Old 07-17-2006, 07:46 AM   #1
winbe
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Default Estimated price for Reaper 1.0 ?

Hello,

I just received an email from Cakewalk saying that S/H is offered, which will make Sonar 5 Studio at 79 euros. The offer is valid until the end of the month.

I am just wondering if I upgrade or not, because Reaper is rapidly improving its MIDI abilities and might become my main DAW.
My question is, what would be an estimated price for Reaper 1.0 when it is out ?
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Old 07-17-2006, 12:06 PM   #2
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Default ah ah... :)

ah ah... as soon as money is involved...

Quote:
Originally Posted by winbe
Hello,

I just received an email from Cakewalk saying that S/H is offered, which will make Sonar 5 Studio at 79 euros. The offer is valid until the end of the month.

I am just wondering if I upgrade or not, because Reaper is rapidly improving its MIDI abilities and might become my main DAW.
My question is, what would be an estimated price for Reaper 1.0 when it is out ?
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Old 07-17-2006, 12:20 PM   #3
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Should be something like $40 for noncommercial use and ~$200 for commercial use. Purchasing 1.0 will give you a license for all 1.x releases..

-Justin
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Old 07-17-2006, 12:35 PM   #4
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Default Commercial use = ?

Hello Justin,

I always have a problem with this "commercial use"...
Music is a hobby for me, but I used to have some success on mp3.com back in 2000... (1 million downloads). Although I never considered I was doing music "commercially", I earned some money with it, at that time.

Was it a "commercial use" ?
Anyway the pricing sounds ok to me !

So do you think I should skip Sonar 5 upgrade, and directly buy Reaper 1.0 ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin
Should be something like $40 for noncommercial use and ~$200 for commercial use. Purchasing 1.0 will give you a license for all 1.x releases..

-Justin
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Old 07-17-2006, 12:54 PM   #5
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Depending upon how you define "commercial use" I may buy Reaper for $40. I like it better than Kristal right now, and it is actively being developed and supports MIDI...which is something I might get into eventually if I keep doing this.

Lyquist

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Old 07-17-2006, 02:27 PM   #6
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as far as what constitutes commercial use, it's essentially if you are a) making money directly from what you're doing, or b) using it in a workplace.

We will let you upgrade from the non-commercial license to a commercial license for the difference in price, as well. so if you go purchase the non-commercial version ,make some stuff, then end up making money on it, you can pay $160 or whatnot and be legit.

The important thing about all of this, too, is that we won't take any technological steps to enforce this-- it will be up to you to do the right thing. If you don't feel you're doing something commercially, then you're probably not, etc.

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Old 07-17-2006, 02:43 PM   #7
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Quote:
The important thing about all of this, too, is that we won't take any technological steps to enforce this-- it will be up to you to do the right thing.
No technological steps - but do the wrong thing and Justin will send round two of his boys.

There should be badges. "I paid for Reaper - did you??" or the like. We could have conventions. Justin could run for high office. Fair pricing could sweep the nation.

Joking aside, it does sound like a very resaonable pricing scheme.
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Old 07-17-2006, 03:04 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin
as far as what constitutes commercial use, it's essentially if you are a) making money directly from what you're doing, or b) using it in a workplace.

We will let you upgrade from the non-commercial license to a commercial license for the difference in price, as well. so if you go purchase the non-commercial version ,make some stuff, then end up making money on it, you can pay $160 or whatnot and be legit.

The important thing about all of this, too, is that we won't take any technological steps to enforce this-- it will be up to you to do the right thing. If you don't feel you're doing something commercially, then you're probably not, etc.

-Justin
Well, since you are talking about licenses, what about educational ones? I mean, always apreciated the proggies that has special licenses for schools.
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Old 07-17-2006, 03:05 PM   #9
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Yep, I am on-board with all that. Great product!
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Old 07-17-2006, 03:27 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marce
Well, since you are talking about licenses, what about educational ones? I mean, always apreciated the proggies that has special licenses for schools.
I'm sure we can work something out there..
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Old 07-17-2006, 04:37 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Evans
No technological steps - but do the wrong thing and Justin will send round two of his boys.
And would that be to no avail, things could get really scary. Rednroll might show up. Ho-ly shít!

