really is easier to do it than to write about it.

To answer your questions about splitting out the pieces of the drum kit - yes you can do that, but the method will depend a little on the VSTi you are using. Or, you could just go into the midi item, select all the notes, mute them all, then select the kick drum notes, for example (right click on the corresponding piano roll note to select just that row of notes) and un-mute just the kick drum notes. Now render the track to audio (right click the track, select "Render tracks to mono stems". Now you have an audio file of just the kick that you could use for the tempo mapping method. But if you're using a multi-out VSTi like Addictive Drums or BFD, there are easier ways.

Last edited by KevinW; 06-21-2012 at 04:14 AM.
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Old 06-21-2012, 03:22 PM   #18
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Both Guido and Kevin have good stuff here and I can't add anything. However, I keep it what I think is a little simpler.

I like Guido's idea of rendering a track that separates the low frequencies, however that depends on whether the song has a kik drum or some other low freq instrument that can create the proper beats. Basically I just put in markers by ear and use common sense to fine tune their positions. Although each production can be a little different, these are the basic steps.

1> get a rough idea of the BPM of the first 4 to 8 measures. There are several ways to do this. I have an old SMPTE box from back in the old tape days that I can tap to get a rough idea. I think Reaper has a way of tapping the tempo although I'm not sure I've never used it. One way or another, with a little ingenuity it's not to hard to figure it out.

2> Set the project tempo to the rough BPM and put the first three markers on the first three measures, 1.1, 2.1 and 3.1. This is for a two bar countin.

3> Select all the recorded audio items and move them so that the first downbeat of the first measure lines up with bar 3 (the 3rd marker). Most of the time this will be the downbeat of the intro. If there are any pickup notes they should end up in measure 2. Also at this point, look at the way bars 4, 5, 6, ect. line up and if they look good put markers on their downbeats too.

4> Play the song and manually put in markers (pressing "M") starting where you left off. If you only put in the first 3 markers start pressing "M" on bar 4.

5> Fine tune the positions. Zoom in close on the audio tracks and move each marker to what appears to be the down beat of the measures as you go along. This can be a little difficult but with practice it becomes much easier. If you find it hard to position a particular marker, look at the surrounding markers and use some common sense. For instance, go to the the last marker you know is on the beat and then find the next marker that you know is on the beat. Unless there is a drastic tempo change the markers in between should be evenly spaced.

6> Run the make tempo macro from the front to the back. I didn't look too closely at Guido's custom action but I think it's the same one I use. Although you should be able to just press the shortcut key you assign to this macro and let it run to the end, I suggest you just press it quickly for each marker, I've had it screw up otherwise. It really don't take much longer.

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Old 06-26-2012, 03:53 AM   #19
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You can use the methods posted on your single midi file without rendering it to audio.

I won't be at my DAW for about 12 hours, but I'll try to remember to make a very short video of how to do what you want to do. To boil down the steps that have been mentioned in this thread:

1. make the midi item ignore the project tempo (source properties dialog)
2. Move the midi item so that the first note starts at a whole bar number (doesn't have to be the very first bar)
3. Play the song, and drop a marker at each bar (as you hear it - ignore the existing bars in Reaper - they are obviously wrong).
4. Zoom in a little so you can see if your markers accurately line up with the midi notes that start on each bar. Move the markers a little if needed (this is where the audio wave form could be of use, but it is NOT a requirement.)
5. Now, you need to start with the first marker, and create a time selection between the first and second markers. You can do this by doubleclicking the timeline between the two markers, or even better, create a macro that does this and the next step for you.
6. run the action "create measure from time selection" (might not have the exact wording right - but it's in the other tutorial, and so is the macro)
7. Repeat this for the entire song. I have the macro set up and assigned to "Shift-Q". So once the markers are in place, it takes about 30 seconds to map the entire project.
Hi Kevin,
I pretty much did this,
my only thing is: it's really tedious to get the cursor precisely 'at' the kick drum 1st note every measure, so in order to speed up the marker 'adjustment' I have rendered a drum stem track so that I could use the 'tab to next transient'. With that, there's still a lot of manual work to do but at least it is considerably faster for me.
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8. Glue the midi item so it will obey the project tempo (Thanks Guido!)
I did not understand that, actually - I tried out the method outlined earlier that uses a new MIDI track with the original MIDI track routed to this new one, and it pretty much 'kinda' worked.
I tried executing the 'glue' command on my 'big' MIDI item, but I did not notice anything significative.

