Old 10-28-2014, 11:27 AM   #1
pbattersby
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Default Red Nose - orchestral (using SSO)

The piano part was written by Gustavo Lopez. This is our second collaboration. I used the Sonatina Symphonic Orchestra (except for the timpani sound) and for the first time the MT Power Drumkit which I recently discovered thanks to a post by another Reaper user. I thought I had a good drum sound with SuperDrumFx which I had used for years, but MT Power Drumkit sounds even better to me (No drum grooves from MT Power Drumkit were used. The drum track is what I'd play if I were playing live).

Red Nose

Let me know what you think.

Edit: Replaced MT power Drumkit with DrumCore 3 Free.
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Old 10-28-2014, 12:06 PM   #2
Swamp Ape
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Wow, that's all Sonatina? Very nice and understated. Sounds great.
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Old 10-29-2014, 07:01 AM   #3
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You did well, very understated, yes. But the piano piece was more about playing triads in a certain groove/fashion, the line of chords forming a kind of "theme" or melody... that's not much to build on, imho.
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Old 10-29-2014, 11:45 AM   #4
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Wow, that's all Sonatina?
Yes. All the orchestra stuff except for the timpani, is Sonatina Symphonic Orchestra.

Mattias Westlund did an amazing job when he put this orchestra sound font together.
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Old 10-29-2014, 11:58 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Jorgen View Post
But the piano piece was more about playing triads in a certain groove/fashion, the line of chords forming a kind of "theme" or melody... that's not much to build on, imho.
Jorgen, thanks for commenting but I'm not sure I understand. When you say "that's not much to build on" do you mean:

- the piano part was too simple or too repetitive
- or the piano part doesn't lend itself to easily write accompaniment
- or I missed the essence of the piano part with my orchestration
- or my orchestration is naturally understated because of the piano part
- or do you mean something else entirely?

I appreciate the comment, I just want to make sure I fully understand the point you were making.

Thanks,

Paul
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Old 11-06-2014, 05:49 AM   #6
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Hello Paul, I didn't hear much of a theme or a melody, mostly fluent piano-playing, very driven, but it's not a song... more a display of rhythms and cadences. The focus is on the playing/piano performance, it's technically powerful, but musically weak, imo. You composed this together? Or did your partner deliver a finished track? To me, it sounds like you put your contribution on top of his "riffing" composition, which doesn't leave much room for an orchestra to begin with... again, in my opinion.
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Old 11-08-2014, 05:40 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jorgen View Post
I didn't hear much of a theme or a melody
I'm surprised. I can hear a very clear melody.

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but it's not a song...
I was curious what you meant by "it's not a song", then I looked up the dictionary definition of "song" and you're right. Unless there is singing or the suggestion of singing it's not a song as far as the dictionary is concerned. Interesting.

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You composed this together? Or did your partner deliver a finished track?
He composed and performed the piano part then I came along later to add my stuff. I realize that's not ideal because that does not give the piano player an opportunity to respond to what the orchestra is doing and in some cases that can be limiting.
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Old 11-13-2014, 03:05 AM   #8
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I enjoyed listening to that piece, thank you.

I understand where Jorgen is coming from up to a point, but believe that there is strong melodic material in the piece. There is just too much of it in a short period of time, and while you are taking in one hook, another has come along to displace it. Every call has a response, and it becomes a bit overwhelming. It sounds slighty "studied" rather than emotive. Maybe this is the intention - but if not, I have some suggestions;

1) There are too many instruments playing too many counter parts too quickly. Lighten up on the initial orchestration, bring it in more gradually. Maybe save more of it for when the drums come in, and it will pack a bigger punch at that point.

2) Pace the material better. Instead of having a response to every piano call, have some accompaniment or "space", or move it into little sections of its own to allow the music to breathe.

3) The orchestra sound behind the beat, which bounces me out of the piece. Especially the strings, which have a big "swell" attack on them. This makes them seem out of place with the piano, which has a more direct sound, and is especially noticeable when playing counter melodies or patterns along with the piano.

Hope this helps - Jennifer
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Old 11-14-2014, 03:08 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by endorka View Post
I enjoyed listening to that piece, thank you.
Thank you for listening and commenting.

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Originally Posted by endorka View Post
I [...] believe that there is strong melodic material in the piece. There is just too much of it in a short period of time, and while you are taking in one hook, another has come along to displace it. Every call has a response, and it becomes a bit overwhelming. It sounds slighty "studied" rather than emotive.
If you're referring to the piano part, good to know but I can't comment. The piano part, it's composition and performance came first and has nothing to do with me. I added my stuff much later.

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1) There are too many instruments playing too many counter parts too quickly.
I've recently come to realize the orchestration is a little dense and I should use more orchestra sections in isolation.

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Originally Posted by endorka View Post
2) Pace the material better. Instead of having a response to every piano call, have some accompaniment or "space", or move it into little sections of its own to allow the music to breathe.

3) The orchestra sound behind the beat, which bounces me out of the piece. Especially the strings, which have a big "swell" attack on them. This makes them seem out of place with the piano, which has a more direct sound, and is especially noticeable when playing counter melodies or patterns along with the piano.
All I do is record what I hear in my head and hope it works for most listeners but there will always be room for improvement.

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Hope this helps - Jennifer
You've given me some stuff to think about whether it ultimately gets applied to this piece or another in the future so yes, it helps. Thanks.
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Old 11-14-2014, 06:48 PM   #10
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hi Paul.

very nice composition/playing. beautiful dynamics. you did a superb job of weaving instruments around the piano.

enjoyed this!
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Old 11-15-2014, 09:12 AM   #11
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The piano part, it's composition and performance came first and has nothing to do with me. I added my stuff much later.
Yes, it seemed reasonable. You did good, sounds great in the cans, sounds, production, arranging too... I stand by it's not a song, though, too much riffing, as the "theme", repeated in the outro... it's just "there", not going anywhere...

The piece could work well in a proper context, like film/drama/documentary/soundtrack... not dissing it.
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Old 11-16-2014, 09:11 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mschuster View Post
very nice composition/playing. beautiful dynamics. you did a superb job of weaving instruments around the piano.

enjoyed this!
Thanks!
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Old 11-16-2014, 09:17 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jorgen View Post
Yes, it seemed reasonable. You did good, sounds great in the cans, sounds, production, arranging too...
Thanks. I appreciate that.

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Originally Posted by Jorgen View Post
I stand by it's not a song, though
That's fine. The dictionary definition I looked up agrees with you.

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The piece could work well in a proper context, like film/drama/documentary/soundtrack... not dissing it.
I'd be happy to have this piece used in that context. Thanks.

I should also clarify this statement: "The piano part, it's composition and performance came first and has nothing to do with me. I added my stuff much later."

I just meant that in response to endorka wondering if this was intended to be "studied" vs "emotional", I have no idea since I didn't compose the original piano part, but I very much like the original piano part.
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