Old 06-09-2006, 03:15 AM   #1
sinkmusic
Human being with feelings
 
sinkmusic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: decepticon mothership in a hidden place inside a mountain
Posts: 3,357
Default The BIG MIDI REQUEST

As on some other threads, some people from the team told me that Midi requests and priorities were not easy to understand/classify (even the ones reported in the Wiki), and as many midi suggestions are made in every "versino 0,9xx is up !" thread witout being followed since a new versions see the day every week, i open a dedicated thread to midi freaks requests :

I don't want to talk as if i were a team member, but the purpose would be to discuss on the midi FR priorities :
- what to implement in first ?
- Is my/your needs OUR needs, or a single user's wish ?
- how can we improve one user's idea/request in a massively requested urgent killa feature ?

To sum up :
1- let's sort 3 "urgent needs" to make Reaper a decent, handy, quick & efficient midi daw
2- and then, suggest "wishes" we'd like to see a bit later : useful/fun/weird/special stuff ;

Last edited by sinkmusic; 06-09-2006 at 06:27 PM.
sinkmusic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2006, 03:18 AM   #2
sinkmusic
Human being with feelings
 
sinkmusic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: decepticon mothership in a hidden place inside a mountain
Posts: 3,357
Default

Here is what i have just posted here : http://www.cockos.com/forum/showthre...ted=1#post8977



[1]_ MIDI LOOP RECORDING
I(/we ?) REALLY need to be able to record beats. So, we need midi loop recording.
For the moment, i can't gest used to end up with 6 takes each time i want to record a drum pattern : i have hats on the first take, kicks on the second, then snares,etc. I want that when the loop goes back to the beginning that the midi notes are merged in a single pattern which will be as long as the defined loop.



[2]_ CC EDITING
I want to be able to edit any cc parameters, using enveloppes, from within the pattern AND/OR the track (just like Fruity loops, Tracktion, Live does).
Let's take an example : i have a bass synth pattern, i want to decrease decay and make a cutoff sweep on the end of the pattern, in opening it in the midi editor, i have to be able to draw a "decay" enveloppe, or a "cutoff" enveloppe. This is a starting point, then i'd like to be able to make "special" curves (not the ones embedded in the pattern) a certain moments on the track (like you can do in Live, in horizontal mode).
About that, i had posted some suggestions, and even pictures on how some other DAW already do, and how i could imagine Reaper handles such a feature.



[3]_ IMPROVED MIDI EDITOR
The midi editor is tooo basic.

- PLAY/PAUSE : When i select a note, most of the time i select and modify velocity without wanting it, when i hit "space" to make the pattern stop playing, it goes back to the beginning, which seems quite unlogical as in the main window you hit "space" for "sart play", but also for "stop play". I think it should be the same.
It is quite hard to get into Reaper's shortcut (you HAVE to get used to , as ther isn't any tools), as there are plenty, so if the shortcuts aren't the same in the main windows and in the midi editor, it is a mess.

- CURVES: So i think (as i suggested above), that velocity, as other parametres should be in [i]a line below the notes[i], and not a microscopic line on the notes.

- EASY WAY : I would also like to create a new note by clicking or double-clicking (hitting "insert" makes midi editing too slow and boring), and removing them by right-clicking.

- in the midi editor : better visible bar indicator (the bar number could be written above, as in the main screen, and the green color hurt the eyes combined to thin orange & red lines...) ;

- It would also be useful to have a "navigation tool", in order not to have the obligation to hear the full midi clip each time, but place a cursor from where we want the lecture to start.




[4]_ MIDI LEARN
i need Midi learn, to assign any parameter from a VST/VSTI plugin(or a reaper command, like track volume faders) to a knob or a fader or a note from my external midi hardware.
I think i posted several messages about that, and that it had been hugely discussed on the v0,951 thread, and that it was a quite "massive" request (I think SYnth was on my side, and some other users who told they wanted it so badly).