Maybe we better pay the $200 rightaway even if we wouldn't know how to render and save Rock-a-Bye Baby in our ReaSynth arrangement...
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Old 07-17-2006, 04:45 PM   #12
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Im sure JimmyZ and his ultimate fighting guys would be up for some of that...write it off as a training expense
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Old 07-17-2006, 07:41 PM   #13
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I once worked with a rather scary Brazilian classical pianist who threatened Steinways with two of his boys if they didn't tune his piano right. Steinways were unsure if he was joking or not, but they always sent their top piano technician after that, just to be sure...
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Old 07-18-2006, 02:16 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin
We will let you upgrade from the non-commercial license to a commercial license for the difference in price, as well. so if you go purchase the non-commercial version ,make some stuff, then end up making money on it, you can pay $160 or whatnot and be legit.
That's really good. Let's face it, many of us aspire to make that great hit record but have spent years plugging (pun not intended) away to no avail. This gives us the opportunity to become honest trackers should the great event happen. :-)


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Old 07-18-2006, 03:29 AM   #15
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And its still a steal!

Probably sick of me bringing this up, but last time I mixed in a big room, a 30,000$ + PT system sat next to my reaper system

idle

And at our tracking room a 20,000$ PT system sits next to our reaper tracking setup

to collect dust

When a piece of software does what you need, its priceless
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Old 07-18-2006, 03:41 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alex zonder
Maybe we better pay the $200 rightaway even if we wouldn't know how to render and save Rock-a-Bye Babya in our ReaSynth arrangement...



.
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Old 07-19-2006, 01:30 AM   #17
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$40 is a totally fair price for us home setups! That is right in the ball park of n-track, Power Tracks, and Mixcraft. All of these have their + and -, but for features Reaper has them beat IMHO (excepts for the Vocal harmonizer in PT from TC Helicon)

And I hate to say this, but Reaper is catching up to my beloved CEP 2.1.....as soon as the looping features get a little better I think I will need to do a serious project in Reaper..."Smurf Style"!
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Old 07-19-2006, 05:09 AM   #18
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Very nice price for such excellent software.
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Old 07-19-2006, 05:57 AM   #19
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Yes, I agree that Reaper is a very nice piece of software and price is reasonable but Justin, please tell us what diference (or limitations) will be in versions of Reaper that will be payed in future. And will it be some version that we can run without a paying ( sort of demo or free versions).

Could it be posible that in versions to come, we can use textures for making our themes for Reaper.

Will you make rewire possible 'till version 1.0.
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Old 07-19-2006, 07:26 AM   #20
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I'm really disappointed with the current pricing idea. I've been carefully observing reaper since first versions came out. When Justin announced estimated 20$ price, at some point I believed that this could be the beginning of revolution. I bet that with this price a lot of people would say no to steinberg cakewalk magix and other big companies and started to use reaper. Justin would give people great tool for making music for the price affordable to everyone (and I mean everyone, as there are other countries than usa) and he would probably become "the person that gave the tool to the people". With 200$ he is just standing in one line with everyone else in the industry. I am not saying that the price is too high. I just saw for a moment a big opportunity to make significant changes in the way people produce music. I'm sure it will happen soon, but unfortunately no that soon.
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Old 07-19-2006, 07:38 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winbe
that S/H is offered
what is "S/H"?
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Old 07-19-2006, 07:55 AM   #22
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S/H stands for Sample and Hold if I'm not mistaken. It allows you to do some neat effects such as changing a filter while the same note is being played. If you've ever played Metroid Prime 2, the ambient/techno music in it does a lot of that.
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Old 07-19-2006, 08:00 AM   #23
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yeah -> but read the first post in this thread. i don't think he's talking about sample&hold!?
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Old 07-19-2006, 09:07 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dandruff
yeah -> but read the first post in this thread. i don't think he's talking about sample&hold!?
Sonar Home Version, probably.

