Old 11-08-2013, 12:41 AM   #1
plamuk
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Default used up all 16 or REAPER's ctrl channels--what now?

EDIT: please read the issue and consider voting for a solution here: http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=1237

howdy. got a problem here and would appreciate any tips

REAPER doesn't distinguish between input messages from control-enabled MIDI devices. as such, it only has 16 channels for control messages.

16 is not very many. my live set project contains 16 consolidated projects and a lot of midi routing. each song arms devices to a midi channel and MIDItoReacontrolpath pushes the control messages so that only instruments in the current song endure parameter changes. this essentially limits me to 16 songs (or really 15, since channel 16 is dedicated to control messages)

i've used them all up. it would be great if REAPER could distinguish control messages from different inputs. failing that, what are my options?

as far as i can tell, i can't use the same channels for multiple songs because control messages assigned to song A would also move params in the muted song B.

any comments would be appreciated

Last edited by plamuk; 11-08-2013 at 12:06 PM.
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Old 11-08-2013, 01:05 AM   #2
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might be able to use reascript to write actions that would work better for your needs
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Old 11-08-2013, 04:51 AM   #3
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Not sure I understand the setup. Can you elaborate?
I assume you have 16 project tabs open in your session and multiple MIDI input devices hanging on separate MIDI input ports?

How exactly are you setting up the MIDItoReacontrolpath instances?

Concerning this part:
Quote:
Originally Posted by nym View Post
as far as i can tell, i can't use the same channels for multiple songs because control messages assigned to song A would also move params in the muted song B
With or without using MIDItoReacontrolpath, if I learn the same MIDI CC to a plugin parameter in multiple project tabs, only the parameter in the active project tab will listen to the CC. There might be a preference setting or option for this I am not aware of.



I also tried the following:
- I have two MIDI input ports, 1 and 2, both set to "enabled" (not control) each has a MIDI controller device plugged to it
- I have two project tabs, a) and b), each containing a track with ReaEQ
- In both projects I have another track with MIDItoReacontrolpath.
- In project a) theMIDItoReacontrolpath track is set to input MIDI port 1 (all channels), record armed and monitor enabled.
- In project b) theMIDItoReacontrolpath track is set to input MIDI port 2 (all channels), record armed and monitor enabled.

- Now, if I learn a plugin parameter (EQ gain 1) to CC1 in both projects. Project a) will only receive messages from port 1 and project b) will only receive messages on port 2 on the control path


Does this help?


(Even if it happens to help, it would be good if Reaper's control path could distinguish between MIDI ports nevertheless. I believe there is a feature request in the tracker for this I voted for years ago)
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Old 11-08-2013, 07:41 AM   #4
plamuk
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hey gwok - reascript may be in my future, but i'd prefer to not take on an additional learning curve.

hey gofer - thanks for your post. this is 1 mega project, not project tabs. project tabs will not work in my usage because you cannot seamlessly stitch them together so that the songs transition smoothly.

my project is >500 tracks, with subfolders per project. action markers mute and unmute the projects as the megaproject plays. these action markers also arm and disarm tracks w/ input from my midi controllers/bidule, each of which has a channelizer and a miditoreacontrolpath instance.

therefor, song 1 is ch 1, song 2 is ch 2, etc.
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Old 11-08-2013, 08:20 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nym View Post
my project is >500 tracks, with subfolders per project. action markers mute and unmute the projects as the megaproject plays. these action markers also arm and disarm tracks w/ input from my midi controllers/bidule, each of which has a channelizer and a miditoreacontrolpath instance
:raisedeyebrows:
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Old 11-08-2013, 10:03 AM   #6
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heh. your surprise pales compared to mine when i established that this was the best way to perform a live electronic set in reaper...i tried a number of ways...rendering busses down and throwing them together, using project tabs, using midi-controlled slices in hundreds of reasamplomatic instances...

muting unused songs does away with the resource consumption from their FX...i froze most VSTis and power hungry vsts, leaving only the ones i'll play live (and TONS of reaper plugs, which i tend to reach for first). there's always 1 "system" folder which is running, handling some midi routing, my vocalist's mic input, and audio-to-cc to drive the 4 band vu meter on my quneo

even with this monster project, i still get very low CPU consumption and no popping/crackling.

the project is navigated by a launchpad that i reprogrammed in bidule. in the live mode, the first 16 pads select which song is viewed/playing.
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Old 11-08-2013, 11:13 AM   #7
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Add :jawhitsfloor: while the eyebrows keep scratching the roof. Makes for a pretty long face.

