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Old 02-01-2015, 01:25 AM   #1
Gates of Horn & Ivory
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Default Media items not retained in project bay unless I open the bay before deleting...?

I have "Automatically retain media items when removed from project" ticked in the options for the project bay, but it doesn't seem to work properly.

1. Start a new project, with the project bay closed
2. Create a blank midi item
3. Select and delete

At this point, if I open the "Media Items" tab in the project bay, the item I deleted will not appear there. The bay will be empty. However, if I perform the same steps, but open the project bay at some point before deleting the media item, the item will be added to the list, and when deleted it will remain in the bay in the "available" state.

I might be wrong, but I don't think this is the intended behaviour.

Issue tracker entry is here.

Last edited by Gates of Horn & Ivory; 02-03-2015 at 12:42 AM.
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Old 02-02-2015, 02:39 PM   #2
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At least at some point that was the default, ie. the project bay would show the currently available items/sources in the project. So if you would have removed the items from the new project before opening the project bay, they would not be available in there either.

The automatic retain works only for the items which are shown in the project bay. As it seems to be right now, you'll have to have the Project Bay open when dropping/inserting new items to the project but before removing them, otherwise the automatic retain doesn't work for them. Once the item has been removed with the automatic retain ON while the project bay is open, the retain status will be shown in the Retain column. Other option is to manually change the retain status for the given item, so the bay doesn't have to be open if/when the item is removed from the project.

---
edit: I noticed that you had already put this into the Issue Tracker also. While it's debatable if this really belongs there, at least there should be a link from there to this or other appropriate discussion about the issue.

Last edited by xpander; 02-02-2015 at 03:28 PM.
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Old 02-03-2015, 01:12 AM   #3
Gates of Horn & Ivory
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Quote:
edit: I noticed that you had already put this into the Issue Tracker also. While it's debatable if this really belongs there, at least there should be a link from there to this or other appropriate discussion about the issue.
Done. The issue and thread now link to each other.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xpander View Post
As it seems to be right now, you'll have to have the Project Bay open when dropping/inserting new items to the project but before removing them, otherwise the automatic retain doesn't work for them..
You've got it slightly wrong, actually. You can open the project bay at any point between creation and deletion, and then close it if you want. The bay doesn't have to be open when adding, or open when deleting, it just has to have been opened at some point while the item existed. I guess what happens is the project bay doesn't really keep up with what's happening in the project unless it's actually open... which seems kinda weird.
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Old 02-03-2015, 08:17 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gates of Horn & Ivory View Post
You can open the project bay at any point between creation and deletion, and then close it if you want. The bay doesn't have to be open when adding, or open when deleting, it just has to have been opened at some point while the item existed.
Well, definitely not what happens here. Project Bay doesn't have to be open when adding new items to the project, but it has to be open when removing items from the project. Otherwise the items will not be available to retain, even if Automatic retain is chosen.

Exceptions;
-Project Bay has already been saved with the current items
-items have been dragged straight into the Project Bay. This will mark them automatically retain-able even when the automatic retain option has not been chosen.
-items have been manually marked as retain-able before removing them from the project

Reaper v4.76/x64, win8.1 here.
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Old 02-03-2015, 09:17 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xpander View Post
Well, definitely not what happens here. Project Bay doesn't have to be open when adding new items to the project, but it has to be open when removing items from the project. Otherwise the items will not be available to retain, even if Automatic retain is chosen.
Wait, really? Wow, that's weird. So if you have automatic retain on, and you create a MIDI item, then open and close the project bay, when you delete that item it isn't retained? It definitely is for me, in that situation (using Reaper 4.76 64 bit, OSX).

I wonder if this is the result of some arcane preferences setting...
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Old 02-03-2015, 09:47 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gates of Horn & Ivory View Post
I wonder if this is the result of some arcane preferences setting...
I think you're onto something. Tested with a fresh install, the Project Bay may indeed be closed when removing the items. The automatic retain option will have them retained, if the PB has been open at some point before removing them. I failed my usual pre-release test routine when checking this at first. Now to hunting what causes it...thanks for a good reminder.

---

edit: Nope, not my old preferences. Instead, it seems that the automatic retain works like I described earlier if the Project Bay is docked!? If I undock it, it works like you said.

edit2: I think I got it. Whenever Project Bay is docked to any location so that it shares the dock with some other window (eg. Mixer), the anomaly I described will happen. Docking only the PB to any location is ok. Example picture below, sharing the dock with mixer. Automatic retain will not work when PB is set up like this, aside from the exceptions I listed earlier.


Last edited by xpander; 02-03-2015 at 11:08 AM.
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Old 02-03-2015, 11:56 AM   #7
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That's some impressive detective work! Thanks a bunch, very interesting to know this stuff. : )

I added a description of the behaviour you discovered in the issue tracker entry btw.
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Old 02-03-2015, 12:52 PM   #8
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Thanks for mentioning that behavior in there too. And you're welcome...it's really just some patience and practise trying out different things in clear enough order. And may well still miss some things in there, haven't even checked the older versions for example.
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Old 10-19-2018, 02:29 PM   #9
Tony Nutella
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Hi from 2018 and v5.96, any changes here? I experience exact same behavior of «automatic retain» and that is extremely uncomfortable and strange.
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