[5]_ MIDI CLONING
I need Midi pattern cloning : you take one pattern, edit it, and then "save as".
Let's say i want to make a progressive beat : i have a basic beat in pattern one, and i want the seonc pattern is the same beat but with added tamburine,and with a different positionned snare on 3d bar : i open the first pattern (let's call it "drum01", how original), modify it, then save it AS "drum02".
THis should be usefull inside the editor, but also : on the main window, you pick a midi clip, copy/paste it where you want, right-click, and there you would have a "save as" option. Then, you can open it in the midi editor without fearing to "save" instead of "save "as".
It would be better to be able to make a copy of the original pattern AFTER having editing it (this is why i still request this, even with the "open copy in editor" feazture by right-clicking).




In a first time, this would be the urgent needs (at least in my opinion) to really be able to use midi in Reaper. For the moment, i do use midi, but always expecting improvements as it is quite prehistoric, and if some features are here in thoery, their accessibility is tricky, not really evident or missing.

Last edited by sinkmusic; 06-10-2006 at 05:14 AM.
sinkmusic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2006, 04:42 AM   #3
rforssell
Human being with feelings
 
rforssell's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Skellefteå, Sweden
Posts: 365
Default

Ok, sink - here's another midi freak! All this - midi loop recording, midi cloning, better editor etcetera is very important to me... or will be when I get the chance to get back to composing (after marrying next saturday, and saving some money for some gear )

I will mostly use the program to song sketching, I guess I have less advanced skills than most of you But all of this stuff will come in very handy when/if implemented! So I hope for more midi functionality!

btw - I love reading the forums and all the crazy people that are so totally involved testing, bug reporting, discussing anything that's more or less interesting Very good when you suddenly are bored out at work
rforssell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2006, 04:59 AM   #4
winbe
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,226
Default MIDI user here

Ok !

So as I said many times here and there, the only thing I really really badly need in Reaper is a better MIDI editor.

I simply want a basic (even ugly) "midi event window", with all the events listed in a grid (note, on/off, velocity, start, duration) so you can edit the values instead of trying to move a very small line with the mouse to change velocities note by note...

Also, I often need to change all the velocities by a certain amount, (absolute or percentage), they call this "scale velocities" in Sonar. I really simply want to say "please multiply all the velocities of this event selection by 1.20", so everything will sound louder.

Doing this note by note, and with the mouse, is simply too much pain !

To have a very quick, non destructive way to transpose would be a bonus as well (when I try different instruments for a given track, I often have to transpose by +12 or -12, and I was used to the "key+/-" thing in Sonar which does this as a kind of effect, instead of having to really transpose each event in the track).

Also, I am still totally lost with the way times and measures/beats and bpm are mixed... Working with MIDI, my absolute main concern is really measures/beats, but on many occasions (such as regions and markers) it is still the absolute time which counts. Meaning that if you change tempo, all "time based" instead of "measure/beats" based stuff is useless.
winbe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2006, 05:11 AM   #5
Jason Brian Merrill
Human being with feelings
 
Jason Brian Merrill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Northeastern PA, USA
Posts: 20,850
Default

check this thread for various midi FRs

http://www.cockos.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1058
__________________
Beliefs do not require respect. People do.
Jason Brian Merrill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2006, 07:00 AM   #6
ajs
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 193
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rforssell
Ok, sink - here's another midi freak!
...a big MIDI freak here, too.

MIDI is insanely powerful and crucial to the way many many people work, and I, too, am patiently salivating over future offerings in this area.

I'll be keeping my eye on what Reaper does for that huge chunk of users....