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If you find problems, then I have found it easier just to undo back to the point of the problem. If you change a tempo marker, then all tempo markers following that one get screwed up. (Hopefully fixed in the next version.)
Would it be possible to just use 'ripple editing' to accommodate possible changes to time signatures ?
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Old 06-26-2012, 04:42 PM   #20
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Hi guys,
I've been trying these fine techniques and I got over them both.
I have applied the Tempo-Mapping 101 technique and the tip of routing a track to a MIDI one, and then quantizing this one, and it got almost perfect! It then took me a while to figure out what kind of weird time division I was using or better I was pretending to use: and it came out that for some shuffle parts of my song I actually use a sort of 1/16 triplets division.
I used the MIDI editor and there I could then modify the grid setting to enable 1/16 triplets for that part where I need it.
Great stuff, thanks a lot you nice people!
Now I deserve plenty of sleep
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Old 06-26-2012, 06:20 PM   #21
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Hi guys,
I've been trying these fine techniques and I got over them both.
I have applied the Tempo-Mapping 101 technique and the tip of routing a track to a MIDI one, and then quantizing this one, and it got almost perfect! It then took me a while to figure out what kind of weird time division I was using or better I was pretending to use: and it came out that for some shuffle parts of my song I actually use a sort of 1/16 triplets division.
I used the MIDI editor and there I could then modify the grid setting to enable 1/16 triplets for that part where I need it.
Great stuff, thanks a lot you nice people!
Now I deserve plenty of sleep
Hey, glad you're up and running with it. BTW, gluing the midi item won't change anything obvious. But not doing it will cause unpredictable results if you do further edits. Try it and see what I mean. Gluing it simply restores the midi item setting "ignore project tempo" to be off.
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Old 06-27-2012, 09:46 PM   #22
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Hey, glad you're up and running with it. BTW, gluing the midi item won't change anything obvious. But not doing it will cause unpredictable results if you do further edits. Try it and see what I mean. Gluing it simply restores the midi item setting "ignore project tempo" to be off.
Hi,

Yes to that ..except add that it "takes on " the new tempo as its "true" tempo. Think of it as what Logic calls "normalizing non destructive parameters".
Meaning, many things u do to an item in Reaper is non destuctive..ie. altering the length of a item..when u glue the item it makes the new length the "official" item length. So u could loop it accurately. Make sense?

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Old 06-27-2012, 09:50 PM   #23
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Now I deserve plenty of sleep
Hi,

Ahh si....dormilione!^^

Sorry

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Old 04-14-2013, 12:38 PM   #24
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Default Tempo Map and BPM change - problem

hi guys,
I have stumbled into this problem:
I am tempo-mapping a song which has many time changes (4/4 to 2/4 and back) and also metronome changes in BPM: normal parts are say 240BPM and 'half tempo feel' sections are around 120BPM.
Now my problem is:
I put all markers and prepared a macro that does the following:
1) Time selectoin: set starting point
2) Markers: go to next marker/project end
3) Time selecton: set end point
4) create measure trom time selection (new time signature)

As you can see from the following picture:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...-signature.jpg

I have marker 10 : 120.979 4/4
marker 12: correctly sets 238.046
but in the selection of markers 12-13 it gets a weird half of that, around 121.
How is this possible?
I can't understand how to make it consistent. I am expecting a sequence of time signature markers around 238, but from that measure on it gets to around 121-122 which is somehow half tempo.
Please does anybody know how to make it all consistent?
>Thanks in advance
Luca.
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Old 04-14-2013, 01:34 PM   #25
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I have marker 10 : 120.979 4/4
marker 12: correctly sets 238.046
but in the selection of markers 12-13 it gets a weird half of that, around 121.
How is this possible?
Hi Luca, I don't understand, your picture shows marker 13 to be the same as marker 12, 238.046 not 121?
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Old 04-14-2013, 01:50 PM   #26
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Hi Luca, I don't understand, your picture shows marker 13 to be the same as marker 12, 238.046 not 121?
Hi Tod,
thanks for the prompt answer.
marker 12 has a time marker of 238.046 and marker 13 as well has a time marker with the same value. They are the result of the macro I described being applied to a selection that starts at measure 12 and ends at measure 13.
Now look at the selected area: it extends from marker 13 to marker 14. Right after running "Create measure from time selection (new time signature) " I got the popup that proposes a 4/4 time signature, a span of 1 bar and a detected tempo of 121.896 BPM.
My point is:
Why it is 121.896 BPM and not 121.896 * 2 = 243.792 which is much closer to the BPMs of the previous bar, 238.046?
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Old 04-14-2013, 02:24 PM   #27
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Hi Tod,
thanks for the prompt answer.
marker 12 has a time marker of 238.046 and marker 13 as well has a time marker with the same value. They are the result of the macro I described being applied to a selection that starts at measure 12 and ends at measure 13.
Now look at the selected area: it extends from marker 13 to marker 14. Right after running "Create measure from time selection (new time signature) " I got the popup that proposes a 4/4 time signature, a span of 1 bar and a detected tempo of 121.896 BPM.
My point is:
Why it is 121.896 BPM and not 121.896 * 2 = 243.792 which is much closer to the BPMs of the previous bar, 238.046?
Okay, your Edit Time Signature window threw me, what version of Reaper are you using? Not sure whether it's saying a span of 1 Bar or at position Bar-1?

