Old 07-15-2013, 09:28 PM   #1
dave007
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Default reaper sends deluge of volume/pan msgs

SUMMARY
-------
reaper sends a continuous stream of volume and pan messages on the channel[s] associated w/given midi track[s] upon deactivation of sync if playback has been attempted. this has the annoying quality of completely locking up the synth that is connected to the computer. shutting down reaper resolves the problem.

TO REPRODUCE
------------
1. record some tracks from an outboard synth, making sure that reaper's external timecode sync [right-click over transport bar 'play' button] is set for playback and recording.
2. right-click the playback button on the transport panel and reset sync on playback only.
3. when you uncheck the 'playback' checkbox, look at the outboard synth. you'll see that at least one channel [and possibly all of them, depending on how you've set your solo's] is being flooded w/a continuous stream of midi pan and volume msgs.
4. click the checkbox again. your synth should quiet back down after a while, depending on how long you waited to re-check the checkbox.
5. repeat steps 3-4 ad lib to re-introduce the problem.

i don't know if this add'l info will be helpful, but i've configured my reaper to NOT return the playback head to where it started [i.e., just stay put] when spacebar is pressed a second time.
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Last edited by dave007; 07-15-2013 at 09:36 PM. Reason: clarification
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Old 07-16-2013, 12:12 AM   #2
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Same thing?

http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=114338
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Old 07-16-2013, 05:44 AM   #3
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Does it perhaps make a difference if you enable / disable "Reset pitch" and "Reset CC" in Preferences > Audio > MIDI Devices > MIDI hardware settings?
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Old 07-16-2013, 12:26 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkStar View Post
well, it's true, i am using the ReaControlMIDI plugin in order to allow me to fine-tune things, so i tried this again with the plugin disabled. still had the same problem.

i then tried to record again, but w/the midi controls actually deleted from the tracks. again, no joy.

i then created a minimal project from scratch, w/only a few tracks, set their inputs to the appropriate midi channels, and tried again. this time, there was no deluge of vol/pan msgs! the only other functional difference between this minimalist project and the one i created a template for is that i've already pre-configured the midi tracks in the template project w/controllers for volume, pan, program change and bank change, and specified that these should be made available to the track as automation envelopes. so it looks like the two problems are at least related, if they aren't the same.

another strange thing i noticed when i used this new 'minimal' project is that, even though i no longer get the deluge of midi msgs when i stop recording, when i continue recording, the song doesn't continue where i'd left off, but at some point farther ahead...

i have to say, this is a HUGE disappointment. this problem, along w/some other midi issues [like the sync issue and a few others, is a show-stopper for me. i really like a lot of things in reaper, and i was really looking forward to making reaper 'my' daw, but midi is core to what i do.

you could argue that i should work around this problem by just adding midi controls to the tracks after i've recorded. unfortunately, my work is 'feast or famine' and when i get a contract, i often have to work to extremely tight deadlines, so i really don't have time to do that. since midi controls in reaper are 'buried' within the track interface and plugins, it is so cumbersome to set up a set of midi tracks properly in reaper that the only reasonable way to get it done quickly is via templates.
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Old 07-16-2013, 12:27 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Banned View Post
Does it perhaps make a difference if you enable / disable "Reset pitch" and "Reset CC" in Preferences > Audio > MIDI Devices > MIDI hardware settings?
no, it occurs whether or not i've checked or unchecked the reset pitch/cc boxes in preferences. i think darkstar hit this one. thanks for the input though!
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Old 07-22-2013, 01:18 PM   #6
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Default [update]

while playing w/reaper this weekend, i found an option in 'preferences=>playback1' called 'run fx when stopped' and made sure this wasn't checked. this did not solve the problem. in fact, unchecking the box appears to cause reaper to send the deluge immediately upon starting, rather than waiting until playback is stopped.
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Old 10-01-2013, 03:09 AM   #7
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Default Very easy to reproduce

Hi, this thread seems to have gone to sleep - does anyone know if anything was resolved with the flood of volume/pan messages to MIDI devices?

I'm trying to evaluate Reaper primarily from a MIDI sequencer perspective and I have encountered this problem as well ... it essentially rules Reaper out for me as it makes the synths unusable.

It is VERY easy to reproduce here on Windows 7 x64 SP1.

1. Start with a new project
2. Add a track
3. Set the MIDI hardware output port
4. Link MIDI track controls to a specific MIDI channel
5. Insert a MIDI item onto the track.

Immediately, Reaper sends a flood of Volume/Pan controller messages. Curiously, if you then switch to another app, Reaper sends out the full set of "All Notes Off" and "Reset Cntrl" messages, as it if thinks it's ended a sequence. Switch back to Reaper and the flood starts up again.

If this is the wrong place to post this, please accept my apologies and point me in the right direction. Reaper fits my needs in so many ways - and that is the only reason I'm prepared to give this a little time to try to resolve rather than chucking it on the "NO" pile with so many others.
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Old 10-01-2013, 03:20 AM   #8
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Yep, that's what Reaper does. It's very annoying, and no, unfortunately it wasn't fixed yet.
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Old 10-01-2013, 03:46 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Yep, that's what Reaper does. It's very annoying, and no, unfortunately it wasn't fixed yet.
I guess the question is then ... is this a "feature", working as designed (in which case I'll move on) or is it a bug that needs to be fixed? I've scrolled through 10 pages of open bugs at http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?...suestatusid=-1 looking for some reference to it but didn't spot anything that looked relevant.