-a
ajs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2006, 10:46 AM   #7
pipelineaudio
Mortal
 
pipelineaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Wickenburg, Arizona
Posts: 13,437
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sinkmusic
_ MIDI CLONING
I need Midi pattern cloning : you take one pattern, edit it, and then "save as". Let's say i want to make a progressive beat : i have a basic beat in pattern one, and i want the seonc pattern is the same beat but with added tamburine,and with a different positionned snare on 3d bar : i open the first pattern (let's call it "drum01", how original), modify it, then save it AS "drum02".
THis should be usefull inside the editor, but also : on the main window, you pick a midi clip, copy/paste it where you want, right-click, and there you would have a "save as" option. Then, you can open it in the midi editor without fearing to "save" instead of "save "as".
.
You can do this right now by using "open COPY" instead of "open" when you are calling up the midi editor. It needs a save as though in case you want to do it from the original instead
pipelineaudio is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2006, 10:50 AM   #8
pipelineaudio
Mortal
 
pipelineaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Wickenburg, Arizona
Posts: 13,437
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by winbe
Ok !

To have a very quick, non destructive way to transpose would be a bonus as well (when I try different instruments for a given track, I often have to transpose by +12 or -12, and I was used to the "key+/-" thing in Sonar which does this as a kind of effect, instead of having to really transpose each event in the track).
.
Click on the item you are concerned about ( or select multiple items) and press shift-9 and shift 0 to pitch up or down
pipelineaudio is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2006, 10:59 AM   #9
winbe
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,226
Default transpose

Thanks, did not know about this one.
But what I meant is a way to transpose the track without modifying it (without having to re-save it). In Sonar, it is a kind of general modifier for the track, like the volume, or the pan.




Quote:
Originally Posted by pipelineaudio
Click on the item you are concerned about ( or select multiple items) and press shift-9 and shift 0 to pitch up or down
winbe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2006, 11:01 AM   #10
pipelineaudio
Mortal
 
pipelineaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Wickenburg, Arizona
Posts: 13,437
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by winbe
Thanks, did not know about this one.
But what I meant is a way to transpose the track without modifying it (without having to re-save it). In Sonar, it is a kind of general modifier for the track, like the volume, or the pan.
This is totally nondestructive and in options if you chose to show item names/info you can even see the amount
pipelineaudio is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2006, 11:09 AM   #11
sinkmusic
Human being with feelings
 
sinkmusic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: decepticon mothership in a hidden place inside a mountain
Posts: 3,357
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pipelineaudio
You can do this right now by using "open COPY" instead of "open" when you are calling up the midi editor. It needs a save as though in case you want to do it from the original instead
Yes thank you for the tip. I already rade this one on another thread.
But putting a simple "save as" lets you be more "musical", in the sens you can open the file in the editor without really knowing if/what you want to edit... You can play with the midi clip, and THEN (and not BEFORE opening it in the editor) save it AS.
Nothing big, but it can suit better to some people's way of doing music.
sinkmusic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2006, 11:12 AM   #12
sinkmusic
Human being with feelings
 
sinkmusic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: decepticon mothership in a hidden place inside a mountain
Posts: 3,357
Default

As it did not seemed very obvious what were the big midi needs, i have made a "megamix" of the way midi is handled in some more hosts, and mainly the way i guess many midi users would like Reaper let them do in a (near) future...
I hope this IS the kind of way many of us would like Reaper behave with midi clips, and that it can help to understand better our needs for the audio-only people.

http://www.stashbox.org/uploads/1149...r_MidiEdit.jpg

This, and midi loop recording -to be able to record beats- are really the 2 big things i need the soonest.
Midi learn would be awesome, but less urgent that the two stated above;
I hope those 2 requests -which would make REaper a decent midi software (at least as good or better than the very average Acid and Tracktion, not yet as good as Live or Fruity Loops)- are also wished by the developping team, not too hard to implement, and could be available sooner than V1 (in order to give a bugless initial release, with basic but good, efficient and user-friendly midi features).

Last edited by sinkmusic; 06-09-2006 at 11:18 AM.
sinkmusic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2006, 11:24 AM   #13
pipelineaudio
Mortal
 
pipelineaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Wickenburg, Arizona
Posts: 13,437
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sinkmusic
Yes thank you for the tip. I already rade this one on another thread.
But putting a simple "save as" lets you be more "musical", in the sens you can open the file in the editor without really knowing if/what you want to edit... You can play with the midi clip, and THEN (and not BEFORE opening it in the editor) save it AS.
Nothing big, but it can suit better to some people's way of doing music.
Weve been bugging for a save as in there for a while. I think this means Justin has thought something up even better and is waiting to stun us with it when some other pieces fall into place
pipelineaudio is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2006, 01:52 PM   #14
winbe
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,226
Default shift 0 ? from where ?