That sounds impressive. Alas, it means I think there is no immediate solution to your problem. Maybe via OSC instead of MIDI? I am totally noob when it comes to that.


Here is the link to the feature request for "Make Reaper's control path distinguish between MIDI input ports":
http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=1237
It's your own request, so I'm afraid you can't vote for it nym. The poor thing is 4 years old and has only 8 votes (one of them being mine, so I can't add a vote either ).

So, everybody reading this, listen up: There's a good but starving request that needs some serious loving from y'all. Rock it gently



Maybe, for promotional effect, add the FR tracker link to your OP post and also add a link to this discussion thread (or a new one you might create in the FR forum) in your Tracker request post.
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Old 11-08-2013, 12:02 PM   #8
plamuk
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oof x100. i'm really stuck. ideally i'll have 18 songs on my set, but i have no idea what to do for ctrl messages for the last 3 (since ch 16 is dedicated to reaper-only pgm ctrl messages ... nothing like tweaking a cc only to suddenly mute the shit out of tracks unexpectedly ...)

i don't have much faith in the tracking system for FRs but i'll put it in there...

it may be the case that i need to use distinct project tabs, each with 15 "slots" for my songs. however, this is not a nice solution because i'm often changing stuff in the "system" folder, and these changes would need to be reflected in multiple projects.

ahhh, for modular project tabs that could talk to one another as per my sig.....

i hate feeling like i'm bumping my head against REAPER's ceiling, because for so long it seemed to high.
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Old 11-08-2013, 12:05 PM   #9
plamuk
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here's another question that might help me:

track 1 fx chain:
channelizer set to ch 1
miditoreacontrolpath
vsti synth with cutoff learned to cc74

muted track 2 fx chain:
reaEQ with a band learned to cc74

my problem is as follows: even though track 2 is muted, reaEQ's learned band still moves as i tweak cc74 in track 1. ideally, it would not move at all, and only move when the track is active and unmuted.

if i could figure out how to prevent ctrlpath messages from effecting muted tracks, i'd be able to use 1 channel for the entire song, freeing up the other 14 and getting myself out of a serious jam.

thoughts?
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Old 11-08-2013, 02:01 PM   #10
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Spontaneous idea (grabbing at straws), if OSC isn't a solution:

Couldn't you use the "only when track is selected" option in the parameter learn dialogs and always have tracks which belong to the song that is currently playing selected (and all others unselected)?
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Old 11-08-2013, 02:17 PM   #11
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Actually I think i understand what you're doing.

I've come to the point where I also wanted to have separate midi device actions in Reaper.

As in this instance:
Midi device 1 ch 1 CC 16 is assigned to one thing
Midi device 2 ch 1 CC 16 is assigned to another thing



What my suggestion for this is to have the ability for the action CC number be global or midi device specific

and this which could be tons of help with midi devices. Shift and Ctrl and Alt being used with midi CCs. As in

ch 1 CC 16 is scrub
shift+ch 1 CC16 is fine scrub


please vote for the FR

http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=4936

EDIT: just voted for your FR and you basically said what I was suggesting. +13546549879451 for this!
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Old 11-08-2013, 05:23 PM   #12
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one concern is that device specific midi ctrlpath messages wouldn't undo the need for miditoreacontrolpath.

often times you want to apply midi fx to tweak your midi signals (set upper and lower limits on a cc, for instance) but REAPER's native learning doesn't allow for that.

so what you do is put the midi fx (js or vst) in the chain and then put a miditoreacontrolpath after. this way only the midi ctrl you want gets used.

really it may be best to allow any midi being received by the track to control parameters, rather than fussing with a distinct ctrlpath.

the ctrlpath is ideal for REAPER program-specific things, but it is a real kludge sometimes for VSTis.
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Old 11-09-2013, 12:18 AM   #13
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Yes, the control path needs to differentiate between controllers. FLStudio recently sorted this problem out so hopefully Reaper won't be too far behind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nym View Post
the project is navigated by a launchpad that i reprogrammed in bidule. in the live mode, the first 16 pads select which song is viewed/playing.
That's good news, because if you are using Bidule anyway you can set up OSC control there....
http://www.plogue.com/bidule/help/ch11s03.html

That way, you can have the real MIDI ouputs from your controllers going to Bidule with some bidules sending OSC and doing your launchpad stuff, then output the remaining MIDI via loopback ports into Reaper.
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Old 11-09-2013, 12:33 AM   #14
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Alternatively, I made this a couple of years back....

https://stash.reaper.fm/v/4954/CC%23%...spose%20Filter
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