I'm happy to report it (unless someone knows a bug report already exists and I missed it?) but I'd appreciate other thoughts too. For me, if this is how it is supposed to work, this would be a bigger compromise than I would need to make in other areas using alternative products
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Old 10-01-2013, 04:27 AM   #10
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I don't think it's intended to work like that. But I also don't remember getting any feedback from the devs about if this was intended behaviour or not. All I know is that it's annoying and not nice for Reaper to do what it does there.

Fingers crossed it will be fixed in due time. But I can't tell you when.


BTW, here's a related tracker issue: http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=4501
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Old 10-01-2013, 06:51 AM   #11
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OK, thanks. I'll raise it in it's own right and keep an eye on it. For now, I'll park Reaper as it's unusable for me like this.

I'm not a professional - just a guy that likes playing with synths in his spare time. I don't have many requirements but I'm happy to pay for something that meets my needs. As it stands, that's not Reaper right now
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Old 10-01-2013, 06:53 AM   #12
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Does this have anything to do with why when my keyboard player moves the mod wheel and we stop and start recording the mod wheel position is reset ?
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Old 10-01-2013, 06:57 AM   #13
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Yeah.
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Old 10-01-2013, 07:06 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coachz View Post
Does this have anything to do with why when my keyboard player moves the mod wheel and we stop and start recording the mod wheel position is reset ?
Hah. See that you could do with a tiny bit of MIDI love now and then?
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Old 10-01-2013, 08:37 AM   #15
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that's all the love i want. leave my keyboard alone and don't send spurios crap to it.
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Old 10-01-2013, 08:37 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grims68 View Post
Hi, this thread seems to have gone to sleep - does anyone know if anything was resolved with the flood of volume/pan messages to MIDI devices?

I'm trying to evaluate Reaper primarily from a MIDI sequencer perspective and I have encountered this problem as well ... it essentially rules Reaper out for me as it makes the synths unusable.

It is VERY easy to reproduce here on Windows 7 x64 SP1.

1. Start with a new project
2. Add a track
3. Set the MIDI hardware output port
4. Link MIDI track controls to a specific MIDI channel
5. Insert a MIDI item onto the track.

Immediately, Reaper sends a flood of Volume/Pan controller messages. Curiously, if you then switch to another app, Reaper sends out the full set of "All Notes Off" and "Reset Cntrl" messages, as it if thinks it's ended a sequence. Switch back to Reaper and the flood starts up again.

If this is the wrong place to post this, please accept my apologies and point me in the right direction. Reaper fits my needs in so many ways - and that is the only reason I'm prepared to give this a little time to try to resolve rather than chucking it on the "NO" pile with so many others.
The volume/pan event flood happens also when routing midi to another track. No need to use MIDI hardware output.
And there is no need to Link MIDI track controls.


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Old 10-01-2013, 10:23 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jnif View Post
The volume/pan event flood happens also when routing midi to another track. No need to use MIDI hardware output.
i think this happens any time there is some sort of control going ; for example, a track envelope to control midi volume, or if the 'reamidi' plugin is on the track.

i'm disappointed to see this wasn't fixed in this last release -- it is crippling. otoh, it was nice to see that the guys in the dev group have done some work on reaper's midi in the last release. i will keep watching this board and try reaper again when all of the issues are ironed out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jnif View Post
And there is no need to Link MIDI track controls.
well, for those of us who work a lot in midi, the fact that there's no set of controls on the track header is very disappointing. why should we use a product that buries the controls we need most in a plugin [reamidi] 3 levels deep? for composers who do use midi, having these basic tools ready and available is a must, and i think that's what the designers of reaper have tried to do in a basic way for this approach. so we actually do need to link these controls ; without it, it's just too cumbersome to get to them.
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Old 10-01-2013, 10:33 AM   #18
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jnif wanted to say that there's no need to link the controls to reproduce the bug.
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Old 10-01-2013, 10:44 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dave007 View Post
i think this happens any time there is some sort of control going ; for example, a track envelope to control midi volume, or if the 'reamidi' plugin is on the track.
In my example case the flooding seems to happen when send controls are linked to MIDI



Quote:
Originally Posted by dave007 View Post
well, for those of us who work a lot in midi, the fact that there's no set of controls on the track header is very disappointing. why should we use a product that buries the controls we need most in a plugin [reamidi] 3 levels deep? for composers who do use midi, having these basic tools ready and available is a must, and i think that's what the designers of reaper have tried to do in a basic way for this approach. so we actually do need to link these controls ; without it, it's just too cumbersome to get to them.
Sorry, I was not clear.
I just mean, to reproduce this bug there is no need to link track controls to MIDI.

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Old 10-01-2013, 11:08 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jnif View Post
Sorry, I was not clear.
I just mean, to reproduce this bug there is no need to link track controls to MIDI.
ah ! oops... sorry, i did not understand. thanks for the clarification !
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Old 10-07-2013, 08:56 AM   #21
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Default Fixed ...

Whilst I appreciate that it may not solve all the problems alluded to here (or that I fully understand their impact for other people tbh) ... I can say that, on the face of it at least, the v4.53 update has fixed the utterly debilitating issue that I was experiencing.

Nice turnaround from my perspective ... so with that in mind I can have another go at a proper look at Reaper.

Thanks for the input
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