Quote:
I'm really disappointed with the current pricing idea. I've been carefully observing reaper since first versions came out. When Justin announced estimated 20$ price, at some point I believed that this could be the beginning of revolution. I bet that with this price a lot of people would say no to steinberg cakewalk magix and other big companies and started to use reaper. Justin would give people great tool for making music for the price affordable to everyone (and I mean everyone, as there are other countries than usa) and he would probably become "the person that gave the tool to the people". With 200$ he is just standing in one line with everyone else in the industry. I am not saying that the price is too high. I just saw for a moment a big opportunity to make significant changes in the way people produce music. I'm sure it will happen soon, but unfortunately no that soon.
I believe the best price for a software is the one that the developer feels is good. I have followed lots of freeware projects that went down because developer finally get tired to work&work without feel his effort is paid like it deserves.
I prefer to pay $40 and have a happy developer that will make his best with the proggie to put it on top (or $200 that is a good price if really you are making money with it) than pay $20 and unhappy&unproductive developer.
Really, if you want to make music without pay, or paying very little, you can, in Windows or in Linux. Krystal audio engine, Tracktion 1.6, old versions of cakewalk for midi, etc, or some audio distro of linux (they are great).
So, i believe is a fair price. If you live outside USA, it´s true, $40 or 200 can be much more effort, but not imposible.
The point is if reaper will worst the pitty to do or not that effort. Hope yes.
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Old 07-19-2006, 09:46 AM   #25
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agreed. 40$ is a pretty fair price!
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Old 07-19-2006, 10:08 AM   #26
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Marce, I completely agree with you. But you didn't get my point. I was hoping for revolution that reaper would certainly do with extremely low price.
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Old 07-19-2006, 10:35 AM   #27
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you thought it fits on a floppy-disc, so it must have the price of a floppy-disc?
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Old 07-19-2006, 11:17 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin
Should be something like $40 for noncommercial use and ~$200 for commercial use. Purchasing 1.0 will give you a license for all 1.x releases..

-Justin
I must say I totally am with this idea. Best of both world and I whish more software developping house would adopt the idea. Major thumb up!
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Old 07-19-2006, 12:08 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kriss
With 200$ he is just standing in one line with everyone else in the industry. I am not saying that the price is too high. I just saw for a moment a big opportunity to make significant changes in the way people produce music. I'm sure it will happen soon, but unfortunately no that soon.
I like the point of this post, and it is also how Justin seems to feel as well, but lets get some stuff straight

200 dollars is NOT what all the other stuff costs, it is much more than that. ANd because reaper allows you to do much, and faster than even the most expensive software out there its a steal and a half

But lets get back on track

Its 40 bucks for the majority

One factor that is PATHETIC that must be dealt with, is that without a HIGH pricetag, retards, Conservatory Kiddies and Full SNailers will not take reaper seriously

200 bucks isnt enough, more like 2000 or more

but hey, for a commercial liscence, reaper could easily pay its 200 dollars off in a day

and for hobbyist use, 40 bucks? While thats my monthly salary, Im sure many would be able to come up with it
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Old 07-19-2006, 12:17 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pipelineaudio
and for hobbyist use, 40 bucks? While thats my monthly salary
Is that before or after tax? If it's after tax, I see Arizona tax level is about the same as here [img]http://*************.net/shocked-smiley-9447.gif[/img] [img]http://*************.net/angry-smiley-166.gif[/img]
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Old 07-19-2006, 12:31 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kriss
With 200$ he is just standing in one line with everyone else in the industry.
Show me a list of the DAWS with a comparable feature set and no dongle that sell for $200.
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Old 07-19-2006, 12:47 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kriss
With 200$ he is just standing in one line with everyone else in the industry.
Mmmm, 'done a quick check...