Hello,

in fact I have not the faintest idea when to press your shift-9 and shift-0, and from which window...

Are you talking about Reaper ? Shift 9, wherever I am, makes a vertical zoom, and shift 0, from the main window, tries to import a new file...

And by the way, this is another problem I have: how can I select multiple events, in an easy way in the midi editor ??
The only way which seem to work is Ctrl+click, on each event I want to add to my selection...

I guess I need to try every shift/alt/ctrl shortcut, because there are some hidden functions maybe...

Quote:
Originally Posted by pipelineaudio
This is totally nondestructive and in options if you chose to show item names/info you can even see the amount
winbe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2006, 01:55 PM   #15
winbe
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,226
Default "shot item/names info" option ?

Wow, I am a bit lost, it seems I am not using the same software as you... I tried hard, but was unable to find this option you are talking me about...

Maybe a good night of sleep

EDIT: ok, ok, I was using the 0 and 9 from my numeric keypad... And I was thinking "events" instead of "items".
Sorry for that! Thanks for the tip, works great! !


Quote:
Originally Posted by pipelineaudio
This is totally nondestructive and in options if you chose to show item names/info you can even see the amount

Last edited by winbe; 06-09-2006 at 01:59 PM.
winbe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2006, 01:58 PM   #16
fluffy
Human being with feelings
 
fluffy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Port Neches, Texas
Posts: 1,949
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by winbe
Hello,

in fact I have not the faintest idea when to press your shift-9 and shift-0, and from which window...

Are you talking about Reaper ? Shift 9, wherever I am, makes a vertical zoom, and shift 0, from the main window, tries to import a new file...
You have to use the numbers above the letters, NOT on the numberpad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by winbe
how can I select multiple events, in an easy way in the midi editor ??
ALT+drag.
__________________
IT'S A TROMBONE !!!
fluffy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2006, 03:04 PM   #17
Jason Brian Merrill
Human being with feelings
 
Jason Brian Merrill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Northeastern PA, USA
Posts: 20,850
Default

midi looprecording

+1
__________________
Beliefs do not require respect. People do.
Jason Brian Merrill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2006, 03:48 PM   #18
sinkmusic
Human being with feelings
 
sinkmusic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: decepticon mothership in a hidden place inside a mountain
Posts: 3,357
Default

The big post above has been edited (here : http://www.cockos.com/forum/showpost...79&postcount=2 )
Now, i have put numbers for the priorities, and given some more indications.
sinkmusic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2006, 04:08 PM   #19
Jason Brian Merrill
Human being with feelings
 
Jason Brian Merrill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Northeastern PA, USA
Posts: 20,850
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sinkmusic
The big post above has been edited (here : http://www.cockos.com/forum/showpost...79&postcount=2 )
Now, i have put numbers for the priorities, and given some more indications.

+1 on the priorities
__________________
Beliefs do not require respect. People do.
Jason Brian Merrill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2006, 04:16 PM   #20
Jason Brian Merrill
Human being with feelings
 
Jason Brian Merrill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Northeastern PA, USA
Posts: 20,850
Default

Ideas as per cc editing and vsti parameter automation WITHIN a pattern are hhere:

(screenshots and mp3s)

http://www.cockos.com/forum/showpost...8&postcount=21
__________________
Beliefs do not require respect. People do.
Jason Brian Merrill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2006, 04:22 PM   #21
Jason Brian Merrill
Human being with feelings
 
Jason Brian Merrill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Northeastern PA, USA
Posts: 20,850
Default

what about the sustain parameter being used?
__________________
Beliefs do not require respect. People do.
Jason Brian Merrill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2006, 04:27 PM   #22
Jason Brian Merrill
Human being with feelings
 
Jason Brian Merrill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Northeastern PA, USA
Posts: 20,850
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sinkmusic
[3]_ IMPROVED MIDI EDITOR
The midi editor is tooo basic.

