Old 10-15-2013, 10:14 AM   #1
jnif
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Default Area move/copy. Does it work?

Is this supposed to work in Reaper v4.54?
Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
If you want to move or copy some media items, while preserving empty space on either side of the set of items, you can enable “Options/Trim content behind media items while editing”, and use the mouse modifier “Move (or copy) item and time selection.” Moving or copying an item within the time selection will then cause the entire time selection to move along with the item, and when the mouse is released, any existing items will be trimmed behind the moved time selection (on tracks with moved items).
I can't make it work like that.

I can copy/move selected area of selected items and the time selection will move along. But the empty areas will not trim the existing items in the location where I drop the moved/copied items.
Here is an example:


Am I doing something wrong?

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Old 10-15-2013, 11:05 AM   #2
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That would make two of us then, but I seem to get a bit different behavior. Here when copying and moving the items, time selection won't follow and the moved items will crossfade into later items. When just moving the selected items, time selection will follow and the later items will trim (disappear totally).

This with Options: Toggle trim behind items when editing set on.

Trim option off, the only difference is that the moved items will crossfade to later items in both cases. Time selection will follow with move only, not with copy & move.
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Old 10-15-2013, 12:29 PM   #3
jnif
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Here is an example of an edit I'm trying to do:


I think the behavior Schwa described in the quoted post is the same as shown in above Pro Tools video. But I can't make it work in Reaper v4.54.
Is it a bug?
Has it ever worked like Schwa described it?

EDIT:
I think the behavior shown in my first video in post #1 is also useful.
But it would be nice to have an option to move/copy also the empty areas.
I thought the normal move/copy, where time selection does not follow, would be used in edits where empty areas are not moved/copied. And the other move/copy mouse modifiers where time selection follows would always move/copy also the empty areas.

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Last edited by jnif; 10-15-2013 at 12:53 PM.
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Old 10-15-2013, 12:53 PM   #4
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Can't get to my older test versions right now. But that kind of move is not something I would usually do, so I don't really know if it has worked like that.

I did just test this with a fresh v4.30 install and the results were interesting. Time selection will still move only when I'm moving the items, not when copying & moving. But now the trim behind option works like I thought it was supposed to work...The later items are trimmed only to the end of the moved item (or time selection), not deleted totally.

This fresh install with regular mouse modifiers too, my usual setup has them tweaked. If those are hosed, I might have to rebuild my version at some point, gak.

---

edit: Ok, from the V4 area selection topic
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=69732

the following picture shows exactly how it behaves here, when moving items with Trim behind enabled



But not in my v4.54 install with changed mouse modifiers. Later check what else is going on...

Last edited by xpander; 10-15-2013 at 01:20 PM.
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Old 10-15-2013, 11:06 PM   #5
jnif
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Here is another example with automation:

This is clearly not good.
All automation within time selection should be copied, not only automation within items.

Here is an example how it should work:


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Old 10-16-2013, 07:52 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jnif View Post
Here is another example with automation:

This is clearly not good.
All automation within time selection should be copied, not only automation within items.
That's looks awfully familiar to what happens in the ME jnif, with CC events.
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Old 10-16-2013, 09:35 AM   #7
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It works for me in 4.54...but there's a pretty annoying bug to be aware of. If I draw my time selection starting from the left it behaves correctly as described in Schwa's post:


On the other hand if I draw my time selection starting from the right, or create a time selection by marking in and out points instead of dragging, I get the same buggy behavior that Jnif reported:
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Old 10-16-2013, 10:36 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinGShore View Post
It works for me in 4.54...but there's a pretty annoying bug to be aware of. If I draw my time selection starting from the left it behaves correctly as described in Schwa's post:


On the other hand if I draw my time selection starting from the right, or create a time selection by marking in and out points instead of dragging, I get the same buggy behavior that Jnif reported:
Nice find!
I can reproduce that.
Time selection from left to right works as expected. Time selection from righ to left is buggy. Or is it intentionally different? Probably not. I think it is a bug.

Somehow I have developed a habit to draw item and time selection marquees from right to left. And I could not understand how other users were able to make those area move/copy operations work. Now I know. Thanks!

Automation envelopes still don't move/copy properly within time selection, even when selecting from left to right.

jnif

Last edited by jnif; 10-16-2013 at 10:43 AM.
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Old 10-16-2013, 10:58 AM   #9
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Yeah, it drove me bonkers for a while til I realized what was going on. I couldn't understand why it would work sometimes, but not others. I definitely think it's a bug. I can't really think of any reason why this behavior would be intentional.

Another good thing to know is that you can do the same sort of operation with a copy/paste instead of dragging. You just have to use the action "insert time on tracks and paste items" instead of the normal paste action.

I agree that the automation envelope behavior with this stuff is not great. I guess it's a result of Reaper's paradigm of not being able to have both an item and an envelope selection in focus at the same time.
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Old 10-16-2013, 01:03 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinGShore View Post
...
On the other hand if I draw my time selection starting from the right, or create a time selection by marking in and out points instead of dragging, I get the same buggy behavior that Jnif reported:
Ha, you're right. I usually draw from left to right, didn't notice this. Now that I checked, if I use shift + left arrow (Time selection: Move cursor left, creating time selection) or shift + click on the ruler left of cursor (Extend loop points), it still works to the left also. However, in the latter case if there's already a time selection which has been dragged (drawn) to left, it won't work.
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Old 10-16-2013, 05:27 PM   #11
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We do have 613 votes for the request that is supposed to fix this.

However, if the request does not cover something you think it should, I would certainly wish to know about it and integrate that in to the request. Perhaps it's the detail that finally pushes the developers in to implementing it.
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Old 10-17-2013, 05:23 AM   #12
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Great find on the time selection direction! That is a bizarre bug, we'll fix it right away.

jnif, does the automation move the way you expect if you enable Options/Envelope points/Point selection follows time selection?
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Old 10-17-2013, 09:12 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
jnif, does the automation move the way you expect if you enable Options/Envelope points/Point selection follows time selection?
No. I still can't move/copy all automation within time selection at the same time with items. It moves/copies only automation within items.
And even when trying to move/copy only automation it works only on single lane at a time. It should work on multiple lanes and multiple tracks at the same time.

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Old 10-17-2013, 10:36 AM   #14
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Old Protools solves this in a few ways, which could be a starting point or simply an inspiration for a better approach.

First, you can flip open as many envelope lanes as you like and select across them, area selection-style.

Second, Protools has commands to cut/copy/paste all automation in an area selection, so you can do all this without cut/copy/pasting items.

Third ... I'll have to check something quickly .
-edit-
Protools copies all automation and items with the area selection in the waveform view of the track. So it pretty much does everything being asked for, except of course for multiple non-continous selections as requested in the FR.
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Last edited by airon; 10-17-2013 at 10:46 AM.
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