Cubase: $799.00
Sonar: $799.00
FL XXL: $349.00
Ableton: $599.00
Logic: $1000.00
Samplitude: $1100.00

And that's if you're lucky enough to live in the US. For me the prices would most likely be double those. And then with Cubase, Logic or Sam, there's the freakish dongle to contend with, and in the case of Sonar, try to explain to your accountant that the $1200.00 (local CDN price)software license you just bought has a resale value of...zero, because it's not transfereable.

Need I remind you that none of those offer a choice of license, except for the occasional student license which apply to...nobody; so it cost the same wether you're a hobyist or a major production studio.

...of course there aslo is a few boutique bargain product, like Podium, EnergyXT etc...

But $200.00 would place it more like middle ground than inline with the major, and rather cheap if it's the major tool your commercial studio uses, not even taking into account that it would then be tax deductible.

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Old 07-19-2006, 01:43 PM   #33
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Quote:
Cubase: $799.00
Sonar: $799.00
FL XXL: $349.00
Ableton: $599.00
Logic: $1000.00
Samplitude: $1100.00
Only to have a fair comparison, remember that there exists other options that are full featured and much cheaper:

MultitrackStudio: Free $69 $119 according to what features you like. It´s really great and rock stable.
Tracktion2: $150 (? im not sure).
n-Track Studio: $49 or $75 according to bit resolution. Very handy and full featured, but in the v4 with stability problems

And probably some others i dont remember.

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Old 07-19-2006, 01:54 PM   #34
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Energy XT commercial license is 39 euros. Anyway, as I said, I am NOT saying that the price is too high. Why 200$ makes this just another audio software? With 20$ price tag I could even see warez users saying f and actually buying it. There is not much difference between 200$ and 799$. If you can afford for one then you can probably afford for the second. It's something more than "Show me a list of the DAWS with a comparable feature set and no dongle that sell for $200." I am talking about revolution vs. no-revolution. 20$ vs. 200$. I have big respect for Justin's work and his decisions. I am just disappointed because of no-revolution thing. Thank you for understanding pipeline.
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Old 07-19-2006, 02:00 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kriss
I am just disappointed because of no-revolution thing.
What other software company, in the world, offers a full, no cutdown, fully featured license to hobbyist for a whooping 500% saving? That is a revolution.
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Old 07-19-2006, 02:00 PM   #36
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the thing is, the warez people can pay the $40.. the $200 price is only for people using it for commercial use, and if you're profiting with your work, it's a reasonable expense.

The important part of all of it is, if you want to be a dick and not register and keep using it, NOTHING will stop you from doing it. In audio software, __THAT__ is revolutionary.
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Old 07-19-2006, 02:18 PM   #37
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To be a bit fairer, lets look at the apps I would aim reaper against

Fairlight Dream Factory: $99,950
PTHD3 Accel: $19,300
SADiE PCM-H64: $15,000
Pyramix Native: $700 <----smoking deal but some caveats
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Old 07-19-2006, 02:22 PM   #38
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Im really not worry about people that use riped software, or warez, or whatever is called. Even if you sell it like $10, one week later you will found a cracked version, serials, etc, turning around the web (like happens with lots of very cheap proggies out there). But, looking friends that use that kind of software, they like to use Cubase or Sonar cracked versions, because name&fame. The sentence that you need sell it as high price like $800 to be taken serious by some people is real, and there is nothing you can do with that. Well, maybe if you get that some famous guy make a hit and say "i made it with reaper" can help
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Old 07-19-2006, 02:57 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin

The important part of all of it is, if you want to be a dick and not register and keep using it, NOTHING will stop you from doing it. In audio software, __THAT__ is revolutionary.
Can't argue with that!
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Old 07-19-2006, 03:02 PM   #40
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I was hoping it would be a liiiiiittle less, but I can't say I'm disappointed.

TAKE MY MONEY!!!
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