- When i select a note, most of the time i select and modify velocity without wanting it, when i hit "space" to make the pattern stop playing, it goes back to the beginning, which seems quite unlogical as in the main window you hit "space" for "sart play", but also for "stop play". I think it should be the same. It is quite hard to get into Reaper's shortcut (you HAVE to get used to , as ther isn't any tools), as there are plenty, so if the shortcuts aren't the same in the main windows and in the midi editor, it is a mess.

related post here

http://www.cockos.com/forum/showpost...65&postcount=2
__________________
Beliefs do not require respect. People do.
Jason Brian Merrill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2006, 11:25 PM   #23
catscandal
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Canberra, Australia
Posts: 177
Default another vote for MIDI enhancements

There is something simple and elegant about the Muzys/ComputerMuzys piano roll that makes it easier to work with than most IMHO. Probably has something to do with default size of piano roll and the way the grid works. That grid is sweet as it can use any 'sequence' as the grid - bit like groove quantize but way simpler...this would be a great add to Reaper and in terms of MIDI editor enhancements recommend checking out CM for a neat one that is simple and effective.

I am currently sequencing some VSTis and an external sampler using CM and piping all audio through fx in Reaper on Rearoute...works a treat...pity that CM and Reaper both only SEND sync info so I can't master one with the other...
catscandal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2006, 05:05 AM   #24
sinkmusic
Human being with feelings
 
sinkmusic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: decepticon mothership in a hidden place inside a mountain
Posts: 3,357
Default midi editor suggestions

Some suggestions to improve the midi editor usage :


_ basically, it needs the same procedures than the main screen : that way, once you're used to the way the main screen works, you need 4 seconds to understand the midi editor.


_ the color gives me headaches. The finest soution to me would be to use the same custom schemes as the main screen. That green/blue grid is terrible, and hurts the eyes a lot.


_ displaying the number of bar of the pattern. At each bar start (red line for thtemoment), it woudl be useful to show up the n° of bar, like the grid in the main window.
When you handle a 16 bar clip with a strong zoom, you don't want to have to zoom out to know if you're at the sart of bar7 or bar8.
Not much, but time gaining.


_ using the [space] for both play & pause, like in the main window.
It's tricky : when i preview a clip, i hit [space] like in any audio/video program. Then i want to make it stop : i think anybody using a computer would hit [space]again. Instead of stopping, it is still playing, and has come back to the beginning of the loop ! Very boring.


_ "save as" feature, as requested many times ;


_ a rectangle selection tool. [EDIT : it is already here : [alt/drag] ! ]
It is really required. This is one of the most basic operations (moving every elements or some of them), so you don't have to need your 2 hands to reach that ([ctrl+alt+right click] : what a pain in the _ss ! !). If the REaper's philosophy is "no tools", just drawing a rectangle with the mouse on the notes you want to select will be very enough and efficient, or something easy to use & remember like : press [ctrl] and draw ytour rectangle with the mouse).


_ more simple shortcut to create/delete notes (the same tricky thing as above : looking for the [insert] is boring and takes too many time) : you must just have to click to create a note, and right -click to delete it.
I mean, i understand the "no tools" attitude, but "no tools" must be understood as "more usefull", and not "let's erad the manual for the 456 times to find out which tricky shortcut it is to make the most basic operation like creating a note"). People must find easy (or beter : "easier") the fact there is no tools.


_ of course, as it is the #2 midi FR in my list, the editor should have 2 lines (or another easy way) : one for the notes, one for the CC curves (velocity, pan, decay, cutoff, etc.).



If the midi editor could work that way, it would be something rather close to heaven for any midi geek, i guess !

