Resizing MIDI items shifts notes positions (FIXED)

[nofish]

Tracker:
http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=5293

---

Could someone tell me if this is a bug or what's going on here ?

As can be seen in the capture initial situation is a note starting exactly on the bar, when I resize the MIDI item the note seems to shift to the right. This is admittedly very high zoom level but I'd think this still shouldn't be ?
Especially as it seems the note shifts more and more to the right the more I enlarge the item to the left.



Project I used for testing is attached (fresh portable 4.71 install)
double-click the MIDI item to bring up the ME

[nofish]

any comments ?

[Tod]

Originally Posted by nofish

any comments ?

Yep, confirmed. Reaper 4.7.

[nofish]

Oh wow, I'd consider this a critical bug then as it could mess around with projects.

I wait a bit if a dev chimes in here then it goes to the tracker.

Thanks for checking and confirming Tod.

[Tod]

Originally Posted by nofish

Oh wow, I'd consider this a critical bug then as it could mess around with projects.

I wait a bit if a dev chimes in here then it goes to the tracker.

Thanks for checking and confirming Tod.

I also added another track and added a midi item and then put a note in it only I set the note a little further in on the item. It also moved the note just like your track.

[mete0r]

I'm pretty sure I have had this issue without knowing what it was exactly. It was pretty annoying.

[jnif]

Looks like the same bug reported here:
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=129223

Originally Posted by jnif

Notes slide to wrong position when dragging left edge of MIDI item

jnif

[nofish]

Originally Posted by jnif

Looks like the same bug reported here:
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=129223
jnif

Yep, looks like the same, thanks.

[Soli Deo Gloria]

Hmmm, I can only replicate it if "Loop source" is enabled in the item. Since I don´t have it by default, in my first attempts I couldn´t reproduce it.

Will it have something to do with that setting?

[nofish]

Originally Posted by Soli Deo Gloria

Hmmm, I can only replicate it if "Loop source" is enabled in the item. Since I don´t have it by default, in my first attempts I couldn´t reproduce it.

Will it have something to do with that setting?

Have you tried with the test project I attached in the first post ?
"Loop source" isn't enabled there and Tod could reproduce.

If you can't reproduce with the test project, I don't know on which other factors this could depend.

[Soli Deo Gloria]

Well, now I see I can reproduce it with your project, indeed. But if I start from scratch it doesn´t happen, as I said above. Any project setting maybe? It´s really strange... It seems a case for the tracker, isn´t it?

[nofish]

Thanks for checking.

Yes, I think so too.
Will put it in the tracker now and update the first post with the link to it.

[Dstruct]

I can reproduce it with your project but I'm unable to reproduce it with a new project and item ...

[jnif]

I can reproduce this bug in Reaper v4.71 portable install with all default settings.

Steps to reproduce:
1. Insert new MIDI item.
2. Draw some notes to the item.
3. Disable "Loop source" in the item properties.
4. Zoom in very close to item start.
5. Disable Snap.
6. Drag item start (resize item) to left.

jnif

[Soli Deo Gloria]

Originally Posted by jnif

I can reproduce this bug in Reaper v4.71 portable install with all default settings.

Steps to reproduce:
1. Insert new MIDI item.
2. Draw some notes to the item.
3. Disable "Loop source" in the item properties.
4. Zoom in very close to item start.
5. Disable Snap.
6. Drag item start (resize item) to left.

jnif

How weird...I do exactly that and I can´t reproduce it. If the devs take a look at Nofish´s project, maybe they can shed some light here...

[Dstruct]

Originally Posted by jnif

I can reproduce this bug in Reaper v4.71 portable install with all default settings.

Steps to reproduce:
1. Insert new MIDI item.
2. Draw some notes to the item.
3. Disable "Loop source" in the item properties.
4. Zoom in very close to item start.
5. Disable Snap.
6. Drag item start (resize item) to left.

jnif

Ok, reproduced.


FIXED (5.15pre7)

[xpander]

Originally Posted by jnif

Steps to reproduce:
1. Insert new MIDI item.
2. Draw some notes to the item.
3. Disable "Loop source" in the item properties.
4. Zoom in very close to item start.
5. Disable Snap.
6. Drag item start (resize item) to left.

This does happen with the snap also. Really close zoom levels will make it easier to notice what is or is not happening, but it is not necessary to have really close zoom levels for the events to shift their placement. Meaning, you could zoom out, drag the item edge and zoom in to see the shift. Do it again and notice the different amount of shift. Then again, if there is nothing else to go by but these visual clues (?), are they in every case anything more than just visual glitches?

Ok, testing. I can have the snap on and if I'm zoomed very close, MIDI events seem to have an offset when the item edge has been dragged. Interestingly enough, once I drag the left edge to the start of the project, the events line out to the grid again. Then dragging back, the event offset seems to start again, but once back to where I initially started (snap still on to get to the grid), the events are again back to their places.

Done like this with the snap on, the offset seems to be less than one pulse left or right (less than 1/960 with the default PPQ), so it's still within the set MIDI resolution.

Without snap, it's the same thing dragging to the left; offset events along the way, then aligning with the grid when at the beginning of the project. However, there doesn't seem to be way to bring the edge back to the original point without leaving the events offset. If the snap is engaged before dragging back to the right begins, then it is possible, same as with snap on all the way.


Same thing seems to work also with the example project nofish gave earlier. This apparent slight shift of events at very close zoom levels is not a new phenomenon, at least when it is within the MIDI resolution. But it seems that occasionally, and without snap, the offset can be bigger...haven't had enough time to test variables there.

[heda]

I can confirm this issue. I think it depends on the zoom ?