If you're still on Reaper 3.x I highly recommend you update to R-4.

Oops, okay I see at the top of your picture you using R-4.32.

Humm, my edit time sig or add new time sig window is labeled Tempo/Time Signature..., and has different settings than your's does.

Let me check out my macro for doing this and I'll get back to you.
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Old 04-14-2013, 02:48 PM   #28
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Okay, I see you've got a different action on the end of your macro than I do. You're using Create measure from time selection (new time signature) while I'm using Create measure from time selection (detect tempo).

However, I don't think that should make any difference.

I just did some test using Create measure from time selection (new time signature) and it seems to work properly.

In Project Settings do you have Timebase for items/envelopes/markers set to Time?
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Old 04-15-2013, 12:51 PM   #29
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Okay, I see you've got a different action on the end of your macro than I do. You're using Create measure from time selection (new time signature) while I'm using Create measure from time selection (detect tempo).

However, I don't think that should make any difference.

I just did some test using Create measure from time selection (new time signature) and it seems to work properly.

In Project Settings do you have Timebase for items/envelopes/markers set to Time?
Hi Tod,
I have Timebase for items/envelopes/markers set to Time and also Timebase for tempo/time signature envelope set to Beats.
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Old 04-15-2013, 02:41 PM   #30
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Hi Tod,
I have Timebase for items/envelopes/markers set to Time and also Timebase for tempo/time signature envelope set to Beats.
Hi Luca, I've never changed the Timebase for tempo/time signature envelope and mine is set to Beats also.

Like I mentioned I just did some quick and simple tests with Create measure from time selection (new time signature) and it seemed to work fine.

However I just created the macro just like yours and when it got to double time it didn't work right. So then I ran my macro and it did the same thing, when it got to the double time it didn't make full measures.

In other words, I had markers 10 thru 16 set up for double time. The basic over all tempo it 120-BPM. When it got to marker 10 it created a tempo marker of 120 but it left marker 11 at position 10:03. In other words it appears to have created a 2/4 measure but there is no Time Signature change, neither on the Time Line or in the dialog, it still shows 4/4.

This has got to be a flaw or bug.
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Old 04-15-2013, 03:24 PM   #31
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Hi Luca, I've never changed the Timebase for tempo/time signature envelope and mine is set to Beats also.

Like I mentioned I just did some quick and simple tests with Create measure from time selection (new time signature) and it seemed to work fine.

However I just created the macro just like yours and when it got to double time it didn't work right. So then I ran my macro and it did the same thing, when it got to the double time it didn't make full measures.

In other words, I had markers 10 thru 16 set up for double time. The basic over all tempo it 120-BPM. When it got to marker 10 it created a tempo marker of 120 but it left marker 11 at position 10:03. In other words it appears to have created a 2/4 measure but there is no Time Signature change, neither on the Time Line or in the dialog, it still shows 4/4.

This has got to be a flaw or bug.
Thank you Tod for the test
I was thinking about this today and I sort of tried to justify the result with the following idea:
perhaps either it is a flaw or bug, or it is some sort of calculation quirk that comes out. It seems like Reaper tries always to get the 'least' possible BPM that might fit your selection. It does anyway look weird to me, because the BPM should be univocally determined by the selection time interval AND the number of measures you put in the popup input box. Instead, the value of the number of measures is apparently not always taken into consideration. I believe there must be some fraction simplification somewhere hidden in the formulas. Anyways, it's a minor flaw...
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Old 04-15-2013, 03:48 PM   #32
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Anyways, it's a minor flaw...
Well yeah, sorta.

If you stop and think about it, under normal conditions when you go to double time the time signature does change, 4/4 to 2/4 for example.

Still I think you should be able to get double time without changing the time sig.

Actually I wonder just how much or how little of a time change will create this bug?

Heh heh, it should probably be explored a little further.
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