(I also edited the big post above at the beginning, to make it more easy to read and find out the main stuff)

Last edited by sinkmusic; 06-10-2006 at 10:05 AM.
sinkmusic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2006, 05:21 AM   #25
PhilR
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Nottingham, England
Posts: 41
Default

My request: A drum map editor.

Programming drums can be a complex process and I don't even want to consider how difficult it would be if I had to memorise the note assignments for each drum and mouse them in using a piano roll editor.
PhilR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2006, 05:25 AM   #26
Art Evans
Mortal
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 6,656
Default

Quote:
so you don't have to need your 2 hands to reach that ([ctrl+alt+right click] ... you must just have to click to create a note...
Unless I am remembering incorrectly, isn't it simply alt/click/drag to select multiple notes, and click to create them already? (Admittedly ctrl/click/drag would be more the windows convention for multiples).
Art Evans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2006, 05:29 AM   #27
Jason Brian Merrill
Human being with feelings
 
Jason Brian Merrill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Northeastern PA, USA
Posts: 20,850
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Evans
Unless I am remembering incorrectly, isn't it simply alt/click/drag to select multiple notes, and click to create them already? (Admittedly ctrl/click/drag would be more the windows convention for multiples).
you are correct, and this function works fine here.
__________________
Beliefs do not require respect. People do.
Jason Brian Merrill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2006, 05:40 AM   #28
sinkmusic
Human being with feelings
 
sinkmusic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: decepticon mothership in a hidden place inside a mountain
Posts: 3,357
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Evans
Unless I am remembering incorrectly, isn't it simply alt/click/drag to select multiple notes, and click to create them already? (Admittedly ctrl/click/drag would be more the windows convention for multiples).
Ok,
You must be right

But, in fact, it doesn't deeply change the problem to me, as it shows up it is not obvious to everyone how to do such a simple thing. I will change my mind and use [alt/click/drag] as it is more easy, but being easy doesn't make it "intuitive".
(thank you for the tip !)

I mean, i didn't had the idea myself to try such a tricky combination of shorcut to draw a selection rectangle ( ), i have found the shortcut in the forum, or in the Reaper Shortcut Guide : it was the way to select multiple clips in the main windows, so i tried to get used to it, even if not liking it....
THe question is : is the most important is having found the shorcut, or the fact that it needs to be found ? Like to create notes in the midi editor, it might be more user-orientated.
sinkmusic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2006, 05:48 AM   #29
sinkmusic
Human being with feelings
 
sinkmusic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: decepticon mothership in a hidden place inside a mountain
Posts: 3,357
Default drumsamplers

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilR
My request: A drum map editor.

Programming drums can be a complex process and I don't even want to consider how difficult it would be if I had to memorise the note assignments for each drum and mouse them in using a piano roll editor.
I like the way Ableton Live does that with his native tools :
The Impulse drumsampler (http://amazona.de/content/musictools...r/image003.jpg)
You have 8 slots where you load samples, but when you edit the midi patttern in the piano roll, the name of the samples is written on the piano notes : very usefull !
you can see it here : http://digitalmedia.oreilly.com/imag..._0205_fig9.jpg

But it needs such an integration of midi stuff, and mightly midi instruments that i don't think we can expect such a thing very soon... In my opinoin, this is an idea to keep in mind, and add to the long list of "wishes".

I had myself to try a lot of drumsaplers to fit in Reaper.
- Shortcircuit is among the best (but the free version has only 2 voices of polyphony).
- Loopazoid works fine. It is ugly but efficient.
Most of the recent drumsaplers let you choose a note for the sample you want.
- One of the most powerfull free sampler allowing you to make drum mpas (and keep the presets in memory) is Paax2 : it has a terrible GUI, but the features are huge !

I guess only native plugins can dislpay the sample name inthe piano roll. And only integrated samplers can offer midi map features.
(as far as i know, but i can be wrong)
sinkmusic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2006, 06:05 AM   #30
Art Evans
Mortal
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 6,656
Default

I'll repeat what I've said before - possibly before we get to version 1.0 Justin & Co will go back over all the default keyboard shortcuts and reconsider them in the light of where development has taken us.