I created another thread. sorry I didn't see yours first. But anyway this is a nasty bug. I voted in your issue tracker.

[daxliniere]

Oh gosh, this is not good.

This bug plus the bug I get all the time where note lengths are randomly set to tiny (<1% of original?) gives me the heebie-jeebies about MIDI in REAPER, I'm sorry to say.

[maxdis]

Unbelievable.
And the worst thing of all, there are so few people discussing this bug (that could screw entire projects), while theming threads are going on for pages and pages.

[EricM]

I never use looped item source in reaper, had so many sync issues
over the years I simply gave up and do manual copies when loop
is required.

e

[daxliniere]

Originally Posted by maxdis

And the worst thing of all, there are so few people discussing this bug (that could screw entire projects), while theming threads are going on for pages and pages.

Sheeple

[Mogwai]

Can't reproduce on Reaper 5.01. Maybe it's been fixed

Edit:
This one on 5.01 changelog?
- fixed visual jitter when editing unlooped media item edge

Edit 2: NOT FIXED in 5.01

[Dstruct]

Not fixed in 5.01. I still can reproduce it with these steps:

1. Insert new MIDI item.
2. Draw some notes to the item.
3. Disable "Loop source" in the item properties.
4. Zoom in very close to item start.
5. Disable Snap.
6. Drag item start (resize item) to left.


FIXED (5.15pre7)

[heda]

Originally Posted by Mogwai

Can't reproduce on Reaper 5.01. Maybe it's been fixed

Edit:
This one on 5.01 changelog?
- fixed visual jitter when editing unlooped media item edge

I thought so, but I tested it and it still happens.. see here http://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php...2&postcount=18

[Mogwai]

Originally Posted by heda

I thought so, but I tested it and it still happens.. see here http://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php...2&postcount=18

Omg, you're right. Confirmed here too.

It's more than just a visual glitch. The notes are actually moving forward, it can be seen from the midi event list.

[ELP]

It seems really an rounding 100th prob/sample/ms or whatever to ppqn !!

Left rezise only with X/Y Snap enable!
Why ever left rezise MIDI Items without Snap?
Otherwise if you rezise the left edge of items (without x/y snap) and or at higher zoom levels than the Snap size you get wrong Delta Times within the MIDI Item.
Which are really offsets and not only visual.

The DEVS should of course really fix this &
I mean also add an general option
to view and use Measure/Beat/Ticks(1.1.000)
or like other also do Measure/Beat/Sig/Quarter-tick (1.1.1.000) instead ot 100th
for musical timebase events everywhere and not only within the M-Editor as an option.

The thing is that the Delta time of the events within one MIDI Item start at the left edge of the item.
Means you can move/nudge one MIDI item elsewhere at the arrange timeline.
Also inbetween midi ticks means sample/ms or whatever without any problem.
The same with item snap offsets >t=0 no Problem.
You can move any MIDI Item at real accurate timeline positions you ever want.

But resizing the left edge of MIDI Items should always snap at the real midi ticks!!
1/1 | 1/2 | 1/4 | 1/8 | 1/16 |... etc. pp and never ever inbetween.

Frankly, left edge resizing without MIDI Tick snap makes absolutely no sense!!
Because you can move/nudge snap or without snap the item itself elsewhere at the timeline and there is also an SNAP Offset Marker.
So the MIDI item can always be sample/time accurately positioned.

[maxdis]

So any news about this?
I can easily reproduce it in Reaper 5.02, following the Dstruct's steps.

[Dstruct]

Originally Posted by Dstruct

Not fixed in 5.01. I still can reproduce it with these steps:

1. Insert new MIDI item.
2. Draw some notes to the item.
3. Disable "Loop source" in the item properties.
4. Zoom in very close to item start.
5. Disable Snap.
6. Drag item start (resize item) to left.

Still there in 5.15pre3.


FIXED (5.15pre7)

[ELP]

Use the Nudge/set item tool.
position.....trim left or whatever also possible for moving the contents
And these things does n´t happen!

The "rounding errors" seems to be only one problem together with re sizing with the mouse.

[Dstruct]

Originally Posted by ELP

Use the Nudge/set item tool.
position.....trim left or whatever also possible for moving the contents
And these things does n´t happen!

Nope. Happens with the Nudge tool too!

("Nugde left trim by 1 sample" to reproduce)


FIXED (5.15pre7)

[maxdis]

Confirmed in 5.12

[noise_construct]

Bugs that affect the audio content should be treated as critical.

[Justin]

is the position difference greater than or equal to one tick of the midi item?

[heda]

Originally Posted by Justin

is the position difference greater than or equal to one tick of the midi item?

yes, as you can see in my gif example in #18 the position of the note changes from 6.1.00 to 6.1.05 but it can keep growing.
you have to zoom in significantly then resize the item

[Dstruct]

Originally Posted by Justin

is the position difference greater than or equal to one tick of the midi item?

What position difference?

[Dstruct]

Originally Posted by heda

yes, as you can see in my gif example in #18 the position of the note changes from 6.1.00 to 6.1.05 but it can keep growing.
you have to zoom in significantly then resize the item

This.

FIXED (5.15pre7)

[Justin]

ahh I see why, will fix! fix coming in 5.15pre7

[ELP]

After the note shift you see (within the MIDI RAW view) that the first note has now an item offset stays at +xx > 0, no matter if the item begin at 0 or not or you move the note to the beginning of the item again -after shift.


example pic after note shift and moving the note & left edge of the item to pos 2.1.00 again
The event content has now an permanent item offset at +49
1.




30.01.15
EDIT:

Fixed with 5.15 pre7 !!! offset +0
Thank you.