And I use the word "default" deliberately!
Art Evans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2006, 09:25 AM   #31
sinkmusic
Human being with feelings
 
sinkmusic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: decepticon mothership in a hidden place inside a mountain
Posts: 3,357
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Evans
Unless I am remembering incorrectly, isn't it simply alt/click/drag to select multiple notes, and click to create them already? (Admittedly ctrl/click/drag would be more the windows convention for multiples).
You're right, mea culpa : [alt/drag] works really fine. And it is simple & efficient.
I don't know why i used such a chinese torture combination to move multiple events (maybe that to move clips it is the only way ?) ?!?!
sinkmusic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2006, 09:51 AM   #32
sinkmusic
Human being with feelings
 
sinkmusic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: decepticon mothership in a hidden place inside a mountain
Posts: 3,357
Default one suggestion

Here is a quick wrap of how could (in my very own idea) look Reaper's midi editor :
http://www.stashbox.org/uploads/1149...ditor-sugg.jpg

Last edited by sinkmusic; 06-10-2006 at 05:46 PM.
sinkmusic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2006, 01:55 PM   #33
sinkmusic
Human being with feelings
 
sinkmusic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: decepticon mothership in a hidden place inside a mountain
Posts: 3,357
Default

I also had another idea, dedicated to the poorest of us without any external controller : They have to be able to create midi clips from scratch, without creating the clip by recording a midi sequence from an external hardware device.

So i would go for requiring a "new" icon in the midi editor. As simple as that. Once the new clip is created (it will be put in the currently selected track where the marker is), you just have to create the notes, define a lenght, and here you go !
(So, we have to have access to the midi editor without haveing any particular clip to edit. This might be done using the "menu").

Here is a quick preview of what's in my mind right now :
http://www.stashbox.org/uploads/1149...di-editor2.png


Last edited by sinkmusic; 06-10-2006 at 05:47 PM.
sinkmusic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2006, 04:26 PM   #34
Jason Brian Merrill
Human being with feelings
 
Jason Brian Merrill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Northeastern PA, USA
Posts: 20,850
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sinkmusic
I also had another idea, dedicated to the poorest of us without any external controller : They have to be able to create midi clips from scratch, without creating the clip by recording a midi sequence from an external hardware device.

So i would go for requiring a "new" icon in the midi editor. As simple as that. Once the new clip is created (it will be put in the currently selected track where the marker is), you just have to create the notes, define a lenght, and here you go !
(So, we have to have access to the midi editor without haveing any particular clip to edit. This might be done using the "menu").

Here is a quick preview of what's in my mind right now :
http://www.stashbox.org/uploads/1149...di-editor2.png
that actually looks pretty good, function wise
__________________
Beliefs do not require respect. People do.
Jason Brian Merrill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2006, 04:38 PM   #35
sinkmusic
Human being with feelings
 
sinkmusic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: decepticon mothership in a hidden place inside a mountain
Posts: 3,357
Default

Thank you.
The theme is my custom "Whitey" one, but the idea is that the midi editor would conform to the defined user's theme (for the colors, the arrows..).
I also made the grid less green, and more bright. I find it much better now, i can watch it more than 2 minutes without sunglasses !
sinkmusic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2006, 12:22 AM   #36
EnzymeX
Human being with feelings
 
EnzymeX's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 453
Default

I want to thank sinkmusic for taking the time to consolidate many of his (/our) midi requests - I'm really glad to see this thread is a sticky! The mock up of the MIDI editor is great!

I don't think any other program has more potential than Reaper to marry MIDI, Audio, Editing, and Pre-Mastering capabilities into one tool. The MIDI looping implementation will be the biggest challenge - the latest generation of MIDI loop hosts are really intuitive.

As PhilR suggested, Drum Mapping is a crucial feature for MIDI loopers, especially since there is no input quantization in Reaper at present. Very few musicians have the ability to key in rock solid drumbeats from a MIDI keyboard in real time. So, here are two more suggestions:

#1: It would be great to have a "Drum Grid" view in the MIDI editor to accomodate creation of beats (replacing keyboard notes graphic with drum map (showing only bass drum, snare, and so forth). This implies the need for some user tool to define a drum map.

#2: Assuming Drum Grid view is implemented per #1, Right click on a "drum" to add series of notes every two, four, or eight beats (like FL Studio offers in their step sequencer).
EnzymeX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2006, 05:46 AM   #37
alex zonder
Human being with feelings
 
alex zonder's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,606
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EnzymeX
#1: It would be great to have a "Drum Grid" view in the MIDI editor to accomodate creation of beats (replacing keyboard notes graphic with drum map (showing only bass drum, snare, and so forth). This implies the need for some user tool to define a drum map.

#2: Assuming Drum Grid view is implemented per #1, Right click on a "drum" to add series of notes every two, four, or eight beats (like FL Studio offers in their step sequencer).
I fail to understand why, while there are so many good (and often free) midi & audio tools available for everyone on the Internet, people still prefer to have as many of these tools as possible at hand in one and the same application. I mean, why should REAPER have a drum grid view? It's not a beat box.
Why not use a free program like DrumFlow for instance?
http://tnikolai.nm.ru/df-features.html
Connect it to REAPER via midiyoke and you're done. You could even use it as a midi source for other VSTi's:
http://tnikolai.nm.ru/df-loopback.html

Just to mention one. There are so many other drumtools around for those who don't play drums on the real thing or on a keyboard....

INMHO REAPER is the sort of program that could be losing workability by gaining some sort of "all round functionality". In my worst scenario REAPER would finally become a new REASON... a new reason to look around for program that dares to stay basic...

Maybe I'm just oldfashioned... many people nowadays do their shopping in warehouses where they sell EVERYTHING, most of the time a lot of junk. I prefer small shops run by people who are dedicated to the products they sell.
alex zonder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2006, 06:05 AM   #38
Art Evans
Mortal
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 6,656
Default

I'll drink to that in general.
Art Evans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2006, 06:10 AM   #39
Jason Brian Merrill
Human being with feelings
 
Jason Brian Merrill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Northeastern PA, USA
Posts: 20,850
Default

I dont agree..... why would you want several different programs to do things that NEED to be in one program?

Do you realize how uninspiring it is to have to sequence your entire drum part in one sequencer, then export the files into another, only to realize you need to change a couple of midi notes, so you have to go back to the other sequencer and do that, export again and reimport back...

the cycle goes on and on and it kills creativity...

but yeah, i think a drum grid is a bit too far.
also a step sequencer??? use FL as a vsti if you want to use its step sequencer (when reaper fully supports it)

--- but hey if he could put it in there at some point , COOL!

I dont think REAPER should be bloated -- but it can support ALL of the nessecary "all around" (read: audio AND midi) features and at the same time follow the current paradigm of being simple on the surface, with transparent but easily accessible features that can be complex when needed.

If you want it to stay basic you could always stay with an earlier version, it works great... i dont however see waht could be getting in the way ???

reaper doesnt ever have to get bloated... even all the features that have been requested can be implemented the "justin" way -- which from what i have seen, blows away ANY other dev.

Even the ones on my idea thread -- even the ones here, can be implemented such so that it wont affect the "basic" users...
__________________
Beliefs do not require respect. People do.
Jason Brian Merrill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2006, 09:19 AM   #40
alex zonder
Human being with feelings
 
alex zonder's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,606
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Brian Merrill
the cycle goes on and on and it kills creativity...
Jason, I suppose I have an opposite perception and experience of creativity. Creativity is a specific way of dealing with obstacles, difficulties, hardly to solve problems... In another thread some time ago we discussed the famous Dr. Who theme and how that was made. I think it was Art who sighed 'those were the days...': a lot of inventiveness, labour and time went into solving problems that now require one mouse click.

But of course, all talk about is workflow the days.
Creativity however might be something else, something quite rare...
alex zonder is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:41 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.